Outerra forum

Anteworld - Outerra Game => Tech demo, support, updates => Topic started by: cameni on July 07, 2012, 02:00:41 pm

Title: (old) 0.7.12 version branch
Post by: cameni on July 07, 2012, 02:00:41 pm
Preliminary development version for testing. Main changes since the 0.7.11.3100 version:

This version has to be installed manually, as it doesn't yet support everything that was in the last "stable" version. The purpose of this release is to get some feedback on how it works on various systems, to be able to catch problems early.

Please install it to a new path, and it's also preferable to use a different data path for it. It can use your existing configuration files, but it will modify them and make incompatible with the previous version, if they share the same data folder.

Download links:
Anteworld-0.7.12.3391 (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2spgr2B2dvNdHdhempwR3Bfanc) (MyDrive)

Old object placement data have been fixed, but since patches update only the program files, you have to download and unpack the cache.zip file into your data folder manually if you want to get some of the buildings back and to get rid of the error messages. This version will be soon followed by a full update that merges the dev branch with the main one, that will update the data files as well.

Known issues:

Please report other issues you encounter with this version.

Changelog:

Version 0.7.12.3431 (18 Dec 2012)


Version 0.7.12.3425 (14 Dec 2012)


Version 0.7.12.3390 (12 Nov 2012)


Version 0.7.12.3377 (3 Nov 2012)


0.7.12.3352 (12 Oct 2012)


0.7.12.3348 (12 Oct 2012)


0.7.12.3333 (7 Oct 2012)

Updated wiki documentation about the importer (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac/index.fcgi/wiki/Importer) and aircraft scripts (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac/index.fcgi/wiki/aircraft).

0.7.12.3280 (16 Sep 2012):

0.7.12.3275 (11 Sep 2012):

0.7.12.3230 (17 Aug 2012):

0.7.12.3222 (10 Aug 2012):

0.7.12.3217 (9 Aug 2012)

0.7.12.3212 (7 Aug 2012)

0.7.12.3202:

0.7.12.3191:

0.7.12.3189:

0.7.12.3180: geotagged screenshots and vehicle configuration (more at http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg13263#msg13263 (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg13263#msg13263))

0.7.12.3175

0.7.12.3172

0.7.12.3162
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 07, 2012, 02:58:15 pm
First of all i have to say thank you for giving us this test version. :D

I am not sure if it is just me or a general problem, but every time I try to spawn a helicopter my game crashes.
Could be that it's not yet converted as stated in your post.

What's positive, is the Cessna. I don't know if it was just me but in the stable version, the wheel and the Flaps controller didn't move. Here they do.

I also think that the loading time at the start of Anteworld has been improved.

Anyways, going to test a few stuff and will report any changes.

Attached you will find my crash report of the helicopter crash.

Good work!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 07, 2012, 03:09:38 pm
Sorry, I forgot to write that the Apache was not converted yet.

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 07, 2012, 03:26:41 pm
Okay that resolves the problem ;)

But i stumbled over a few sound bugs, for example if you get into  a truck, start the engine and get out, the sound will never stop no matter how far you get away. Also both truck types seem to refer to the same model since it's the same both times.
The Cessna has a sound bug too, which is also present in the stable version. if you are in the Cessna and turn down the mixture until the engine stops, the sound doesn't. So when you return the mixture to a viable value and press E the engine starts again overlaying a new sound instance.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 07, 2012, 03:44:21 pm
+20% on a 4850 must mean my 4890 will be +200%.. That is the math I want to believe in.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: giucam on July 07, 2012, 04:32:23 pm
First of all... wow! You rebuilded the himalayas roads :)

Anyway, ATI 4850 here. I can feel the more smoothiness of the engine, especially when driving into the truck with the inside camera. But i also found few bugs:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/tpwo24ix8josn27/screen_1341690369.jpg)
The windows have a chessboard-like pattern. It's visible only when looking towards the sun, or anyway when there is quite some light coming from ahead.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/rptxayoi0y84hxl/screen_1341690495.jpg)
The models are highly overexposed, as you can also see in the previous screenshot.

Also i experienced too the bug Chaoz mentioned with the engine sound not stopping, and i noticed that pressing 'w' makes the sound switch to the acceleration one and that the pitch of the sound varies depending on the direction you're moving. It seems a bit like the doppler effect, but reversed: it's higher when moving away and lower when moving towards the truck.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: jf31 on July 07, 2012, 06:58:02 pm
The grass LOD transitions are much more noticeable than before, giving a stronger pop-in effect, and at a certain distance there is a sort of half-pipe-shaped warping effect going on.

There appears to be much less "levels" of fog, which can be seen when gaining or losing altitude.  Very obvious change from one level to the next, and it looks like it lags behind the rest of the rendering, too (if I move quickly, the fog continues to change after I have stopped).

I have an ATI card, and also see the checkerboard effect on the windows at certain light angles, and agree that the models are a little over-bright.

Thanks for continuing to work hard on this engine!  I always look forward to the updates.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 07, 2012, 09:52:39 pm
I don't think it is the lighting effecting the Tatra.. I think it is the models properties making it look washed out in the new lighting.

Also I get an odd lighting shift with just a bit of turning like so.. (http://i.minus.com/iZangiYhpxx68.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ijZKC841nRPMh.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ibk3xhBj7QwkrV.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ieuN7MXSZGqpQ.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 08, 2012, 02:16:06 am
Object lighting needs some tuning, previously it was connected with terrain lighting via common reflectivity coefficients, but now it's detached and Angrypig is forever exercising with them.

The "fog levels" as you change altitude is a known bug I forgot to list, will be fixed.

Thanks for reporting the issues.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 08, 2012, 03:58:37 am
Outerra 2012-07-07 (Beta of the Beta) Headmovement in vehicles and new rendering pipeline. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1hLC0taflY#)

Some footage of the lighting popping issue
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: angrypig on July 08, 2012, 05:52:19 am
this issue comes from unfinished shadows... try to use 25m shadowmap distance 8 samples and 4096 shadowmap size... this should gives you shadows in short range and remove that issue...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: lookastdu on July 08, 2012, 08:37:09 am
Hello. Radeon 3870 problems are returning again. :P

Texture res 240p:
(http://i.minus.com/jbwzVH0qtIXMKM.png) (http://minus.com/lbwzVH0qtIXMKM)
Texture res 360p:
(http://i.minus.com/jzjAFnDrsTjhD.png) (http://minus.com/lzjAFnDrsTjhD)
Texture res 480p:
(http://i.minus.com/jb25ZvWlBIodJ7.png) (http://minus.com/lb25ZvWlBIodJ7)
Texture res 720p:
(http://i.minus.com/jbpSD8FTNDB4tr.png) (http://minus.com/lbpSD8FTNDB4tr)

Currently I have Catalyst 12.3, I will try Catalyst 12.4b. There's also 12.6 beta, but I hope I will not have to install it.

Edit: Ok, I have installed 12.4b and... issue still exists... damn. :/

Edit2: It seems for me that these black squares are showing up on tiles' edges. When I teleported to another part of world (from Hawaii to somewhere in Himalayas) the textures don't want to update (another bug?), they are low-res. But I can see much fewer black squares, because tiles are big.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 08, 2012, 10:43:06 am
The black points seem to be screen aligned. Btw why there's the log window shown? Probably there was an error reported, please attach your eng.log here.
You could also set debug_mode=true in eng.cfg and run it with that to see if there are more OpenGL errors reported.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 08, 2012, 12:08:09 pm
Hrm.. Happened last night and confirmed today. When i enter a vehicle.. Drive it around and exit it. I am teleported to the point where I entered it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 08, 2012, 12:11:41 pm
Noticed that too
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: lookastdu on July 08, 2012, 01:58:11 pm
The black points seem to be screen aligned. Btw why there's the log window shown? Probably there was an error reported, please attach your eng.log here.
You could also set debug_mode=true in eng.cfg and run it with that to see if there are more OpenGL errors reported.

I don't know why there's the log window shown. It has showed up only at first run after update (I was somewhere, but I don't know where exactly... I used my saved places to teleport) None of next runs has showed log.


I have turned on debug mode and... game generated hundreds of errors in log... no, not hundreds, even thousands of errors! Or maybe even tens of thousands of errors! Anyway IT'S OVER 9000! ;D Okay, in fact after loading map and running Outerra for about 30-40 seconds the eng.log file size was... 4 169KB. :P

The first 24 lines of errors are:
Code: [Select]
ERROR: (DRV): glUniform4fv has failed to set the uniform at location '0': the uniform's type, component size, or matrix dimensions are incompatible with the function variant (GL_INVALID_OPERATION)
The next thousands of lines of errors are:
Code: [Select]
ERROR: (DRV): glUniform4fv parameter <location> has specified an invalid value '118': not the location of an active uniform in the default uniform block (GL_INVALID_OPERATION)or
Code: [Select]
ERROR: (DRV): glUniform4fv parameter <location> has specified an invalid value '119': not the location of an active uniform in the default uniform block (GL_INVALID_OPERATION)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 08, 2012, 02:10:52 pm
Hmm, could you check what driver version is reported there in the eng.log? It would be best to cut everything after it starts to repeat, and PM me the log.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Foxiol on July 08, 2012, 05:02:57 pm
Not found any problems with my GTX560ti OC and driver version 296.10. (the latest driver gave me problems with all of my games because i am using it "under bottleneck" with an Athlon 64 X2 3.0ghz 6000+ and 4 gigs of ram at 667, Windows 7 64 bit)

Still i have a pretty damn good performance with MSAA X4 at 1080p resolution. Grass running at 50meters and all the stuff.

The only thing that i can say something negative is about the saturation in the truck and some minor stuff with the same thing. (lighting) Not sure if i´m having the same problem as Zeos with the lighting pop up thing. Took a look but it is working okay with its proper "errors". (again saturation and shadows)
So the regular and expected "errors" that can be fixed with some configurations.

The rest is working as usually for me.Still need to do some things and i´ll be updating this.

Thanks Cameni and Angrypig as usually.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: SpaceFlight on July 08, 2012, 06:55:49 pm
I have the sound issues Chaoz mentioned, the chess board pattern on the windshield Giucam posted, and the lighting popping Zeos talked about, as well.
Also, the application not ending after the windows have closed, happens, but the process can be killed by using the task manager.
Card: AMD 6950. Driver version Catalyst 12.6

Got a few more fps and I like where it is going with the improved lighting, shadows and the Cessna.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: lookastdu on July 08, 2012, 07:37:56 pm
Probably another bug: the "Forgot login/pwd" doesn't work in my case. When I move cursor over it the pointer changes into "hand", but clicking it anything happens.
Have anyone else tested it?
May it be connected with for example IE/other web browser settings?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 09, 2012, 04:58:59 am
Apparently a piece of code handling the "forgot login/pwd" wasn't included in this release for some reason, when merging the code for the release ...
Will be fixed in the next update.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: giucam on July 09, 2012, 11:41:53 am
New bug: whenever i click "Make default" in the locations window Outerra crashes. This (https://pastee.org/rhaa4) is the eng.log.

Btw, i was expecting this bug (http://outerra.blogspot.it/2012/04/road-interpolator.html) to have been gone, but i can still reproduce it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 09, 2012, 11:51:41 am
Any screens showing the bug?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: giucam on July 09, 2012, 12:15:52 pm
Yep:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/64fenzll3uv96m4/screen_1341850262.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/4t2vzj92ejiw959/screen_1341850297.jpg)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 09, 2012, 12:56:26 pm
Well it won't handle just any extremity. Too drastic change in elevation for one. Basically, the solution there will be that it won't allow you to create roads that go over these limits - it will highlight the segments that need to be corrected.

Besides, nothing would be able to climb that curve anyway :)

When doing serpentine curves, the turn must be on the same level, you need to get the lower road to the elevation where the turn will be, do the turn on that level, and then continue up from there. The default way point placement won't help you here, as it places the points on the ground level there, and so it leads many people to this design, but they'll soon find their mistake when trying to drive over it.

I apologize if you knew all that and just wanted to show the issue :)

Hmm, maybe the road builder could perform some adjustment here automatically. For example, when it finds out the way point was laid down on a slope and curving, it could adjust he elevation.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: giucam on July 09, 2012, 01:16:37 pm
Eh, but it does happen on plain roads too. I did it there only because i like mountains :)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/32f72vducbgt2h0/screen_1341853802.jpg)

Quote
Besides, nothing would be able to climb that curve anyway :)

Not a car, but a man or a donkey would be able to ;)   ...maybe...
But that makes me thing about staircases. It would be cool to be able to dig stairs in the rock walls :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 09, 2012, 01:50:50 pm
This one is still extreme :)

But you could try to subdivide the segments to give the road interpolator more space to breathe. If the road directions change too drastically, the interpolator can become unstable.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: giucam on July 09, 2012, 02:56:08 pm
Well ok, but i thought that blog post was talking about that, wasn't it?
Btw, it happened to me some times when recreating real life roads. They sure can be adjusted by hand but i think that especially if you want to import them from OSM a real fix is needed.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 09, 2012, 03:28:52 pm
The road interpolator was much more sensitive in the versions before that blog post. Even in moderate turns it started to lose precision, first on the markings and then the shape. It was impossible to create sharp turns on hill slopes.
The enhanced interpolator still has some limits before it starts to lose precision, but these are becoming mathematical limits - it's hard to define width of the road around a spline that folds.

Import from OSM will simply need to subdivide sharper turns more, using some heuristics. Probably the same heuristics we use when creating roads manually - it tells us that sharper turns need more attention.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: lookastdu on July 09, 2012, 05:06:52 pm
Sorry for offtop, but...
Besides, nothing would be able to climb that curve anyway :)
(http://i.minus.com/jb0z3ZoCKdJ9gN.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb0z3ZoCKdJ9gN)
Meet Skyrim horses! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7CInjswYg#ws) :D
I hope Bethesda haven't fixed it. :P

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: XZS on July 09, 2012, 05:52:28 pm
Haven't tested deeply this release, but so far :
- When I spawn a plane/truck then leave it, I can still hear the sound of the motor when I move far from it (no fade out as it used to do before).
- I can't spawn the combat helico (Outerra crashes and quits).

"eng.log" in attachment (zipped, as it is too big to be posted here unzipped).
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3172
Post by: cameni on July 10, 2012, 12:50:29 pm
New patch is out (0.7.12.3172)

Changes:

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 10, 2012, 01:46:56 pm
Okay first of all the good stuff :D

The sound thing is fixed and the lighting on the exterior seems to be better, BUT I have experienced new issues or issues which weren't fixed.

The chess structure on glass is still there if you are in opposite direction to the sun and in the Cessna you can experience funny things while not facing the sun:
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9322/screen1341939770.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/screen1341939770.png/)

This is while having the engine turned off:
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1042/screen1341939981.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/screen1341939981.png/)

this is while having the sun in your back and making the wings shadow the cockpit:
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6637/screen1341940732.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/screen1341940732.png/)

EDIT:forgot the pic for the chess structure...strangely only in the truck:
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4908/screen1341940908.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/screen1341940908.png/)


In the stable version of the game all these things don't happen. Also i would like to get my attitude indicator back for the green HUD.

Plus I discovered that you can't enter any vehicles after you left them. Please change that.

Other than that, Good work ;)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 10, 2012, 01:57:17 pm
So far everything's for Angrypig, good :D
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: XZS on July 10, 2012, 02:00:16 pm
Still can't spawn the heli combat (Outerra is still crashing).
Beside, since I've installed the beta, I've lost all my saved locations... Well, no big deal but I thought it would be keept.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 10, 2012, 02:01:44 pm
well it did say in the install instructions to take a new path for the test Anteworld...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: XZS on July 10, 2012, 02:02:29 pm
well, my bad :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 10, 2012, 02:34:45 pm
It preserves the locations, you must have used a different location for the data previously. There is a bug in the installer that doesn't keep the previous data path (doesn't suggest it to  you when installing), defaulting to home/outerra.

Just find where you had your data and edit data.cfg in your new install dir to point to it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: hhrhhr on July 10, 2012, 07:31:48 pm
added debug_keys option to eng.cfg
how to use this keys? i'm try "debug_keys=true", but nothing changed.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: XZS on July 10, 2012, 07:52:35 pm
Just find where you had your data and edit data.cfg in your new install dir to point to it.

I did that, it works like a charm now :) Thanks.

About Outerra crashing when I try to spawn a combat helico, could be related because I installed this testing version into the same data path than my original Outerra folder ?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 11, 2012, 02:29:17 am
An interesting new issue with my Fraps Recorder..

Outerra Fraps Freakout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0HOs7I3bWc#)

The Game still renders fine when I am recording. Just the Framerate indicator flashes on and off. Not sure if it is the new build or the new 12.6 beta drivers.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: Chaoz on July 11, 2012, 02:40:16 am
Has to be something with your computer or ati cause i have just tested it on my nvidia card and everything is fine...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: cameni on July 11, 2012, 02:42:30 am
added debug_keys option to eng.cfg
how to use this keys? i'm try "debug_keys=true", but nothing changed.
Was buggy in 3162, works in 3172. There's a handful of secret keys you have to discover :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: hhrhhr on July 11, 2012, 03:43:24 am
Was buggy in 3162, works in 3172.
yes, now it's work.
another requests.
1) please, change current normal maps to something more smoothed :)
this is from Cessna_EXT_norm.dds:
(http://i.minus.com/1342002281/F5h4ccSgm0-2nKkx8dkC8A/ibq9HxOpL8uKks.png)


from game:
(http://i.minus.com/kv7I0JgsjV4xc.jpg) (http://minus.com/lv7I0JgsjV4xc)


2) not all window can be closed by ESC.also not working ESC - F1(2..6), and if window open with mouse after press ESC it can't be closed by ESC.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3162
Post by: SpaceFlight on July 11, 2012, 04:27:45 am
Still can't spawn the heli combat (Outerra is still crashing).

I think the heli is not imported into the new version yet.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3172
Post by: Krutan on July 11, 2012, 01:21:17 pm
I stumbled upon a graphical bug with the latest version.

It's supposed to be a truck
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w5rdpt.jpg (http://i50.tinypic.com/2w5rdpt.jpg)

I'm using a GTX 680 with 304.79 beta driver. Could that be the problem?

Edit:
Seems to be working correctly now after I restarted the game :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3172
Post by: cameni on July 11, 2012, 01:30:18 pm
No, it's happening also on ATI cards, some kind of bug that occasionally appears when you first place an object. It fixes when you place a different object into the scene.

Cause unknown, Angrypig despairing :D
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3172
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 11, 2012, 02:38:24 pm
It's supposed to be a truck
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w5rdpt.jpg (http://i50.tinypic.com/2w5rdpt.jpg)

Trucks from the future are odd.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 13, 2012, 04:47:55 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3175
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 13, 2012, 05:52:29 pm
Thanks for fixing the chess issue! The reverse mode for trucks is cool too.
But there are still a few issues with the glass, every glass pane which is opposite to the sun gets very white like fog is clouding the glass.

The revers mode for the truck has some logical issues :D If you get into a truck with its engine off and you press reverse then no engine start sound will come. Also it would be cool to hear that distinct reverse sound like in normal trucks :D

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: SpaceFlight on July 13, 2012, 05:58:36 pm
Also it would be cool to hear that distinct reverse sound like in normal trucks :D

Truck Back Up Beeping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QM79i-lXQ#)  ;)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 13, 2012, 06:01:38 pm
Also it would be cool to hear that distinct reverse sound like in normal trucks :D

Truck Back Up Beeping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QM79i-lXQ#)  ;)

exactly like that :D
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Jagerbomber on July 13, 2012, 06:23:04 pm
  • fixed forgotten key problem with keyboard steering
Yay  :P
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 13, 2012, 10:44:36 pm
Observations.. An interesting implementation of reverse. I think maybe some sort of simple up-down shift buttons would be a better start so that you can use your gas key/pedal for forward and reverse. The torque seems too instant now. Like when in park and then moved to forward it seems to leap to speed instead of actually accelerating the mass of a tatra.

Also, I sort of miss the wheel cam but I think having the ability to move and save custom camera positions and FOV's would be better then pre-fixed cams anyway.

You mentioned Skid and block.. I get the skid bit which keeps you from ascending up insane hills but what exactly is block?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 13, 2012, 10:46:18 pm
Observations.. An interesting implementation of reverse. I think maybe some sort of simple up-down shift buttons would be a better start so that you can use your gas key/pedal for forward and reverse.

Also, I sort of miss the wheel cam but I think having the ability to move and save custom camera positions and FOV's would be better then pre-fixed cams anyway.

You mentioned Skid and block.. I get the skid bit which keeps you from ascending up insane hills but what exactly is block?

well i think it could appear when braking don't know haven't experienced it yet
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 13, 2012, 11:15:06 pm
OK.. More braking power is needed. WAY more braking power.

Also had a weird shadow glitch on some roads I threw down but alas my Fraps screenshot didn't capture it. Must be the damned 12.6 messing it up.

Something else has been bothering me.

Check out the grill lighting on old and new screenshots. They appear to be lit all the time. (Granted a different time of day but blahh.)

old http://i.minus.com/iWbcf4AWv7JQZ.png (http://i.minus.com/iWbcf4AWv7JQZ.png)

new http://i.minus.com/ibqImUqgmhqsrK.png (http://i.minus.com/ibqImUqgmhqsrK.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 14, 2012, 01:43:28 am
That's the shadows .. still don't work. You need to set a short shadowmap distance now (like 25m) but it doesn't work on ATI anyway. Angrypig has some problems with it. Also the diffuse light is not correct.

Wheels can block - means they can stop turning entirely and skid on the terrain. It's not so observable with current friction coefficient, but when I lowered it it behaved like trying to accelerate and brake on ice. Previous model didn't allow that - wheels were always turning as long as they touched ground.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 14, 2012, 01:54:25 am
OK. So that solve the mystery of what and why.

I like how every issue seems to currently be on angrypigs shoulders. I hope you aren't drinking margaritas while you make him redo the covers on his TPS reports.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 14, 2012, 02:04:24 am
Haha. No I don't like margharitas :)

Actually, he now works solely around the object rendering issues and the importer and the shadows. Everything else is mine, including the vehicle physics.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: jeffmorris on July 14, 2012, 05:06:56 pm
I tried the latest version of the program with my Logitech G27 wheel/pedal set. After setting up the wheel/pedal set, pressing on the gas pedal makes the truck go forward. Pressing on the brake pedal makes the truck stop but it won't run in reverse after pressing the brake pedal a second time. Pressing the "W" and "S" keys work. Is this a bug?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 14, 2012, 05:18:22 pm
With joysticks it doesn't work the same way as with the keyboard, you need to switch to reverse on the keyboard. I thought I would rather add a key/button to toggle it explicitly there (though I didn't yet).

I would actually like to hear how it should be handled. The default keyboard mode is for the masses and should be easy, but once someone has got a wheel I guess he would like it differently, not switching what pedals do. What you guys think?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 14, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
i think a toggle button is the best idea and the closest to reality
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: jeffmorris on July 14, 2012, 08:45:08 pm
Can I pretend that the "W" and "S" keys are the automatic transmission lever?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 14, 2012, 10:20:26 pm
There should be two systems like every race sim.  A set of (GEAR +) and (GEAR -) buttons and then Assignable (R)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6) with the option to have those be for HOLD or TOGGLE and then an option for (N) of you have toggle gears.

Also when shifting there should be a lockout so you cant downshift past first to reverse and to first from reverse while moving unless a clutch is involved.

I can get into fine detail on the matter. Don't think you are ready for it yet.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 15, 2012, 12:07:43 am
i think automatic transmission is sufficient for now, since this is not a race sim (yet)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 15, 2012, 12:34:26 am
Even with an automatic you still have to put it in reverse and use the gas pedal. You don't hold the brakes to go backward.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3179
Post by: cameni on July 17, 2012, 02:59:07 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3179: geotagged screenshots and vehicle configuration

F8 key now writes screen shots in JPG format with embedded GPS positional info. Many graphics viewers support reading this info and redirecting to web services that open online maps at given location.

The GPS info from these screen shots but also from other images that carry them (produced by cameras with GPS/compass or geotagged). To open Anteworld at the position marked within a geotagged JPG file, just pass it as a parameter to outerra.exe. Here's a sample image from a digital camera with GPS and compass: http://i.minus.com/jlU8Rd4gcjr3C.jpg (http://i.minus.com/jlU8Rd4gcjr3C.jpg)
Note that it wasn't yet sufficiently tested, if you encounter a file that contains positional info (check in properties) but is not recognized, please let me know. Some files do not contain the viewing direction, in that case it falls back to the default direction (north).

This feature will be later also used for saved positions as well, replacing the cam files.


Vehicle configuration - vehicle properties are dynamically updated from vehicle.cfg file (if found in data directory). It's possible to adjust several properties related to engine power, brakes, suspension and damping and friction. To test it, please save the attached file vehicle.cfg to your data directory. You can change the parameters when OT is running, it will reload the configuration when it detects the file has been changed.
Note - by changing some parameters too much you can destabilize the vehicle.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3179
Post by: XZS on July 17, 2012, 03:12:18 pm
GPS info [...] also from other images that carry them.

That's a clever idea you've got here, sir!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 17, 2012, 03:21:28 pm
Here's a video showing changing some of the vehicle parameters in run time:

Adjusting vehicle physics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIAny-L3n5k#ws)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 17, 2012, 04:10:39 pm
I noticed, that when you press shift to move faster, you are able to go through the ground...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 17, 2012, 04:35:27 pm
CTD if I set "wheel.stiffness               = 5", for example.

fun effect if "wheel.friction_slip" < 0 ;)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 17, 2012, 05:11:56 pm
3180 fixes ufo camera going through the ground.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 17, 2012, 05:32:42 pm
this foto (http://i.minus.com/1342571413/0w8ElNg66mtP3GVV7oqvIA/iyILe26RLs2s2.jpg) hasn't altitude info, but lat/lon/heading ok, Outerra do not load it.
another foto (http://i.minus.com/1342571413/tJTlysPrNBJiCvdvKofYFQ/iqbXAKminbQOl.jpg) (with altitude) loaded ok.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: jeffmorris on July 17, 2012, 09:07:20 pm
Version 0.7.12.3180 gets stuck at "Preloading Data" message on my computer running Windows 7 Home Edition 64-bit.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 17, 2012, 10:43:14 pm
Had a weird visual lag on the 8x8 first load. Like the visual of the vehicle was moving forward and backward 5-6 feet but not the actual truck. Stuttering at its fastest like 3 times a second.

