Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: ZeosPantera on September 18, 2010, 03:33:10 am
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This thread will have a very simple point. Just take what you know about Outerra and describe what "Game" you would like to play out in the world.
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My idea is pretty simple. Back in the day I was a HUGE fan of Interstate76. Auto Vigilante combat at its finest. The maps were huge sprawling desert roads through what 1997 graphics could call mountains. The year is 1976 and you are recruited to take the place of your recently deceased sister and avenge her death. You join her partner Taurus and mechanic Skeeter to continue their mission of revenge and proceed to murder crooked cops and other baddies with your armored up and armed muscle cars until you find the man who killed her.
Here is the intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iuGgxtkiSE&fmt=34
The game had a good story, just the right amount of humor and at the time realistic driving physics. Oh, and you "never get out of the car"..
Now, 13 years later I envision a massive multiplayer version. Baddies, Creepers, Vigilantes, Crooked cops all playing "Somewhere in the Southwest". MMO's are all elf, middle-earth cookie cutters of wow. Put some realistic driving physics and ballistics to work in the Desert areas of outerra and I can see gangs being formed, Drug cartel's taking over and You will need to choose who you are in this hellhole. Hundreds of miles could separate your next target. Maybe you need to protect a convoy carrying precious fuel for a long haul. Get the munitions from the airport. Fly the plane back over to Mexico. Etc Etc
I am sure more will come to me with this concept. I will edit this post with my ideas.
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Now you post your ideas for use of the OT engine.
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I remember Interstate76 as well, spent a lot of time playing it a long time ago. MMO in this setting would be very nice.
Personally I'd prefer multiple simulator with civil aviation sim, auto and train sim, and sea vehicles sim in the OT world, in MMO setting as well. We already have IVAO and VATSIM nets for avsims, where some people prefer to fly aircraft and some to work in the control tower, so we would see something similar in the sim-game on the OT engine.
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The concept is not exactly the same but it reminds me of recent news of Realtime World's APB MMO closing down (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65611) after only two and half months. A rather unbelievable insider story of how it all went down after acquiring $100m investment can be found on Luke Halliwell's blog (http://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/).
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Realtime Worlds has been bought by Epic Games so this isn not an end.
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Realtime Worlds has been bought by Epic Games so this isn not an end.
Of course it's not an end (at least from gamers' perspective), assets have been sold to pay for the debts to creditors.
From developer's point of view it certainly shows that MMO's are very risky business nowadays, and also the levels of incompetence that can break any such project.
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Agree. But there won't be such APB - Epic'll do their own. So this is the end in some way.
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This thread will have a very simple point. Just take what you know about Outerra and describe what "Game" you would like to play out in the world.
Now you post your ideas for use of the OT engine.
I would like this game to be a massive sandbox game where you can build your own world(a bit like Gmod but way bigger) and basicly you would be able to do anything you want, fly planes, make citys, and everything, download items you want and create your world with it.
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Somehow the magic of Minecraft must be applied to outerra.
It is the gaming equivalent of popping bubble wrap.
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I would make a FPS/MMO/flight/simulator/sandbox game that simulated the whole earth, with spaceships that can take you to anywhere in the world quickly.
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with spaceships that can take you to anywhere in the world quickly.
I was thinking teleportation. But that would negate the whole purpose of having the entire world. People would end up in 5-6 square miles across a handful of teleports. Getting from North America to Australia realistically however would take several multi-hour flights.
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Or just something like noclip from Garry's Mod that acts the same way as Outerra's free camera controller.
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New to the forums, but I've been following this for a while and I'm extremely excited for the demo. :)
I think it would be pretty cool if it was possible to have the roads (at least in some places) created with real life road maps, but I have no idea if this is possible without doing it manually, but then again, I had no idea you could great this with topographical maps or whatever. :P If not, after a ton of exploring, I'd work on trying to recreate the roads by my house. :D
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New to the forums, but I've been following this for a while and I'm extremely excited for the demo. :)
I think it would be pretty cool if it was possible to have the roads (at least in some places) created with real life road maps, but I have no idea if this is possible without doing it manually, but then again, I had no idea you could great this with topographical maps or whatever. :P If not, after a ton of exploring, I'd work on trying to recreate the roads by my house. :D
It should be absolutely possible. Though it may screw up some of the terrain because the road maker limits the slope the roads can have and I am pretty sure tunnels and bridges would freak it out.
Had a though of how to get around earth in a cool way. A spawn-able cannon you climb in and tell in the Lat/Lon cords you want. And it fires you with perfect trajectory to the spot you want. You would most likely get into the upper atmosphere for a short bit before descending with a tree smashing bounce.
