Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: Sfantu on January 24, 2011, 04:30:54 pm
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Ok if i use Outerra , can i make like a MMO space sim .... with infinite space, with lots of galactic wars , Solar systems at the end of times , Worm holes , nebulas , black holes , stars dwarfs/giants ,planetary wars , and more ... will i be able to do this in Outerra ?
Because i am trying to find a really good Game Engine and it seams this one it looks perfect for what i have in mind :D
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No, you can't. We divided the fractal mathematical space between us and Infinity (http://www.infinity-universe.com/) so that they can have an infinite space and we will keep the infinite planetary detail. So you can't have both infinities even if you are a famous and skilled MMO maker ;)
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ok you made me fell really sad right now ...
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I think you could manage with the 2.2 billion miles from earth. If you need more space you can just lower the fractal precision by half and go another 2.2 billion. At least that's how I remember it working. If Cameni struck some sort of deal with the infinity people he hasn't mentioned the details.
BTW. At the speed of light it will take you 197 minutes to reach the 2.2 billion mile distance from the earth. Assuming that is still the number.
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Um, you know, I was mostly kidding, I thought it would be clear :)
But I can explain.
First, you can have infinite space, and it has nothing to do with the range of floating point coordinates. Even now we are using local reference frames because there is not enough precision in 32b float to cover whole planet while keeping the detail. We will be using different reference frames for stars and galaxies etc and can get infinite space just as well as Infinity.
So what did I mean with the frivolous reply? There's infinite detail both up and down, and one can focus only on a finite range of detail features within to manage it all in a reasonable time. Also, even if it is procedural, if you do not handle each level of detail specifically and with attention, you'll get a vast procedural boredom.
It fascinates me that people want infinite space and galaxies and planets, and they have absolutely no idea how big that space is. Heck, I can't find the Tatra truck on the plain after rising up a bit and turning around, when focusing on that level of detail. When I extrapolate it to the level of detail in space, I'm in awe. I mean, why do people want space that is mostly empty - I don't get it. I don't get Infinity either, for that matter.
So the answer is that we don't care for doing the space level of detail in our universe, not now, anyway, when there's so much unused space on planet and so much potential (and it's a much higher potential than the star warsy thingy), and so much work. Later, maybe. We can.
Not mentioning the fact that anyone wanting to do a MMO these days, with so many failed MMO attempts around, ought better be a multimillion $$$ backed company with expertise and an excellent plan, or a mad guy wanting to spend 10 years developing a community driven project. I didn't find any indication of either thing in the post, though I wouldn't subscribe to the latter for the aforementioned reasons.
On the contrary, I got this feeling from the post that we should be flattered to be able to serve as an engine for this unique fascinating idea. When do people realize that ideas are cheap, execution is hard (http://quietbabylon.com/2008/ideas-are-cheap-implementation-is-costly/)? Probably never, with all the fresh blood coming in continually :rolleyes:
In the case I was mistaken, a few words of advice:
* Never start your first post mentioning a MMO. Better still, you should probably never mention that you want to make a MMO, to be safe with seasoned developers that are aware of the amount of work and risks.
* Tell the details. Who are you, how do you want to do it, when do you expect the results. If you are the mad developer willing to work those years on the game, you don't need to ask if Outerra is usable now, but rather if it will be usable in 3 or 5 years, while you implement basic game logic and model the first iteration of objects etc.
If you are the $$$ company you already know better than contacting us via public forum :)
*edit* swapped the sloperama link (http://www.sloperama.com/advice/idea.htm) for a better one
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First, you can have infinite space, and it has nothing to do with the range of floating point coordinates. Even now we are using local reference frames because there is not enough precision in 32b float to cover whole planet while keeping the detail. We will be using different reference frames for stars and galaxies etc and can get infinite space just as well as Infinity.
So what did I mean with the frivolous reply? There's infinite detail both up and down, and one can focus only on a finite range of detail features within to manage it all in a reasonable time. Also, even if it is procedural, if you do not handle each level of detail specifically and with attention, you'll get a vast procedural boredom.