Still happening after several loads and with the vehicle physics.cfg installed. Also you may have to explain some of the config options..(redux_coef  = 0.2 ??) And for a future release adding the ability to adjust the vehicle mass and position of mass would be awesome.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 18, 2012, 12:20:33 am
Version 0.7.12.3180 gets stuck at "Preloading Data" message on my computer running Windows 7 Home Edition 64-bit.
Please attach eng.log
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 18, 2012, 01:12:06 am
OK, I am not sure if it is just me but the ground collisions in my outerra all over the world are screwed. I'm climbing over mountains that aren't there and falling into the ground and through the earth completely. http://i.minus.com/iUbF8huOrE6eo.png (http://i.minus.com/iUbF8huOrE6eo.png)

My game seems to be crashing an awful lot too. Both program lockups and Driver crashes. Damn 4xxx series.

I did however come up with a very comfortable setup for the 8x8..

Code: [Select]
wheel = {
    suspension_rest_length  = 0.48
    max_suspension_travel   = 0.75
    stiffness               = 6.5
    damping_compression     = 0.10
    damping_relaxation      = 0.03
    friction_slip           = 0.57
}

max_engine_force        = 25000
max_braking_force       = 13750
redux_coef              = 0.2
max_kmh               = 100

I don't think the "max_kmh" modifier does anything. What you need is a wheel RPM max so that going down steep hills doesn't allow 300KPH!

Once the Engine RPM and Wheel RPM are connected via a transmission model we will be able to put the it in low gear and not worry about the extreme speed gains.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: angrypig on July 18, 2012, 06:03:54 am
we knew about this issue with collision but we don't know what's causing it...  >:(
I has nothing to do with vehicle physics parameters... it just happened sometimes...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: jeffmorris on July 18, 2012, 06:25:34 am
I found eng.log. I have GeForce GTX 560 TI card and version 304.48 of video driver.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 18, 2012, 08:47:14 am
we knew about this issue with collision but we don't know what's causing it...  >:(
I has nothing to do with vehicle physics parameters... it just happened sometimes...

It is moderately to insanely annoying. The visual skipping is just as bad and the issues it is giving me with Fraps are monumental.

Outerra - Still Failing with Fraps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg4LzbAG4e8#)

NOTE!! The skipping seen in this video is similar to what I see but in the video it is WAY more prevalent. The skipping is only the vehicle model when I am playing.

I can't find eng.log but I found assert.log. I have GeForce GTX 560 TI card and version 304.48 of video driver.

If you set your DATA directory differently from your ANTEWORLD directory it will be in the DATA one..
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: angrypig on July 18, 2012, 10:54:45 am
Zeos what catalyst version you have? I have AMD6850 in PC with catalyst 12.6 and my driver build version is 11740 and in your eng.log build number is 11653...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 18, 2012, 11:25:27 am
My 4890 is running 12.6 which was a special driver as the newest public 12.6 said only 5xxx, 6xxx and 7xxx. Cameni linked me the 12.6 I installed.

(http://i.imgur.com/SM9uz.png)

Should I just install the other version?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: giucam on July 18, 2012, 03:11:20 pm
I also see the problems Zeos reported, apart the white frames there are in the video. Ati 4850 with the exact same drivers as Zeos.

As a side note, i copied the cache folder of the stable version into the root of the testing one, but the roads i did don't show up. Is there some incompatibility?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 18, 2012, 03:41:37 pm
No, road formats haven't changed. It may be one of the random issues .. are you getting no roads after each start? Assuming the cache folder is in the correct data directory (check whether data.cfg in your install dir points to the expected data directory.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ChookWantan on July 18, 2012, 10:29:16 pm
That video is kinda unnerving hahah
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 19, 2012, 12:23:04 am
Lets test the screenshot debug stuff! 

This shouldn't be flat

(http://i.minus.com/ibkYXOexqsfvL4.jpg)

and this is insane ville.
(http://i.minus.com/i2q0va7fG2zNp.jpg)


We will also need to talk about latitudinal and longitudinal grip settings on tires.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 19, 2012, 01:01:40 am
This shouldn't be flat
this area really looks like having a missing data
(http://i.minus.com/kbnZSyON5M5iqR.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbnZSyON5M5iqR)
 
3180 fixes ufo camera going through the ground.
not everywhere :(
(http://i.minus.com/kfMAet72xegFw.jpg) (http://minus.com/lfMAet72xegFw)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 19, 2012, 02:01:34 am
3180 fixes ufo camera going through the ground.
not everywhere :(
(http://i.minus.com/kfMAet72xegFw.jpg) (http://minus.com/lfMAet72xegFw)
[/quote]

Saw the same think in northern Canada.. Some parts it was like there mountains were in two spots, one above the other below.

Wanted to get this in writing. The Camera anchor on the 8x8 is way too low. It needs to be up about five feet. When you use the camera to swing around and look you get mostly floor.

(http://i.minus.com/ibknlYBhRNrZPQ.png) (http://i.minus.com/ibknlYBhRNrZPQ)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 19, 2012, 02:41:12 am
3180 fixes ufo camera going through the ground.
not everywhere :(
(http://i.minus.com/kfMAet72xegFw.jpg) (http://minus.com/lfMAet72xegFw)
Clearly erroneously loaded terrain, that doesn't count :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: alexmdv on July 19, 2012, 12:14:30 pm
Have a crash (not responding) during loading process.
v3180

eng.log in attach
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 19, 2012, 12:42:56 pm
oo.. i have a same log and crash. once again, just run the simulator:
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 19, 2012, 02:30:43 pm
Did you install to a new folder, different from the previous install of 0.7.11 branch?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 19, 2012, 02:41:25 pm
yes, folders are different.
this error happen after posting screenshot from underground :)
how to "reset" settings without reinstall?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: alexmdv on July 19, 2012, 02:42:58 pm
Did you install to a new folder, different from the previous install of 0.7.11 branch?
First time I installed to a same folder, after crash I read first post and reinstall to a new folder. Result is not changed.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 19, 2012, 03:03:15 pm
how to "reset" settings without reinstall?
Delete the cfg files from the data directory. You could also try moving precomp.lst file away to see if it helps, but by doing that the error may appear at a later time.

Anyway it's odd, looks like a driver bug - the error appears on a shader that compiles fine, but the assembly compiler fails to load their own compiled output afterwards.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 19, 2012, 03:16:27 pm
Guys, have you updated your graphics drivers recently, or do you have the auto update of drivers in Nvidia control panel enabled?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: alexmdv on July 19, 2012, 03:29:12 pm
Guys, have you updated your graphics drivers recently, or do you have the auto update of drivers in Nvidia control panel enabled?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 19, 2012, 03:36:15 pm
I wanted to find out whether there was a driver update that would have caused this problem occurring out of nowhere, when it previously worked. But 301.42 was released in May ...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 20, 2012, 01:51:18 pm
I have 301.42 too.
Reinstalling and clearing cfgs did not help. If I rename the file "precomp.lst" then the simulator is run, other problems have not yet met. Also now I can't go to "underground" :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 20, 2012, 03:39:44 pm
Hmm looks like some testing shader slipped into the released version. Precomp.lst contains shaders to precompile during the startup, if the error doesn't appear in run time it means that the shader isn't actually used.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: alexmdv on July 20, 2012, 03:57:02 pm
If I rename the file "precomp.lst" then the simulator is run.
It works for me too. Thanks for temporary solution :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: hhrhhr on July 20, 2012, 04:19:14 pm
some testing shader slipped into the released version
may it somehow help. i'm try also rename AppData\Roaming\NVIDIA\GLCache, Outerra start and crash, there are only 2 files created in this folder:
\6d56ce88fcbb0718a0e49cf1767b8349\db10932c0f191a7b\709893af71fe1564.(bin|toc)
after rename precomp.lst these files are created too, but slightly larger.

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: alexmdv on July 22, 2012, 05:31:00 am
I tried to use new beta drivers v.304.79
Outerra starts with black window and stop responding. Login window doesn't appears.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 22, 2012, 05:44:58 am
Better and better ...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 22, 2012, 12:57:52 pm
Better and better ...

It is always darkest before the dawn.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on July 22, 2012, 12:59:52 pm
It is always darkest before the dawn.
If the earth stops rotating, hope you can find a way to move toward the sun.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Chaoz on July 22, 2012, 07:38:02 pm
The problem is definitely connected to the new Nvidia beta driver, both Anteworld versions don't work any more and exit with the same error :

ERROR: error linking the program sEFBE127F990877C0BA52EB922647F0A8C1CA1B52|sF667327894CF465173DAAE2AD9E3A0CDBA4615EC|s44CE61ED48CBC0EC7C7D1842AF12BAA2AEC32A6A

worked fine with the old driver...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2012, 02:08:39 am
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. But lately my LOD has been getting stuck and never updates until I restart outerra..

It looks like this
(http://i.minus.com/ieliFewmFbFgk.png)

And I have my setting like so except I usually run 720P
(http://i.minus.com/ibehBCLpLfJmNO.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: Sam on July 23, 2012, 04:47:36 am
I mean, it's a work in progress.  ;D  :P
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 23, 2012, 05:33:52 am
Please enable debug_keys in eng.cfg and make a screenshot with terrain mesh (n key) and with tile info shown (alt-5) when that happens. Look for places around that location that would be refined too much.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2012, 10:30:21 am
http://i.minus.com/i4JBhIXfQqjLR.jpg (http://i.minus.com/i4JBhIXfQqjLR.jpg) http://i.minus.com/ibxTaVGhRsijYf.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ibxTaVGhRsijYf.jpg) http://i.minus.com/ib1Bnb2R0eRPO7.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ib1Bnb2R0eRPO7.jpg)  It was loading fine right up until I approached the mountains. Then it stopped refining.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: giucam on July 23, 2012, 10:37:40 am
It happened to me too, though one time only. Maybe it's another 4800 series "feature" ;)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2012, 10:40:52 am
It happened to me too, though one time only. Maybe it's another 4800 series "feature" ;)

I kind of hope it is at this point. That way one upgrade fixes all my problems. Otherwise it is up to Cameni and the pig to debug for hours where they could be developing new things.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 23, 2012, 12:47:41 pm
Hmm please reset your terrain settings (or delete world.cfg). Seems as if the limiter settings were wrong. It may be something else as well, but lets check this first.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3180
Post by: JotBe on July 24, 2012, 02:07:23 pm
After installed new NVIDIA driver, version 0.7.11.3100 and version 0.7.12.3175 start well. :D
But version 0.7.12.3180 gets stuck in "Preloading Data".

Because I have a hybrid system on my notebook "eng.log" does not report the right graphics card. Therefore I have attached a "NVIDIA System Information" file, but sorry it's in german.

And two more files:
eng3162.log <- installed the test version anew and started successfully (-noupdate)
eng3180.log <- test version after update and error at start.


So have fun with these infos. ;)

JB

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 24, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
Please delete precomp.lst file from your 3180 installation, it should solve the problem.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3180
Post by: JotBe on July 24, 2012, 04:37:45 pm
Solved! :D -- Thanks!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: lookastdu on July 25, 2012, 05:21:16 pm
I have encountered that problem with loading more detailed terrain twice on build 3162.
I was on Oahu, then I teleported to Himalayas and terrain resolution was low...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 26, 2012, 12:12:55 pm
Hmm I wonder if the new version has a problem with boosting the tile cache. Normally it gets enlarged depending on your terrain quality and FOV settings, but the way the tiles are allocated changed in the unstable branch and this mechanism could have been affected. I'll check that. Can somebody confirm that resetting terrain settings (and restarting) doesn't help it?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 26, 2012, 01:30:00 pm
When running 32° fov and 600P terrain I had occasional instances of LOD fail. I upped it to 1080P and it happened a few times in a row but corrected after restart.

http://i.minus.com/iop855U3DlGFb.png (http://i.minus.com/iop855U3DlGFb.png)  http://i.minus.com/ib2ixJXjHCUL2l.png (http://i.minus.com/ib2ixJXjHCUL2l.png)

With 128° fov and 1080P I had no terrain load issues with any of the location saves.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 26, 2012, 01:33:44 pm
One issue is that this version requires restart (will be fixed) before the changes of terrain quality and FOV affect the tile cache size, so this may be what you have experienced.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 26, 2012, 02:45:25 pm
I should probably also mention that I have had both a tremendously long period without an app crash (~90minutes driving up a mountain from the shore) and today testing for the terrain load somewhere around 20 or so stopped responding crashes pretty consistently 30 seconds after login. This kept happening until I flew away from that position. Now the crashes are back to a random interval.

What I was looking out when crashes were constant.  http://i.minus.com/iMYVwCYwLoxD6.png (http://i.minus.com/iMYVwCYwLoxD6.png) http://i.minus.com/iwra4WMDWCTS1.png (http://i.minus.com/iwra4WMDWCTS1.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 26, 2012, 05:50:47 pm
Could we get the cache folder? Might check it on 4850 or pass it to AMD, now that it crashes so reliably :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 26, 2012, 08:30:19 pm
Here you go.  And an image taking you to that Russian test area http://i.minus.com/ibrbzM19JekROo.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ibrbzM19JekROo.jpg)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 28, 2012, 03:09:30 pm
The problem is definitely connected to the new Nvidia beta driver, both Anteworld versions don't work any more and exit with the same error :

ERROR: error linking the program sEFBE127F990877C0BA52EB922647F0A8C1CA1B52|sF667327894CF465173DAAE2AD9E3A0CDBA4615EC|s44CE61ED48CBC0EC7C7D1842AF12BAA2AEC32A6A

worked fine with the old driver...
That 304.79 driver is total mess. Seems that Nvidia is trying to revive that one miserable branch of drivers again >:(
I just hope they don't get the idea to WHQL it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: giucam on July 29, 2012, 11:50:50 am
I tried Zeos's cache data and image but my 4850 didn't crash.

Btw, I saw something interesting: i went up in the space and i spawned the cessna. Besides some lighting issues, the model flickered a lot. I then moved the outside camera to look top-down and i saw that the flicker was actually the plane moving back and forth from the right position to, i'd say, ~100 meters below.

Right position:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/6hlb5z6xcvj2m9e/screen_1343575940.jpg?dl=1)

Wrong position:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8bs9pp8o0gohwbw/screen_1343575942.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on July 29, 2012, 12:26:59 pm
That 304.79 driver is total mess. Seems that Nvidia is trying to revive that one miserable branch of drivers again >:(
I just hope they don't get the idea to WHQL it.
That's a shame, I've always had a good experience with Nvidia drivers, but I've only experienced the factory installed Nvidia drivers, 266.58, 296.35, 296.70, and 296.88.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3189
Post by: cameni on July 29, 2012, 03:12:41 pm
Back from travels, here's a new bug fix patch 0.7.12.3189:

Note that with NV beta drivers 304.79 the program now passes through the initialization phase, but the lighting seems to be severely broken and there may be also other bugs. Since the Nvidia developer forum had been hacked and shut down (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2191418/nvidia-developer-forum-passwords-hacked) shortly after I asked for renewal of  developer access there, we can't report these issues there now ...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3189
Post by: alexmdv on July 29, 2012, 03:30:19 pm
With driver v.301.42 WHQL works correctly.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: cameni on July 30, 2012, 03:22:30 pm
I tried Zeos's cache data and image but my 4850 didn't crash.
The same for me, I tried the cache and ran around for some time. Nothing happened with UFO; truck flickered wildly but otherwise no crash.

That makes me wonder - Zeos, can you check the loaded modules in your eng.log? Is Fraps listed there? Fraps and similar software hook into other apps and intercept messages, it could be that it interferes somehow even if not used. Or maybe there's another utility ...

Quote
Btw, I saw something interesting: i went up in the space and i spawned the cessna. Besides some lighting issues, the model flickered a lot. I then moved the outside camera to look top-down and i saw that the flicker was actually the plane moving back and forth from the right position to, i'd say, ~100 meters below.
Thanks for reporting, it ultimately helped to identify the cause of object flickering, appearing on all vehicles. It was fixed internally.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3175
Post by: giucam on July 30, 2012, 04:16:12 pm
The same for me, I tried the cache and ran around for some time. Nothing happened with UFO; truck flickered wildly but otherwise no crash.

That makes me wonder - Zeos, can you check the loaded modules in your eng.log? Is Fraps listed there? Fraps and similar software hook into other apps and intercept messages, it could be that it interferes somehow even if not used. Or maybe there's another utility ...
Well, it didn't crash right away but it still did crash after a while, and i don't use fraps. (My plan was to drive the cessna from space to ground, but the crash caught me short after i took those screenshots  >:( :'()

Thanks for reporting, it ultimately helped to identify the cause of object flickering, appearing on all vehicles. It was fixed internally.
I'm glad i could help :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 02:14:59 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3191

Still waiting for Angrypig to finish the shadowing system so it can cover normal distances, If you want to see the shadows now you have to set the shadowmap distance to a low value like 25m.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 02:32:33 pm
crash after update. report is automaticaly sended with crashsender.exe.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 02:44:07 pm
There seems to be an issue with water rendering, your saved camera is somewhere close to the sea?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 02:47:26 pm
after the first crash I removed world.cfg, now there is standart position:
longitude-sun = 143.912231,
latitude-sun = -10.601093,
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 02:51:15 pm
No, the position is in campos/earth/default.cam. The one in the data directory is yours, you can delete it to get to the default position from the installation.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 02:55:39 pm
remove default.cam - all ok, thanks. old content of this file:
Code: [Select]
pos_x = 310334.352,
pos_y = 5954347.64,
pos_z = 2264971.32,
rot_x = .18094,
rot_y = .178425,
rot_z = .008648,
rot_w = .967135
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 02:59:12 pm
Patch 3192 should fix the water rendering, you can try it again with that position.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 03:07:01 pm
confirm:
(http://i.minus.com/kZQDLmb2hnBKY.jpg) (http://minus.com/lZQDLmb2hnBKY)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 03:43:37 pm
now i have something in water :) (0:28, for example)
bandicam 2012 07 31 23 37 34 481 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fclEWpk8V8#ws)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 03:57:48 pm
Hm I can't replicate it, I even jumped into your picture. What graphics card have you got?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 31, 2012, 04:06:18 pm
Bandicam works to capture it?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 04:15:31 pm
2cameni:
nvidia gtx 460. it has to do with the viewing angle. here are some screenshots with angles from 40 to 140: http://hhrhhr.minus.com/mYrcZww2A/1g (http://hhrhhr.minus.com/mYrcZww2A/1g)
at small angles do not have glitches.

2ZeosPantera:
Outerra in window mode, Bandicam work in "Rectangle on a screen".
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 04:22:23 pm
nvidia gtx 460. it has to do with the viewing angle. here are some screenshots with angles from 40 to 140: http://hhrhhr.minus.com/mYrcZww2A/1g (http://hhrhhr.minus.com/mYrcZww2A/1g)
at small angles do not have glitches.
That's odd. I have 460 plugged in now as well, and the bug's not there when using your screen to jump in. What's your driver version? I should put that info into the jpg meta data as well :)
I'm using 301.42, beta 304 are buggy. If it's not that, please send me also your cfg files.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 04:39:06 pm
i'm using 301.42 too.
all configs, last screenshot, precomp.lst and outerra_nvidia.nip (exported settings from NVIDIA Inspector for Outerra profile) is here (https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B5VCF_v6rzV0QXpyQ1RObzU4ZDA/edit).
i'm try reset Outerra's config and Nvidia's profile to their defaults, but this is not help.

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 04:48:03 pm
Seems that it's caused by the terrain quality of 240p. Why do you have set it so low on that card?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 04:56:04 pm
just play with it and forget to return to default position :)) now any value other than 240p makes a beautiful sea.

by the way, this setting by default should be set to 480p, but if you press the "revert to defaults", then it is 600p.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on July 31, 2012, 05:34:13 pm
In the unstable branch I've changed it to 600p, mainly because there's a very simple benchmark mode (outerra.exe -benchmark), that's in reality doing nothing but loading the internal defaults and setting the camera to the measurement point. We are using it to compare the performance between different versions, to see if there's any regression. Later there will be a more complex benchmark mode usable for comparing hardware performance.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: deathevor on July 31, 2012, 06:32:42 pm
Just noticed one thing:

New gras shadow work almost perfectly, but there is strange effect on it:
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6916/screen13437731971.th.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/screen13437731971.jpg/)

The grass also picks the shadows from models, it's hardly noticeable on static shot, but you can see it a bit above the truck cabin.

Here's another screenshot but with light side of cabin, so the effect is gone.
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4896/screen1343773203.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/screen1343773203.jpg/)

Also with new lighting the shadow quality decreased a lot, it just on my system?
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5034/screen1343773884.th.jpg) (http://img507.imageshack.us/i/screen1343773884.jpg/)
That's maximum I was able to get.
My settings are:

Shadow Res 8192x8192
Samples: 16
Kernel size: 1
Distance 1000
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on July 31, 2012, 06:42:45 pm
Distance 1000
as posted above:
 
If you want to see the shadows now you have to set the shadowmap distance to a low value like 25m.

in my case "Distance 1000" get very blurry shadows.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 01, 2012, 12:24:41 am
Not sure what F10 is suppose to do but it seems to detach the shadow from the model and moves it around with the camera..

(http://i.minus.com/ibp9rg8qsGkKma.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: deathevor on August 01, 2012, 06:44:01 am
Distance 1000
as posted above:
 
If you want to see the shadows now you have to set the shadowmap distance to a low value like 25m.

in my case "Distance 1000" get very blurry shadows.

Strange distance should only affect the generated shadow distance or I'm wrong?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on August 01, 2012, 06:55:22 am
New shadow system currently does not cover the distance effectively, with more pixels dedicated to near areas and less for the far ones. So if you want to get good detail close to camera, you need to set a shorter shadowmap distance. This is temporary until the old shadowmap distribution function works again.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: deathevor on August 01, 2012, 07:41:11 am
Thanks
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: lookastdu on August 01, 2012, 08:22:22 pm
I decided to make some more screenshots of my problem, maybe it will help you. ;) (They were done few days ago on 3189).

Some random shots:
(http://i.minus.com/jAEUOmDSQdDdB.jpg) (http://minus.com/lAEUOmDSQdDdB)
(http://i.minus.com/j6JGflpLud7wW.jpg) (http://minus.com/l6JGflpLud7wW)
(http://i.minus.com/jbxW3K6rVqADi1.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbxW3K6rVqADi1)
(http://i.minus.com/jbipKlLUoFRbpR.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbipKlLUoFRbpR)
(http://i.minus.com/jzOjyql5Icdan.jpg) (http://minus.com/lzOjyql5Icdan)
(http://i.minus.com/jPDLZFVgBName.jpg) (http://minus.com/lPDLZFVgBName)


Bug vs FOV angle:
FOV 60: (http://i.minus.com/jFRi3h07CJzLk.jpg) (http://minus.com/lFRi3h07CJzLk)
FOV 90: (http://i.minus.com/juyJw4Xdt9xZw.jpg) (http://minus.com/luyJw4Xdt9xZw)
FOV 120: (http://i.minus.com/jIzdQ6VRc3wb9.jpg) (http://minus.com/lIzdQ6VRc3wb9)


Also bug and low resolution terrain problem together:
(http://i.minus.com/j4hfsglm8ESQE.jpg) (http://minus.com/l4hfsglm8ESQE)
(http://i.minus.com/jbwyIQO2mdW3fI.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbwyIQO2mdW3fI)
(http://i.minus.com/j6nlI08P3jltP.jpg) (http://minus.com/l6nlI08P3jltP)
(http://i.minus.com/jb2vPUwYNnI3Zw.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb2vPUwYNnI3Zw)

Ok, enough. :P
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: hhrhhr on August 01, 2012, 08:41:38 pm
2lookastdu
you forgot to say what video card and driver version (and about the thumbnails) :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: lookastdu on August 02, 2012, 05:46:10 am
I have Radeon 3870 + Catalyst 12.4
I have forgotten, because it was 2 AM and I was tired :P but probably cameni may remembered what GPU I have, because I talked with him about this bug a little bit and it occurs probably at all Radeon 3xxx GPU family.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: [deleted] on August 02, 2012, 06:22:32 am
That's the craziest graphical bug I've ever seen  ;D
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: claydigger on August 02, 2012, 02:59:22 pm
I am not able to spawn any vehicles or place any roads or buildings without the program crashing and showing the error reporting tool.  I have an Radeon HD 7970M with the latest drivers.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on August 02, 2012, 03:38:50 pm
I am not able to spawn any vehicles or place any roads or buildings without the program crashing and showing the error reporting tool.  I have an Radeon HD 7970M with the latest drivers.
Always crashes inside the ATI OpenGL driver (atioglxx.dll) after a call to innocent glVertexAttribI3i function. It's a driver bug. Please report it to AMD via this form (http://www.amd.com/report).

I can't check the driver version in the log because it reports Intel graphics driver for some reason, even though it clearly uses ATI drivers later  ???
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: claydigger on August 02, 2012, 04:28:57 pm
Ok I have reported it.  I will let you know if I hear anything back.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3191
Post by: cameni on August 03, 2012, 04:12:03 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3202

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 03, 2012, 04:51:25 pm
Shadows are pretty.

Edit: Glass reflections are pretty.

(http://i.minus.com/ivwpvG801R7Nd.png)

Will the reflections eventually reflect object too? Like the 8x8 and building?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on August 03, 2012, 05:43:18 pm
Great work on the glass, riveting looks good for a computer texture.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 03, 2012, 05:52:21 pm
Will the reflections eventually reflect object too? Like the 8x8 and building?
Actually, these reflections do not even reflect the environment - just the sky and uniform part below horizon. But full reflections will be coming later too.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Majority on August 03, 2012, 06:47:12 pm
this version is not working on Nvidia GTX 580 with 304.79 driver
i only get a black screen!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Majority on August 03, 2012, 07:03:18 pm
I also get weird and crazy graphics like this:
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: lookastdu on August 03, 2012, 08:09:11 pm
Ok, I noticed something insteresting in bug that occurs on my GPU (Radeon 3870 + Catalyst 12.4).
So now "black squares*" become "black & sky color squares*" :P
(http://i.minus.com/jbkG3STLPodNrB.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbkG3STLPodNrB)
(http://i.minus.com/jn7Hjl5hjgeZu.jpg) (http://minus.com/ln7Hjl5hjgeZu)
(http://i.minus.com/js79j48sXS7tK.jpg) (http://minus.com/ls79j48sXS7tK)
(http://i.minus.com/jbvMB2GHTgkeYM.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbvMB2GHTgkeYM)
(http://i.minus.com/jbgghCYtjrmH1d.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbgghCYtjrmH1d)
Please notice that colored squares are in color of the lowest line of pixels above ocean. Also, look at 2nd or 3rd picture and compare squares near edge of picture and in the center of picture - they have a little bit other color, like horizon just above ocean.

* - yes, I noticed that there are also triangles and other forms, but squares and rectangles (built from squares) are most common ;)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 01:52:01 am
this version is not working on Nvidia GTX 580 with 304.79 driver
i only get a black screen!
It was said also elsewhere - don't use the Nvidia beta drivers 304.79, they are buggy.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 01:54:57 am
Ok, I noticed something insteresting in bug that occurs on my GPU (Radeon 3870 + Catalyst 12.4).
So now "black squares*" become "black & sky color squares*" :P
Hmm the colored ones would indeed point to a depth buffer issue, but where from the black ones come ...  ???
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: ddenn on August 04, 2012, 02:31:01 am
I don't have any such issues on my 460GTX (301.42), all seems to work fine. But I have an issue with reflection map on Cessna:

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1060/screen1344061065.th.jpg) (http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1060/screen1344061065.jpg)

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9995/screen1344061011.th.jpg) (http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9995/screen1344061011.jpg)

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5765/screen1344060987.th.jpg) (http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5765/screen1344060987.jpg)

P.s. BTW, those black squares look like hardware problem for me.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 04, 2012, 02:50:52 am
Shadows are pretty.
You lucky one!

Since the update, to me there are shadows everywhere! (like at a solar eclipse ;))

Here it is a scenery at noon on a unclouded summer day (shadowmap 10000m).
(notice the bright mountains in the background, which are shadowmap out-of-range.)
(http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/gtwptjil/Outerra_shadowmap_10000.jpg)

Shadowmap set to 0m the sun is back again on ground, but no shadows of course.
(the dark grass in the foreground is the leftover of that kind of solar eclipse ;))
(http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/eugw8ryq/Outerra_shadowmap_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 03:31:45 am
Could you try reverting to default settings (move eng.cfg and world.cfg away, to be regenerated)?
Also, Nvidia CoProcManager may be causing some issues, you could try uninstalling it to see if it helps.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: angrypig on August 04, 2012, 03:48:00 am
I don't have any such issues on my 460GTX (301.42), all seems to work fine. But I have an issue with reflection map on Cessna:

Those issues are caused by unfinished Cessna model probably a few normals are wrong...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: PublicEnemy on August 04, 2012, 04:09:38 am
A couple of weird things:

Outerra testing version 0.7.12.3191 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbO7xeCLpoE#ws)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 04, 2012, 04:34:32 am
A couple of weird things:

The stuttering should have been fixed in the latest build. The falling through the ground is due to no collision on the body of the 8x8.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 04, 2012, 05:49:49 am
Could you try reverting to default settings (move eng.cfg and world.cfg away, to be regenerated)?
This was the first thing I did without success. -- Sorry, I should have mentioned this. :-[

Also, Nvidia CoProcManager may be causing some issues, you could try uninstalling it to see if it helps.
Moving "coprocmanger" folder out of "NVIDIA Corporation" folder causes Anteworld (and any other graphic software) not to switch to NVIDIA graphic card anymore and to start with the so called integrated graphic which is "Intel(R) HD Graphics Family" on my ASUS Notebook Hybrid System. In this case Anteworld does not start at all.


(Maybe this Hybrid System with two graphic cards is not the best solution for playing 3D-games, but perhaps you want to see running Anteworld on such a system also satisfiable?)


JB
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 06:47:26 am
Did it happen only after this update? Please also test other anti-aliasing modes if they exhibit it too.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 04, 2012, 08:53:29 am
Yes, it started to happen with version 3202.

Now I have tested all 5 anti-aliasing modes Anteworld makes available. And to be sure I've clicked on "Restart to apply" each time. -- No change.
I have also played around with settings from NVIDIA Control Center. -- No success.

Maybe it's the "M" for mobile graphic card which causes problems?

JB
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 10:27:54 am
Might be, there can be some difference. We'll look into possible causes.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Matthas on August 04, 2012, 01:38:49 pm
Noticed weird bug with shadows. It's easier to explain with Video so here it is. Dont bother about fps bug (or whatever its should be called) in game is all good except this Shadows bug. My graphic card is Nvidia Geforce 540M with latest drivers

http://youtu.be/JNI9hwuYUvE (http://youtu.be/JNI9hwuYUvE)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 04, 2012, 01:57:26 pm
Seems to be the same bug as in http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg13618#msg13618, (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg13618#msg13618,) again on a mobility chip.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Chaoss on August 04, 2012, 08:53:14 pm
!!!EPILEPSY/SEIZURE WARNING!!!!

This build contains a bug on the GTX 600 series graphics cards (and possibly others) where the screen flashes insistently (more than 4 or 5 times a second) in different colors, if you suffer from photo sensitive seizures or epilepsy please give the test builds a miss until it is fixed. Blasted thing nearly gave me a fit lol.

Also cameni could you include a warning in the OP. Cheers!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 05, 2012, 02:57:54 am
That's the 304.79 beta driver again, I guess. Do not use, I'll add a blocker.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: alexmdv on August 05, 2012, 09:19:43 am
Could you add text with current speed here?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Chaoz on August 05, 2012, 09:37:40 am
that functionality is already provided in the HUD which you can open with TAB. Only the Attitude indicator seems to be missing in the unstable branch
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 05, 2012, 11:27:16 am
Noticed weird bug with shadows

Seems to be the same bug [...] again on a mobility chip.

I can confirm this. This moving dimmed region showed in the video is the range of the shadowmap, which is, of course, dependent on the camera-position.

JB
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 05, 2012, 01:55:30 pm
More than a speed indicator on the Cessna we need an aircraft style Horizon Gyro

(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/10-02164.jpg)

but not on the Cessna.. on the 8x8. I swear I was driving up a hill and out of nowhere started rolling down it end over end because I couldn't judge the severity of the angle I was driving up/sideways except for the tree's at a certain external camera angle.

It would need to be physically modeled into the cockpit of the 8x8 and also a breakout HUD feature so that in follow cam I can calculate the limits of my journey upward.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 05, 2012, 02:53:51 pm
More than a speed indicator on the Cessna we need an aircraft style Horizon Gyro
What? Such a antiquated analogue gauge? Never heard of a modern digital glass cockpit? ;) 8)
(Me looking for a picture in my pocket, but cannot find one in the moment...  :()

JB
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 05, 2012, 03:12:03 pm
I like the old analog ones. Especially on a vehicle such as the 8x8.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: JotBe on August 05, 2012, 04:37:06 pm
I like the old analog ones.
Yes of course! They are nostalgic and they exude a kind of personality. -- I just wanted to tease a bit, no real offense meant. 8)

Especially on a vehicle such as the 8x8.
A glass cockpit in these 8x8s would be very funny! ;D

JB
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: Danielcz on August 06, 2012, 06:45:59 am
I like the old analog ones. Especially on a vehicle such as the 8x8.

they also suck more performance with theirs increased drawcalls isnt it? :D

how many materials 8x8 has? did outterra support multi UV?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: djt on August 07, 2012, 02:17:37 am
I've been out of the Outerra loop since the closed beta and I'm looking to start testing it again. I apologize if this has already been posted but what is the proper way to install the test builds? Do the test builds get installed over the latest version 0.7.11.3100?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 02:19:55 am
If you won't be returning to the 0.7.11 branch, you can install it over. Otherwise you should pick a different directory for both the program and data.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: djt on August 07, 2012, 03:54:57 am
If you won't be returning to the 0.7.11 branch, you can install it over. Otherwise you should pick a different directory for both the program and data.

Thanks for the response cameni.

I'm mainly interested in the progress of the test builds so I most likely won't be going back to the 0.7.11 branch.

With that in mind should I first install 0.7.11.3100 and then 0.712.3192? How do I get the 0.7.12.3202 update?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 04:02:34 am
Just install 0.7.12.3192. It will autoupdate to 3202.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: djt on August 07, 2012, 04:20:18 am
Just install 0.7.12.3192. It will autoupdate to 3202.

Will do, one more question I have is about GPU drivers. I'm using an Nvidia 680 GTX in one setup with the just released Nvidia 305.53 drivers and a AMD 7970 with the 12.7 beta's in another.

AMD's drivers haven't exactly been very good with Outerra in my experience so I'm not sure if it's even worth testing with the AMD 7970 but what do you think about trying the Nvidia 305.53's after some of the problems mentioned here with the 304.79's?


Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 04:31:17 am
I've tested 305.53 drivers on the internal build and these seem to be from a different branch and working correctly.
AMD drivers now work ok, we have made a couple of optimizations and workarounds since those times. However, there appeared some new issues specific for the 7xxx line of cards; the driver code path for it seems to have a couple of bugs that can lead to driver crashes.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 06:19:25 am
New patch 0.7.12.3212

Issue tracker (Trac) is working again, please use it for reporting bugs and keep track of changes/fixes. The tracker is accessible at http://www.outerra.com/xtrac (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac), for write access you will need to have your access code generated from within the game. To get it, when the login window appears, click on the "Account" link just below the login button. In the following screen click on a link to get the access code. This will allow you to open the tracker from within the game (F12). Please also copy the access code, it is used as a password when accessing http://www.outerra.com/xtrac (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac) from external browser, together with your nickname.

The internal tracker window doesn't yet support attaching files, this will be implemented when we update the browser plugin. Then it will allow also attaching current screenshots and configuration files automatically.

Buggy Nvidia 304.xx drivers are detected and user warned about it. New 305.53 beta drivers seem to be ok.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ddenn on August 07, 2012, 06:25:44 am
I get 404 Error File Not Found using link http://www.outerra.com/xtrac (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac)

EDIT Working now
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 06:36:56 am
Sorry, there was extra comma in the first url, fixed now.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: Chaoz on August 07, 2012, 07:12:47 am
crated ticket
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ddenn on August 07, 2012, 08:21:22 am
This will allow you to open the tracker from within the game (F12).

When I press F12 all is going on is the screen becomes a bit darker. If I continue pressing F12 it becomes black. The ESC menu is not affected though.

EDIT: Also can't change controls in the "Other" menu.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 08:42:13 am
Hmm the problem is that previously F12 was changing the exposure. Once you load the config it should remap it though.

... aaaaah, I know what's the problem. It detects that you have an old config only the first time you run it after the update, when you have to go to the controls. A workaround - open your eng.cfg, delete the line with cfg-version. Then run OT and go to the config and back to save it.

I must find a better way of updating the iomap.cfg :-\
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ddenn on August 07, 2012, 08:51:11 am
Now I can't even enter the controls menu

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: lookastdu on August 07, 2012, 08:53:20 am
I can't enter controls menu too. Only "Back" and "Quit" are working.

Edit: I restarted the game and... they works. :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 07, 2012, 09:00:53 am
Yeah an extra restart is required for the menus to work after the update.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 09:05:49 am
Can someone attach their iomap.cfg, what it looks like after the restart?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ddenn on August 07, 2012, 09:09:27 am
Here it is
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: JotBe on August 07, 2012, 09:21:45 am
The menu works when there is the line "cfg-version = 3212" in "eng.cfg".
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 07, 2012, 10:00:31 am
OK, 3213 should fix it. Go to the controls menu, it will create an issuetracker entry in the iomap.cfg. F12 should work then.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: deathevor on August 07, 2012, 08:05:59 pm
Few bugs noticed:

1) After last update there was massive fps drop in Outerra (that with default settings).
Can't tell exactly (FPS indicator always shows 30), but it was noticeably slower than previous version with max settings.
However in this new version I've changed most of settings on maximum and it started to go much smoother again.
And again noticed that next Outerra's start was lagging again, as soon settings changed and restarted with updater, goes smoothly again (and doesn't matter what settings).

2)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4959/screen1344383054.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/screen1344383054.jpg/)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8138/screen1344383148.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/screen1344383148.jpg/)

Sime glitch with propeller, when looking on it from shadow side (a bit at 45 degrees to rotation plane). It linearly disappears if camera moves  to 90 degrees.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7625/screen1344383071.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/screen1344383071.jpg/)
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7855/screen1344383070.th.jpg) (http://img850.imageshack.us/i/screen1344383070.jpg/)


Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3202
Post by: djt on August 07, 2012, 11:16:16 pm
I've tested 305.53 drivers on the internal build and these seem to be from a different branch and working correctly.

I ran the new patch 0.7.12.3212 on a fresh Windows 7/SP1 64 OS with the new Nvidia 305.53 drivers and only had about an hour to spend testing it but haven't seen any show stopper issues yet.

The most glaring bug is the one mentioned above where the propeller on the C172 turns black at certain angles to the sun.

I'm not sure what options in the graphics menu are actually working but I'm using 1920x1080 resolution, Vertical sync - full refresh, MSAA-8X, Shadowmap res - 8192x8192, Shadowmap samples - 16, Shadowmap kernel size -  4, Shadowmap distance -  20000, FOV angle - 100+ degrees,  triple buffering enabled in the Nvidia control panel and the performance was almost completely fluid/smooth.

In the continuous log at the top of the screen I did get a red error message - “cannot find sRGB pixelformat for PF_RGT1”.

Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 08, 2012, 03:31:04 am
Some ideas I have to write down before I forget again.

Can you make the UFO camera go lower to the ground? Currently it seems to use standing height of a human as the lowest angle. The only way to go lower is to use the swingman cam on a vehicle and that limits the photos/views a bit.

Second. The shadows I know in this new version are a bit bugged because one of my backgrounds is this shot.. http://i.minus.com/ii8tpnFutu6G7.png (http://i.minus.com/ii8tpnFutu6G7.png)  and you can see the stark contrast in shadow darkness/depth in the old shot vs any of the new ones ie http://i.minus.com/itUTOsc9z6kRk.png (http://i.minus.com/itUTOsc9z6kRk.png)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 08, 2012, 08:40:57 pm
Some more issues. At a certain angle of like 2° looking uphill in vietnam the mountain disappeared.

http://i.minus.com/ibpZAGZbjbrezZ.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ibpZAGZbjbrezZ.jpg) I can't get the internal screenshot function to work. I tried to edit the CFG to have the screens save elsewhere and it didn't work and putting it back now gives me nothing.



Also there is this bit..

(http://i.minus.com/iA4TVQpWeCILf.jpg)

**An autologin function wouldn't kill anyone either.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: Foxiol on August 09, 2012, 02:23:31 am
Same little bugs as everyone else after reading the comments but frame rate in my case is higher than in the previous build. That with grass enabled, MSAA X4 at 1080p. And with a not so great PC. (i think you have my specs in the specific thread)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2012, 02:34:35 am
Can you make the UFO camera go lower to the ground? Currently it seems to use standing height of a human as the lowest angle. The only way to go lower is to use the swingman cam on a vehicle and that limits the photos/views a bit.
It was 1.5m, lowered to 0.5m.

Quote
Second. The shadows I know in this new version are a bit bugged because one of my backgrounds is this shot.. http://i.minus.com/ii8tpnFutu6G7.png (http://i.minus.com/ii8tpnFutu6G7.png)  and you can see the stark contrast in shadow darkness/depth in the old shot vs any of the new ones ie http://i.minus.com/itUTOsc9z6kRk.png (http://i.minus.com/itUTOsc9z6kRk.png)
That's a problem with diffuse light, for some reason Angrypig can't get it right ...
Unrelated thing, I noticed that saved screenshots are bleaker than the real picture, I suspect jpeg color range and gamma has to do something with it.

I can't get the internal screenshot function to work. I tried to edit the CFG to have the screens save elsewhere and it didn't work and putting it back now gives me nothing.
What you've got there now?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 09, 2012, 02:45:58 am
,
videos_dir = \"G:\FRAPS TEMP",
screenshots_dir = \"C:\Anteworld\screenshots",
shadowmap_enabled 

That is what is in my cfg and it isn't saving videos or screens. I noted when I edited these that there was a double slash ie "C:\\Anteworld\\screenshots" but they didn't seem to make a difference. Will deleting my eng.cfg reset it to default?


Also 0.5m might be OK. I want to shoot through the grass for some more dramatic shots.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2012, 03:55:17 am
That leading backslash is added there erroneously on save, I need to fix that. Try adding a backslash at the end, like "c:\Anteworld\screenshots\"
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 09, 2012, 04:08:09 am
wow. I added that to both and got a fatal error - "13 string <<str>> was left unterminated" popup. If I remove it the game launches.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2012, 04:17:58 am
You must have removed the " or something.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 09, 2012, 04:27:13 am
I am going to delete it and let it be recreated.

Ok that worked. Made the lines..

,
videos_dir = \"videos\\",
screenshots_dir = \"screenshots\\",

Which put the directories in the data dir.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3212
Post by: angrypig on August 09, 2012, 10:15:58 am
Also there is this bit..

(http://i.minus.com/iA4TVQpWeCILf.jpg)

This light leak is caused by the shadow mask blur shader which doesn't count with the pixel depth yet... It should be fixed in the next update...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
New patch 0.7.12.3217
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: Kviki on August 10, 2012, 02:37:26 am
Heya. I just tried the latest testing version [for the first time]. While the new shadows look magnificent, the lag is still present. I figured that the grass causes the lag and the lower density grass doesn't really fix it. After disabling the 3D grass the lag is gone and outerra's performance is like it used to be before. However the new terrain without the 3D grass looks very weird. It would be very nice if the grass-less terrain could look like it did on the Bumpy Grass Effect video
Code: [Select]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ghwgcYeVA So even us who don't have as powerful PC's to run the grass could have joy from looking at the terrain.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: cameni on August 10, 2012, 03:23:50 am
What's your graphics card?

Yes the bladeless mode should use different settings, currently it's just the remote grass canopy turned on for the close views as well, and that doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: Kviki on August 10, 2012, 03:43:41 am
My graphics card is Geforce GTS 250 1gb VRAM
Processor is Athlon II x4 640 3.0 ghz (quad core)
4gb RAM
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: cameni on August 10, 2012, 04:03:05 am
With reduced grass quality it should work alright. You should probably use 480p for terrain quality there. What antialiasing mode are you using? (check if you haven't got it enforced it in the control panel). There are many things that affect the performance, but here with default settings we are using 250GTS and it works ok.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: Kviki on August 10, 2012, 04:13:46 am
The AA is FXAA, nvidia control panel is set to ''application controlled'', and the only program I have in the background running is 'Rainmeter' which uses 30K of memory (doesn't affect Outerra's perforamce either when its shut down). The difference between grass on and off is very noticable. The engine is way more fluid when it's off. With grass 'on' it starts lagging especially when I align the camera horizontally with the landscape.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: cameni on August 10, 2012, 04:47:55 am
Well, grass is not cheap, that's for sure. But still ...
Can you attach your eng.log here?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3217
Post by: Kviki on August 10, 2012, 05:35:11 am
Sure.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: cameni on August 10, 2012, 04:00:44 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3222:

There was something else added, lets see who will first notice :)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Chaoz on August 10, 2012, 04:24:38 pm
i haven't found anything yet...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 10, 2012, 06:43:35 pm
Dammit I am not home to look!

I am calling Apache without any access to verify.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ddenn on August 10, 2012, 07:51:47 pm
Is it sound of wind in the mountains? It's nice, though I'm not sure doppler effect should work for wind same as for static object
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: cameni on August 10, 2012, 07:58:42 pm
No, that was to fix the grasshoppers on Everest :)
I need to turn off the doppler for those area sounds ...
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Danielcz on August 10, 2012, 10:23:21 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3222:

There was something else added, lets see who will first notice :)

did you changed something with terrain LOD? because terrain pops up much more then before + trees
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 11, 2012, 02:02:44 am
If it isn't the Apache, and isn't the wind/crows/wolves then I must keep digging. I went through the menu's and checked all the tools. I haven't gone through all the models to import as it has crashed about six times in 8 minutes. (Damn 4000 series).

I will keep looking.

EDIT:: The hell is this?

(http://i.minus.com/i2qw6zMKyfK2v.jpg)

Old file dates however.



EDIT EDIT.. It is the Crows and Wolf sounds.. Still want to know about that hovercraft.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Midviki on August 11, 2012, 03:10:19 am
- It works fine, a bit of low frames... like 15-20 max on 1080p res, but I'm think for now there is no need for so much graphics.But I must say the clothes on that soldier model looks pretty high res, I mean It looks better then the armor from Tera Online MMO or Guild Wars 2.How many polygons does he have?(a lot from what I see.. probably around 20.000-30.000 from what I see).

- Did you tried animation on that human-soldier model? How's that frame rate / CPU usage?Considering the game / engine will probably come out in 1-2 years max(I hope). And probably everyone on the world will have an usual common 32GB DDR4 or DDR5 Ram , 6 or 8 core processor of 3.0+ GHz , and a 256 bit Game Card of 1GB(at least). I mean now I can buy with 500-700Euro's a 32GB DDR3 Ram , i7 with 4 cores of 3.4GHz, and 1GB VGA with 256 + the rest.Think of the future power.


- And the most important questions...Any new major features that the team is currently working on ? Like : Object importer ,  Object properties to script the AI Objects , terrain & texture manipulation? And why isn't there a link or some kind of button with Charity or Donation option on the front page?I alone I would donate 1<->5 Euro monthly as pour as I am here in my country, just to see the project grow wings the team bigger more man power with mad skills!And there are probably people that would donate more then pour me.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 11, 2012, 03:24:22 am
I can tell you the next big update will be the Object importer and something else I can't remember.. More wolves maybe.

If you buy the game for $15 and want to donate more. Buy the game for everyone you know! A kickstarter may be used once there is enough of a base to build off of.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Kviki on August 11, 2012, 04:29:18 am
Bug: When I want to spawn the helicopter outerra crashes.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Midviki on August 11, 2012, 04:41:12 am
I can tell you the next big update will be the Object importer and something else I can't remember.. More wolves maybe.

What "wolves" ?
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 11, 2012, 04:44:27 am
Ok. A few things.

First. In this shot.

(http://i.minus.com/iHmj7IVmIGasM.jpg)

I have Debug Keys enabled and that Info-Panel in the upper left appears seemingly when I leave the ground. Is there a way to turn it off after this happens and does it open due to an error?

Next I don't think you quite fixed the "fixed limiter issues under narrow fov" If you look the terrain closest to me it is un-refined and stays that way until I raise my FOV to 50+ horizontal. I have a video of its behavior but I am not sure if you can read the numbers in the corner.

Outerra - Debug Valley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2_pXwFFHcc#)

What "wolves" ?

Just stand out in the forest. You will hear their call.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: cameni on August 11, 2012, 05:14:27 am
I have Debug Keys enabled and that Info-Panel in the upper left appears seemingly when I leave the ground. Is there a way to turn it off after this happens and does it open due to an error?
It pops up when the limiter doesn't have enough tiles in the cache to cover the rendering needs with current quality settings. It can be closed after the condition passes away, using alt+5.

Quote
Next I don't think you quite fixed the "fixed limiter issues under narrow fov" If you look the terrain closest to me it is un-refined and stays that way until I raise my FOV to 50+ horizontal. I have a video of its behavior but I am not sure if you can read the numbers in the corner.
Hm, I've been debugging it using ddenn's location, but it seems that in mountains it has even higher requirements. Or the equation to boost the cache with FOV angle is wrong. Me needs to think.

Quote
EDIT EDIT.. It is the Crows and Wolf sounds.. Still want to know about that hovercraft.
The hovercraft was an old experiment way back even before the first beta, and the files got there. It was a giant hovering .. chicken thing on which I tested hover physics. I can't find any pics of it, maybe Angrypig will have something.

It was horrendously unstable so I gave it up then. Now I think my poor modification of Bullet vehicle physics at that time had to do something with it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Midviki on August 11, 2012, 05:56:39 am

What "wolves" ?

Just stand out in the forest. You will hear their call.

aha.... I thought of real running wolves  :P... yep I heard the howls when I was testing roads up the mountains.The grass road was a little bugged when colliding with the "rock" texture or tree's but I guess that's why is a grass road.Anyway what you said about the object importer that's a big step if that's next... and I think its better to just ignore road / roads glitches and focus on the object importer.

I mean, some developers will make cities!!! Medieval , ancient , futuristic cities!!!... it will go viral on the web, especially youtube... Next minecraft game!  ;D
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 11, 2012, 09:36:19 am
It was a giant hovering .. chicken thing on which I tested hover physics. It was horrendously unstable.

This sounds like the greatest contribution to gaming of all time. I must posses it.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: hhrhhr on August 11, 2012, 09:57:21 am
The plane will not start the engine, but the noise from the engine goes:
bandicam 2012 08 11 17 50 38 175 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUbQcCV77mI#ws)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Chaoz on August 11, 2012, 11:30:08 am
What you are expieriencing isn't a bug, but a feature :D You are simply flying too high for your current fuel flow. You have to lower your fuel flow to an appropriate level by using the END key. when flying lower you can bring it back up by using the HOME key.

The noise on the orther hand is bugged since day 1, I really hope that this changes soon.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Jagerbomber on August 11, 2012, 01:56:03 pm
Implying it's not this...
FUEL Gameplay Hovercraft Challenge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msiJL3643l0#)
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 12, 2012, 03:13:10 pm
Just a quick note. You can mash the 3 key and spawn the 8x8 while still initializing world. Causes you to spawn in falling through the ground. May want to make it not available until you are actually in the world.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: cameni on August 12, 2012, 03:39:59 pm
Please add bugs like these to the tracker, so that they don't get easily forgotten.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 13, 2012, 01:39:46 am
Added. Will have to get use to it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 17, 2012, 11:45:44 am
Patch 0.7.12.3230:
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: djt on August 17, 2012, 01:31:16 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3230:
  • #65 fixed cessna initial heading
  • #58 fixed cessna under ground spawn
  • #63 fixed cessna engine sound behavior
  • #67 fixed vehicle exit position, exiting vehicle moves you to the left side of the object bounding box (exit points will implemented later)
  • #68 fixed third person camera pivot, moved to the OBB center
  • disabled insertion of vehicles on unrefined terrain
  • added frustum culling for trees (speedup 33 -> 36 fps, w/o trees 43 in benchmark mode)
  • disabled heli insertion (model not rdy yet, crashing)


I decided to give the new Catalyst 12.8's a try with the AMD 7970 again.

The log-on screen loads and then the updater runs and then hangs with a message -

“Waiting for the original process (3040) to end ..”


It never makes it past this point and I have to close out of the updater?

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ddenn on August 17, 2012, 01:33:57 pm
Is the Cessna engine/prop sound suppose to behave like this? Now it changes pitch considerably depending of camera position, low pitch if camera is behind and hi pitch if camera is in front of the plane. Tested when the plane moving in the air, if the simulation is stopped, sounds are ok.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: angrypig on August 17, 2012, 01:44:34 pm
Is the Cessna engine/prop sound suppose to behave like this? Now it changes pitch considerably depending of camera position, low pitch if camera is behind and hi pitch if camera is in front of the plane. Tested when the plane moving in the air, if the simulation is stopped, sounds are ok.

No it's a bug...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 17, 2012, 01:57:17 pm
I decided to give the new Catalyst 12.8's a try with the AMD 7970 again.

The log-on screen loads and then the updater runs and then hangs with a message -

“Waiting for the original process (3040) to end ..”


It never makes it past this point and I have to close out of the updater?
Probably hangs up in the driver. Try to kill the original process (outerra.exe), the updater should continue. However, it's possible that the new version will still hang at the exit ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: hhrhhr on August 17, 2012, 02:19:00 pm
No it's a bug...
doppler effect occurs only in the case of objects with different speeds. if the camera and the plane moving at the same speed, but the tone of the sound is different - i think it's a bug.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: djt on August 17, 2012, 04:22:35 pm

Quote
Probably hangs up in the driver. Try to kill the original process (outerra.exe), the updater should continue. However, it's possible that the new version will still hang at the exit ...


Thanks, I gave that a try but in task manager outerra.exe doesn't even show running after the updater starts.


Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 17, 2012, 04:27:00 pm
Hmm that's odd, please double check. The updater doesn't have anything to do with graphics drivers, it waits for a particular process id to terminate. If it still sees the process running, but you can't see it in the process manager, that would mean the process is in some ultra-zombie state  ???
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: djt on August 17, 2012, 05:08:11 pm
Hmm that's odd, please double check. The updater doesn't have anything to do with graphics drivers, it waits for a particular process id to terminate. If it still sees the process running, but you can't see it in the process manager, that would mean the process is in some ultra-zombie state  ???


My bad, after terminating outerra.exe *32 it finally updated and the program loaded.

One issue is that I can't get the MSAA-8X option too enable after restarting. FXAA works but MSAA-8X doesn't? Other than that the performance is surprisingly good compared to what I've seen in the past with ATI/AMD GPU's and Outerra.


Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Spudly on August 18, 2012, 12:26:12 am
I tried the 305.53 nvidia drivers with a GTX 470 and every thing works fine.  Did they fix something that was broken?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 18, 2012, 01:29:04 am
One issue is that I can't get the MSAA-8X option too enable after restarting. FXAA works but MSAA-8X doesn't? Other than that the performance is surprisingly good compared to what I've seen in the past with ATI/AMD GPU's and Outerra.
MSAA modes are disabled on ATI in the dev version because of a driver bug, shaders can't read depth values from multisample depth surfaces correctly. We need to check it with the new drivers again.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 18, 2012, 01:31:02 am
I tried the 305.53 nvidia drivers with a GTX 470 and every thing works fine.  Did they fix something that was broken?
It seems that 305 is a different driver branch than 304.
304 seem to be a resurrection of the old 29? version that was problematic in a similar way.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: djt on August 18, 2012, 03:34:27 pm
MSAA modes are disabled on ATI in the dev version because of a driver bug, shaders can't read depth values from multisample depth surfaces correctly. We need to check it with the new drivers again.

Figures, I'm beginning to think that trying to run Outerra (or any other game engine that uses OpenGL for that matter) without issues on AMD GPU's is  a lost cause.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 18, 2012, 05:05:34 pm
Figures, I'm beginning to think that trying to run Outerra (or any other game engine that uses OpenGL for that matter) without issues on AMD GPU's is  a lost cause.
It's not that bad, their dev team is really cooperative, but it takes 3 months until their fixed development drivers get published (because of their QA procedures). We usually need to present a simplified test case that can reproduce the bug, and it can take us some time to make one. So it's usually 4-5 months until people can get a fixed driver from the moment we encounter something wrong. In the last year we submitted like 10 bug reports (and they all got fixed).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on August 18, 2012, 09:20:26 pm
- I was playing around with different type of roads and I was thinking, will custom textures importer for the roads would be possible to be added before or after the object importer?Any schedule on that?

- And I was wondering another thing, about the future planet creator when you will develop it, in maybe a few years, if we are eager to start developing and modifying the environment now, investing time till the planet creator will be released, even if we don't intend to take Earth's land masses as role models.But till the release we would like some islands or lets say Japan, or Indonesia,(something small) to work on them.Will you plan on giving us the feature or possibility to modify parts of the maps of other land masses for the rest of the current planet? but as well to keep the feature of our already modified island(s) that we worked on for 1-2 years till then.To not lose what is saved.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 19, 2012, 02:19:46 am
Enhancements to the road system will be made somewhere during the development of major stuff (the biomes), once the importer and vehicle configurator is ready.

As for the custom development of terrain, you can do what ME-DEM (http://www.me-dem.me.uk/) guys are doing - creating large, continent-scale height fields with 100m resolution that can be imported. That path will be always possible. The creator will mainly simplify the whole process, allowing you to work at various levels of detail at once, starting off by sketching continent outlines, major mountain ridges and rivers, a biome map etc. Procedural algorithms will generate a believable world out of it down to the ground level, while you will be able to add or modify it at places to match your devices.

The same thing can be achieved by using lots of tools for terrain forming and erosion filters and whatnot, so you might want to take that route when you want to start right now. And the ME-DEM guys are always helpful to the fellow cartographers (http://www.cartographersguild.com/) ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on August 19, 2012, 07:43:02 am
Thanks for the reply, very informative and helpful. I'l get on to work then!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Danielcz on August 19, 2012, 10:11:25 am
Enhancements to the road system will be made somewhere during the development of major stuff (the biomes), once the importer and vehicle configurator is ready.

As for the custom development of terrain, you can do what ME-DEM (http://www.me-dem.me.uk/) guys are doing - creating large, continent-scale height fields with 100m resolution that can be imported. That path will be always possible. The creator will mainly simplify the whole process, allowing you to work at various levels of detail at once, starting off by sketching continent outlines, major mountain ridges and rivers, a biome map etc. Procedural algorithms will generate a believable world out of it down to the ground level, while you will be able to add or modify it at places to match your devices.

The same thing can be achieved by using lots of tools for terrain forming and erosion filters and whatnot, so you might want to take that route when you want to start right now. And the ME-DEM guys are always helpful to the fellow cartographers (http://www.cartographersguild.com/) ;)

so this means no hand brush painting terrain heightmap and layers?  :'( but more like geocontrol 2
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: zuluknob on August 19, 2012, 11:07:30 pm
I decided to give the new Catalyst 12.8's a try with the AMD 7970 again.

The log-on screen loads and then the updater runs and then hangs with a message -

“Waiting for the original process (3040) to end ..”


It never makes it past this point and I have to close out of the updater?
Probably hangs up in the driver. Try to kill the original process (outerra.exe), the updater should continue. However, it's possible that the new version will still hang at the exit ...
yeh, i had the same problem. it is still looping in the driver with 12.8 and not exiting properly when quitting so you have to kill the process in task manager.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Chaoss on August 20, 2012, 07:03:02 am
Question: what are biomes?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 20, 2012, 08:04:41 am
Different ecosystems found on the planet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomes)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Chaoss on August 20, 2012, 09:16:28 am
Different ecosystems found on the planet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomes)
Ah ok kool, good luck with that, that sounds like a tun of work
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: cameni on August 24, 2012, 04:39:13 am
It was a giant hovering .. chicken thing on which I tested hover physics. It was horrendously unstable.

This sounds like the greatest contribution to gaming of all time. I must posses it.

(http://i.minus.com/j9NSXLseYv418.jpg) (http://minus.com/l9NSXLseYv418)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: SpaceFlight on August 24, 2012, 06:16:42 am
It needs dip sauce.
Title: Re: Testing version: 0.7.12.3222
Post by: Krutan on August 24, 2012, 06:17:03 am
It was a giant hovering .. chicken thing on which I tested hover physics. It was horrendously unstable.

This sounds like the greatest contribution to gaming of all time. I must posses it.

(http://i.minus.com/j9NSXLseYv418.jpg) (http://minus.com/l9NSXLseYv418)
Holy sh*t. That looks awesome! :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 24, 2012, 06:48:59 pm
Definitely not the most elegant design I have ever seen. Probably best if left omitted. 
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on August 26, 2012, 07:52:00 am
Wow, the framerate increase from the current stable build to this dev build is amazing! Keep up the awesome work :D Can't wait for rocks, procedural trees, foliage and trains xD
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 27, 2012, 03:39:20 pm
I found some time ago this problem on 3220 version, but it still exists at 3230:
Video #1: http://youtu.be/81-CwBOwTL4 (http://youtu.be/81-CwBOwTL4)
Video #2: http://youtu.be/ZbiCA3V73go (http://youtu.be/ZbiCA3V73go)
For me it looks like the ambient lightning is only applied if camera is closer to ground/object than about 1m(?). It appears on ground as well as on vehicle.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 27, 2012, 03:48:30 pm
Hmm looks like a shadow to me. That seems to be another hint at some depth-related problems on ATI 3xxx series ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on August 27, 2012, 08:40:50 pm
Omg! Omg! Omg! Go buy a better computer :D. But as I observed, most of the "problems" are caused because of the low resolution settings.So if you pump up a bit the stats and your computer can handle it, the "problems" disappear.

But there is a thing, when you look at the ground very closely you can see the squares.(like in Minecraft textures, lots and lots of squares)
Is it something I need to increase on the settings?Increase the iterations.
Or is it just like that because its made that way, so when you look from the distance it looks good.But I would want to use a custom kind of texture, a more complex mosaic with a higher resolution?Or is it a problem of ram or something and that's why it isn't as I desire it to be?Or maybe I need to twitch the settings a bit??
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 28, 2012, 02:08:52 am
Adjust "max terrain level generated", will get you a higher texture resolution. There can be some artifacting because of the fractal in the smaller levels isn't properly damped or what, so it needs a bit of work. Also, you may need boosting the fractal cache size a bit.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on August 28, 2012, 06:55:02 am
A few little things I've noticed in 3230:

-LoD seems to keep getting stuck and not working untill the game is restarted
-The Cessna sometimes glitches up and spins rapidly in the air (possibly a physics glitch)
-The Cessna keeps climbing and tilting upwards even when 'S' is not being pressed (this might just be me not flying it correctly)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 28, 2012, 07:13:23 am
These should be #62 and #74 in the issue tracker (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1211.0), and the last one is probably you not trimming the airplane ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on August 28, 2012, 08:13:33 am
Great! (I knew it was me not flying properly :P) I'll be sure to check the Issue Tracker next time I find a problem!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 28, 2012, 08:57:49 am
Omg! Omg! Omg! Go buy a better computer :D. But as I observed, most of the "problems" are caused because of the low resolution settings.So if you pump up a bit the stats and your computer can handle it, the "problems" disappear.
This isn't rather problem of low res settings. :P If I change settings to higher then I have more black squares. As cameni said, it may be problem with depth buffer.

Btw. cameni, should I add "black squares problem" and the last one to xtrac?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 28, 2012, 09:37:53 am
Yes please add it, so we are reminded about it. Btw did you report it to AMD? Any response?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 28, 2012, 11:11:04 am
Oh no, I'm stupid... I reported it quadrans ago. Thanks for reminding me. :)

Ok, here's another issue:
I decided to turn on shadows and bam:
http://youtu.be/0cbJoXq4HL0 (http://youtu.be/0cbJoXq4HL0)
As you can see it looks like the whole terrain is under shadow of something invisible (I know that doesn't have sense... :P ).
My shadow settings: 1024x1024, 1 sample, 1 kernel size, 8000 shadow distance.
Also look at grass, it looks like rendered properly, without shadow.

Take a look at this low-resolution something ( 0:03 on video ).

Another interesting thing: everytime I spawn truck with 3 button the game crashes... You probably got crash report also. It started to happen after turning on shadows.

Edit: Radeon 3870 + Catalyst 12.6
Edit 2: I changed shadows settings to:
8 samples, 2 kernel size, 10'000 shadows distance. And now it works properly. :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 28, 2012, 12:38:35 pm
I found some time ago this problem on 3220 version, but it still exists at 3230:
Video #1: http://youtu.be/81-CwBOwTL4 (http://youtu.be/81-CwBOwTL4)
Video #2: http://youtu.be/ZbiCA3V73go (http://youtu.be/ZbiCA3V73go)
For me it looks like the ambient lightning is only applied if camera is closer to ground/object than about 1m(?). It appears on ground as well as on vehicle.

Ok, some news:
After turning on shadows (1024x1024, 4 samples, 1 kernel size) problem of "shadow when camera is very close to ground/object" doesn't exist. :) But black squares are still...
I can spawn truck too.

It looks that setting shadowmap sample to 1, 2 or 3 (but there will be always 1, I reported about it on xtrac, issue #86) makes problem I described in previous post and causes game crash after spawning truck.


Summarising:

no shadows -> spawning truck works, weird shadow when camera is very close to ground/object
1 shadowmap sample, 1 kernel size -> spawning truck crashes game, the whole terrain is under shadow (as you can see on vid from prev post)
4+ shadowmap sample, 1+ kernel size -> spawning truck works, no weird shadows when camera is very close to ground/object

Black squares bug occurs on every combination :P
There is still 1 thing unresolved from previous post: this low-resolution thing (fragment of terrain?) at 0:03 ( http://youtu.be/0cbJoXq4HL0 (http://youtu.be/0cbJoXq4HL0) )
Coords for this place: LAT: +21*35'29"   LON: -157*54'23"   HDG: 210   Altitude: 220m
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 28, 2012, 01:26:06 pm
The crash report (after spawning truck) isn't related to the shadows. It's a bug that's already fixed internally, when you spawned truck being higher above terrain or looking more upwards, it sometimes crashed.

Can you post screenshot from that terrain bug? Just a small one, so I can jump into it (screenshots have GPS info embedded).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 28, 2012, 01:32:21 pm
Sure, here:
http://i.minus.com/iFRbgCQ6Wgl3p.jpg (http://i.minus.com/iFRbgCQ6Wgl3p.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on August 28, 2012, 02:13:37 pm
Thanks, I can't reproduce it here on 460 GTX, but maybe it isn't related to your ATI 3xxx but to your settings, can you share your world.cfg?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on August 28, 2012, 03:52:53 pm
I don't think it's a bug.  If you look closely, all those areas are near forests, and concentrated mostly within them.  I think it's the lairs of the Things That Want to Kill You in the Anteworld game ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 28, 2012, 04:08:07 pm
Wow.. Trying to launch Outerra through steam has some very odd side effects.. Like all the terrain disappearing.

Damned steam overlay.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: lookastdu on August 28, 2012, 05:12:41 pm
Ok, here is my world.cfg
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Jagerbomber on August 28, 2012, 11:05:12 pm
Wow.. Trying to launch Outerra through steam has some very odd side effects.. Like all the terrain disappearing.

Damned steam overlay.

Did you miss all the things we said before?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 28, 2012, 11:27:34 pm
I don't read posts.. I just create them.

And I had to try it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 01, 2012, 05:01:11 pm
In my attempts of creating bridges between islands and islands from Road terrain.I got to some points that I don't really know how to make them work.So...

Any idea how I could make the transition between terrain and road without the border line.The line from the end of the road like in this pictures:

- http://postimage.org/image/8owfg8t1n/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/8owfg8t1n/full/)
- http://postimage.org/image/e1jr3foj9/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/e1jr3foj9/full/)

And how do I make them blend in the same way?As you will see in the next picture, the grass from the island terrain is more beautiful and the one from the road is not so colorful and well grown like the one from the real terrain.Can we make it grow in some way?

- http://postimage.org/image/x7vunv05v/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/x7vunv05v/full/)

And this is the road island that I tried to enlarge it between two other small islands, eh it is not so big, but big enough to make some other roads on it and place some huts , tents , houses , etc... , and its more like a bridge between two islands:

- http://postimage.org/image/45wwsmgrz/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/45wwsmgrz/full/)

And here is something like a grass / road bridge, where I observed that the waves sometimes they go trough the "bridge", but in this last picture you can't see if the waves go trough and trough the terrain, cause I managed to figure it out a bit, I rose the terrain a bit and the waves didn't react like nothing was there, but if it was smaller it would've gone trough it like it was nothing:

- http://postimage.org/image/4krbt4wa9/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/4krbt4wa9/full/)         

And the last thing, I know that the road if it goes trough the forest it removes the trees in its path... but if we would like to make a grass/dirt road that would not affect the trees, you know like in the park or forest where there are some roads formed from a lot of walking over those paths on that ground.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 01, 2012, 05:21:55 pm
To get the road endpoints blended into terrain you have to set the node type to lead-in and lead-out for the startpoint and a node before the endpoint, respectively.

Grass grows lower near the road, but it should not be so for the natural roads, i.e. for the ones that aren't supposed to change the material type, so it's a bug. The road system will be updated so that these things (+ the tree clearing out) can be made configurable.

The ocean waves probably don't take large artificial sea floor changes into account when computing the wave parameters, although it would be good to check whether it still does not respect the new shores after restarting the program.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 02, 2012, 03:37:03 am
To get the road endpoints blended into terrain you have to set the node type to lead-in and lead-out for the startpoint and a node before the endpoint, respectively.

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, I'm not of English origin to get the logic well.. but if I guess you told me to make the road as if a snake would bite his tail... right?Or it was something else?

I tried on a small scale with asphalt as a test:

- http://postimage.org/image/6j1xte77f/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/6j1xte77f/full/)

- http://postimage.org/image/7y7by0sxh/ (http://postimage.org/image/7y7by0sxh/)

- http://postimage.org/image/61eqnukzv/ (http://postimage.org/image/61eqnukzv/)

- http://postimage.org/image/qrpbf46ij/ (http://postimage.org/image/qrpbf46ij/)

As you can see, it seems to work... a bit.But its asphalt.And probably you suggested me some other technique.Cause... on a bigger scale for example what I tried to do.. some terrains might not be so welcoming in a straight line for me just to make the "snake to bite his tail" and the terrain would be blended.And even so it still leaves behind some kind of trace that shows the merge.Not to mention on terrain that it is not straight and goes uphill in some places.

The road seems like very powerful tool, and might as well a bit improved can be used to modify the terrain.And in that way other tools for modifying the terrain or painting it may be postponed even after the release.

Especially if we could:

- introduce our own textures in to the road;

- if the road width can be greater than 204,75m; (and of course, not getting instant thrown out of the engine if we try to manually write the number in that box)

- and last if we could blend in multiple terrains properly, even if the terrain is in "waves" and not blend in only where the terrain is flat and in a straight line, but as well when the terrain is undulated, in shapes, and we could actually bend the pieces from the end so they can be as nothing is between them at their union point.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 02, 2012, 04:12:41 am
No, I didn't mean sticking the ends together, but setting the properties of the endpoints.
This is the original, unterminated piece of road, with the artifacts where it ends:

(http://i.minus.com/jv7T3dGV5z8JS.jpg) (http://minus.com/lv7T3dGV5z8JS)

Now if you add another node at the end, and then select the previous node back and change its marking to "lead-out" (for the road end), you'll get a properly terminated road like this:

(http://i.minus.com/jEzXiUqBdqL60.jpg) (http://minus.com/lEzXiUqBdqL60)

For larger-scale edits there will be a different tool, that would allow you to select a polygonal area and set properties to it, as doing it with roads would be ineffective.

Quote
- and last if we could blend in multiple terrains properly, even if the terrain is in "waves" and not blend in only where the terrain is flat and in a straight line, but as well when the terrain is undulated, in shapes, and we could actually bend the pieces from the end so they can be as nothing is between them at their union point.
Not sure what you mean by this ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 02, 2012, 01:31:04 pm
Yay!  :D ... it works  :)

Thank you for enlighten me with your wisdom  ;D

It needed a bit twitching but it seems to work out well:

- http://postimage.org/image/918h36zuh/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/918h36zuh/full/)

And the "wave" terrain I was talking... I think it works on that as well. I was referring to terrain that has a lot of abrupt geography, but with what you showed me it stretches the terrain as it pleases without any big fuss.And the terrain similarities will be solved in time with some updates I guess.So its nice. :D ... Thank you again!  :)

I hope this will be helpful for others that will try the same thing.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: zuluknob on September 04, 2012, 09:13:24 am
No, I didn't mean sticking the ends together, but setting the properties of the endpoints.
This is the original, unterminated piece of road, with the artifacts where it ends:

(http://i.minus.com/jv7T3dGV5z8JS.jpg) (http://minus.com/lv7T3dGV5z8JS)

Now if you add another node at the end, and then select the previous node back and change its marking to "lead-out" (for the road end), you'll get a properly terminated road like this:

(http://i.minus.com/jEzXiUqBdqL60.jpg) (http://minus.com/lEzXiUqBdqL60)

For larger-scale edits there will be a different tool, that would allow you to select a polygonal area and set properties to it, as doing it with roads would be ineffective.

Quote
- and last if we could blend in multiple terrains properly, even if the terrain is in "waves" and not blend in only where the terrain is flat and in a straight line, but as well when the terrain is undulated, in shapes, and we could actually bend the pieces from the end so they can be as nothing is between them at their union point.
Not sure what you mean by this ...
wouldn't it be better/quicker to terminate the road this way by default if x number of pixels beyond the end do not contain road or other models. while retaining the ability to do it this way for cases where grass grows between concrete slabs on unused road/runways.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 04, 2012, 09:17:22 am
Probably will be done automatically every time, and removed only when you are going to snap it to another road.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 04, 2012, 10:09:18 am
Can the road editor be set to automatically start with a lead in and have the last node set to lead out when you press make road? Switching that node to a normal one if you extend the road longer.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 04, 2012, 10:42:56 am
That's not quite desirable, as it would mean that a two- and three-point road would not exist (would not render anything), and that would fill up the support line pretty quick.

A better thing would be to add two extra (invisible) endpoints automatically, that would also enable you to manipulate the tangents at your road ends, which is currently not possible.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 04, 2012, 10:45:46 am
Just getting the thought out there.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Edding3000 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:32 pm
Any updates on development?
Model importer? 3D trees?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 04, 2012, 12:56:58 pm
You didn't get this from me...

(http://i.minus.com/inbIjQs5PpgeV.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Abc94 on September 04, 2012, 01:34:10 pm
You didn't get this from me...

What?  How did you get the model importer?   ???
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Matt6767 on September 04, 2012, 01:38:47 pm
You didn't get this from me...

Yes I did.  ::)

Also that looks very neat.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 04, 2012, 01:48:15 pm
You didn't get this from me...

What?  How did you get the model importer?   ???

I didn't >> I am subscribed to Cameni on Minus. http://outerra.minus.com/ (http://outerra.minus.com/)  Hot off the presses.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Abc94 on September 04, 2012, 02:05:28 pm
I didn't >> I am subscribed to Cameni on Minus. http://outerra.minus.com/ (http://outerra.minus.com/)  Hot off the presses.

Cool, didn't know about that.


Hey, is there a chance that the importer will be included in the next release?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 04, 2012, 03:52:11 pm
Yes, the next one will come with the first version of the importer, initially for static objects.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 04, 2012, 04:40:46 pm
Yes, the next one will come with the first version of the importer, initially for static objects.

Well as soon as I get my hands on that there will be a lot of static airplanes to fill up them empty airports.  :)

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 04, 2012, 06:03:25 pm

Well as soon as I get my hands on that there will be a lot of static airplanes to fill up them empty airports.  :)

Deutschmark

I have already planed alike 3-4 medieval cities that will be made!

But the thing is... will there be a possibility to make some kind of save backups? I mean if we cannot save from inside the engine... can we at least know what files we can save or replace to do or undo what we would had done wrong... or we simply just don't see perfection in it and have the need to be redone.Cause for example now.. I have made some big "bubu" in some parts of the world on the terrain.And in some zones it happens to be needing them.And I can't undo what I have made.It is purely bugged.

For now to resolve it I started downloading via torrent all the terrain files to have them for safety in my computer and replace the damaged terrain.

But the thing is if we have made a hole city already, and happens to us to have made a mistake... in some close place... and we can't undo it and that zone is of relevance.Just saying.When some things happen and we must learn to have a backup with the buildings / objects and all terrain modifications.

And there is another thing, can we have an option for those who can log in.After we log in, if we have all the files or if we have already downloaded via server the zone that we work on and need nothing else, we could have the possibility to work offline?...even if we get disconnected and don't have internet after we log in, and not get disconnected, or maybe even unplug the cable to assure the safety and private property of the content that we create, not to be uploaded to others.And only if we wish and want to.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 05, 2012, 01:01:44 am
All terrain modifications and object placements are stored in the cache folder. Original terrain data files are never modified.
In the cache folder it's stored in an internal hierarchic structure that's a bit awkward to navigate, so there will have to be some tools helping with that.

Your files are private to you now and will be forever in the sandbox mode, only in the game mode you'll get updates from others but that's gong to be stored separately. There will be also an offline mode later for the sandbox.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 05, 2012, 01:09:12 am
Perhaps a backup and restore function on the cache folder. I can see heartbreak for a few people that delete it or reinstall without keeping it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 05, 2012, 02:45:17 am
Oh.. Cameni'i , Cameni'i , Camen'i ... I would be lost without you! (This coming from a guy (lol) ) ;D You are so helpful... your wife must love you or will if you don't have if you keep it like this , very much! ( ... I think this was awkward... wasn't it?.. was it?... dunno  ::) )

Thank you again for the info  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 05, 2012, 02:55:22 am
Perhaps a backup and restore function on the cache folder. I can see heartbreak for a few people that delete it or reinstall without keeping it.
Yes but nobody backups their stuff only until it starts smoking. IMO the best way would be to store the modifications in the cloud, we need to do it for game devs who will work in a distributed manner and will acquire a realm where their game will reside, and perhaps this could be used even for individuals (maybe with some limits).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 03:09:16 am
Since the Minus messed up and published screens I had uploaded for our modeler so he could see the bugs that had to be fixed, and Zeos snatched them before I found out, I might as well show them here :)
Note: beta materials, WIP. The original model by Amit Chippa (http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/dnm/model_disp.php?uid=1478)

Current state:
(http://i.minus.com/jb0qCVjFQKzd3L.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb0qCVjFQKzd3L)

Earlier ones with various bugs, but showing different angles (no antialiasing on these):
(http://i.minus.com/jby7pQDR8aTNuP.jpg) (http://minus.com/lby7pQDR8aTNuP)
(http://i.minus.com/jXxa4Z7d3CqWW.jpg) (http://minus.com/lXxa4Z7d3CqWW)

A raw model as it came from the importer:
(http://i.minus.com/jdmGX75xHd4Oq.jpg) (http://minus.com/ldmGX75xHd4Oq)
(http://i.minus.com/j4206YZLDhzQb.jpg) (http://minus.com/l4206YZLDhzQb)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Bartolomeus on September 06, 2012, 03:18:36 am
No AA?...that looks really awesome! Great work Cameni. Can't wait to import my models. :)

Marko
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 03:21:32 am
And seeing that you have a nice model importer... ammmm... :)
Am sure you know what am thinking...  ;D

O... BTW... like the car  8)

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Chaoz on September 06, 2012, 04:01:51 am
BMW just look awesome
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 04:53:38 am
And seeing that you have a nice model importer... ammmm... :)
Am sure you know what am thinking...  ;D
As soon as it stops crashing here and there, the importer is yours ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 05:10:21 am
And seeing that you have a nice model importer... ammmm... :)
Am sure you know what am thinking...  ;D
As soon as it stops crashing here and there, the importer is yours ;)

O boy you made my day... week.. month.. so on...  ;D

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on September 06, 2012, 06:13:25 am
Wow! Amazing! Can't wait to import some models!

Just a few questions though, will you continue to provide built in spawn-able vehicles or will there be a site where users can share them (much like a lot of other sandbox games such as Garry's Mod)

Also, when multi-player is added, will the client have to download all the models the server is using if the server is using custom models?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 06:47:27 am
We aren't going to host the public models because of the legal issues, and we don't plan to make a site for sharing them, but Outerra servers will function as trackers for the models. That means when someone imports a vehicle, it gets a unique identifier and a record about it can be uploaded to the server (must be if he means to use it in multiplayer). The record will contain the information needed to display some basic info about the vehicle like the name, a thumbnail image, a bounding box or bounding geometry, together with a user-provided link where the model can be downloaded.

If you encounter someone in a vehicle for what you don't have a model (and you would see just a labeled bounding geometry in the game), it can be downloaded automatically for you as long as the model file is reachable and can be downloaded. It would be best to support some services that enable anyone to put their models somewhere, for example the Google Drive. So in theory, when uploading the model info it could ask you if it should be uploaded to one of the supported hosting services, or you would provide a link to it. However, since the hosting usually requires an user interaction (clicking on the link), a web window would pop up if the file cannot be downloaded directly.

We are going to have a special extension for the compressed package files, and in our internal browser there will be an automatic url handler, meaning that if you click on a link pointing to a download of the package file, the engine would recognize it automatically and install the model(s) for you.
It also opens the possibility for someone to make a sharing site where people could put up their models, and the site could be either browsed from within the engine through its internal browser or through an external one, launching OT to install the models when an OT package file was downloaded.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Bartolomeus on September 06, 2012, 06:53:55 am
This is very interesting. Thank you for the explanation Cameni!

Marko
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 07:22:07 am
Where it belongs:

(http://i.minus.com/jbmoHrVjYHJ5XV.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbmoHrVjYHJ5XV)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 08:51:53 am
naaa... That's not where it belongs...
It belongs in my driveway...  ;D

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Steve.Wilson on September 06, 2012, 09:17:35 am
Need to be able to bank the roads.  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 09:29:14 am
Need to be able to bank the roads.  :)
Already there (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=331.msg3852#msg3852)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Foxiol on September 06, 2012, 09:57:33 am
Amazing job Cameni. Waiting till we can try it.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 06, 2012, 10:02:28 am
There I go ruining all the surprises.. Well Cats and Bags don't mix and it has been too quiet lately anyway. Everything needs a little BUZZZZZZZ>..
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Steve.Wilson on September 06, 2012, 12:10:27 pm
Need to be able to bank the roads.  :)
Already there (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=331.msg3852#msg3852)

Cool.  Need to model Nürburgring then...  :D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on September 06, 2012, 01:15:33 pm
If you encounter someone in a vehicle for what you don't have a model (and you would see just a labeled bounding geometry in the game), it can be downloaded automatically for you as long as the model file is reachable and can be downloaded. It would be best to support some services that enable anyone to put their models somewhere, for example the Google Drive. So in theory, when uploading the model info it could ask you if it should be uploaded to one of the supported hosting services, or you would provide a link to it. However, since the hosting usually requires an user interaction (clicking on the link), a web window would pop up if the file cannot be downloaded directly.

We are going to have a special extension for the compressed package files, and in our internal browser there will be an automatic url handler, meaning that if you click on a link pointing to a download of the package file, the engine would recognize it automatically and install the model(s) for you.
It also opens the possibility for someone to make a sharing site where people could put up their models, and the site could be either browsed from within the engine through its internal browser or through an external one, launching OT to install the models when an OT package file was downloaded.

So say I join a game where people have been building their cities and have their own custom vehicles ect, at first, I'll see a mass of labelled bounding boxes and will have to download each and every model via an alternate site (ie SkyDrive). That's cool, but how would it work if there were thousands of custom models?

My point is, there's a game called Garry's Mod, not sure if anyone here's heard of it but it's a sandbox game that allows you to import models and a bit of Lua code so that you can have custom cars ect, but say for example I joined a server where the owner had a load of custom models, my game would begin downloading those models, pieces of code ect so that I could see and interact with them when I join the game. Wouldn't it be easier to have a system like that?

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 06, 2012, 01:55:52 pm
I joined a server where the owner had a load of custom models, my game would begin downloading those models, pieces of code ect so that I could see and interact with them when I join the game. Wouldn't it be easier to have a system like that?

Well the difference between Outerra and Garrys mod is Gmod is a 2sq/km map and Outerra is the earth. So odds are unless you plan on just being next to someone from the get-go you won't need the model house on the top on everest and the farm in kansas and the pizzeria in Brazil. Only when you approach these items should they download AUTOMATICALLY.. and if there is a problem you will get an error. The bounding box should only be there if the model fails to load BUT unlike garrys mod instead of a huge error you will still see the models collision with a default texture so you aren't left guessing what it is.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 02:33:10 pm
say for example I joined a server where the owner had a load of custom models, my game would begin downloading those models, pieces of code ect so that I could see and interact with them when I join the game. Wouldn't it be easier to have a system like that?
The problem is not so much technical but a legal one. If you are going to provide your own servers hosting the data, that would hand them out on demand for direct download, then it will work the way you have described. And when some lawyers come saying that we need to remove this and that, we are safe because we are not hosting the content, and we don't have even to deal with it.

However, filling the whole world with content is not a trivial task, chances are that you will be rather participating with all users on building a single world. That means multiple data providers, but as long as the data are directly accessible it will all run on the background.

The global system is suitable for a commercial use for simulators; if a company wants to sell it's aircraft or scenery models (and customers are willing to pay for them) then it would work flawlessly, buying directly from within the app, with possibility to be served from our servers. Allowing anyone to provide their own content this way is only a logical step, allowing for freeware content and mods, but the problem with freeware stuff is that it's often hosted on various free hosting sites that don't allow direct downloading.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 03:15:06 pm
So then if I read this right if I host stuff for download at my site and then host a server allowing all the stock things in the sim as well as the stuff I host for download at my site then all will be ok?, let me ask this, will I be able to host a game on a very strong home PC with a very strong intranet connection like I do now with other games?

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: FeedMeCheese on September 06, 2012, 03:45:22 pm
Hmm sounds fair enough, however I don't think the content would need to be hosted by you.

The thing is, on that Garry's Mod game I mentioned, say if I wanted to set up a server and I wanted to have a car on it that no-one else would have (say for instance I made it myself), I add that car to my server's "addon" folder and anyone who joins my server will be download that file straight from my server. I think that may be the easiest way as I'm not sure if every server owner would manually upload each model they have to a file-sharing website or their own. Plus with the likelihood of bad/dead links it may be rather annoying.

Also, if other players on a server have their own models, maybe every other player on the server can download the files, that way it wouldn't be as tasking on the host's end and the uploading and downloading would be spread between the players.

Basically my point is, it might be easier to have some sort of models folder for each individual and the files they put in there will be given out to every other player in the server, that way there is no trouble of going to external websites and downloading 1000's of files. Also, the only stress on internet connection is shared between players, not solely dumped on you.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 03:55:15 pm
So then if I read this right if I host stuff for download at my site and then host a server allowing all the stock things in the sim as well as the stuff I host for download at my site then all will be ok?, let me ask this, will I be able to host a game on a very strong home PC with a very strong intranet connection like I do now with other games?
What I wrote above is meant for the global world simulator platform, technically a game mode of Anteworld. I believe what you are asking about is your game that you mean to develop, right? Things are mixing up a bit here.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 04:00:04 pm
No am talking a stock game mode of Anteworld allowing stuff I have for download to be played on a stock game, and will I be able to host a stock game allowing them things on a very strong home PC with a very strong intranet connection like I do now with other games?

Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 04:08:12 pm
I will give you a example, lets say I make a MIG 15 and a F86 and I then host a stock game mode of Anteworld and allow them two planes as well as all the stock vehicles to be play in it, will that be able to be done? and will I be able to host a stock game allowing them things on a very strong home PC with a very strong intranet connection like I do now with other games?


Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: cameni on September 06, 2012, 04:23:16 pm
The thing is, on that Garry's Mod game I mentioned, say if I wanted to set up a server and I wanted to have a car on it that no-one else would have (say for instance I made it myself), I add that car to my server's "addon" folder and anyone who joins my server will be download that file straight from my server. I think that may be the easiest way as I'm not sure if every server owner would manually upload each model they have to a file-sharing website or their own. Plus with the likelihood of bad/dead links it may be rather annoying.
But when you say that you will put it on your server and make available for download, why - that's the same thing I was saying - as long as the data can be downloaded directly from somewhere, it should work transparently.

No am talking a stock game mode of Anteworld allowing stuff I have for download to be played on a stock game, and will I be able to host a stock game allowing them things on a very strong home PC with a very strong intranet connection like I do now with other games?
Hmm, what is a stock game. The global game where you are going to claim the land and build stuff, with some economy simulation and transport etc, that one requires cloud server infrastructure, you will not be able to host it yourself.

But a multiplayer server running on a snapshot of the world, that will be possible to host. Like, a multiplayer game with groups of players fighting against each other in the world in some state.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 06, 2012, 04:33:15 pm
I don't know about sharing inside the engine.. but it might work the same way.Here's how I will do it, every user will have an account and each account except their models, they will have like 10-20MB's of space where they can share models once in a while.And the legal part... I will just make the legal terms when they accept the license sound something like this... If the user wishes to upload and share 3D models trough that option, all the models will be considered as a donation to the game and company itself, and all the legal users inside or belonging to the company or game will have access if the owner of the model approved the upload.In case the copyright infringement is broken and the user does not have proof of owning the intellectual property, the 3D model will be removed from the upload or from the content of the game.

And of course.. user banned a few days probably.But there might be other problems... if the accuser demands the identity of the user and wants to sue him.But of course you probably can have a rule in the license for protecting that as well.But if he does't know who to sue?Dunno... just make sure it is in such way that you are not at fault that the user pirated that model.Or you can just give the user's identity, cause some rules must be rules.. probably  :).


And the part where sharing inside the engine... dunno if the engine is multiplayer and like 20 developers can connect to a project and work in the same time in different places that would be great as well and supposedly allowed to share their 3D models somehow.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Deutschmark on September 06, 2012, 04:38:33 pm
From cameni;
But when you say that you will put it on your server and make available for download, why - that's the same thing I was saying - as long as the data can be downloaded directly from somewhere, it should work transparently.

So then if I host lets say my planes that I would like people to be able to use in stock game mode of Anteworld and so long as the downloads for them are accessible to all with out haveing to long in to my site then it should work right? 


From cameni;
But a multiplayer server running on a snapshot of the world, that will be possible to host. Like, a multiplayer game with groups of players fighting against each other in the world in some state.

Ok this is something that I would be very interested in.


Deutschmark
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 06, 2012, 04:43:14 pm

Hmm, what is a stock game. The global game where you are going to claim the land and build stuff, with some economy simulation and transport etc, that one requires cloud server infrastructure, you will not be able to host it yourself.


Do you think it would be possible to host the same thing on multiple servers without any kind of shifting , loading state between zones?

Or if I want something like this I need to order a custom made server with 60 CPU slots of 4-8 Cores each , like 2TB of Ram and like probably 200-300TB of HDD?
Cause if there are people who want to start with lets say 500-1000 people and in time reach 200-300.000 people.. or a few million.. they could settle up multiple servers to work on the same world.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Midviki on September 06, 2012, 04:48:59 pm
And for example if it's a MMO game that takes place only in one single world... and for people that want to start small with something home-made server not something worth over 10.000$ invested in a server.

And as well for people of different latency all around the world, they would want to pick a closer server to them but to be in the same world... but that's not really the point.. soon we will have 1GB/mbps internet, from what I know Google already started this project in New York.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Steve.Wilson on September 06, 2012, 10:54:17 pm
Are we not getting ahead of ourselves?  We don't have biomes, vehicle importers or the sim SDK just yet. :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 06, 2012, 11:27:02 pm
The further ahead we get the easier it will be to sort problems at this early stage.

My answer for legal issues... Play interstate76. Want to drive a Plymouth Barracuda? Sorry all we have is this "Picard Piranha" .. Want an old jeep? Too bad.  '73 Bushmaster is all we have.

That is all it would take.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 06, 2012, 11:45:27 pm
Oh.. The next things that needs to be imported..

http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/dnm/model_disp.php?uid=3461&count=count (http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/dnm/model_disp.php?uid=3461&count=count)

http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/dnm/model_disp.php?uid=150&count=count (http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/dnm/model_disp.php?uid=150&count=count)

{I need to shoot something}
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Steve.Wilson on September 07, 2012, 12:59:30 am
One comparison I can make with the X-Plane community. Take a look at the X-Plane.org download section.  Gazillions of free aircraft, done by users.  While copyright issues and legal matters abound, the bottom line is that if people want to see their stuff used by others, it has to be free and freely available.  So "free-dom" would have to prevail in the world multi-player environment.  Want to keep your toys to yourself?  Play with them by yourself. ;)  Alternatively, any payware vehicle has to have a free component that can be freely shared so that everyone can at least see it.  Make it a requirement that has to be met before the payware is made available for all to purchase. 

Zeos, you do have a point - early discussion of big problems early means they're small right now.  I just don't see how Brano does all the stuff on the forum and still has time to code and troubleshoot Outerra/Anteworld.  And does the dude have a "real job" too?  And a family?  Whew....big load that would be.  8)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 07, 2012, 01:22:57 am
I think this is pretty much his only job (other than feeding the pig occasionally). Grants from government agencies wasting our taxpayer dollars no doubt.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 09, 2012, 12:32:44 am
Next imported model test please... http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/vehicles/dodge_challenger_1971/13-1-0-264 (http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/vehicles/dodge_challenger_1971/13-1-0-264)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3230
Post by: Steve.Wilson on September 09, 2012, 02:17:43 am
You gents certainly have good taste in automobiles!  :D

I'm looking forward to learning the nuts and bolts of the transition from 3D to Collada to Anteworld.

Have fun...as if you weren't!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 11, 2012, 10:26:58 am
Version 0.7.12.3275
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Abc94 on September 11, 2012, 10:36:52 am
Alright!  Time to fire up Blender!  8)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 12, 2012, 10:41:50 pm
I am not an expert.. But this seems off..

http://i.minus.com/ibblUnKZCHMPO.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ibblUnKZCHMPO.jpg)

http://i.minus.com/iC4S5mnCwqjJy.jpg (http://i.minus.com/iC4S5mnCwqjJy.jpg)

http://i.minus.com/ibs5fAJpCDd9Oq.jpg (http://i.minus.com/ibs5fAJpCDd9Oq.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: CheckMyMoves on September 13, 2012, 03:32:30 pm
Nice, too bad I have 3DS Max 2013 which OpenC does not work for.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1240/091220231568.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Midviki on September 15, 2012, 07:36:30 am
Is there an On / Off switch for the UFO shadow? When I want to make a closeup its making shade on my wood and I can't see how it would look with the lighting properly.

- http://midviki.minus.com/lzq5mYEZ6h8h7 (http://midviki.minus.com/lzq5mYEZ6h8h7)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 15, 2012, 07:42:28 am
That's not a UFO shadow, there's no such thing. It's a problem of long polygons and the logarithmic depth buffer we need to use for rendering. We have a couple of solutions, none of which is ideal though.

Anyway, you can help it by tesselating the model better, so that there are no triangle edges longer than say 0.5m.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Deutschmark on September 15, 2012, 08:03:02 am
That's not a UFO shadow, there's no such thing

(http://allaircraftsimulations.com/RUSAT.jpg)

Are you sure about that... ;D

Deutschmark  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 15, 2012, 06:51:16 pm
When I run the test build 3212 it crashes at startup, the regular build works fine.

Here's the eng.log:

Code: [Select]
INFO: Outerra 0.7.12, build 3212 from Tue, 7 Aug 2012 09:43:26 GMT
INFO: Initializing engine...
INFO: data root directory: DATA\
INFO: Windows version: 5.1.2600
INFO: CPU info:
CPU string: AuthenticAMD
CPU brand string: AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 640 Processor
Stepping ID: 3
Model: 5
Family: 15
Processor type: 0
Extended model: 0
Extended family: 1
Brand Index: 0
CLFLUSH cache line size: 64
APIC Physical ID: 0

INFO: GPU System info
    Graphics card: ATI Radeon HD 5570
    GPU vendor ID: 1002 (ATI Technologies Inc.)
    GPU device ID: 68d9
    OpenGL driver version: 6.14.10.11762 (atioglxx.dll)
    OpenGL driver build number: 11762


INFO: Reading DATA\eng.cfg
INFO: saving eng.cfg
INFO:   init timer to 1ms
INFO: Outerra window created size 1286x752
INFO: Starting JobMaster...
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 0
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 1
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 2
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 3
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 4
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 5
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 6
INFO: Creating JobMaster thread 7
INFO: Event "reverse" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "reverse" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "steer_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "steer_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "accelerate" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "accelerate" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "steer_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "steer_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "elevator_up" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "rudder_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "flaps_down" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "flaps_up" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "elevator_down" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "pause_simulation" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "brake" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "rudder_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "aileron_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "start_stop_engine" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "aileron_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "trim" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "cyclic_longitudal_back" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "toggle_hover_mode" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "cyclic_lateral_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "anti_torque_right" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "cyclic_longitudal_forward" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "cyclic_lateral_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
INFO: Event "anti_torque_left" already defined, overriding with latest definition.
ERROR: Cannot find requested event "global/issuetracker"!
DEBUG: (io_man) event group "player" has been activated...
INFO: Available display modes:
    640x480@60 default
    - edit -
    1920x1080@60 default

INFO:
Available Capture Devices are:-
Realtek HD Audio Input via WaveIn

INFO: Sound system information
    Using OpenAL device (DirectSound Default)
    Using OpenAL capture device (Realtek HD Audio Input via WaveIn)
    ALC_FREQUENCY: 44100
    ALC_REFRESH: 43
    ALC_SYNC: 0
    ALC_MONO_SOURCES: 255
    ALC_STEREO_SOURCES: 1


INFO: SetFileCompletionNotificationModes not present
INFO: Loaded modules:
D:\GAMES\Outerra\Anteworld_TEST\outerra.exe (Outerra s.r.o, Anteworld), version .   
D:\GAMES\Outerra\Anteworld_TEST\CrashRpt.dll (Unknown Company, CrashRpt), version 1.2.0.10
D:\GAMES\Outerra\Anteworld_TEST\c4e.dll (Unknown Company, Unknown Product), version unknown
D:\GAMES\Outerra\Anteworld_TEST\OpenAL32.dll (Unknown Company, Unknown Product), version unknown

INFO: renderer: thread started...
INFO: Searching suitable pixel format...
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 23ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 28ms
INFO: Pixel format has been found: 3
INFO: Setting pixel format
INFO: Creating temporary OpenGL rendering context
INFO: Setting temporary rendering context as current
INFO: Creating main OpenGL rendering context
INFO: Setting main rendering context as current
INFO: OpenGL renderer information
    vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    renderer: ATI Radeon HD 5570
    version: 3.3.11762 Core Profile Context
    glsl: 4.20
    Total available GPU memory: 1024 MB
    Current available GPU memory: 996 MB
    MAX_UNIFORM_BLOCK_SIZE: 65536
    MAX_VERTEX_UNIFORM_BLOCKS: 15
    MAX_GEOMETRY_UNIFORM_BLOCKS: 15
    MAX_FRAGMENT_UNIFORM_BLOCKS: 15
    UNIFORM_BUFFER_OFFSET_ALIGNMENT: 256
    MAX_UNIFORM_BUFFER_BINDINGS: 75
    MAX_TEXTURE_BUFFER_SIZE: 268435456
    MAX_DRAW_BUFFERS: 8
    MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
    MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 8192
    MAX_ARRAY_TEXTURE_LAYERS: 8192
    MAX_ELEMENTS_INDICES: 16777215
    MAX_ELEMENTS_VERTICES: 2147483647
    Number of OpenGL extensions: 216
      GL_AMDX_debug_output
     - edit -
      GL_WIN_swap_hint
      WGL_EXT_swap_control

    WGL extensions:
WGL_ARB_extensions_string WGL_ARB_pixel_format WGL_ATI_pixel_format_float WGL_ARB_pixel_format_float WGL_ARB_multisample WGL_EXT_swap_control WGL_ARB_pbuffer WGL_ARB_render_texture WGL_ARB_make_current_read WGL_EXT_extensions_string WGL_ARB_buffer_region WGL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB WGL_ATI_render_texture_rectangle WGL_EXT_pixel_format_packed_float WGL_I3D_genlock WGL_NV_swap_group WGL_ARB_create_context WGL_AMD_gpu_association WGL_AMDX_gpu_association WGL_ARB_create_context_profile WGL_NV_float_buffer

INFO: Buffer created (1) 'dummy_ati' size 256KB
INFO: Buffer created (2) 'renderer_vtx_vbo' size 48KB
INFO: renderer: OpenGL initialized...
INFO: creating window manager...
INFO: (WM) Loading font "ui/default.fnt...
INFO: (WM) Loading font "ui/default_mono.fnt...
INFO: (WM) Loading font "ui/default_bold.fnt...
DEBUG: Loading texture ("ui/default_0.dds")...
DEBUG: Loading texture ("ui/default_mono_0.dds")...
DEBUG: Loading texture ("ui/default_bold_0.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 32ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 34ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 44ms
INFO: preloading D:\GAMES\Outerra\Anteworld_TEST\precomp.lst
INFO: Reading DATA\world.cfg
INFO: saving world.cfg
INFO: Initializing worldview ...
INFO: (WM) Loading font "ui/hud.fnt...
DEBUG: (io_man) event group "ufo" has been activated...
INFO: Starting main loop...
INFO: Buffer created (3) 'pkg::instances' size 896KB
INFO: Buffer created (4) 'pkg bboxes' size 512KB
INFO: Buffer created (5) 'mpr.road' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (6) 'mpr.road' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (7) 'mpr.road' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (8) 'mpr.stars' size 2084KB
INFO: Buffer created (9) 'mpr.aux' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (10) 'mpr.aux' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (11) 'mpr.aux' size 88KB
INFO: Buffer created (12) 'mpr.aux' size 76KB
INFO: Buffer created (13) 'mpr.aux' size 19KB
INFO: Buffer created (14) 'mpr.aux' size 1584KB
INFO: Buffer created (15) 'ub.frac_params' size 1KB
INFO: Buffer created (16) 'texture_widget' size 18KB
INFO: Initializing framebuffer
size: 1280x720
fulscreen: 0
msaa: 1
swap_interval: 0
INFO: Buffer created (17) 'buffer framebuffer' size 900KB
INFO: creating another buffer for capture
INFO: Buffer created (18) 'buffer framebuffer' size 900KB
INFO: creating another buffer for capture
INFO: Buffer created (19) 'buffer framebuffer' size 900KB
INFO: creating another buffer for capture
INFO: Buffer created (20) 'buffer framebuffer' size 900KB
INFO: creating another buffer for capture
INFO: Creating render state groups...
INFO: Buffer created (21) 'tr_lods_buf' size 64KB
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 43ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 54ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 66ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 80ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 91ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 99ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 109ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 119ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 128ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 138ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 148ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 158ms
DEBUG: Loading texture ("textures/AustrianPine.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 168ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 181ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 205ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 224ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 230ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 238ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 314ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 314ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 412ms
INFO: (c4e) fasf
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 480ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 489ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 502ms
INFO: Buffer created (22) 'ui_buffer' size 320KB
INFO: Buffer created (23) 'ui_tex_buf' size 8100KB
INFO: Buffer created (24) 'sbox index' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (25) 'sbox bboxes' size 272KB
INFO: Buffer created (26) 'mesh inst' size 256KB
INFO: Buffer created (27) 'static inst' size 3584KB
INFO: Buffer created (28) 'pkg mesh data' size 3072KB
INFO: Buffer created (29) 'obj inst' size 1536KB
INFO: Buffer created (30) 'pkg bones' size 1024KB
INFO: Buffer created (31) 'pkg bboxes' size 512KB
INFO: Buffer created (32) 'ub.gpu_frame_state' size 1KB
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 584ms
INFO: shader s0CF569C31C2FB1FF402B855A911817DE5462D419 compiled succesfully
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 621ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 679ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 684ms
INFO: shader s3B2E8FCD6074C9DEE852132187655405B21187E0 compiled succesfully
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 701ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 703ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 710ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 751ms
DEBUG: job "sndfile_load_task" processed in 764ms
DEBUG: Loading texture ("ui/hud_0.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 785ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 794ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 802ms
DEBUG: Loading texture ("textures\default_diffuse.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 262ms
DEBUG: Loading texture ("textures\default_normal.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 812ms
DEBUG: Loading texture ("textures\default_opacity.dds")...
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 272ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 288ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_loader_job" processed in 831ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 843ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 851ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 861ms
DEBUG: job "tex2d_slice_loader_job" processed in 871ms
INFO: shader sD3A383732BC2BEB51B8A3A4CAAEA74D9C44D0669 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader sA3E3B7FF75ECCF75FD4C29D60E64C33F0043338B compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s1AB429DCD3B93FA828B95B3E9992353C0F18F559 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s638187552F6A667019CE5B52851E84132B2D5DD6 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader sEE5EFE93E09F81EB5E855C4B42C02846773C133D compiled succesfully
INFO: shader sF518B87DAEF20C39F037C6B0F431FB85E024560A compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s9103C6407E2080545F6124BF7F52E19D06FE8E2F compiled succesfully
INFO: shader sCF928185D510039F524BBEC5C926E75BD2109DBB compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s6B5AC4EDF9976679C7B981B9E2865F6E8BE43E37 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s4CD3748C9790DDDBB99B228640A6B49A299A893A compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s66E11D721ED13D0696B3C65FBAC7A5A9C82E8D64 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s0CF569C31C2FB1FF402B855A911817DE5462D419 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s739581B07DB459FD735D3E51DA8734238B10C04B compiled succesfully
INFO: Buffer created (33) 'texture_widget' size 150KB
INFO: Buffer created (34) 'texture_widget' size 1250KB
INFO: shader sEFBE127F990877C0BA52EB922647F0A8C1CA1B52 compiled succesfully
INFO: shader sF667327894CF465173DAAE2AD9E3A0CDBA4615EC compiled succesfully
INFO: shader s44CE61ED48CBC0EC7C7D1842AF12BAA2AEC32A6A compiled succesfully
INFO: Buffer created (35) 'ui_buffer' size 320KB
INFO: Buffer created (36) 'ui_tex_buf' size 8100KB
INFO: Buffer created (37) 'sbox index' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (38) 'sbox bboxes' size 272KB
INFO: Buffer created (39) 'obj inst' size 1536KB
INFO: Buffer created (40) 'pkg bones' size 1024KB
INFO: Buffer created (41) 'pkg bboxes' size 512KB
INFO: Buffer created (42) 'ub.gpu_frame_state' size 1KB
INFO: Buffer created (43) 'ui_buffer' size 320KB
INFO: Buffer created (44) 'ui_tex_buf' size 8100KB
INFO: Buffer created (45) 'sbox index' size 0KB
INFO: Buffer created (46) 'sbox bboxes' size 272KB
INFO: Buffer created (47) 'obj inst' size 1536KB
INFO: Buffer created (48) 'pkg bones' size 1024KB
INFO: Buffer created (49) 'pkg bboxes' size 512KB
INFO: Buffer created (50) 'ub.gpu_frame_state' size 1KB
INFO: Buffer created (51) 'ui_buffer' size 320KB
INFO: Buffer created (52) 'ui_tex_buf' size 8100KB
INFO: Buffer created (53) 'sbox index' size 0KB

Can anyone help?

I'm really interested in trying the model importer but I'm hesitant to pay to register if I can't actually run the software.

Thanks in advance.  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 02:12:57 am
Does it crash without bringing up the crash report window (a driver crash?). Do you have crash.log there? (note it would be in your home\outerra folder regardless of your outerra data path).
Did you install it to different directories than the previous build?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 03:11:30 am
It shows the crash report window just after the splash screen appears. (I just submitted the report again and mentioned my forum name "RadicalEdward")

It doesn't seem to be saving the crash.log anywhere, I'm running on 32bit WinXP with ATI card.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 03:55:12 am
Hmm crashes on allocating a small buffer in OpenGL, after allocating a handful of similar buffers before it. Possibly could have something to do with Win XP and different driver behavior.

Will try to add some diagnostics or workarounds there for the next patch.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Midviki on September 16, 2012, 10:02:16 am
You probably know this... but most of you probably know it anyway.Some times, depending on the object and how deep you stick it in the ground, or how much you use the tools or where the mouse cursor is.For example I was sticking a pole in the ground by using the V key option then I wanted to move it a bit more.. like 1 centimeter and I used the Shift+M option. And it disappeared. :D poof !!! ;D ...But it actually was like a few hundred meters away from the point I actually wanted to spawn it.

But I also saw that not all the options do this thing... for example the V option for moving Up and Down, doesn't move the object at all out of place, and not haywire like the Shift+M option.

And I figured it out why this happened! When I went to stick in to the ground... the pole was kinda long! so objects are moved from the base.... and the base of the object was deep under the ground, so when I move the object I was in an horizontal angle somehow and it moved the object where my mouse cursor was.That means under the ground over like 2-3 hills.

But I was thinking if you can make somehow so we can move the objects in a more controllable manner.Or have like a safety key after we click V , Shift+M , M , O .. etc. Or maybe just adjusting the speed of the moving option.Or in my case have the possibility to move the base of the object or reverse it, make the bottom be the top.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 01:36:01 pm
Hmm crashes on allocating a small buffer in OpenGL, after allocating a handful of similar buffers before it. Possibly could have something to do with Win XP and different driver behavior.

Will try to add some diagnostics or workarounds there for the next patch.

Will a patch help in this case as I can't get the base test version (3212) to run and update to the latest version as it is?

Does the fact that I can run the non-test build (3100) ok help at all? I assume it's some change between then and 3212 that has caused the issue.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 01:55:50 pm
The place where the driver returns an invalid value should work normally, seems it could be a driver bug on XP. But a workaround is possible, as that code can be done differently without any harm. It will be in the next patch, which you'll have to apply manually.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 02:00:41 pm
Thanks Cameni, appreciate you looking into this. :)

Is it possible to apply patches manually right now so I can try the very latest build with the importer?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 02:03:05 pm
Yes you can download the latest patch here: Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3275.exe (http://outerraworld.com/appdata/Anteworld/Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3275.exe)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 02:10:24 pm
Thanks Cameni

Just gave it a try and get the same result unfortunately, I submitted the crash report with my username included.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 04:04:47 pm
Patch 0.7.12.3280

Manual patch here Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3280.exe (http://outerraworld.com/appdata/Anteworld/Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3280.exe)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 04:41:33 pm
Hi Cameni

Thanks for the quick update!

Unfortunately I'm still having problems but it's a different error now. I get the attached exception error pop up then Outerra closes without the crash reporter appearing.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 04:59:46 pm
That's diagnostics I added there together with the change, so that it doesn't crash in an unhandled way.

Hmm, could you edit eng.cfg and set debug_mode = true there? eng.log should then provide more info about what's wrong. Also, does the 3100 version work for you now, with current drivers? If you used the same data dir, you'll have to delete eng.cfg and world.cfg first.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 05:17:19 pm
3100 still works, I'm using the latest ATI drivers.

Data dir is different from the standard build.

I enabled debug mode and have attached the eng.log
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2012, 05:42:04 pm
ERROR: (DRV): glMapBufferRange failed because there was not enough available memory to complete the operation (GL_OUT_OF_MEMORY)

Given that it tries to allocate a 1MB memory block (and the card has 1GB), it seems to be a driver bug or some odd driver/OS limitation. I'll ask ATI guys if there's something that could cause this with XP.

Btw how much CPU memory have you got?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 16, 2012, 05:52:46 pm
4BG installed but as it's 32bit XP it only uses up to 3.25GB
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Midviki on September 17, 2012, 11:11:39 am
That's not a UFO shadow, there's no such thing. It's a problem of long polygons and the logarithmic depth buffer we need to use for rendering. We have a couple of solutions, none of which is ideal though.

Anyway, you can help it by tesselating the model better, so that there are no triangle edges longer than say 0.5m.

I call bs... I mean a tank with thousands of polygons and like 11k meshes doesent have a problem... and if I have an object with 100-200 polys and one of its polygon has 0.51m it will affect even the ones that have under 0.5... I mean I was looking at something with 0.2m and that shadow thingy pop'd up again... I was so furious  >:(.
So basically I would need to increase the iterations for all polys to be less than 0.5.

I mean you can see in what direction the sun is making things shade and look at those ugly shadows from nowhere :
 (http://i.minus.com/jhpadT6YJQu34.png) (http://minus.com/lhpadT6YJQu34)

The point that I'm making, do you think this issue will be solved in 3-4 years by the engine? ( and by that I mean the programmers of Outerra )
Cause I would really prefer if I can make as much as I can a low poly environment and invest more polygons in to the NPC's , characters , and other customisations that need detail and the player stares at them a longer time, then a piece of tree, building and any other material that can be made out of just a few polys.

So what do you think?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 17, 2012, 11:29:39 am
Hey, no need to have your blood boiling over one of many temporary issues with the engine. Of course it will be fixed, and sooner than later. I was saying we already have solutions for it that aren't ideal (with a slight overhead, or with small depth imprecisions; ideal would be if there was support for logarithmic depth buffers in hardware), but still working.

The reason why we didn't hurry to implement it is because we are still trying to come up with a better algorithm that would be able to suppress the issue in a more effective manner, and it takes some time until all pieces come together.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: Midviki on September 17, 2012, 11:36:58 am
Sorry if I sounded blood boiled  ;D , I was just worried.And thanks for the fast reply and the assurance that I would not need all the time to keep track of pieces of the model going over 0.5  ::) or even remake models or textures just to be fit with an issue that will be solved in time.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: saccara18 on September 17, 2012, 01:06:28 pm
i´ve get a new update, but i dosen´t find somthing about it
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 17, 2012, 02:04:43 pm
Just a small fix, wrote about it on the previous page (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14546#msg14546). Added to the first post now.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: saccara18 on September 17, 2012, 02:27:23 pm
thanks for information
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3275
Post by: cameni on September 17, 2012, 04:33:33 pm
4BG installed but as it's 32bit XP it only uses up to 3.25GB
So I've received reply that the error can be because of low available non-paged memory from Windows. XP have limit of 256MB (in Vista+ it's dynamic), and if there are faulty drivers (other than the graphics ones) they could consume extra np memory or leak it, so that there's too little of it left for Outerra. Updating the other drivers (sound, networking ...) could help. Other apps running on the background locking the memory could be the problem as well.

There's a selectable NP pool column in windows task manager, showing sizes of non-paged memory allocated by individual processes, but not all of the used non-paged memory is shown there.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 17, 2012, 06:54:08 pm
Here's a screenshot showing the amount of Non Paged memory at the time of the exception, is it showing the amount allocated or free?

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 17, 2012, 07:07:19 pm
Just tried after a clean boot, Task Manager was showing about 19500 NP memory, still got the exception.

I think all my drivers are up to date so not sure what else I can do, I still think it's a recent change in Outerra as the release build works ok.

I've attached a screenshot of Taskmanager with the release build running as a comparison.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 18, 2012, 01:12:36 am
Well yes, it's definitely change in the new development branch and reworked object rendering pipeline that's causing it, but it's an essential part of it. It's where it maps a 1MB buffer of object instance data to be filled up.

It still can be a driver problem, but the reply I received said that the amount of np memory available to the driver may have been limited by some OS modification or a tuning program, because mapping a 1MB chunk should be no problem normally. Unless the requests for np memory got accumulated in OT over a couple of cached frames and that breached the limit ... we will add a counter and a statistics there.

Found something at Steam, although talking about paged pool: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5034-EIPV-6426
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: RadicalEdward on September 18, 2012, 12:37:29 pm
Thanks for the link Cameni, I tried the suggestions listed there but still having the problem, I guess I'll wait until you add some more diagnostics then give it another try.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Midviki on September 19, 2012, 06:23:56 pm
File path too long makes the texture on the object to go black or a grey-back ... or the name of the file too long.But I think it does this only if you export it in a long file/folder path it does this.I think if you save it on a shorter path it works, I'l try this like in a hour and confirm what exactly makes the texture disappear.But now.. time for break!my head hurts of making textures and models all day!I'l do more testing in 1 hour or so and give an update on the issue.

(http://i.minus.com/jb1xE60OCp5HWU.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb1xE60OCp5HWU)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Midviki on September 19, 2012, 07:45:09 pm
I managed to solve my issue... oddly as It seems.I tried multiple things, but what seems to have been the problem was the .DDS texture name.
Ha?... yep.. I haven't quite understand what was wrong, maybe it was something else.But what I did was saved the .DDS file with another name, then applied it on the object in 3ds max again, exported it again but in a shorter path than the previous one.And ye... till I didn't deleted the folders of the same older file that I was trying to import It didn't worked, ye and if you get it wrong and you get a black texture, make sure to delete it before replacing it.Some times it seems to pick up the older one.Ye... and don't try changing the name of the .DDS file after saving it from photo-shop or the name of the 3D model after you exported it, that's bad!Doesn't work as well.

If any other light on this matter, please share.Maybe its something else.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: seppen on September 20, 2012, 07:07:00 am
File path too long makes the texture on the object to go black or a grey-back ... or the name of the file too long.But I think it does this only if you export it in a long file/folder path it does this.I think if you save it on a shorter path it works, I'l try this like in a hour and confirm what exactly makes the texture disappear.But now.. time for break!my head hurts of making textures and models all day!I'l do more testing in 1 hour or so and give an update on the issue.

(http://i.minus.com/jb1xE60OCp5HWU.jpg) (http://minus.com/lb1xE60OCp5HWU)

Thank´s for that tip(will try it out), I managed to import a 100mb model with 73 materials, and loads of textures, but got black areas and messed up uv´s too.

Renameing the long texturenames is possible when export I think.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Midviki on September 20, 2012, 07:42:54 am

Thank´s for that tip(will try it out), I managed to import a 100mb model with 73 materials, and loads of textures, but got black areas and messed up uv´s too.

Renameing the long texturenames is possible when export I think.

Hmmm... if the problem is only on some parts, it might not be the same problem, try a different kind of unwrapping of the model. In 3DS Max as I work, there are multiple methods of mapping.And you should try marking your models with different colors to see if it makes the same issue.If you can see on my mini page I have some kind of pylons, and as less as you see at the surface, they have like 20 meters in height and only 1/3 visible.The point is that I painted those pylons on a 4096x4096 texture or something like that and it has like 70-100mb as well.I had problems importing it, but it was completely black.(like in the picture)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: seppen on September 20, 2012, 10:01:13 am

Thank´s for that tip(will try it out), I managed to import a 100mb model with 73 materials, and loads of textures, but got black areas and messed up uv´s too.

Renameing the long texturenames is possible when export I think.

Hmmm... if the problem is only on some parts, it might not be the same problem, try a different kind of unwrapping of the model. In 3DS Max as I work, there are multiple methods of mapping.And you should try marking your models with different colors to see if it makes the same issue.If you can see on my mini page I have some kind of pylons, and as less as you see at the surface, they have like 20 meters in height and only 1/3 visible.The point is that I painted those pylons on a 4096x4096 texture or something like that and it has like 70-100mb as well.I had problems importing it, but it was completely black.(like in the picture)

Puuh!, finally got all textures imported at scale with no blacks anywere.
But some maps´s are vertical when should be horisontal!, perhaps I need to apply a uvw modifier.

This is very promising, model is a 40mb dae, 200 000 verts 600 entities and only 7mb pkg file :) 
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 20, 2012, 01:58:40 pm
In case anyone ever wanted to know what it was like playing Outerra with a 4000 series card..

Here you go..

What it is like to play Outerra on a 4000 Series ATi Card (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPptDzOI6Ss#)

Interesting Note.. My Mic sits on the External Hard Disk that holds all my Outerra Data.. So you can hear it accessing as it loads. An interesting feature.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2012, 02:13:47 pm
Hmm. What loaded modules are reported in your eng.log? You seem to get more crashes than other 4xxxers ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: seppen on September 20, 2012, 02:15:25 pm
Lol, perhaps it´s the model, I´ll try to clean up the textured one and bring down the object count since it´s huge  :D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 20, 2012, 02:51:09 pm
Hmm. What loaded modules are reported in your eng.log? You seem to get more crashes than other 4xxxers ...

Attached.


Lol, perhaps it´s the model, I´ll try to clean up the textured one and bring down the object count since it´s huge  :D

It isn't trust me. This is the way it has been for months. Sometimes It crashed before the login screen Sometimes (rarely) I can get 30+ minutes out of it just driving up a mountain.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2012, 02:58:01 pm
Might be worth to shoot these two down and observe if it helped/changed anything:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Fraps\FRAPS32.DLL (Beepa P/L, FRAPS), version 3, 5, 5, 15172
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ctagent.DLL (Creative Technology Ltd,   ctagent), version 6.00.01.1377-2.18.6580

Even if seemingly inactive, the fact they are listed there means they are intercepting the events in OT and could affect the loop.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 20, 2012, 03:04:34 pm
Well fraps is easy enough. And I have tested with it off.. But CTAGENT is being used by pretty much every program that makes sound

(http://i.imgur.com/1F4dN.png)

It isn't listed as just another process to kill.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2012, 03:14:08 pm
CtHelper?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 20, 2012, 03:32:43 pm
That I can end.

Well.. Actually, that I can't end but can disable on startup. So next start I will give a test. I am going out.

The Software I am using to do screen capture now (faststone Capture) is likely causing an issue as when I try to capture it when OT is running I get an instant crash.. If I run the capture before the program start I can get it to stick as seen in this video

More Crashing (Possibly due to the Recording Software lol) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT7gVJUq_tY#)

I guess I would need to point a camera at my screen to really guarantee no program was affecting it.

Attaching my log from this last crash just to see if it is different. Also why does my console pop up every start? Is that normal when debug keys are enabled?

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Midviki on September 20, 2012, 05:12:15 pm
When you have a bigger object and a smaller one.Ex.: If you want for example to use small objects to decorate a house.

After you placed the smaller object inside the bigger objects box, you can't select the small one again if you didn't placed well from the begging.So if you misclickeded while you where placing that small object inside the bigger object.. you are f****d :D.You need to move all the big objects around the little one then arrange the little ones and etc.

Probably you know this already, but just making sure you'r getting feedback  ;D. Anyway I have this problem a lot, and I haven't started decorating the interiors of any castle, but there will probably be 100% problems on this matter.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 21, 2012, 01:12:33 am
Attaching my log from this last crash just to see if it is different. Also why does my console pop up every start? Is that normal when debug keys are enabled?
Ctagent is still there.
Does OT crash like that when you are not recording?

Console pops up because your iomap.cfg file is old and doesn't contain some of the newer events. If the iomap.cfg can't be found it is created from program directory's iomap.cfg.default file, but updates to the default file aren't merged with your existing iomap.cfg yet.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 21, 2012, 01:17:12 am
After you placed the smaller object inside the bigger objects box, you can't select the small one again if you didn't placed well from the begging.So if you misclickeded while you where placing that small object inside the bigger object.. you are f****d :D.You need to move all the big objects around the little one then arrange the little ones and etc.
Will need to add some heuristics and a cycling between the selected objects to determine what it is you wanted to select ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 21, 2012, 02:11:25 am
Well with fraps off and CThelper disabled on startup I had a good initial load, worked fine until the 8x8 jumped into space and the program hung.. But after that had two crashes. One a few seconds after spawning the 8x8 and the next was a video driver crash which doesn't count.

I will keep jumping in and see if it got decidedly better.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 21, 2012, 03:09:40 am
Did you manage to shut down the ctagent?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 21, 2012, 04:19:52 am
I believe so. I can't find any hooks in my processes and the eng.log contains no instances of ctagent.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: lookastdu on September 30, 2012, 02:27:22 pm
I encountered problems with water/ocean shader on Radeon 7770. I haven't seen anything about this bug before, also I haven't found anything via search on forum, so I'm posting video of this bug:
http://youtu.be/EmBHKwK6Ybk (http://youtu.be/EmBHKwK6Ybk)
Radeon 7770, Catalyst 12.8, Outerra 3280

PS. My Radeon 3870 is officially dead. :P
PS2. Could you add version 3280 to "Version" combobox on xtrac?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 30, 2012, 02:31:54 pm
Youtube: This video is private. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: lookastdu on September 30, 2012, 02:34:03 pm
Sorry, fixed. ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Chaoss on September 30, 2012, 02:38:29 pm
Any updates on any new features it's been quiet around here lately
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: Midviki on September 30, 2012, 03:16:26 pm
Those squares on the water appeared to me as well, but I was modifying the colors of the water and that's why probably happened.I reset the color back to default and it was gone."It was gone" you couldn't see it with the naked eye very easy, but if you where looking closely and paying attention those squares where still there but not as much visible as they where.

Anyway maybe in the future we can see something like this from the OT water  ;D :

- Dramatic video of Clelia II Antarctic cruise ship slammed by giant waves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbopUYg20#)

or at least some crappy waves like this:

- Sail simulator 2010 - gameplay, sea, wave, ship (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1OHHQvetbk#ws)   (it doesn't look so great because of the looped and copy+paste same repetitive exact size waves.. but at least some of those effects on ships or boats to have, or if we can control different types of waves on different zones)

Or more simple, let the users / designers to create the perfect waves by letting them to play with the 3D Vector coordinates.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: cameni on September 30, 2012, 03:50:09 pm
I encountered problems with water/ocean shader on Radeon 7770. I haven't seen anything about this bug before, also I haven't found anything via search on forum, so I'm posting video of this bug:
Hmm this was once a bug with the older ATI drivers, long ago. Seems the newest ATI line of cards is using a different driver path or something.

Quote
PS2. Could you add version 3280 to "Version" combobox on xtrac?
Done.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: lookastdu on September 30, 2012, 04:00:06 pm
Btw. few minutes ago, after start of Task Manager, I have seen 2 x outerra.exe*32 process. :D Both were "eating" 25% of CPU power (I have 4-core CPU). Yes, I was starting Outerra 2 or 3 times during current system session.
Another interesting fact: about week ago I was not able to run 3D mark 2011 tests. While I was trying to run, I was getting information about error (sorry, I don't remember what it contained, if it might be interesting to you I may try to get it again). After opening task manager, I came to conclusion that I need to kill outerra.exe process - and that helped. ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3280
Post by: zuluknob on October 02, 2012, 12:37:19 am
that bug has been around for a while now. surprised amd haven't sorted it out yet.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 09:05:26 am
Version 0.7.12.3333

Updated wiki documentation about the importer (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac/index.fcgi/wiki/Importer) and aircraft scripts (http://www.outerra.com/xtrac/index.fcgi/wiki/aircraft).

Known issues: there seems to be problems loading the Apache on 4xxx cards.
If you encounter a problem starting the new version after update, please report it and try to install the patch manually to resolve it: Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3333 (http://outerraworld.com/appdata/Anteworld/Anteworld-0.7.12.3162.patch-3333.exe)

(http://i.minus.com/j5pfII8WoaIx.jpg) (http://minus.com/l5pfII8WoaIx)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: hhrhhr on October 07, 2012, 09:26:46 am
experimental spherical/cylindrical projection, clipping is incorrect
and shadows:
bandicam 2012 10 07 17 18 31 369 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7M_CFHZUg#ws)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 09:33:58 am
Yes, shadows and sky rendering are incorrect there.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 10:36:20 am
I'm having big problems on Radeon 7770 + Catalyst 12.8. Here is video with my problems:
http://youtu.be/XJQPhvdQqeM (http://youtu.be/XJQPhvdQqeM)

Also, this time not killed outerra.exe process was eating about 600MB, so much more than before. :P
Should I try reinstall?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 11:37:53 am
You seem to be unlucky with the hardware choices :)

But this seems to be odd even for the known driver issues of the 7xxx series. Can you attach the eng.log here?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Chaoz on October 07, 2012, 11:49:56 am
great job cameni and Angrypig! Now we can have additional planes and what ever jsb is able to simulate.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 12:11:21 pm
Here is eng.log from last session:
http://www17.zippyshare.com/v/98909005/file.html (http://www17.zippyshare.com/v/98909005/file.html)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 12:19:40 pm
Can you try shooting down Xfire? Programs like those can interfere with OT by hooking into it and not being able to handle its decoupled rendering loop properly.

PS: Check in the log whether it's not hooked into OT anymore.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 12:47:04 pm
Unfortunately shuting down Xfire doesn't help. I don't know which other can interfere with OT (steam,fraps - they're turned off).

Also, in eng.log there is no longer "xfire" line in "Loaded modules" after turning off xfire. There are only 4 lines, all with original Outerra modules.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 12:54:21 pm
Ok, better sure than sorry. Damn, these AMD woes never end :(

Can you try older ATI driver versions? What was the first one that supported 7xxx?
Just be sure the driver installer really overwrites the files.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 01:09:17 pm
I asked my buddy to test Outerra demo. He has Radeon 7850.

I will try older drivers, but not today.

Also 2 videos from spherical and cylindrical projection:
http://youtu.be/bxo88cGwbzQ (http://youtu.be/bxo88cGwbzQ)
http://youtu.be/8IP_dPwXt3w (http://youtu.be/8IP_dPwXt3w)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 01:15:22 pm
There are also 12.9 beta drivers (http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalyst129betadriver.aspx), they didn't work with previous versions because of a new driver bug they introduced, but we worked around it in this version so you may give it a try.

You are still making those videos private ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 01:28:52 pm
Sorry, fixed. ;)

My buddy with Radeon 7850 + Catalyst 12.8 is having the same issue. Also, he has quite new installation of Windows 7, about 1 month? (Mine Windows 7 installation is over 1 year.)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 01:32:39 pm
Well as I said, it's a driver issue with 7xxx series. AMD has different code paths in the drivers for their chipsets, so it happens quite often that with the same driver something breaks on one series but not on the others.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 01:34:02 pm
Btw are you getting the same errors away from the sea, somewhere inland?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: lookastdu on October 07, 2012, 01:44:50 pm
Yes, for example somewhere deep in Himalayas I'm also having this issue. Also, somewhere away from land (on ocean) I'm still getting this issue on water.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Midviki on October 07, 2012, 01:47:05 pm
Beautiful!!!Great job, the shadow on the object has disappeared!!! .. all looks great.There is one thing though.. I think the update gave an automatic reset on the lighting of things.Or was it the update itself?Anyway.. nice to see the helicopter back :D.

The water makes minecraft squares again...  a lot more,lots more and now they come in different colors ;D... but that doesn't matter too much, maybe you will allow and probably everyone will want to play with the 3D vectors of the water and make their own kind of waves of the water.

And by the way.. did you increased the iterations on things, that's why the shadows don't appear anymore?.. but I think it increased it on water as well... looks more repetitive.Will this be affecting the objects with a higher poly count?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 07, 2012, 02:04:02 pm
No, the shadow fix is done by applying a depth correction in the pixel shaders, which slows down the object rendering though. The whole problem lies in that even though the hardware moved from a fixed pipeline to a programmable one a long time ago, depth interpolation is one of the last bastions of the fixed pipeline and it complicates our job a lot. I'll be writing a blog about it, mainly in hopes to get it addressed in the newer iterations of graphics cards.

For existing hardware we'll be trying adaptive tesselation in order to get some of the performance back.
It doesn't apply to the water, it looks more repetitive on it because we have fixed the lighting and the repetitiveness shows more. But the water will be updated in one of the next iterations, it was always planned so, the current water was just a base version.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Midviki on October 07, 2012, 02:11:29 pm
Hehe... I'm glad the shadow thingy went away, it was a bit bothering to the eye.. but I guess Zeos "the Pantera" will have a hard time playing with his 11k mesh tanks now :D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 07, 2012, 02:19:46 pm
I guess Zeos "the Pantera" will have a hard time playing with his 11k mesh tanks now :D

My 4000 series is the only thing giving me a hard time.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Midviki on October 07, 2012, 02:28:15 pm
My 4000 series is the only thing giving me a hard time.

I live in an Eastern Europe country where a 6000 series is as much as a minimum wage salary and a 7000 series is twice my mother's monthly pension.
But you can do how I did.Every month put aside 10-20% of your salary money or if your at school ask always for money for food or stuff that you cannot prove you bought them, like if you ask money for food from your parents, that doesn't mean you need to eat candies with them, you keep them on your piggy bank.I remember starting my new computer with no video card, just 2gb's of ram. The money that I have kept under the mat for over a year I manage to buy the basics.. and then in another half year I started adding stuff.Anyway.. just an idea for you Zeos.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on October 07, 2012, 10:32:28 pm
I live in an Eastern Europe country where a 6000 series is as much as a minimum wage salary and a 7000 series is twice my mother's monthly pension.
But you can do how I did.Every month put aside 10-20% of your salary money or if your at school ask always for money for food or stuff that you cannot prove you bought them, like if you ask money for food from your parents, that doesn't mean you need to eat candies with them, you keep them on your piggy bank.I remember starting my new computer with no video card, just 2gb's of ram. The money that I have kept under the mat for over a year I manage to buy the basics.. and then in another half year I started adding stuff.Anyway.. just an idea for you Zeos.
Wise ideas.  Of course, the cost depends on the card in the series.  You can have single GPU cards ranging from HD 6450 (USD 35-58) to 6950 (USD 180-280), and HD 7750 (USD 90-120) to 7970 GHz edition (USD 400-700).  Your own HD 6670 currently costs USD 70 on Newegg.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: murkz on October 08, 2012, 03:02:18 am
Hi Outerra,

Thank you for the new release and fixes, they look great.

Though I have few new issues since the patch: The geometry of the model seems to vanish as you get closer to the model and the skins of the panther now look very shiny.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/8065942414_c976543f61_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8182/8065941485_bd08d9962d_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 08, 2012, 03:16:22 am
At least we know how to make a wet surface :D

I will deal with the vanishing geometry, and for the change in material rendering we all patiently wait until Angrypig provides some docs. Or hints. Anything :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 08, 2012, 03:27:37 am
Wow. Pooped my pants a little seeing that there.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: angrypig on October 08, 2012, 09:04:48 am
The material looks like a wet because the "m" parameter in your material is too low which means that material is smooth/shiny, "m" defines material's roughness it can be provided by texture too. For tank material you should use values above 0.5 because those materials are usually matte for good reason. :)

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: murkz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:57 am
The material looks like a wet because the "m" parameter in your material is too low which means that material is smooth/shiny, "m" defines material's roughness it can be provided by texture too. For tank material you should use values above 0.5 because those materials are usually matte for good reason. :)

Thank you for the reply AP, will go and investigate now :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: murkz on October 08, 2012, 09:24:27 am
The material looks like a wet because the "m" parameter in your material is too low which means that material is smooth/shiny, "m" defines material's roughness it can be provided by texture too. For tank material you should use values above 0.5 because those materials are usually matte for good reason. :)

Thank you for the reply AP, will go and investigate now :)

If this is done correctly then nothing has changed?

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8458/8066820126_7105be7a52_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/8066820747_6d81d33993_b.jpg)

AP please advise me where I am going wrong.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: angrypig on October 08, 2012, 10:39:05 am
Try to remove specular textures because our roughness texture works in different way than usual specular textures.

- in case the roughness textures is used you should set the "m" parameter to 1.0, in this case this is simple multiplier.
- if you want to use your specular texture you have to invert/negate them, because 1 means matte and 0 means shinny and in specular texture it is exact opposite, there are other differences but simple invert/negative should be enough. If you want to use correct values in texture the formula which is used for conversion from roughness to blinn/phong glosiness is:
Code: [Select]
2.0 / (roughness * roughness) - 2.0
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Bartolomeus on October 08, 2012, 04:26:01 pm
Thx for the new update. Looks better now with ships and subs! ;)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/5592/outerra2012100822203497.jpg)

Marko
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ddenn on October 09, 2012, 02:42:07 pm
Is there a way for simple addon installation? As far as I see right now to install aircraft user needs to open Outerra, import the addon from DAE format (chose right object to import and check all the bones for animations), exit Outerra, place .js script, .matlib and .objdev files to /packages/ folder and flight dynamic files into /jsbsim/aircraft/[addon name] folder (and some of them in /Engine/ subfolder), start Outerra and hope that nothing went wrong.

And is it possible to make all FDM files store in the addon directory? Subfolder /jsbsim/ maybe
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 09, 2012, 04:07:36 pm
You just need to distribute the resulting package folder. You don't distribute the DAE file at all!

When you import your model, a folder under packages/yourname/ in OT data dir is created. You need to pack that folder for the users, preferably including the whole packages/ddenn/ path there, and instruct the users to unpack it in their data directory.
Additionally it should contain also the FDM file, but I'm not sure if it can be included in the package folder now, probably not yet. But we'll fix it.

Anyway, once finished the importer will also pack it automatically and create a single packed model file that will simplify it completely.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ddenn on October 09, 2012, 04:11:01 pm
That's good, thanks
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: Foohy on October 10, 2012, 12:02:53 am
Would it be worth having the whatever packaged file format be associated with an outerra package installer/manager? So that way all one needs to do is double click on the downloaded package file, which opens it in the package manager and adds it to your game. (Along with the option to manage currently installed packages)

Definitely not on high priority, but would a nice little addition.
Heck, I could probably make a simple manager if it's just placing them in a specific folder.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 10, 2012, 01:18:33 am
Yes, that's how I imagine it - you just double click the file and it gets installed.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ddenn on October 10, 2012, 10:17:43 am
I have a suggestion, maybe make back-lighting a bit brighter when on the ground, now it's too dark I think

(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/1161/screen1349878129.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img84/4091/screen1349878230.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 11, 2012, 01:20:38 am
Already adjusted internally, though it's still just a simple hack.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: ddenn on October 11, 2012, 02:44:08 am
Can we add/control sounds?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3333
Post by: cameni on October 11, 2012, 02:50:38 am
Not yet, planned for version after the next one.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 02:25:34 am
Version 0.7.12.3348

Note you need to open the controls menu to get the trim&gear controls mapped the first time, otherwise you'll get some errors in the log window when spawning an aircraft.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 03:27:05 am
Thanks for the update!

I'm a bit confused about get_camera_mode. Is this code correct? It doesn't work for me, and no errors in log file

Code: [Select]
function update_frame(dt){
if (this.get_camera_mode < 1 ) {
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(pilot_body, false);
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(head_p_id, false);
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(ochki_p_id, false);
}
else {
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(pilot_body, true);
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(head_p_id, true);
geom.set_mesh_visible_id(ochki_p_id, true);
}

...

}
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 03:36:23 am
You want to invoke get_camera_mode as a function, i.e. this.get_camera_mode()
Using just this.get_camera_mode returns a function object.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 03:39:57 am
Thanks, works now
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 12, 2012, 03:40:54 am
  • collisions working even when the testing rays occasionally get below the terrain completely, vehicles should no more fall into the center of the planet
We will see about that..
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 04:47:31 am
The gear retraction control works incorrectly, gears are retracted if I holding retract button, if I release the button the gears deploy. It should work as toggle, not button
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: angrypig on October 12, 2012, 05:03:55 am
that gear control is my small mistake :(
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: Chaoz on October 12, 2012, 05:38:45 am
why is it that when i add in the javascript file in the updateframe function the line: this.log_dbg(sometext); that outerra crashes
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: angrypig on October 12, 2012, 05:46:43 am
the right syntax for that is: this.log_dbg("some text");
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: Chaoz on October 12, 2012, 05:51:45 am
yeah noticed it and if you want to display variables you have to add an empty string
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: angrypig on October 12, 2012, 05:55:24 am
it's probably a bug in our code
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 05:57:16 am
It seems the terrain bug is back

(http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8661/screen1350035603.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 06:01:50 am
Do you have the debug_keys set to true in eng.cfg? If so, does the tile limiter window pop up when you encounter this problem? It should be highlighting the limiter stage that is choking.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 06:03:59 am
No, debug_keys is false, no pop up window. Will set it to true. Also there was a few crashes with no visible reason, reports sent.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 06:08:27 am
Also I have a report from one of the Russian users, the trim keys work fine when they are set to keyboard, but still do nothing if they are set to joystick buttons.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: hhrhhr on October 12, 2012, 06:33:07 am
but still do nothing if they are set to joystick buttons.
confirm that, all buttons increase only elevator trim.
if use hat: up-down to elevator, left-right to aileron
result: up-right - elevator, left-down aileron
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3348
Post by: angrypig on October 12, 2012, 06:36:27 am
i just fixed this issue so it will work in next update
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 12:27:24 pm
Version 0.7.12.3352
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 12:48:37 pm
Thanks for the update, gear controls seems working. Though now even gear set as no-retractable retracts as well.

Another thing - I've got "ERROR: Cannot find requested event "player/reload_script_on_object"!" when entering aircraft, and ctrl+r doesn't do anything.

Also the terrain bug is here, this time debug_keys = true and no pop up still
(http://imageshack.us/a/img259/6906/screen1350059972.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 01:07:38 pm
Though now even gear set as no-retractable retracts as well.

Did update includes Shavrov's flight model as well? That's why my tail wheel become retractable again. We need our scripts in one folder with all addon files...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 12, 2012, 01:18:26 pm
The gear retraction control works incorrectly, gears are retracted if I holding retract button, if I release the button the gears deploy. It should work as toggle, not button

Actually having events like that able to be toggled would be fantastic for cockpit builders. That way you could have an actual switch for gear up and gear down instead of a button.

Same for things like headlights, ignition.. anything that toggles between states. It could just be definable in the INI to keep the UI clean.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 01:29:38 pm
Actually having events like that able to be toggled would be fantastic for cockpit builders. That way you could have an actual switch for gear up and gear down instead of a button.

Same for things like headlights, ignition.. anything that toggles between states. It could just be definable in the INI to keep the UI clean.
Yes, that's how it works in x-plane - we can change datarefs (properties) with scripts as we like, to switch them as toggles, buttons, sliders etc., and make custom commands for them which users can set to their keyboard/joystick buttons/axis
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 02:27:33 pm
Also the terrain bug is here, this time debug_keys = true and no pop up still
Can you reproduce it? When you encounter it again press alt+5 and make a screen. Also please attach your world.cfg.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 12, 2012, 02:38:10 pm
Another thing - I've got "ERROR: Cannot find requested event "player/reload_script_on_object"!" when entering aircraft, and ctrl+r doesn't do anything.
It does not add the event to your iomap.cfg, for now please add it manually, copying it from iomap.cfg.default

Quote
Did update includes Shavrov's flight model as well? That's why my tail wheel become retractable again. We need our scripts in one folder with all addon files...
Um, yes, it got copied there from my files, I must have copied them into the build folders instead of the test install files.
The scripts will go into the model folder, but at the moment JSBSim doesn't handle it that way, we need to work around that.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 12, 2012, 02:43:01 pm
Can you reproduce it? When you encounter it again press alt+5 and make a screen. Also please attach your world.cfg.
Tried for 15 minutes, no bug yet. Will report if I see it again.

It does not add the event to your iomap.cfg, for now please add it manually, copying it from iomap.cfg.default
Thanks, will try.

P.s. I can now hide pilot when I in FPS view and show it in other views, can I show it also by 'exit vehicle' event?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: angrypig on October 12, 2012, 03:16:28 pm
P.s. I can now hide pilot when I in FPS view and show it in other views, can I show it also by 'exit vehicle' event?

You are not able to detect that plane is active or inactive now, i'll add a function/event for that to the aircraft API in next update...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 13, 2012, 03:44:13 am
Can you reproduce it? When you encounter it again press alt+5 and make a screen. Also please attach your world.cfg.

I've got the bug again, here's the screen with alt+5

(http://imageshack.us/a/img193/5923/screen1350113992.jpg)

It seems it appears immediately after Outerra starts, and disappears after I move a little while to its direction.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 13, 2012, 03:47:47 am
Thanks, can I also have your world.cfg?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 13, 2012, 03:54:55 am
Sorry, forgot to attach it
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: murkz on October 13, 2012, 03:57:05 am
Hi Outerra

There are still geometry issues with the models when you get closer to them.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8336/8082052419_4466f3ba6d_b.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8082046656_d2e3c13548_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 13, 2012, 04:01:54 am
Hmm I can't replicate it here, but then it's also dependent on your resolution and roads.

I think this is related to low FOV. You will notice that letter T is red in the TS column, that means that the limiter for limit-treetile saturates and cannot free anything. But I could not simulate it here with the narrowest FOV and 720p, I have limit-treetile = 96 like you. The screen aspect could be affecting it erroneously though, even though it should not be affecting that limiter.

I'll look at it; meanwhile you could try raising the limit-treetile a bit higher.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 13, 2012, 04:05:23 am
There are still geometry issues with the models when you get closer to them.
Yes these are known, actually this version has some experimental code that's causing it, I'm trying to find optimal settings and researching faster paths. Don't worry though, there's a solution that works precisely, we are just experimenting with it to make it faster.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ddenn on October 13, 2012, 04:05:57 am
Thanks, I try to change it to 128.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 13, 2012, 04:09:33 am
Yeah when refining stops for me I just pop my FOV to 128° for a second, wait for it all to load and lower it again. Happens only once in a while for me.

EDIT: Yeah trying to spawn the Apache still just crashes my video drivers instantly. Oh well. I will get to play come upgrade time. I was never much good anyway.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: murkz on October 13, 2012, 04:11:34 am
There are still geometry issues with the models when you get closer to them.
Yes these are known, actually this version has some experimental code that's causing it, I'm trying to find optimal settings and researching faster paths. Don't worry though, there's a solution that works precisely, we are just experimenting with it to make it faster.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: cameni on October 13, 2012, 04:14:27 am
Trying to spawn the Apache still just crashes my video drivers instantly. Oh well. I will get to play come upgrade time. I was never much good anyway.
Might be even specific to your 4890, got report of it working on 4850 ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 13, 2012, 04:30:54 am
I will update my brothers PC to this build and try on his 4850. I will be pissed if it is JUST my personal 4890.

Side note no crashing otherwise. A great sign.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3352
Post by: Midviki on October 25, 2012, 02:03:35 pm
Shadow bug.

(http://i.minus.com/jHokg6gxRSy69.jpg) (http://minus.com/lHokg6gxRSy69)

This happens when the object is introduced in the ground.So for example if you introduce 1 object in the ground lets say 10 centimeters, the shadow doesn't seem to be too much distant from the object.But if you have for example like the pylons of a bridge or a tall building introduced in the ground a few meters the shadow goes haywire.For example the object in the print screen is like 2 meters introduced the ground and that happened.


***Before this... it was another bug, the base of the object was "disappearing"(it was not visible) in contact with the ground when it was introduced too much in the ground.But as soon you where approaching the object at the same level and not facing the camera from a upper angle the missing details of the base of the object introduced in the ground started showing up.But now that problem is no more.But it seems the shadow is a bit off.Even when you move the camera < Right to Left > you can see the shadow moving.And it gives you the impression that a static object is moving along with you.In the past when the problem with the depth of the object in the contact with the ground physics the shadow seemed to have no problem, you can check that if it helps to see the comparisons( the version when the importer was introduced I think its old enough to see the differences).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 10:14:34 am
Version 0.7.12.3377

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: Chaoz on November 03, 2012, 10:25:12 am
when will we be able to update ?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 10:27:10 am
Sorry, forgot to update the version file, now ..
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: Chaoz on November 03, 2012, 10:28:49 am
ah now it's updating :D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 03, 2012, 10:29:57 am
So.. Hold on to your butts?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 03, 2012, 10:43:50 am
Every time it crashes to the reporter it RE-DOWNLOADS the 3377 update and installs again next run. Twice so far.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: Chaoz on November 03, 2012, 10:45:38 am
first of all, great update ! I knew there was something big coming...

Now I've noticed some bugs, first, the tatra now doesn't have a steering wheel animation anymore.

Second, the heli now sinks up to the half of the model into the ground and it doesn't have a sound anymore.

Third, I've noticed it for several updates now, the altitude and ground distance values in the TAB HUD are the same, which can be very confusing.

Fourth, I'm not sure if this is a bug but the speed gauge of the cessna has a glowing texture and is see able at night :D

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ddenn on November 03, 2012, 11:03:32 am
Thanks for the update!

I have some issues with shadows and reflections on sh2 which wasn't there before

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ddenn on November 03, 2012, 11:05:12 am
And shadows
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ddenn on November 03, 2012, 11:13:04 am
Another problem is after restarting Outerra it downloading the patch again, tried three times now
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 11:17:26 am
The redownloading on restart is a bug, working on it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: gnatho on November 03, 2012, 03:24:17 pm
After first attempt to update, the app crashed with Windows error "Application is not compatibile with your Win version (64-bit)". I deleted the .exe file and tried again. Now Outerra runs smoothly, but when I try to spawn any object, it crashes.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 03:54:48 pm
There's been reports of objects crashing on ATI 4000 series, what's your graphics card?
There will be another update soon that changes the rendering of objects, hopefully making it work on those cards again.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 04:33:40 pm
This is impossible. I've been testing this version on ATI 5000 and 7000 series, and by the crash reports the objects crash on ATI 4000 and 6000 series >:(
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 05:20:57 pm
Update - version 3379, should fix the crash on ATI cards when spawning objects, please test and report.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: deathevor on November 03, 2012, 05:32:18 pm
For me ALT+E works only on T817.

All planes (including mine) just switch of Engine on ALT+E.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: booz on November 03, 2012, 05:33:33 pm
Radeon 6900 series, it s ok for me  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2012, 05:41:18 pm
For me ALT+E works only on T817.

All planes (including mine) just switch of Engine on ALT+E.

Ah yes, the editor is bound only on vehicles now. Anyway, you can edit the file outside in your preferred editor as well, alt-tabbing away from OT, and then pres alt-R to reload the script of bound vehicle (or ctrl+R if you had previously configured the reload to it). I'll add launching the editor on aircraft too.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: deathevor on November 03, 2012, 06:45:17 pm
For me ALT+E works only on T817.

All planes (including mine) just switch of Engine on ALT+E.

Ah yes, the editor is bound only on vehicles now. Anyway, you can edit the file outside in your preferred editor as well, alt-tabbing away from OT, and then pres alt-R to reload the script of bound vehicle (or ctrl+R if you had previously configured the reload to it). I'll add launching the editor on aircraft too.

Nice, this feature makes life easier!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ddenn on November 04, 2012, 04:04:20 am
The redownloading on restart is a bug, working on it.
What about shadow/reflectance issue? I tried to re-import the model with the same result. I made sh2 a long time ago, and the texture mapping is far from ideal, but it worked ok in previous versions of OT. Didn't find issues in this OT version with Goose model though.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ddenn on November 04, 2012, 05:06:17 am
Found solution, the problem disappears after using "Reset XFofrm" tool before exporting the model to DAE.

Still wondering, why it worked fine in previous versions
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 04, 2012, 10:04:19 am
Angrypig's trying to find out why that could have happened. Might be because of a loss of precision somewhere in the import process or the pipeline.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: angrypig on November 05, 2012, 04:31:22 am
Found solution, the problem disappears after using "Reset XFofrm" tool before exporting the model to DAE.

Still wondering, why it worked fine in previous versions

I made a few minor changes to obj pipeline to reduce memory requirements for object instances and obviously i miss a few things. The issue is cause by non-uniform scale on object and "Reset Xform" applies the rotation and the scale to vertices so the final matrix doesn't contains the scale which cause this issue. I will try to add my own "Reset Xform" to the importer which allows me more optimizations in obj pipeline it should be ready in the next update.

The shadow issue is standard shadowmap acne i will deal with it later...

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: PRiME on November 07, 2012, 07:04:34 pm
Nice update, just wondering if there is any way to ad in tank-tracks to game? would this be something to consider doing in the future? maybe full track physics and half-track (this would be good for snow vehicles as well as tanks).  Considering making a tank for this game-engine (eventual WoT type game module).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 08, 2012, 01:43:21 am
We have been thinking about it a bit too. You can simulate the wheels already, we are just thinking how to animate the tracks according to the simulated wheels, preferably in some higher detail. If the tracks were made of individual instanced pieces, one could compute the positions from the wheel positions. Probably there could be a custom renderer for that too.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 08, 2012, 02:05:47 am
Well tank tracks are notoriously bad in most game engines. They would need to function realistically and not just "look" realistic. Clearing gaps and climbing objects. I believe it can be done and it should be done here..

Might also be a good testing point for terrain deformation. IE tank tracks in the soft grass leaving their patter or doing doughnuts and shredding the earth below into a brown chocolate mess.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2413/2179058279_08612e2dd3.jpg)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: Krutan on November 08, 2012, 10:28:32 am
How come I have version 0.7.12.3379 when it says nothing about it here? What's the changes in 3379?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: cameni on November 08, 2012, 10:34:52 am
3379 just fixes some bugs that 3377 introduced, specifically objects crashing on ATI.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: Krutan on November 08, 2012, 11:01:29 am
3379 just fixes some bugs that 3377 introduced, specifically objects crashing on ATI.
I see :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 12, 2012, 03:01:29 pm
Version 0.7.12.3390
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3377
Post by: mustang60348 on November 12, 2012, 03:06:43 pm
Alt - E does not bring up the contents of the .js file, the editor appears but nothing in the text window.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 12, 2012, 03:26:05 pm
Did you import the model as a vehicle or aircraft? What is written in the objdef file as script=...?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: mustang60348 on November 12, 2012, 03:36:00 pm
I tried it with one of the build aircraft AND built in trucks
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 12, 2012, 03:42:26 pm
Those won't work this way, you need to make a copy of the package from the install dir into your outerra data directory first. E.g. copy the t817 folder to your data dir under packages/<yourname>/t817
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: mustang60348 on November 12, 2012, 03:54:10 pm
Thanks Cool, I will try that, I am sure it will work
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: mustang60348 on November 13, 2012, 04:51:25 am
Not 100% working but better, for some reason I only see part of the .js file in the editor.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 13, 2012, 09:14:02 am
I ran Outerra today after quite some time, but it patched it only to 3352 and i can't get it to download the 3390.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 13, 2012, 09:16:17 am
There's a bug in the updater, if it finds one patch and applies it, then immediately after restart it won't look for more updates. You have to restart it once more.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 13, 2012, 09:27:34 am
I restarted it, but it doesn't download the 3390.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 13, 2012, 10:00:32 am
Hmm, maybe 3352 could not handle incremental updates. I've changed it so it updates to 3377 first, then to 3391.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 13, 2012, 10:12:42 am
It's downloading the 3391 now. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: mustang60348 on November 13, 2012, 02:41:32 pm
I found what was wrong in the editor , the scroll bar on the right side doesn't update properly for the size of the file, if you use the down arrow key and scroll that way, the whole file is there
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 14, 2012, 10:40:30 am
With 3391 sometimes some terrain tiles are not rendered correctly. (http://imgur.com/a/vSUat (http://imgur.com/a/vSUat))
That happens only at a certain distance from the ground. If i go closer or farther away those tiles snap back to the right on, though they may change in number before they all go in place.
Also, as you can see in those screenshots, i get lots of errors.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 14, 2012, 10:47:05 am
Those console errors are because old buildings that were there aren't in the dev version.

Terrain bugs .. what's your graphics card and the driver version? There were some issues on ATI that we thought we worked around until AMD fixes their drivers, on our cards we now aren't getting such errors anymore (4850/6850/7850).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 14, 2012, 10:56:57 am
Oh right, forgot to write about the card. Damned ATI 4850 here :/.
But wait, you mean you test outerra with that? do you ever experience driver crashes with that? Currently i can hardly run it for more that a few minutes before the driver is restarted.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: Chaoz on November 14, 2012, 10:59:48 am
ATI and there problems... i know why i buy nvidia everytime....
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 14, 2012, 11:04:30 am
Yea it crashes like mad, that one. Hardly anything can be done about it since AMD discontinued the support back in June, and those crashes are all driver ones. Some calls are guaranteed to crash it so we are avoiding them for now, but unless something magic happens it probably won't get much better :(
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 14, 2012, 11:10:37 am
ATI and there problems... i know why i buy nvidia everytime....
Yeah... I don't really know if I should buy NVIDIA or ATI these days. While NVIDIA has much better drivers AMD is working quite hard on Linux open source drivers, which to me is important (especially since Wayland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29) is coming) since I use Linux as my main system.
Also, on a different but related matter, NVIDIA has a quite crappy OpenCL support (and behaviour on it).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: Chaoz on November 14, 2012, 11:13:33 am
EDIT: Nvm I didn't read open source driver :D My Bad.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: giucam on November 14, 2012, 11:23:07 am
I did not say they aren't doing anything. Indeed, their Linux driver performance wise is better than ATI's one. But they are closed. They may be working with Steam but they are not working with the kernel developers (hence the recent Linus's "fuck you" to NVIDIA).
I don't blame them for being closed, that's a choice, but an open driver has some valuable advantages over a closed one.

But i think we're OT ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: HughesMDflyer4 on November 16, 2012, 07:17:06 pm
Is it just me, or is the locating of building objects by the engine broken with the latest development build? I'm seeing errors that the game cannot load some objects.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on November 17, 2012, 01:28:00 am
Those are probably the old objects on the airport that weren't converted yet to the new format.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: Midviki on December 09, 2012, 11:01:56 am
- (http://i.minus.com/jYsatTp2DPbac.jpg) (http://minus.com/lYsatTp2DPbac)

- (http://i.minus.com/j7atdhZ7cQueY.jpg) (http://minus.com/l7atdhZ7cQueY)

- (http://i.minus.com/jyRMsTJb328Tx.jpg) (http://minus.com/lyRMsTJb328Tx)

- (http://i.minus.com/jbtQUSvSIJSy5F.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbtQUSvSIJSy5F)

hi :D , I'm back from a break and I decided to start working on my project... and I saw those things :D.

Yep... I know I saw previous pages!

I made this because of the water... But I don't know exactly, but the same thing was happening with water before the terrain "thingy" now.

But the water "thingy" happened because I tempered with the Atmo / Water.. and other settings.And now I'm thinking.. how do I reset them without reinstalling the engine... cause it seems I can't reset to default.What files do I delete?.. if I delete them.. they will come with an automatic 'repair' when I launch the game again...?
Till I will buy a new video card in like 1 year.. for sure (nVidia) I will need to suck it up with this one and work it out around the problems that I might face.
So how do I reset it things :D?Maybe it will make it more stable ( like with the water when I had same problem before the patch ).
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3390
Post by: cameni on December 09, 2012, 11:37:08 am
AMD bug. We started using transform feedback (an OpenGL technique) that results in faster processing of generated terrain data, and discovered this bug on AMD cards. The bug was already fixed internally in AMD and should be out when it gets through their QA. When I receive a confirmation I'll let you know.

Meanwhile we have a workaround that is unfortunately occasionally degrading the performance of the generator, it will be in the next update. In a month or two when the patched drivers come out we'll add driver detection and a warning to update.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 14, 2012, 06:16:45 am
Version 0.7.12.3425


Old object placement data have been fixed, but since patches update only the program files, you have to download and unpack the cache.zip (http://outerraworld.com/appdata/Anteworld/cache.zip) file into your data folder manually if you want to get some of the buildings back and to get rid of the error messages. This version will be soon followed by a full update that merges the dev branch with the main one, that will update the data files as well.

Importer in this version fixes the gaps in the models appearing because of limited precision and badly positioned mesh reference points, and automatically applies reset Xform. You need to reimport your models for it to take effect.

In case something goes wrong with the automatic update, here's the link to download and run the patch manually: Anteworld-0.7.12.3352.patch-3425 (http://outerraworld.com/appdata/Anteworld/Anteworld-0.7.12.3352.patch-3425.exe)

(http://i.minus.com/j1rQKXVzXUpdv.jpg) (http://minus.com/l1rQKXVzXUpdv)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ddenn on December 14, 2012, 06:29:40 am
Thank you!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Midviki on December 14, 2012, 06:30:26 am
Nice!.. Great Job!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: murkz on December 14, 2012, 06:31:04 am
A big thank you here as well :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Bartolomeus on December 14, 2012, 07:39:06 am
Great news! Thank you!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ThePoemOfGods on December 14, 2012, 07:40:05 am
I think i found an bug (atleast for my PC)
I tryed to fix Outerra many times and on all Versions aviable, but it allways crashed at the start saying that CrashRpt.dll is missing. It is installed as i can find the CrashRpt.dll inside Outerra Folder but it seams that the game doesnt find it any Idea what i coud do to fix it?

*edit* Tryed to Install Again but this time with Test Scenes on and it worked somehow O.o
So maybe the CrashRpt.dll doesnt get installed right if you deactivate Test Scenes
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 14, 2012, 08:22:20 am
What is your operating system?

Test scenes do not have anything with the CrashRpt.dll. Hmm, maybe it crashes because of some corrupted data you had, and the installed test scenes overwrote it. But it still doesn't explain why it would not find the dll right under its nose.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ThePoemOfGods on December 14, 2012, 11:27:04 am
Windows 7 64-bit
And it started Bugging again
:L
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 14, 2012, 12:29:12 pm
Can you send me the eng.log? Preferably from such a session where it gives the error.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 14, 2012, 01:19:49 pm
Your grass looks a bit scraggly. Is that the location or how you have it set?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 14, 2012, 02:07:09 pm
It's angrypig's, he has it at 1/4 density.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 14, 2012, 03:56:47 pm
Have a bit of an issue. My world is all white.. Except when I am quite a ways away..

http://i1.minus.com/ibgjUxi8HlYUAa.jpg (http://i1.minus.com/ibgjUxi8HlYUAa.jpg)

http://i3.minus.com/iEwLZDKQ5SEW9.jpg (http://i3.minus.com/iEwLZDKQ5SEW9.jpg)

http://i3.minus.com/iSxFl8Myx4DgI.jpg (http://i3.minus.com/iSxFl8Myx4DgI.jpg)

http://i5.minus.com/ib0vET1rF2XlMX.jpg (http://i5.minus.com/ib0vET1rF2XlMX.jpg)

Don't know if this is an eng.log requiring issue.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 14, 2012, 04:41:37 pm
Hmm this is odd. The workaround for the transform feedback bug causing occasional white tiles is causing complete white havoc on 4800 cards. The workaround was suggested by ATI devs ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: giucam on December 14, 2012, 05:38:46 pm
The workaround was suggested by ATI devs ...
Well, they clearly know what they do regarding drivers, right?  ::) :-X
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Edding3000 on December 14, 2012, 10:37:45 pm
I still wonder why OpenGL? Its so much more inmature than DirectX... The only reason i can find is that dx is exclusive to windows and maybe opengl is more flexible in suggestions and bug fixxes.
but really: why opengl???
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 14, 2012, 10:38:18 pm
My ATi Loyalty is now fully in question.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 12:26:24 am
Anyone else with ATI cards seen white tiles with this version?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: JotBe on December 15, 2012, 03:07:29 am
Since some updates ago, shadows were back again with my Geforce GT540M.  :)
With V.3425 I am missing some parts or even complete wheels.
(the model is from here: http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1253.msg14318#msg14318 (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1253.msg14318#msg14318)

(http://i.imagebanana.com/img/wavr5at9/thumb/Lack_of_Wheels.png) (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/wavr5at9/Lack_of_Wheels.png)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 03:14:39 am
That's an old one, please try the model from here: http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1352.0 (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1352.0)
It's not yet updated to the new format (you'll notice gaps from inside), but it should work.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: JotBe on December 15, 2012, 03:41:31 am
Needless to say this works. So, it was not an issue by my graphics card. And that's fine, for me and your work!

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ThePoemOfGods on December 15, 2012, 04:34:35 am
i looked throught Completly everywhere but it seam that it even doesnt creat an eng.log if i start Outerra (it Instantly crash as i double click it)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: pico on December 15, 2012, 05:14:18 am
I miss the low Camera. I liked flying right over the Grass.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 05:18:37 am
i looked throught Completly everywhere but it seam that it even doesnt creat an eng.log if i start Outerra (it Instantly crash as i double click it)
Sometimes it creates crash.log in the win home/outerra dir (regardless of your outerra data dir).

Or you might reinstall it cleanly just to be sure.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 15, 2012, 05:25:54 am
Install Everything.. IE this http://www.voidtools.com/Everything-1.2.1.371.exe (http://www.voidtools.com/Everything-1.2.1.371.exe)

After it installs look for a eng.log and if it exists on your PC it will find it.

{WAY better then windows search}
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Chaoz on December 15, 2012, 05:31:27 am
I still wonder why OpenGL? Its so much more inmature than DirectX... The only reason i can find is that dx is exclusive to windows and maybe opengl is more flexible in suggestions and bug fixxes.
but really: why opengl???

well someone has to start using it ;) Getting away from DX is a good thing since OpenGl really just is harder to use but not really less capable, but since it's  not really that common the driver support and api isn't on the level of DX yet.
Plus Nvidia is really supporting the opengl and especially the linux driver development and has produced some very good ones lately, from ATI i haven't seen anything near that so i'd start thinking about switching since i have no problems with this game and I have a 560ti GTX, which really is affordable now and is still capable of playing BF3 on high....
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 05:40:50 am
I still wonder why OpenGL? Its so much more inmature than DirectX... The only reason i can find is that dx is exclusive to windows and maybe opengl is more flexible in suggestions and bug fixxes.
but really: why opengl???
OpenGL is not immature, the drivers are (of ATI and Intel). They are immature because majority of games use DirectX, but the situation is different for simulators, especially in military. As far as the API is concerned, in my opinion OpenGL works better, has less overhead and allows us to use the GPU in better ways.

However, the winds are changing also in gaming. Microsoft is trying hard to kill itself, ballmering down for a long time and becoming less and less competitive. New OS for tablets all use OpenGL (ES), it looks good for the future of OpenGL.

Why we decided to go for OpenGL back when it was not so clear ... because DirectX is Windows only (and we want portability), because M$ subjects it to their marketing strategy (see the decision not to enable newer versions of DirectX in previous OS versions). Because we want OT to survive the decline of the empire.

Besides, I believe that there would be problems even on DirectX (with the drivers). Majority of games use DirectX, but they also use just a small subset of new functionality of graphics units.

Still, the situation with AMD bothers me.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Chaoz on December 15, 2012, 05:45:11 am
great decision!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Jagerbomber on December 15, 2012, 08:24:53 am
ballmering down for a long time and becoming less and less competitive.

Ha!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Midviki on December 15, 2012, 09:48:42 am
Anyone else with ATI cards seen white tiles with this version?

Nothing special... I tried what Z.P. did, the space view, and no white squares for me.

But I did see some small squares, that where not really relevant ( I mean, they don't bother me).That where on the water, but you probably know that.

(http://i.minus.com/j1WsQQy3un3dV.jpg) (http://minus.com/l1WsQQy3un3dV)

and

(http://i.minus.com/jbvrl1NwQD9VNB.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbvrl1NwQD9VNB)

But from what I know the water is not developed yet, with particles , physics and splashes :D. But those squares where not there before... I think they where bigger... like 1 meter big I think, now they are 1-2 centimeters.But probably that's the increased iterations from a version to another.
But dunno... maybe it has something to do with the same squares that ZeosP. has or not.Anyway they look cool when seen from above ( my squares ) they sparkle.But maybe I can make them disappear if I play a bit with the graphic settings, haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 09:54:42 am
That's something else, I haven't seen it yet.
Maybe because I haven't been near water for a long time ... :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Midviki on December 15, 2012, 10:34:05 am
Bottom Right corner... a black line with flickering squares.It was appearing only when keeping the camera like 90-95% on the planet and 5-10% on the dark space.And as you can see in the picture.. you can see trough the planet.. you can see the stars somewhere in some of those black squares.Maybe this helps to get to the bottom of things :D.

(http://i.minus.com/jbudkJGlQMm0nL.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbudkJGlQMm0nL)


(http://i.minus.com/jXyEzRjxu6UIm.jpg) (http://minus.com/lXyEzRjxu6UIm)

From what I could see... it appears only in that corner.Yep and it may be not much, but on older versions cards or maybe on lower / higher details, that black line / object it may manifest on a larger scale, like the hole screen or around it.Btw its just a screen shot, it is actually moving and flickering, and its like an object a cube / triangle or something, its not always full visible, the little squares appearing and disappearing depending how you hold or move the camera.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: cameni on December 15, 2012, 10:48:26 am
That one is known, but the reason unknown. Guessing a loss of precision in the rasterizer. Happens on Nvidia too, in different conditions though.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: seppen on December 15, 2012, 09:49:39 pm
I feel Opengl is very effecticve  8)
But if wanna make cash I do recon mobiles is needed, and I hate em, but it will be Future.

I´m sorry for lack of soper presence, but vacation takes it toll.
Hope development goes on fast, this is a great engine.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3425
Post by: Midviki on December 16, 2012, 11:08:06 am
But if wanna make cash I do recon mobiles is needed, and I hate em, but it will be Future.

O really...  :D... not really.You will see.And anyway... I think Outerra works with something more than just "mobiles", something better.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 18, 2012, 04:17:05 pm
Version 0.7.12.3431
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 18, 2012, 04:37:20 pm
4000 AMD series works again, but not completely, you can get odd colorization of terrain tiles when the driver bug manifests. Unfortunately, that part can't be worked around in an easy manner, unless AMD provides a fixed driver we will have to duplicate and rebuild several components in the generating and rendering pipeline just for ATI 4k.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 18, 2012, 11:59:19 pm
Well crap stallion. Any particular card you think would be the best OT upgrade solution?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 19, 2012, 01:34:15 am
I personally would go for 6xx NV Kepler series, a 660 or 660Ti. NV is generally performing better in OT compared to similar level ATI cards, probably boiling down to driver immaturity again. Although, the usage pattern of OT is a bit different than of other games ... we should really make the benchmark, but we want 3D trees for it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Chaoz on December 19, 2012, 02:10:25 am
and if your budget isn't big enough for them you can always go to the good old 560 ti, still rockin' ! :D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Danielcz on December 19, 2012, 09:17:54 am
4000 AMD series works again, but not completely, you can get odd colorization of terrain tiles when the driver bug manifests. Unfortunately, that part can't be worked around in an easy manner, unless AMD provides a fixed driver we will have to duplicate and rebuild several components in the generating and rendering pipeline just for ATI 4k.

i think you can drop support for HD4xxx series.. i cant imagine play anteworld on this anyway after more assets will be added. Drivers for this will never be fixed its no longer supported in active development.. it was not in active development year ago... at least on my HD4870x2 it was bad last 2 years.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: jlnsvfx on December 24, 2012, 12:16:17 pm
I have downloaded version 7.12 several times and I keep getting version 7.11.3100 - is that the latest one?

thanks,

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 24, 2012, 04:05:44 pm
No, 7.11.3100 is the latest in the old branch. Can you check what directory did you install it to and where from it is running?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 27, 2012, 06:16:14 pm
(http://i.minus.com/jQafjoUALBJ1u.jpg) (http://minus.com/lQafjoUALBJ1u)

Hmmmmm... what to do??... do I need to install the engine again?... I got a blue screen when I pressed quit... and after the windows reboot I tried to enter again.. and this appeared.What to do?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 28, 2012, 03:13:54 am
So far all reports point to buggy 310.xx drivers when used with older Nvidia cards (older than 400 series). What's yours?
Reverting to 306.97 drivers helps.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 03:19:52 am
Nvidia


.. hmmm... what?.. :D.. dunno... I have ATI... but probably you where not talking to me... but on my problem... after the restart from the blue screen... maybe something else did this... I think I opened some files from +X axis with note pad++ out of curiosity.. I replaced the entire 11GB of "Earth" folder that I had downloaded... but I'm not sure.. maybe it had something to do with the crash from the Blue Screen.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 03:27:01 am
I was doing research how to make some maps of my own with some specific landmarks... and poked around opening 2-3 files from /User/MyName/Outerra/Data/earth/+x ... the ".wad" , "base.desc" and "base.desc.hgt" files.But God if I know... how I will do some authentic maps like I describe them in my book.Any older posts known of that would give me some hints how to... what soft to use to get those maps... or some kind of guide if something like that exists :D?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 28, 2012, 03:34:29 am
Sorry, I didn't read it properly. The error says that iomap.cfg got corrupted, probably with the crash. Other files could have been corrupted as well.
It would be best to delete the data files and let them be regenerated.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 28, 2012, 03:46:59 am
I was doing research how to make some maps of my own with some specific landmarks... and poked around opening 2-3 files from /User/MyName/Outerra/Data/earth/+x ... the ".wad" , "base.desc" and "base.desc.hgt" files.But God if I know... how I will do some authentic maps like I describe them in my book.Any older posts known of that would give me some hints how to... what soft to use to get those maps... or some kind of guide if something like that exists :D?
MEDEM (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=843.0) guys are pioneering this area, and plan to document the process as well. Right now they are using a specially tailored hardwired import mode for it, but we plan to make a planet maker sw ultimately that will bring various methods of importing and creating terrains, once we find out the proper ways.

Hacking wad files ... "wad" is a short for "wavelet data", wavelet compressed terrain data in our format.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 03:56:42 am
That being said... I should wait for you guys and better direct my work on 3D models of things and programming scripts for some of the models.

But another idea would be to rise the sea level and the Earth is not recognisable anymore.How do I rise the sea level :D? ( btw.. sry for asking so many questions... I know you have a lot on your plate and your have other things to do... )
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 28, 2012, 04:03:40 am
How do I rise the sea level :D? ( btw.. sry for asking so many questions... I know you have a lot on your plate and your have other things to do... )

World.cfg in there is "sea-level = 0.0"

The change can be very insane http://imgur.com/a/2uV1N (http://imgur.com/a/2uV1N)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 28, 2012, 04:05:55 am
world.cfg, sea-level

Can be lowered as well, but that was buggy the last time I tried, but there were some fixes in culling since then.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 04:08:59 am
The change can be very insane

That looks nice :D... as long as it does not look like earth is fine with me ;D. Thx for that, to both of you!

And to be honest... there is too much land!!! Players would get land sick of that much land.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 28, 2012, 04:12:36 am
there is too much land!!! Players would get land sick of that much land.

Depends on the player. The whole point would be there is no place like home. Korean players might stay in Korea.. Mexicans in Mexico and Italians in Italy. If you want to go kick someones ass. Prepare for a damn journey!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 04:15:24 am
I will have giant flying birds.. dragons.. hug portals :D.. boats.. medieval tanks :D... it will be easy to travel... it will be more like.. "protect your land kind of thing".
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 28, 2012, 11:41:31 pm
I've been playing with the water lately.And I've made it almost transparent to a great depth, but there is a problem.. a visual one.

- (http://i.minus.com/jo7BHvGf9U9FX.jpg) (http://minus.com/lo7BHvGf9U9FX)

as you can observe everything is normal in this one from above... but.. I will advance with the camera just 1-2 meters in the next picture

- (http://i.minus.com/jba4pNodcPDFoP.jpg) (http://minus.com/lba4pNodcPDFoP)

see the difference? ... you can try to see yourself... the terrain is stretched.

I don't know what exactly is.. but when you have for example a building ( object ) under water on the sea floor and you go away from it.. it gets buried.Or an object at the surface, above sea level, when you go away from it the terrain seems to be disappearing.So basically is an opposite effect.Ah.. yep.. and even if u'r on a flat zone under the sea like 300-400 meters... that basically is a flat zone.. but it shows that you have a shore and you can go "up" .. but if you go in a horizontal line... the terrain flattens or disappears.. it is like ... just being created in that moment ( I know its procedural and it is supposed to be created, but 1 meter distance away to have major changes ... that is a lot! ).But the point from all of this : in the future can you do the terrain from under water to be static like the one from above sea level? and the one from above the sea level not to diminish when moving away from it and the one under sea not multiply? ( I can show you if you want :) with some other screenshots )
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 04:06:39 am
Superclear water is not supported :)
This has nothing to do with procedural aspect, it's an optimization of water rendering. Water surface is rendered as translucent only to some distance, then it gets replaced by a non-translucent water surface. These two must met at some point, so the sea floor connects to the surface at a distance.

Normally you can't see it if you use the normal water scattering and attenuation parameters, but if you tweak them so that it's no water anymore but rather a highly translucent liquid like an ether or something, then the hack shows.

Now, why do you want to have oceans of ether ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 04:22:01 am
Now, why do you want to have oceans of ether ...

No.. no,no,no,no... I wasn't talking about the water :D... I was talking about the terrain! :( ... its "buggy" ... the difference between those 2 screen shots... is like 2 meters.. I have not tilted the camera or come to close to those rocks... it just got enlarged by an high amount of surface... imagine pulling a rug and stretch it when you come to close to it... and if I have an object touching the ground on a hill.. if I go like 1 kilometer far away... you see the object floating in the air... and under the water.. the effect is reversed.... you see like an "U" shaped terrain even if you are on a plain terrain.. and if you have objects... the object as far as you go away from it.. it gets buried by the terrain.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 04:39:26 am
That's what I'm talking about. You wrote:
Quote
And I've made it almost transparent to a great depth, but there is a problem..
How did you make it almost transparent?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 04:59:59 am
Oh... well.. I just played with the settings... :

(http://i.minus.com/jhSMUATgwRwUo.jpg) (http://minus.com/lhSMUATgwRwUo)

and.. ( from another angle.. with some Sun light reflex )

(http://i.minus.com/jsfkGR9v5BYTp.jpg) (http://minus.com/lsfkGR9v5BYTp)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:01:22 am
But I think to recreate that "stretch" of the terrain rendering under water.. I think you need to raise the water level.. cause it works better with.. abrupt edges.. of mountains or hills.. :)... you will see the effect better.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:02:48 am
Yeah.. and I can't make those settings as default :( .. they always reset :(.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 05:21:14 am
... and to that I said that superclear water is not supported because ...
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:22:53 am
"the hack shows"  ;D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 05:28:40 am
Obviously you want to make the water clearer in order to see something underwater when the shores are steep, which they are because you elevated the sea level. Normally with steep shore you don't see the bottom, that's how it should be, but you probably want it to resemble normal shores, right? I think this will need an explicit adjustment, an artificial erosion, making shallow waters close to the shore when you adjust the sea level.

Only that on earth there are both types, applying it universally won't be good.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:32:12 am
Nope... none of those... I don't have a problem with the water :D... I have a problem with the terrain from under the water.

I was just giving feedback.. that the terrain from under the water does not react , its not the same.. the one from above is static and the terrain from under the water is "moving".
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:45:50 am
- Surface :



(http://i.minus.com/jbvQLTCRnS3jOT.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbvQLTCRnS3jOT)



- Underwater :



(http://i.minus.com/j5dTv3zOhDGTb.jpg) (http://minus.com/l5dTv3zOhDGTb)





See?... the terrain is eating from the model. The terrain must be underwater as it is at the surface. And I understand the lack of light, that looks nice, as it should be looking under water.The thing is as lower you go in the water... the worse it gets... walls of dirt form in front of you.If you go ahead they keep moving.. but if you have a building or submarine.. you can't see anything more then 1-2 meters. So basically that was my observation, the rendering under water is not good, maybe its because of the light or something else.I'm just pointing out stuff that I find.

Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 08:53:15 am
I explained that it's a rendering optimization hack that's not normally visible with default water settings.
What I'm going to do - I'll limit the transparency to realistic values, and voila, you won't be able to see it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 04:52:02 pm
you won't be able to see it.

That does not solve the problem if you want to build underwater or submarines... or maybe coral reefs , ocean life, fish, sharks, dolphins :( ( no dolphins :( ? ).  ;D
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 05:04:11 pm
It's just a rendering side-effect that should not be visible with normal water settings. Why it would be a problem when you can't see it affecting anything? You can see a shark only to some distance in the water. This terrain hack should appear even farther, meaning you can't see it unless you make the water more transparent artificially.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:06:28 pm
But even with artificial light underwater?
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 29, 2012, 05:17:46 pm
that should not be visible with normal water settings

[ B ] ?... seriously?.. :D

Eh... it is understandable ! I know you don't have the resources required to modify the core of your algorithm just to make the terrain from underwater and the water as it should be.There are more important matters like collision.My point was made, and I think the idea of it will be somewhere in the back of your head, and come back in a year or two and you will look in to it.  :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: cameni on December 29, 2012, 05:29:53 pm
As soon as it becomes an issue because of a strong artificial light source, it will be pushed farther. Scattering and attenuation of light in water is quite strong though, even with light sources like the sun, when looking at it perpendicularly to the water surface, after a few tens of meters it's darkness.

It's just a rendering optimization that you noticed because we allowed you to make the water more transparent. Believe me, there are lots of such optimizations everywhere in the engine that you don't see or would not see without some hacking of the scene. It's not something that I programed wrongly and need to fix - I did it on purpose, as a performance optimization. I don't know how else I should explain it.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Steve.Wilson on December 29, 2012, 05:59:14 pm
The more accurately that one wants to mimic Mother Nature, the more one pays a price in frames per second. :)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: PTTG on December 31, 2012, 03:38:00 pm
I get it. It's not a problem because it's really not a problem at all. It's like not painting the backside of a stage dressing in a play. Nobody is ever going to see it, and if someone sneaks backstage to look behind the backdrop, then it's their problem.
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on December 31, 2012, 05:41:49 pm
Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: KelvinNZ on January 03, 2013, 05:37:25 pm
"but if you have a building or submarine.. you can't see anything more then 1-2 meters."

I think you need a sonar for the submarine, and the building for that matter. This would be much more fun when seeking out enemies or waiting for them. If you want to see miles and miles then put your objects on the terrain   ;)
Title: Re: Development version: 0.7.12.3431
Post by: Midviki on January 04, 2013, 04:12:06 am
If you want to see miles and miles then put your objects on the terrain   ;)

It is not really realistic to see miles under water, but a few meters it is not a "biggie".At least as the terrain hack doesn't show.You probably saw on Tv.. discovery or any other channel, how you really see under water, it is depending on different parts of the world, more or less shallow.Maybe it can be more or less shallow with a method like the grass (when close more detail, when far less).For example in some zones you can set it on a perimeter that the water needs to be more clear or not.(or like "different kind of grass" ? ... different kind of plants growing.. in result >> a different kind of shallowness of the water ( ex: dirt shallowness , sand shallowness , pebble ... etc ( depending on the material you want to use). But enough said, if it will be not possible to make the engine more flexible on the water side, eventually I will probably need or.. others to develop water for different purposes, depending on what we need ( wild life in coral reefs or even intelligent life ).
Title: Re: (old) 0.7.12 version branch
Post by: cameni on January 04, 2013, 07:01:27 am
Merged the development version into the main line, new topic thread: 0.7.13 version (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1402.0)