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I think it would be pretty cool if it was possible to have the roads (at least in some places) created with real life road maps, but I have no idea if this is possible without doing it manually, but then again, I had no idea you could great this with topographical maps or whatever. :P If not, after a ton of exploring, I'd work on trying to recreate the roads by my house. :D
Should be possible later with OSM (http://www.openstreetmap.org/) import, although probably it will have to be fine tuned and fixed manually too.
It should be absolutely possible. Though it may screw up some of the terrain because the road maker limits the slope the roads can have and I am pretty sure tunnels and bridges would freak it out.
Tunnels and bridges aren't supported yet, but road maker limiting the slope? Can't remember where this came from, hmm.
Had a though of how to get around earth in a cool way. A spawn-able cannon you climb in and tell in the Lat/Lon cords you want. And it fires you with perfect trajectory to the spot you want. You would most likely get into the upper atmosphere for a short bit before descending with a tree smashing bounce.
Hah, that could be a game in itself :)
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road maker limiting the slope? Can't remember where this came from, hmm.
I thought you said that somewhere.. So doesn't that mean you could have vertical roads if you found a steep enough slope?
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Roads are baked to terrain so they can have the same slope.
But now I know what you mean - I think there was some limit on how high the road can be from the lowest point on the terrain tile (2.5km x 2.5km). I think it was 512 meters .. or 1km? But it can be fixed if it ever becomes a problem.
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New to the forum here- so I'll probably only repeat whats been put forth already...I see Outerra coming to full potential somewhat as a universal inde developer's mall...a platform providing ultimate interlinked game variety- attracting the vast numbers (who would not be inclined otherwise) to participate in purchasing whole games as add-ons for their main hobby interest--opportunities to develop in this direction certainly could be nothing short of a win-win for everyone concerned with sim.
Countless have pondered how great it would be to go from one game into another, joining the best of different virtual worlds- without shutting down the PC or having to open a new program!
As a flight simmer, I'd be more than a little enthused to purchase specialty transportation and railway games if they were interactive (which I would not do otherwise) for the added immersion factor of flight simming. The sheer magnitude of this endeavor would certainly dwarf a single company yet could be easily accomplished by many developers from various specialty parts of the industry consolidated in a "one" world platform. No brainer to determine a literal transformation of simming as we know it...
Of course on a smaller scale this has been going on for years in FSX as well as many other game types- inde's such as FTX (truly outstanding company) getting on board adding their wares to enhance basic foundation code . A new approach would go much further involving unrelated game venues together in a completely interactive environment across the board-- bringing about a much deeper immersion experience for everyone.
In the wake of this the entire game industry most certainly would find an exciting new market niche incorporating "universally compatible" code into their product simply to make it go both ways- either as a stand alone product or with the added capability of being joined together with other games in a one world interactive platform.
To name just a few of the special ones "Celestia" and "The Hunter" easily come to mind-and when combined with the outstanding Outerra engine- would have to be a marriage made in virtual heaven...
The concept of leasing mall space for developer shops in Outerra should be very attractive indeed-- as many store shops unified in a central mall have a much bigger and better chance for success than those separated and inconveniently isolated from the rest---
Joseph L.
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Lat/Lon-Gun good for demo but for final version it will be cheat-machine I suppose.
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As a flight simmer, I'd be more than a little enthused to purchase specialty transportation and railway games if they were interactive (which I would not do otherwise) for the added immersion factor of flight simming. The sheer magnitude of this endeavor would certainly dwarf a single company yet could be easily accomplished by many developers from various specialty parts of the industry consolidated in a "one" world platform.
Yes, definitely it would come with that synergetic effect. I'm just a little bit worried how such a mall will be able to combine the commercial and freeware/open source content into one platform, from the legal viewpoint. For example, I know that freeware simulators mostly don't need to bother with brand recognition, whereas lawyers are likely to go after commercial ones unless the rights were obtained, that kind of thing.
What we'd like to achieve is that you'd be able to see an Airbus by, say, Aerosoft, even when you didn't buy the plugin yet. That would be like an unobtrusive in game advertisement - you see a plane at an airport, you want it - you buy it online in-game, a plugin for its systems simulation is downloaded on the background and you are able to fly it right there. Same with any other kind of vehicles or activities. Content such as airports is different, but it too can be shown as downloadable content in-place, with automatic trials or in prepaid packages where you are paying only for the content you are actually using, etc etc.
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Yes, definitely it would come with that synergetic effect. I'm just a little bit worried how such a mall will be able to combine the commercial and freeware/open source content into one platform, from the legal viewpoint. For example, I know that freeware simulators mostly don't need to bother with brand recognition, whereas lawyers are likely to go after commercial ones unless the rights were obtained, that kind of thing.
Of course on a smaller scale this has been going on for years in FSX as well as many other game types- inde's such as FTX (truly outstanding company) getting on board adding their wares to enhance basic foundation code . A new approach would go much further involving unrelated game venues together in a completely interactive environment across the board-- bringing about a much deeper immersion experience for everyone.
