Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Off Topic => Topic started by: cameni on May 13, 2012, 08:11:29 am

Title: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 13, 2012, 08:11:29 am
http://proland.inrialpes.fr/download.html (http://proland.inrialpes.fr/download.html)
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: pico on May 13, 2012, 09:38:32 am
Really cool. Thank for the Link.  :)
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: pico on May 13, 2012, 10:06:53 am
...but no simple fly over controls like the Ufo Thing in Outerra. Or i haven´t found it by now.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 14, 2012, 05:04:08 am
By the Way, is OT's globe model a sphere ? Earth not being a perfect sphere, it is instead an ellipsoid or a spheroid... 
Of course for games, a sphere model is good enough, but for other applications, a more accurate Earth (WGS 84?) is needed.
Please can you confirm this?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 14, 2012, 06:01:22 am
It's a sphere, but updating the geometry generator to ellipsoid is easy. Won't bother with it until something really needs it though.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 14, 2012, 07:21:47 am
Thank you for the answer Cameni, so it is an exact sphere,
but yes I think that changing the geometry to any " potatoid " body model will be very easy for you  :D
nice to see that your approach is very generic and that your engine is very expandable !
so a lot of very interesting possibilities
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: XZS on May 14, 2012, 09:49:44 am
Cameni, are you going to use some parts of it, since it is now Open Source ?
If yes, then the ocean is going to look amazing !
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 14, 2012, 10:28:21 am
These French   ;) who put such things free, arghhh....      ( I am french and crazy too )

Cameni, please hide this thread, LOL
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: XZS on May 14, 2012, 10:31:09 am
These French   ;) who put such things free, arghhh....      ( I am french and crazy too )

Gna gna gna :)
Ok, Open Source doesn't mean it's free, but you can use/edit it for your own project, nope?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 14, 2012, 10:33:07 am
Yes I agree that free is not the right word, ok for Open
(you're French too LOL), I was just joking about my brilliant compatriots who are so Opened.

Non je veux dire, tu as vu ce super travail et ces résultats des types de l'Inria !
c'est sympa l'Open Source, mais à moment il faudrait aussi être un peu Business oriented... cela aiderait les Finances de l'Europe ou du Pays non ??? à +
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 15, 2012, 04:59:56 am
I still need to finish their datas download to see their demos
but there are very interesting concepts in there. I've just read their approach on clouds illumination & shading and it is  strong :-X
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 15, 2012, 06:41:28 am
for your info, few links about Eric Bruneton's Rama 3D anim (E. Bruneton belongs to the proland's devt/research team)
as long as I understand he finished this in 2006 or 2007.
It's a 3D animation (non Real-Time of course) of a spacecraft freely inspired from the book "Rendez-vous with Rama" from Arthur C. Clarke.
 
Rama - HQ version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBIQCm54dfY#ws)

even more interesting is his explanations "Making Of" on how he created his world

Rama - making of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKM2nDZ4rM4#ws)
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: Foxiol on May 16, 2012, 12:57:02 am
Thanks Cameni. I was looking at the water rendering samples and mixed with yours could be great.

I like the waves in Outerra but still the water itself could look more realistic without loosing the waves at the coast. (if possible)

I always see the water looking pretty realistic in Cryengine or in those samples from Proland but looking at the coast, it looks like "a lake coast" (without proper waves as it should be and not as you have done properly with your model in Outerra despite the general looks)

Is it possibly to make this kind of "mix"? And a future inclusion in Outerra?

(sorry for my English, it is not my native language)
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 16, 2012, 02:29:59 am
Well it's not straightforward either way. He used a technique that's easier to implement without visual bugs, but it complicates the possibility of coast waves. Mine was designed to be able to reflect underlying terrain topology, but needs more effort to get rid of visual glitches. Also, his lighting is more complex than mine. But I think once I put more effort into solving the issues, it can get to that level as well.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: Foxiol on May 16, 2012, 12:07:41 pm
Very nice to read that. You know how to do things here and i think you are making a great job.
Looking forward to see some improvements perhaps in the future. I know you need to stay focus in other areas before getting in that thing or "details" like that. And of course fix issues require time and hard work. So keep it up!   
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: KelvinNZ on May 26, 2012, 10:28:53 pm
Well it's not straightforward either way. He used a technique that's easier to implement without visual bugs, but it complicates the possibility of coast waves. Mine was designed to be able to reflect underlying terrain topology, but needs more effort to get rid of visual glitches. Also, his lighting is more complex than mine. But I think once I put more effort into solving the issues, it can get to that level as well.

Cameni,

Any chance to use the terrain data used for Proland? Or is it unusable in Outerra?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 27, 2012, 02:58:08 am
Depends on its license. I don't think it has a better base resolution, but it may contain more fixes.

If it was worth it, and with permissible license, it could be imported.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: KelvinNZ on May 27, 2012, 03:18:51 am
Depends on its license. I don't think it has a better base resolution, but it may contain more fixes.

If it was worth it, and with permissible license, it could be imported.

Sounds like something to look at in due course?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 27, 2012, 03:31:14 am
Did you download it already? You could look up the license there and check if NZ is fixed.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: KelvinNZ on May 27, 2012, 04:25:17 am
Did you download it already? You could look up the license there and check if NZ is fixed.

