Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: BenDragon on May 17, 2013, 02:58:40 pm
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Hey there,
Would it be possible to implement some sort of bitmap overlay image overlay which would allow users to overlay images over the terrain in outerra?
Googlemaps is a great resource for outerra for things like terrain and road mapping, but not all of the available data is available on their servers.
An example of what the other source data could be form, could be scanned maps which would come in picture formats ( .bmp, .jpg, .png etc.)
The feature that I had in mind was overlaying a picture over the terrain detailing the features of what the user desires.
For my purpose, I was thinking of overlaying pictures retrieved from http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html (http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html) over the terrain, and using the old maps to lay all of the railway lines in the UK from that time.
the reason I am not using google maps for this task is because:
- The railway network prior to the 1960s was built for steam trains and thus, in that period it would suit my goal which is being able to use multiple types of traction on the same network, no matter if it was steam, diesel or electric, single or dual cabbed.
Diesel and electrics aren't as restrictive as normal steam trains are as most have to be turned around since they can't run tender first as it would be dangerous, diesel and electric locomotives don't need to be turned around as they don't have tenders. - More opportunities for shunting - A lot of freight around the selected time was transported by train and thus, almost every station was equipped with a yard and its own shunting locomotive.
Google maps is inadequate for this purpose as Google map's image data only extends back as far as 1945 and that imagery is very sketchy as it does not cover everything, it's not until the 2000s that google fills in the gaps with newer data, which is far too late for what I had in mind.
With a railway in the 2000s, the railway network would be built for multiple units, units which do not need run around tracks which would normally give an opportunity for locomotives to run around their trains ready to head out of the terminal which restricts the railway to using only multiple units.
Since multiple units are in set rakes (Ie. they do not need to be 'shunted'), most of the yards are reduced to sidings which are used to store multiple units in for servicing which can be taken out onto the railway network 'as is' without having to sort through sidings full of coaches in order to sort out a proper train for a locomotive to use and haul for that journey.
I guess to create this sort of railway network in outerra using bitmap images, the images would need to be overlaid over the terrain.
Thank you for reading.
BenDragon
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I don't mean to bust your bubble man but if you were going to download bitmaps from the Google or anywhere else. You would have to deal with the legality copyright issues as Google earth images are copyrighted. I'm not sure about the other website you suggested to get the bitmaps from but I myself have looked into this because I was interested in doing something for X-Plane but wasn't able to due to legal copyright they had on there Bitmap images.
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I don't mean to bust your bubble man but if you were going to download bitmaps from the Google or anywhere else. You would have to deal with the legality copyright issues as Google earth images are copyrighted. I'm not sure about the other website you suggested to get the bitmaps from but I myself have looked into this because I was interested in doing something for X-Plane but wasn't able to due to legal copyright they had on there Bitmap images.
Yeah, with the site that I suggested, I would have to buy the maps.
the terms and conditions state: "Any reproduction, duplication, copying, sale or resale or exploitation for commercial purposes of any information held on or accessed via the web site, including without limitation the products is expressly prohibited. "
This means that I can't duplicate / redistribute the map and I have to use it for personal use, which would be used for creating a replica of the railways which are printed on the map. Technically I am not producing a duplicate of the map and only using it for personal use... But I guess it wouldn't do any harm to seek clarification from the website to see if I can distribute the railways which were created by using those maps.
I guess the point going by this example was to display why it was important to introduce the feature.
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Railways will be integral part of the engine just as the roads are, that means they are created from vector data. So a better idea for you would be to vectorize data from whatever source you can get access to (there may still be legal issues with that though), then it will be possible to import these data into OT later.
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Yes, railways are created from vector data as it was explained in another part of the forums.
I guess the problem is just that, creating vector data from the images in a format which outerra can understand.
Correct me if I am wrong but Outerra would require the vector data in longitude and latitude format compared to the standard programs that I have which would produce images on the X and Y axis.
I would assume that it would have to be in a special format, for example '.gpx' or similar, I assume this because OpenStreetMaps uses this format for most of their vector generation and you mentioned in another thread that it was possible to import data from OpenStreetmaps.
So, in order to produce '.gpx' formats, I'd need to find and download an image to vector converter in order to convert the map data to the usable data for import into outerra.
This would lead me to incline that I would have to download an additional program which would allow me to do what is mentioned above on the thread, which I would then import into outerra.
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Generally speaking, you would create and edit this data (i.e. 'GIS' data) in an external program (ie. QGIS is a great free open source GIS).
In your case, you would first rectify your old map to existing data within the GIS by matching points from the map to current features- This will mean that any lines you add representing old railway lines etc will be in geographic coordinates rather than image coordinates and can be imported into Outterra to sit in the correct location.
Yes it's an extra piece of software, but if you have a decent amount of railways to add, I'm sure it will be faster digitising it in a GIS program over doing within Outerra. Since Outerra is still alpha, it will also allow for a re-import in the future if the data-formatting for vector lines change.
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In saying that, I think it would be useful to add the ability to add geo-referenced images (i.e. aerial photography) so that Outerra can be used as 3D GIS visualisation tool! They'd look great with the terrain shadowing and large-scale detail that the engine provides (I've used FSX for similar purposes)
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Generally speaking, you would create and edit this data (i.e. 'GIS' data) in an external program (ie. QGIS is a great free open source GIS).
In your case, you would first rectify your old map to existing data within the GIS by matching points from the map to current features- This will mean that any lines you add representing old railway lines etc will be in geographic coordinates rather than image coordinates and can be imported into Outterra to sit in the correct location.
Yes it's an extra piece of software, but if you have a decent amount of railways to add, I'm sure it will be faster digitising it in a GIS program over doing within Outerra. Since Outerra is still alpha, it will also allow for a re-import in the future if the data-formatting for vector lines change.
Thank you for giving me the 'QGIS' reference, it seems to fit my purpose exactly, thank you for giving me a link to this program, I will ask http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html (http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html) that when I buy the maps, that it's okay to use them for this purpose later on in the development of outerra (my computer has great difficulties at the moment supporting outerra at the moment due to hardware issues, which wouldn't give much opportunity for this feature if I wanted to use it now).