In the above quote concerning FTX using FSX foundation code successfully building it's own company, I should have mentioned John Venema's (Orbx CEO) "giving back to the community" policy by providing ample amounts of high quality freeware along with it's much acclaimed payware, thus fostering trust and respect of the entire user base in keeping a right balance. Referring to this excellent model base would, in my opinion, be most helpful as a legal area reference as well as others...
Starting a trial run to test and prove the interactive concept with several willing game companies participating on Outerra's base engine (who have everything to gain and nothing to lose) would be a good starting place to work thru details. In the beginning nothing more involved here than simple agreements initially between participating parties as "beta testers"-- until the concept is proven to everyone's satisfaction and gradually refined as a viable market development. In the meanwhile posting internet progress in such an endeavor is sure to bring in a storm of excitement-- creating (as you put it), a synergy throughout the entire gaming industry, with clients more than willing to work thru any legal agreements involved, setting up shop in Outerra's earth mall...
Sooner this is pioneered and off the ground, the better for everyone's pocket book in the industry, along with the countless simmers awaiting such a development...
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I suggest Flight Simulator :))
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Well just think about a large scale future battleground.. Moon Bases.. Lasers.
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Well just think about a large scale future battleground.. Moon Bases.. Lasers.
The stuff my dreams for this engine are made of. =D
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Hey everyone I am new to this site and am currently looking for an engine. I am very interested in what Outerra shows in its ability to render space to ground in detail. and by the vids making roads seams very easy as well. I have not seen any water yet and that is important for my project to design a mech game that will allow colonization of multiple solar systems. That is what I am looking to use this for. A couple of questions thiough. Is it possible to render celestial objects like moons. Is there water, and how do I get the software.
thx
Dwell
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Hi, the engine is still in development and it's not generally available yet.
There's no water rendering at the moment, apart from simple plane with some reflection. It will be added at later stages.
Other celestial bodies will be supported, with seamless transition between them.
However, initially we will support only Earth, then later Moon and Mars and other planets for which there are data; artificial randomly generated planets will be only possible in a later version.
Btw the planet is huge and a game colonizing it will probably have to be huge as well. Seeing the scale, I'm wondering how such a game would work ..
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Would the engine be able to support up to 1000 people online? With a world that huge, even 1000 people wouldn't be enough.
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Would the engine be able to support up to 1000 people online? With a world that huge, even 1000 people wouldn't be enough.
I think so, but supporting 1000 or more people is a job for the server itself, not the graphics engine.
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Would the engine be able to support up to 1000 people online? With a world that huge, even 1000 people wouldn't be enough.
I think so, but supporting 1000 or more people is a job for the server itself, not the graphics engine.
Well if they were very far apart they wouldn't really need to be present on the same map just in contact with everyone else. Makes me think a server farm with 100 gigabit connections per box then connected via Fibre to the other 9 boxes could establish a decent 1000 man server.
I wonder if the torrent protocol could help with this?
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1000 players spread on the whole planet aren't a problem, but it will become one when they all decide to go to a particular place. To a race or to another event.
Bittorrent won't help here, but a specifically tailored P2P technique might. P2P generally makes the more sought content more available. That would mean that the participants of the fest will have to become kind of dynamic servers for others. With global management infrastructure that would help interconnecting groups of players that are near each other. But then it also becomes more prone to cheating, so it's a complex problem when it should be made robust.
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then it also becomes more prone to cheating
Hrm. Cheating in outerra does not compute? Are you thinking about it in terms for a simple game mode or location hacks because your acting as a mini-server. Or would you rather not say because there is no point in giving bad ideas to anyone?
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Um, I can't say I'm parsing what you are saying.
I wasn't referring specifically to Outerra, but to the networking architecture. If you were making say a racing game, and P2P was used to sync objects across the participating clients without an authoritative server that computes the physics and distributes the updates, you would need some additional mechanisms to detect cheating clients.
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Um, I can't say I'm parsing what you are saying.
I wasn't referring specifically to Outerra, but to the networking architecture. If you were making say a racing game, and P2P was used to sync objects across the participating clients without an authoritative server that computes the physics and distributes the updates, you would need some additional mechanisms to detect cheating clients.
In other words, no gamer can be trusted ;)
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It is good for any military simulation if the physical engine can handle somehow ballistics and aerodynamics. Maybe this is the first enginge that makes possible to create with same engine a land and air based simulator.
Can I have some questions? I'm very curious.
- Is there any targetted goal for this enginge or it is just a techdemo?
- Is there any big financial support (publisher to release something) to achive the goal?
- How big is the development team? Is there a team?
- Currently the engine can handle somehow the previously mentioned issues?
- Do you need testers? :)
It is a big misery to me that this engine how could be hidden for the great publicity. How could happen that on youtube your videos have not reached the millions of visitors. This engine is far the best that I ever seen. Every other that I have seen in my life were only a bad joke compare with this.
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It is a big misery to me that this engine how could be hidden for the great publicity. How could happen that on youtube your videos have not reached the millions of visitors. This engine is far the best that I ever seen. Every other that I have seen in my life were only a bad joke compare with this.
Yeah I always kind of wondered the same thing. I thought that by word of mouth Outerra would become very well known in the gaming world.
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I thought that by word of mouth Outerra would become very well known in the gaming world.
As much as I want to rub the development of this engine into the faces of larger developers and their userbase on their respective forums as a sort of "Your all doing it wrong" campaign. I hesitate most of the time http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/192-rFactor3-Dream-Big-Dream-Outerra?p=1960
I worry for a few reasons.
A) if 2,000 people joined this forums all our "good" suggestions and questions would be buried so far under piles of dren that it would feel as if we had all been moved to the nose-bleeds section of the stadium amidst several thousand screaming idiots.
B) with more people comes more pressure. I have the patience of a stone in a glassier on the surface of Pluto. If this engine needs 2 more years to go into testing then let it. I don't wish to see it rushed just for the sake of peer pressure.
C) Worst case scenario is M$ or a similar company after seeing the following OT has started attracting decide to just buy OT of from under all of us and bin it immediately so that their is no chance for a competitor to have it and they don't need to divert from their current lesser engines with alot of hassle and time. Am I a pessimist? yes
Feel free to fill in D E and F yourselves.
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Is there any targetted goal for this enginge or it is just a techdemo?
Yes the engine is to be used in several game and non-game projects, but it's still in development so anything may change.
Is there any big financial support (publisher to release something) to achive the goal?
How big is the development team? Is there a team?
Not a big financial support, we are advancing in small steps (business-wise). The team is thus small at the moment.
Currently the engine can handle somehow the previously mentioned issues?
Um, which ones do you have in mind?
Do you need testers? :)
The demo will be basically our testing phase, in this regard the community of this size suits us well :)
It is a big misery to me that this engine how could be hidden for the great publicity. How could happen that on youtube your videos have not reached the millions of visitors. This engine is far the best that I ever seen. Every other that I have seen in my life were only a bad joke compare with this.
Well, you know, the engine so far mainly shows the potential. Most of you can get over the fact that the trees are simple at the moment, that there are just a few terrain materials etc etc, because you can extrapolate and imagine what could become of it. But for most developers and gamers the complete feature set is essential, so they would view it now just as a technology demo, not really considering it until there's something more.
That said, we have been contacted by several developers that too can imagine what may become of this, and we are talking about their requirements and evaluating stuff. The future is bright. Unless we perish on the way, of course :)
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Um, which ones do you have in mind?
Is it capable to handle aerodynamic forces or ballistic modelling for bullets, artillery shells or unguided rockects? What about radar (this is one of the hardest), RWR, ground clutter, IR signiture AI eyball, ect. modeling for a hardcore sim? If currently it does not do you have ideas or plans to ensure this?
Most of you can get over the fact that the trees are simple at the moment, that there are just a few terrain materials etc etc, because you can extrapolate and imagine what could become of it.
The trees are enough good to my eyes. :)
The very well detailed terrain - especially if it has self shadows - is that in unquie. I have never seen so beautiful terrain except FPS, but an FPS game does not require so big maps as Earh or just continents for flight sims.
Yes, I can see the big potential your work. It is not big. It is HUGE!
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Is it capable to handle aerodynamic forces or ballistic modelling for bullets, artillery shells or unguided rockects? What about radar (this is one of the hardest), RWR, ground clutter, IR signiture AI eyball, ect. modeling for a hardcore sim? If currently it does not do you have ideas or plans to ensure this?
Well, currently we are focusing on the terrain rendering and connected things, which are important for the engine's usability in various target apps, but we are also integrating other functionality along the way - mostly for demonstrative purposes at the moment.
At the time we do not have resources to implement all the functionality that a hardcore simulator will require, so we are including stuff that helps to show what is possible. At the same time it must not be overly taxing our resources, as we have to implement core rendering features first. Specific functionality will be developed on demand for our customers, but we are selecting our customers so that their demands are not unrealistic :)
Many of the features you mention can be also developed in coordination with them - we would be providing the low level functionality that will make it easier, while they would be implementing the high level part. As an example, damage modeling would consist of collision feedback functions that we can provide more effectively, but the actual damage response will be handled in the game code.
BTW we did test some ballistic modeling already, and AFAIK JSBSim includes flight dynamics models for rockets as well.
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A) if 2,000 people joined this forums all our "good" suggestions and questions would be buried so far under piles of dren that it would feel as if we had all been moved to the nose-bleeds section of the stadium amidst several thousand screaming idiots.
As a counterpoint, I want to say that I've seen too many forums wrecked by unfriendliness and unwritten rules, which IMO can occur when sentiments like this occur. We can't protect our own ideas at the expense of other people's ideas.
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A) if 2,000 people joined this forums all our "good" suggestions and questions would be buried so far under piles of dren that it would feel as if we had all been moved to the nose-bleeds section of the stadium amidst several thousand screaming idiots.
As a counterpoint, I want to say that I've seen too many forums wrecked by unfriendliness and unwritten rules, which IMO can occur when sentiments like this occur. We can't protect our own ideas at the expense of other people's ideas.
Its not that I don't want to see new people. I just want those new people to come slowly to see how it is done. If 10 new people joined a discussion with the same damaging mindset then that threads topic would become moot.
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If 10 new people joined a discussion with the same damaging mindset then that threads topic would become moot.
I just don't see that happening, unless this place gets raided. Which it won't; it's too technical for most trolls to try.
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Many of the features you mention can be also developed in coordination with them - we would be providing the low level functionality that will make it easier, while they would be implementing the high level part. As an example, damage modeling would consist of collision feedback functions that we can provide more effectively, but the actual damage response will be handled in the game code.
Does this mean that the modeling is seprated to different modeling levels or paralell modeling modules can be used later that can be linked?
I just chack the Himalayes trip video. It is so wonderful that I almost cried. :)
The choosen music were quite good.
Can I make a recommendtaion fro future previews?
http://www.greensunmusic.com/
You can find many wonderful music for preview videos. (My favorite is the First Birth form Dream Elements album.) Some music from Green Sun in only available at this site as a stream mp3, but you can save them if you record the line out signal of sound card.
Other good materials can be found here.
http://www.amethystium.com/
This is my favorite from this band.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er-E31qnZaU
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Can I make a recommendtaion fro future previews?
http://www.greensunmusic.com/
Um, can't find a licensing info there. Anyway, we often need separate loops so we can adjust the song length and fit it to the videos better. We are currently using the tracks from ibaudio.com (http://www.ibaudio.com/) that are suited precisely for that kind of handling.
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I would turn it into Half life 2 only it never ends! You just get better and better weapons, and there is no storyline to follow, just you trying to make your own way in the world.
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The music you used in the Earth Fly-by (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=104) video is by far my favorite from all the Outerra videos.
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"turn it into Half life 2" "no storyline to follow"
May be missing the point of HL2. But I think I get what you were ... getting at.
Load world..
Load geopolitical climate (ie Combine Overwatch)
Walk around in realtime with AI interactions and SOME pre-scripted "events" such as the rebel raid on the city 19 citadel or taking a transfer train IN REAL TIME to stockholm.
I can see the appeal but dont think the programmers exist to make it happen.
Besides I would..
Load world..
Load geopolitical climate (Hot alien women forcing all men and women into breeding camps)
XXXX XXX XXXXXX sausage XXX X XXXXXX mother XXX X XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX Explosion!
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Load world..
Load geopolitical climate (Hot alien women forcing all men and women into breeding camps)
XXXX XXX XXXXXX sausage XXX X XXXXXX mother XXX X XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX Explosion!
Huh?!?!
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Load world..
Load geopolitical climate (Hot alien women forcing all men and women into breeding camps)
XXXX XXX XXXXXX sausage XXX X XXXXXX mother XXX X XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX Explosion!
ROTFL!!!!!
Been there, done that :D
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Immagine Half Life 2 after the events in city 17, Gordon would be free right? that's what I was talking about. Free roam in a near-future setting.
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I am still waiting for a war simulator that takes place on a realtime single persistent world. You join. Warp into an AI's place at the battlefront.. Fight die warp and then leave and go to bed. The next day you may be joining into that same fight or if it is over another unit. All one general server. So if you and 10 buddies get online you can take over a whole platoon and go ape-sh|t for a few hours to try and further the war effort. And you can only be on one side for the entirety of your gaming experience. So choose wisely.
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I think Battleground Europe (http://www.battlegroundeurope.com) is something like that.
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Have any dev team or publisher "checked in"? Is there a feedbeack about "this is what we need when "it will be done"?
What about support different VGA? I saw some screens about VGA issues. Are they solved?
Oh, what about water or underwater modeling? :)
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Yes, several developers from multiple industries "checked in", we can't complain about lack of interest from this side either. However, the engine and technology being new and incomplete, working out some contracts will take some time.
VGA? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_%28disambiguation%29) Do you mean support of graphics chips other than Nvidia's? AMD issues aren't solved yet, still working with them to address the bugs in OpenGL 3.3 functionality in their drivers.
Water and underwater modeling is planned as well.
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@molnibalage: So you are a Magyar, huh? I won't be replying that quickly the next time!
:lol: just kidding, could not resist after seeing this (http://www.sg.hu/listazas_msg.php3?id=1114537900&no=33630) :lol:
Silly :D
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Hey, what scouts you have! :)
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(http://macaulay.cuny.edu/eportfolios/bernstein08/files/2008/12/atomic-bomb.jpg)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/2010-11-07_123811.png)
Best First Post Ever//
Saved
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There's another theme for this forum? And how can I switch it on?
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There's another theme for this forum? And how can I switch it on?
If your using Firefox go grab the addon "No Squint" It allows per site adjustment of Page zoom, text zoom and most importantly Page and text colors. Can't live without a black Youtube. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/2010-09-07_142345.jpg
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Can't live without a black Youtube. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/2010-09-07_142345.jpg
Aw... I wish I could watch videos online in 1080p... P4 & 1.28mbps FTL. :( :P
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I would play DEFCON with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cwIk327cSk
Generate a few major cities as bases and launch ICBMs all over the world.
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I would play DEFCON with it.
Not sure if this is needed for a game like that one. You probably won't need the ground level detail, in fact I'd say you won't need the cities to be modeled, but just as textures.
Unless you want to see the damage in detail, but modeling and simulating that won't be anywhere easy. Considering that it's not important for the gameplay itself ..
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I would play DEFCON with it.
Not sure if this is needed for a game like that one. You probably won't need the ground level detail, in fact I'd say you won't need the cities to be modeled, but just as textures.
Unless you want to see the damage in detail, but modeling and simulating that won't be anywhere easy. Considering that it's not important for the gameplay itself ..
Simply, I mean just playing nuclear war against other player.
Btw, another thing I'd like to see is a destruction of a planet, would that be too massive?
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Btw, another thing I'd like to see is a destruction of a planet, would that be too massive?
Depends on what you imagine behind the destruction of a planet. I've read (http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1023847-The-Outerra-Engine-The-whole-world-in-a-sandbox.-Warning-High-res-pictures.) that some imagine it like splitting the planet in half :D
Nothing like that, can't even quite imagine simulating it.
But making huge craters and turning the surface into a moonscape would be possible, although it will require some specific code that isn't there yet.
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Btw, another thing I'd like to see is a destruction of a planet, would that be too massive?
Heh, that's exactly the same thing request on the Infinity forums from some of the newbies to their game engine.
I've played DEFCON myself ... very fun and interesting game, especially in office mode :D Would be a VERY interesting modification to the engine, if someone had the stamina to try to do it.
Next vehicle, Cameni, should be a Harley ... some sort of touring bike, made for comfort :). Would love to travel the Earth on one, even though I don't have the slightest idea how to really drive a bike :P
The only other thing I could ask for would be a Kwai Chang Kane model to "walk the Earth" like in the Kung Fu TV series :D Of course, we'd have to add the background music while walking through the deserts hehe. And while you're at it, you HAVE to add a couple of saloons with gambling, so I can order water and have the patrons try to fight me.
Sorry, been watching too many reruns lately on TV :D
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Having been involved in the user community for OFP/ArmA since it first came out, large scale terrain is very interesting. Since I've started working in VBS2 (the military simulator version of ArmA1) these things have become even more interesting to me.
What would I do with Outerra? Something along the lines of VBS2, except geared towards battalion/regiment level training in combined operations. JTAC/FAC and Forward Observer training in the VBS2/ArmA2 engine is possible, but usually the level of detail has to be slashed on one side or the other, and for VBS2/ArmA2 it is the flight engine.
I posted a comment on the blog about HLA, and seeing Outerra implemented as literally just a planetary engine with the basic rules of physics applied (or not even that) and letting other systems join in built by different developers using a distributed architecture would be amazing and open a lot of training possibilities. Especially being able to be used in semi-trusted environments like training facilities you could implement lots of distributed network architectures like mentioned earlier in the thread with greater ease.
For example, details for a pilot on individual ground troop movements could be ignored in larger situations or made more granular, while the aircrafts flight and weapons state would only need to be broadcast to the people on the ground. All of these could be run on different machines or facilities tailored to those specific simulations.
I think engines like Outerra and other groups/companies working in the planetary engine field are the future for military training. I am very excited to see what the future has in store!
One technical question I have is for things like the low level fractal generation of micro terrain details. If for example you were to emplace trenches, do you have something in the works for making sure that trenches are able to be integrated into the terrain at a distance, at least in terms of interaction with projectiles or other physical phenomenon? The big issue in ArmA's engine has always been, at least to myself, that at distance things like clutter are lost, tall grasses are not draw, etc. My worry is that unlike ArmA where the terrain mesh is static (for the most part, at least when going up in detail), Outerra might have issues where AI or human players would be behind some sort of physical embankment or trench and it would be rendered differently to players further away.
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We've heard about HLA already, actually Robert who is cooperating with us in the field of military related stuff has been advocating it to us for quite some time. However, I feel we can't go into this without some investment from a partner that would drive it towards a product for this area, otherwise it would be a risky business - not enough experiences for it and not enough resources to focus just on that.
But yes, it's definitely one of areas that could benefit from Outerra.
As for your question - Outerra generates terrain and textures dynamically, using fractals to fill in the missing detail, but then it also applies vector data such as roads (trenches could be just a kind of road) that are applied to each LOD level. So if there's a trench at a distance that is still visible for given quality setting and LOD metrics, it will be applied. Effectively this means that if one sets a sub-pixel quality - objects and features disappearing when their size falls below pixel size on the screen - one can't see the switch.
Another thing is how LOD is handled. Good LOD management and seamless switching are key aspects here too. For example the trees are drawn as billboards until they are just a few pixels high, when it switches to a color layer. When we will do a corn field or high grass, distant LODs will actually draw the upper surface there, that includes the vegetation. If there is a soldier hidden within, he will be effectively under the mesh for distant LODs that do not render the grass blades or blocks individually anymore, and thus still invisible.
I think it's actually an advantage to have the system designed like this, instead of relying on static meshes and classic LOD approaches.
As for the physics, for simulation purposes we always use a constant terrain detail. Terrain for collisions and physics can be generated independently from what is being rendered, these two things do not relate.
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I think Battleground Europe (http://www.battlegroundeurope.com) is something like that.
Yes WWII Online (or Battleground Europe as it has been renamed) is so far IMO the only game that would fully take into use the awesomeness of this engine.
The developers are not that keen (or so it would seem, there are some techincal stuff that I for obvious reasons do not know about hindering it) on moving away from their own developed game/graphics/terrain engine etc....
It is my hope that they WILL one day re-think and realise that this engine has everything they could possibly wish for (or so it would seem from what I have read).
IMO it could be taken further, but the genre that would get the most of this engine is indeed the warfare simulation genre, as you get the air, land and sea all rolled into one - but it would not make much sense if you did not go MMO for it as well...
What would I do with this engine then?
Well I would go the MMO warfare simulation way also.
The era is not so important, that is more a money question (everyone knows that the WWII type of games are the big sellers) - but a newer era game would get more out of this.
One could only imagine a scene out of Red Storm Rising with a F-15 moving to its maximum altitude to bust a satelitte come to play here.
But IMO any game that is so detailed would require MORE than just the "action" part - a seperate game would be needed (in cooperation with the "action" part off course) - since you cannot (or at least I cannot) imagine such a complex type of game be effecient or even organized without a strategic part - so for these players (the generals) a seperate type of game would need to be developed - a game where they in a typical strategy type environment would be able to operate based on input from the "action" part, and the "action" part act on the orders from the "strategy" part.
I have always had a thing for the old NATO vs Warsaw pact scenarios myself - and making a simulation based on that scenario would get the most out of such an engine as this one - again IMO (just imagine a tactical nuke blast a hole in the front - how awesome would that look using this engine)
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We've heard about HLA already, actually Robert who is cooperating with us in the field of military related stuff has been advocating it to us for quite some time. However, I feel we can't go into this without some investment from a partner that would drive it towards a product for this area, otherwise it would be a risky business - not enough experiences for it and not enough resources to focus just on that.
But yes, it's definitely one of areas that could benefit from Outerra.
As for your question - Outerra generates terrain and textures dynamically, using fractals to fill in the missing detail, but then it also applies vector data such as roads (trenches could be just a kind of road) that are applied to each LOD level. So if there's a trench at a distance that is still visible for given quality setting and LOD metrics, it will be applied. Effectively this means that if one sets a sub-pixel quality - objects and features disappearing when their size falls below pixel size on the screen - one can't see the switch.
Another thing is how LOD is handled. Good LOD management and seamless switching are key aspects here too. For example the trees are drawn as billboards until they are just a few pixels high, when it switches to a color layer. When we will do a corn field or high grass, distant LODs will actually draw the upper surface there, that includes the vegetation. If there is a soldier hidden within, he will be effectively under the mesh for distant LODs that do not render the grass blades or blocks individually anymore, and thus still invisible.
I think it's actually an advantage to have the system designed like this, instead of relying on static meshes and classic LOD approaches.
As for the physics, for simulation purposes we always use a constant terrain detail. Terrain for collisions and physics can be generated independently from what is being rendered, these two things do not relate.