It fascinates me that people want infinite space and galaxies and planets, and they have absolutely no idea how big that space is. Heck, I can't find the Tatra truck on the plain after rising up a bit and turning around, when focusing on that level of detail. When I extrapolate it to the level of detail in space, I'm in awe. I mean, why do people want space that is mostly empty - I don't get it. I don't get Infinity either, for that matter.
So the answer is that we don't care for doing the space level of detail in our universe, not now, anyway, when there's so much unused space on planet and so much potential (and it's a much higher potential than the star warsy thingy), and so much work. Later, maybe. We can.
I think it is cool to know that it is theoretically possible to make infinite space with this engine.
Opens up even more possibilities. I understand your engine is not finished yet,
but I was thinking that if a game studio would license your engine in the future,
could they make, say, infinite space on their own, or would you, as the developer, have to modify the engine first ?
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If a game studio would license your engine in the future, could they make, say, infinite space on their own, or would you, as the developer, have to modify the engine first ?
In theory they could use our engine to render the planets while they take care of space. It would not be neat, but it could work after this kind of extensibility is supported in the engine. So the answer is we would have to extend the engine so that it supports this mode (it has to control the resources for the taxing planet rendering), but then they will be able to implement the space thing mostly by themselves.
Our goal is to get our closest neighbors - Moon and Mars first, and then to implement support for artificial planets so one could eventually spread outwards. But the first two bodies I'd like to see reachable in our game eventually.
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Thanks for the nice article cameni.
i read a lot of "i want to make teh next Wow2-Mmorpg lol! :D" - threads. Nobody has to explain that they all failed epically. Today these kind of threads are entertaining me, because kids who are fooling around are always funny (but sometimes also annoying >_>)
Then they want to start with programming wow2 and they will wonder why its so hard to show just a window via c++. ^^
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Ok , thank you , that was all i wanted to know , i didn't said anything , that i want to make a mmo , i was just curious :)
Anyway i read everything that i could find about Outerra, and i like it a lot.
Keep up the good work .
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Talking about space sims (and Infinity in particular); there has been some pretty big things going on on that project. I guess many here are following their new as well as Outerra's, but for those who have missed it:
http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=26
Also I'm sorry for hijacking this thread, my reasoning was that it was a pretty minor comment related to what seemed to be of interest to the OP.
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Well .. interesting :)
Left me wondering about their business strategy. I thought Infinity had a large fan base and could go by releasing the game in the indie-alpha way. But I also understand it must have been hard for Flavien to work on the game with all those fans behind his back and with limited resources.
Hmm ..
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As i know he had/have the option for selling his engine to intel? This will never happens, i know and hope so. But time cannot be the point for founding a company. I think he wants to be a big player in this sector. There is nothing compareable at the moment on the market. So this step is very smart. I would bet that he would earn billions of dollars with releasing his pre alpha game. Probably you saw the last video from april '10. Even for this state of game i would pay bestsellerprices.
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Yea but he also seems to be a perfectionist and I got the feeling he'd hardly release anything unfinished. In a way, making an engine is simpler than making a game from this point of view - you are making it for developers and it doesn't have to be end-user friendly in itself, and you don't have to make heaps of content for it etc.
I think his new partner came with contacts on game industry and investors, and he simply took the opportunity so that he can eventually work on the project full time, with a team. It will allow him to mature his brainchild and to see it being used somewhere, although I bet he still sees it only as means to get the game done :)
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I've read linked article and releasing public toolset seems interesting, even if it's non-commercial license only. I guess it follows the trend started by Unity 3d and UDK.
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I haven't visited Infinity in awhile. I think their new direction will help ... I know a lot of people who visited the website were frustrated by the lack of public updates and/or the slow development time. But I think Cam's right on the money here: this partnership was a means to an end. I love the concept of his game, but creating that many stars/planets just seems like a waste of space, ultimately. it's going to be hard enough being able to explore every corner of Outerra ... but exploring an entire galaxy???
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it's going to be hard enough being able to explore every corner of Outerra ... but exploring an entire galaxy???
Whats funny is the galaxy is considered a bit small to some of them.
You should read some of the threads on renewable resources. They are complaining about how resources on each planet should be able to regenerate because they don't want to run out. :lol: