Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Development screen shots and videos => Topic started by: cameni on August 27, 2010, 05:05:48 pm
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Because of multiple guys requesting Grand Canyon screenshots/videos, claiming that they don't care if it's filled with trees and with wrong rock pattern and textures on the walls currently, here's a quickly made video of a fast flight through it. Second part also with Google maps overlay.
Erosion style and rock texturing will be later determined by extended land class information, and driven by displacement maps characteristic for given rock type. This video will be deleted then :)
Canyon flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G9uX0QkKKU#ws)
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yeah. there's a strong resemblance)
don't you afraid that landclass data will be very huge?
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Because of multiple guys requesting Grand Canyon screenshots/videos, claiming that they don't care if it's filled with trees and with wrong rock pattern and textures on the walls currently, here's a quickly made video of a fast flight through it. Second part also with Google maps overlay.
Erosion style and rock texturing will be later determined by extended land class information, and driven by displacement maps characteristic for given rock type. This video will be deleted then :)
Just.....WOW!
I'll probably spend a hours upon hours just exploring once I get my hands on the demo.
Seriously....I'm mighty impressed!
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Great Stuff! I liked how you zoomed out at the end.
Even though you're planning on deleting later because there currently is only one land class, maybe you should upload this to MODDB. I'm pretty sure that most people don't mind the Grand Canyon looking like the Canadian Rockies knowing that Outerra is still early in developement.
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don't you afraid that landclass data will be very huge?
No, considerably smaller than elevation data - should be additional 100-300MB, and only a tiny portion of it will be used at one place on Earth.
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Even though you're planning on deleting later because there currently is only one land class, maybe you should upload this to MODDB. I'm pretty sure that most people don't mind the Grand Canyon looking like the Canadian Rockies knowing that Outerra is still early in developement.
Well, I don't like how it looks, and I've hesitated to post it too. It was created just because cshawnsmith and ZeosPanthera and some others asked for it and asserted that it's no problem. Still, it's a canyon profanation of a kind :D
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Not perfect, but amazing nonetheless!
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Well, I don't like how it looks, and I've hesitated to post it too. It was created just because cshawnsmith and ZeosPanthera and some others asked for it and asserted that it's no problem. Still, it's a canyon profanation of a kind
I almost blew my drink out of my nose when I read that last part lol.
I sort of liked this version of the Canyon, even if it was a bit of an unorthodox version. Now if I can just last long enough to see the final product :).
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It doesn't take much imagination to apply the correct terrain in your mind while watching this. Simply because of the detail of the contours, the accuracy of the elevation and scale perspective. Well done you guys, an amazing job, keep them coming.... now there is this ditch down the bottom of my garden, I'm sure it would make an excellent fly throu.........
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Because of multiple guys requesting Grand Canyon screenshots/videos, claiming that they don't care if it's filled with trees and with wrong rock pattern and textures on the walls currently, here's a quickly made video of a fast flight through it. Second part also with Google maps overlay.
Quick! Everyone start asking Cameni to make a video of a tatra driving down Mount Everest even though the truck will sink into the moutain side!
Nah just kidding. I think for this one it's better to wait for physics to use horizontally displaced terrain and also maybe for a damage model for the Tatra, although I'm sure it will still make for an entertaining video even with the truck sinking! :P
And great job being so active on the fourms answering everyones questions! You're building a very strong community.
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I go away for one day and look what I miss. Bravo.
It looks much as I suspected, very nice. The google maps overlay was a nice touch. Other than the Mariana trench http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench I cant think of any other REALLY profound spots on earth where it would be instantly recognizable from just the landscape.
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Actually, Watching this for the ump-teenth time I just realized the river is missing. So that brings up a good question. Will Outerra be getting its data for lakes, rivers and streams from the same resources as the terrain data and procedurally generating them?
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Rivers exist in vector form, so the riverbeds will be implemented as roads with a special profile, and a shader for water.
Lakes are different, terrain must be adjusted so it copies the bottom, and another water shader for surface.
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I really like this. Although, a true grand canyon rock color would impress even more.
But this is stunning.
For the rivers, will there be different sizes, too? Like the grand canyon river is a relatively big one. what about small rivers? will they be automatically vectorized, too? and of course then displayed according to its real size within the engine?
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Like the roads. Width is a parameter for each spline node so it can be widening downstream too.
Rivers will be created from the available vector data only, if you want to have a small local stream there it can be added simply as you would add a road. We won't be "vectorizing" rivers automatically (from what?), not for Earth. For artificial planets later, river creation will be a part of the coarse world creation algorithm.
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well I thought you generate the world from real world data, like google maps. and rivers would be recognized by your algorithm when computing.
am I totally wrong on that? :)
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yes yes .. totally wrong :)
I would not call Google maps a "real world data". Maps are maps, created from real world data. We are using raw elevation data, raw climate data, vector databases ..
To analyze a secondary stuff that was created from real world data with necessary loss of information during transformation would be costly, stupid and impossible (C.S.I.) :D
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lesson learned. thank you. :)
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Like the roads. Width is a parameter for each spline node so it can be widening downstream too.
Rivers will be created from the available vector data only, if you want to have a small local stream there it can be added simply as you would add a road. We won't be "vectorizing" rivers automatically (from what?), not for Earth. For artificial planets later, river creation will be a part of the coarse world creation algorithm.
Do you mean for each node rivers will have a constant width (ie parallel banks) for the length of the node? IMO I don't think this will look realistic.
In Open Street Map (OSM) the rivers are specified as a closed polygon (OSM uses this approach for lakes too). In fact a single river or lake can be comprised of any number of closed polygons, as long as those polygons meet along a common edge the river (or lake) will look correct when rendered. Additionally OSM allows relationships to be defined between polygons so that "islands" within rivers and lakes can be represented.
Have a look at this river in Bangkok, notice how non-uniform the opposite banks are.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=13.6819&lon=100.5396&zoom=14&layers=M
Please don't cripple rivers in Outerra by making them no more than wet "roads".
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Hmm I don't see anything special in there.
The banks won't be parallel, the width is interpolated between the nodes so that a general shape can be fitted. Banks won't be smooth and straight either; there is a transitional area where the road is blended with terrain, and if you put a water surface there the edge will be fractalish. I would not go for exact shapes as created in OSM for now - amount of data is much higher and since we are "inventing" detail below certain level anyway, it's unnecessary at the moment. Actually it's probably not the right approach anyway - for example short bays should be created as bays, a terrain modification with object placement. Requirements for maps (what OSM's are) are different from the requirements for 3D worlds so we can't go for 1:1 relation with OSM.
In fact I'm not sure to what extent the OSM data could be used here, for that matter.
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Requirements for maps (what OSM's are) are different from the requirements for 3D worlds so we can't go for 1:1 relation with OSM.
I wrote an OSM importer for FSX. Every polygon/polyline in the OSM data is there in FSX, ie it's an 1:1 correspondence.
It would be a real shame if the great free resource that is OSM cannot be leveraged for creating an accurate representation of the world in Outerra. This will dissuade many flight simmers who are use to products such as "Ultimate Terrain" and "Full Terrain X" for FSX, or even the upcoming XP10 which uses OSM extensively.
Please reconsider.
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How does it look from low heights or from the ground level?
I'm not saying it won't be supported, just that majority of river lengths don't need to be done that way and reusing the road system will be faster and it will render faster. Remember we want to create how the planet looked without the effect of civilization first, and have the effects of human work in a separate layer. That means the artificial banks and exact shapes there can be added by it, but the way they are added/supported must be such that the ground level detail generated from it looks right.
But I think it was you who applauded the approach of having the detail at all scales, I wonder how are you imagining it would work here with simply taking the polylines? All I am saying is that this will require a different approach than a simple map drawing.
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But I think it was you who applauded the approach of having the detail at all scales, I wonder how are you imagining it would work here with simply taking the polylines? All I am saying is that this will require a different approach than a simple map drawing.
Yes at low levels polylines (with long segments) don't look good except of course where they actually represent man made features such as docks or sea walls. For my FSX OSM importer I had been trying to identify which segments are man made and which natural so I could introduce some variation (extra points) to the natural segments and make them look better.
But still I hope you find some way to leverage OSM for adding the man made "layer" (docks, sea walls etc) of rivers, lakes and bays. Have a look at this 06 approach to RPLL over Manila Bay, the detail supplied by OSM for free is just amazing!
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.5282&lon=120.9747&zoom=13&layers=M
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Actually, all of this is moot. Man has redirected most rivers and streams and there is no way of telling Outerra to go naturally. I mean how is it going to handle the Hoover dam? or the Panama canal or any of Venice for that matter.
You would also need to remove the airport in japan they built out of the sea.