Is it worth me downloading it? It is alot of data just to check licensing information. Would it be possible to use it in Outerra (if license permits) if it has the fixed terrain?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 27, 2012, 04:35:02 am
Not directly, it would have to be reprocessed. But I don't think he's magically got some source with better data that we could use, so if you haven't downloaded it already to see how it works, it's probably not worth for you. Also, licensing and sources will be probably listed on their site somewhere.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: KelvinNZ on May 27, 2012, 04:59:44 am
Did you download it already? You could look up the license there and check if NZ is fixed.

Is it worth me downloading it? It is alot of data just to check licensing information. Would it be possible to use it in Outerra (if license permits) if it has the fixed terrain?

I downloaded but it keeps crashing which I suspect is perhaps because i have 64bit windows. I did look on the website and saw the disclaimer:

      
PROCESSED SRTM DATA    
The data  distributed here  are in  ARC GRID,  ARC ASCII  and Geotiff format, in decimal degrees and datum WGS84.  They are derived from the USGS/NASA SRTM data.
CIAT  have  processed  this  data  to  provide  seamless  continuous  topography surfaces.  Areas with  regions of no  data in the  original SRTM data  have been
filled using interpolation methods described by Reuter et al. (2007).
 
DISTRIBUTION    
Users are  prohibited from  any commercial,  non-free resale,  or redistribution without explicit written permission from CIAT. Users should acknowledge CIAT  as the source used  in the creation  of any reports,  publications, new data  sets, derived products, or services resulting from the use of this data set. CIAT also request  reprints of  any publications  and notification  of any  redistributing efforts. For commercial  access to  the data,  send requests  to Andy Jarvis.
 
NO WARRANTY OR LIABILITY    
CIAT provides  these data  without any  warranty of  any kind whatsoever, either express or implied,  including warranties of  merchantability and fitness  for a particular purpose. CIAT shall not  be liable for incidental, consequential, or special damages arising out of the use of any data.
     
ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND CITATION    
   
We kindly ask  any users to  cite this data  in any published  material produced using this data,  and if possible  link web pages  to the CIAT-CSI  SRTM website (http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org (http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org)).

Citations should be made as follows: Jarvis A., H.I. Reuter, A.  Nelson, E. Guevara, 2008, Hole-filled  seamless SRTM data V4, International  Centre for Tropical  Agriculture (CIAT), available  from
http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org (http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org).
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: cameni on May 27, 2012, 06:44:08 am
CIAT-processed public SRTM data. May contain additional fixes in comparison to what we are using, but the data need permission and are not complete (missing data above 60° north).
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: KelvinNZ on May 27, 2012, 03:28:35 pm
CIAT-processed public SRTM data. May contain additional fixes in comparison to what we are using, but the data need permission and are not complete (missing data above 60° north).

Ah yes we have covered this before. Great project though. I'm sure your work will be excellent.
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: PytonPago on May 28, 2012, 01:13:21 am
These French   ;) who put such things free, arghhh....      ( I am french and crazy too )

Cameni, please hide this thread, LOL

Dont worry, there are still a lot of crazyes, that dream of an all-off open source future world of Venus Project where Outera will be an base for future construction and planing and an enormous real-time earth sim./map ! : P So be good to us or we find the patent mastersafe and burn the papers like paper money at banks ! : P : P
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: foxfiles on May 29, 2012, 03:26:50 am
Dont worry, there are still a lot of crazyes, that dream of an all-off open source future world of Venus Project where Outera will be an base for future construction and planing and an enormous real-time earth sim./map ! : P So be good to us or we find the patent mastersafe and burn the papers like paper money at banks ! : P : P

I am not sure to understand very well what you mean, but sure we want to keep on being crazy, and BTW I see that there are many crazy smart people from Slovakia here  ;D
No, to be more serious, I was just joking a bit about INRIA ( French National Institute for Research in Computer Science and Control ) people who are also doing crazy good works...
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: PytonPago on May 29, 2012, 04:55:55 am
[quote author=foxfiles link=topic=1027.msg12288#msg12288
I am not sure to understand very well what you mean, but sure we want to keep on being crazy, and BTW I see that there are many crazy smart people from Slovakia here  ;D
No, to be more serious, I was just joking a bit about INRIA ( French National Institute for Research in Computer Science and Control ) people who are also doing crazy good works...
[/quote]

Well, in a world of pre-giwen set of norms of living and behaving ... every inovation is crazyness.  ;D  Its not bad, nor damaging. It should be actually be taken as a standard in the world of hi- and future- technology and knowledge !  ;)
The Venus project is an attempt to start an alternative way of organize our kind. And the Outerra-talk part is my own future-fantasy of global-scale urban-projection in real time ... a little too complex doe. Just take it as standard crazy stuff. : B
P.S.: Would like to hawe our research institute take some fancy stuff to work on too ...
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: DarkDXZ on June 08, 2012, 02:46:14 pm
I'm either too patriotic or stupid, but at first I REALLY thought it had something to do with Poland.

I should:
a) stop thinking about my country too much
b) stop thinking about my country being so close to Slovakia
c) stop drinking so much tea

Since my knowledge about this subject is equal to perfect zero, I don't know what to say, but I suppose it's a great news for you guys that know what's going on, right?
Title: Re: Proland has been released in Open Source
Post by: Black Phoenix on June 08, 2012, 03:08:39 pm
I've tried this engine. It probably works, it even starts up on my videocard (Radeon HD3800), but has some issues with tile cache system (for some reason it's inadequately slow). I think my videocard is not supposed to run this thing.

I'm poking around Proland, but I still have Outerra in mind (it seemed to work adequately well). If it works I might use this to render terrain from space without actual window (I've got a use for simply drawing it to a texture).