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Actually, all of this is moot. Man has redirected most rivers and streams and there is no way of telling Outerra to go naturally. I mean how is it going to handle the Hoover dam? or the Panama canal or any of Venice for that matter.
You would also need to remove the airport in japan they built out of the sea.
Which is why IMHO he must leverage OSM for games/sims that are meant to represent the modern world.
Flight simmers will be really put off if FSX & XP can use OSM to provide accuracy but Outerra can't.
I think I understand what he's saying about detail at ground level, but some way needs to found to use OSM and still provide high detail ("fractals") for those polyline segments that are meant to be natural and not man made.
It would be good to see some screen shots of how rivers/lakes and coastlines look in Outerra (with real-world comparisons) if possible. At the end of the day I'm sure Outerra will look as amazing in this respect as everything else we've seen so far!
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I have full confidence whatever system he implements for Outerra (regardless of the function, coastlines, wind, weather) it will surpass anything you can currently use in fsx or xp.
Just sit back, relax... and let the magic happen.
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Just sit back, relax... and let the magic happen.
< :cool:>
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Flight simmers will be really put off if FSX & XP can use OSM to provide accuracy but Outerra can't.
I think I understand what he's saying about detail at ground level, but some way needs to found to use OSM and still provide high detail ("fractals") for those polyline segments that are meant to be natural and not man made.
It would be good to see some screen shots of how rivers/lakes and coastlines look in Outerra (with real-world comparisons) if possible. At the end of the day I'm sure Outerra will look as amazing in this respect as everything else we've seen so far!
Could you please show us the results of your OSM importer for FSX on a few screenshots? I am really curious about that.
Problem with OSM is that it's intended for maps - it lacks height information which has to be reconstructed, and it contents with countours without encoding important details. We do not aim to provide world only for flight simulation but also for other kind of games which require much higher detail. This detail and visual quality simply cannot be achieved by raw OSM import. There is a lot of procedural stuff that has to be generated along with this data, for example the lamps and mile stones on roads.
But I am really curious what you think about that and also what quality is sufficient for flight simmers.
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Could you please show us the results of your OSM importer for FSX on a few screenshots? I am really curious about that.
About to leave for work, but will post later tonight.
In the meantime you could see what FSX users are used to with Ultimate Terrain.
http://www.scenerysolutions.com/ut_fsx_eur.html
http://www.scenerysolutions.com/ut_fsx_usa.html
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(http://www.scenerysolutions.com/media/utx_eur_morph_07.jpg)
(http://www.scenerysolutions.com/media/utx_eur_morph_08.jpg)
That pack does make FSX look better. But really even that is not that impressive. I mean your looking at all these screens from 1000 feet up and 1 mile away. Outerra needs to look good from space to the ground where I am standing. So I am sure as good as the ground "needs" to look from the height of an aircraft it needs to look much better from the height of a car doing 60 and especially for a man walking around looking down.
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Could you please show us the results of your OSM importer for FSX on a few screenshots? I am really curious about that.
Manila bay, RPLL and Makati district (notice I place "concrete" to show building footprints)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5254/2010102374512.th.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/2010102374512.jpg/)
Same area from different angle, showing also the dock area
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6338/20101023921645.th.jpg) (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/20101023921645.jpg/)
Looking north of Manila, coastline/rivers.
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1254/201010231114308.th.jpg) (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/201010231114308.jpg/)
Not done much work on the OSM importer for months... seems to me there's quite a few ways to improve the generated scenery by considering things such as road density and applying urban landclass in areas with high density, maybe also consider elevation data to ensure mountain sides are covered in forest and not cropland as FSX tends to do by default.
Many ideas, so little time. :(
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MatthewS- You may be interested in the work I've done in FSX using various vector data too- See www.vectorlandclass.co.nz (http://www.vectorlandclass.co.nz)
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MatthewS- You may be interested in the work I've done in FSX using various vector data too- See www.vectorlandclass.co.nz (http://www.vectorlandclass.co.nz)
Very impressive!
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Because of multiple guys requesting Grand Canyon screenshots/videos, claiming that they don't care if it's filled with trees and with wrong rock pattern and textures on the walls currently, here's a quickly made video of a fast flight through it. Second part also with Google maps overlay.
Erosion style and rock texturing will be later determined by extended land class information, and driven by displacement maps characteristic for given rock type. This video will be deleted then :)
[youtube2]9G9uX0QkKKU[/youtube2]
Very impressive.
Also the fact that the engine is still in the early development phase...thumbs up. :)