I agree with you on HLA, its not something you'd want to invest your time in unless it was for a specific purpose. The good thing though is that you can more than likely add something like HLA on top of your engine, just hooking what it needs to in any already exposed API and have an HLA wrapper for communications.
Interesting on the LOD. For things like collision you will have a fixed LOD? I was wondering, for things like artillery or other non-line-of-sight stuff would you be able to stream that terrain data for collisions of projectiles not within the immediate area of the player(s)?
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Interesting on the LOD. For things like collision you will have a fixed LOD? I was wondering, for things like artillery or other non-line-of-sight stuff would you be able to stream that terrain data for collisions of projectiles not within the immediate area of the player(s)?
That depends on the implementation. If you do not see the terrain, do you need to know where it hit? If there's an entity nearby that would be affected, in a trusted environment that entity could be computing the collisions and resulting effects, advertising it to a global controller.
But any patch of terrain can be computed down to any level of detail as everything is deterministic. One will need just the base elevation data plus the vector data containing the edits. Vector data are fairly small, easily streamed around.
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We're looking forward to the Outerra Engine next year, we plan to license it to develop an online multi-player game.
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I think,best for this engine is the truck simulator and multiplayer must be ;)
This is my dream :)
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We're looking forward to the Outerra Engine next year, we plan to license it to develop an online multi-player game.
Least informative post ever! Maybe it's a hiking game.. Maybe it's a geo-caching ice-cream adventure.. Maybe it's an ant colony simulator in 1:1 scale and walking around the globe would take a hundred years.
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We're looking forward to the Outerra Engine next year, we plan to license it to develop an online multi-player game.
Least informative post ever! Maybe it's a hiking game.. Maybe it's a geo-caching ice-cream adventure.. Maybe it's an ant colony simulator in 1:1 scale and walking around the globe would take a hundred years.
Yes, we can't say much under NDA. Though lets just say it's a multiplayer sci-fi game.
Ant colony simulator sounds cool though, you have very awesome game ideas! :P
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Reminds me on "Sim Ant!" :D
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I'm thinking of 2 games
- A game similar to Wurm where you create you own colony and fight for territorial control against 2 other factions. You had to rely heavily on natural resources including wood and stone. What was awesome about it was the teamwork. A few other guys and I searched for a nice spot to settle and once we did we created a large fort that took almost 2 or more weeks to complete, we could never do it alone though, everything was so hard to do alone that teamwork was necesary so ya a lot of colonies were often created. Took like 2-3 weeks to complete but we eventually lost the fort though after it was invaded by overwhelming numbers of a enemy faction. But ya it was pretty awesome. :D
-The second game would be WWII, it just seems right since the war took place pretty much everywhere in land, sea, and air. The WWII Online: Battleground Europe players drool at this engine a lot btw.
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Good afternoon. I really like the game arma 2, and when I saw your engine, I was very happy. If you are familiar with the game arma 2 as you think you can on your engine to make the game arma??
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Surely a game like Arma can be done on it, but of course it would require much more than just a terrain engine. As Matt6767 and others said, Battleground Europe is another such game that already uses large terrains, and would benefit hugely from world rendering that we have got here.
However I do not think existing games can be updated to use the engine - it will have to be a clean start. But I'm sure sooner or later it will happen, someone will invest into such project fulfilling the dream of many :)
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and how many people can be that on this planet to play? may be 50000 people online? Well arma 2, only 120 people is not a 50000? For this to be a real war on 25000 25000. is that possible??
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Well what was I saying - Outerra is a terrain engine, with integrated physics. However, it does not integrate networking, so the question is irrelevant. You will have to address it to a game that will be using the engine - every game can have different needs and possibilities.
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One of the aspects that makes WWIIOL playable is that the world is generated at half scale to keep the travel distances manageable by the players. Nobody would play if it took 8 hours to fly from a base in the UK to go bomb Berlin. :)
g.
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For 4 hours is it OK? ;)
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One of the aspects that makes WWIIOL playable is that the world is generated at half scale to keep the travel distances manageable by the players. Nobody would play if it took 8 hours to fly from a base in the UK to go bomb Berlin. :)
g.
Some would, but the rest with little patience or time can always bomb the closer towns, army bases, forward bases, strategic targets, grab a dive bomber and pick out those armored vehicles or naval ships.
Currently in WWII online you don't really have to fly from so far back though, High Command can always move in bomber units to a closer airfield near the frontline to reduce the trip to the enemy factories. So yeah most likely no one would fly from the U.K. to Berlin unless the Allied forces were pushed out of mainland europe, even then one would wonder why you would be bombing Berlin when you have more important targets to worry about...
Naval ships on the other hand would take several hours to get from one spot to another but most simulator guys don't really mind, just the quick action guys...
.......and whats the point of a 1:1 scale of earth then if no one wants to take the time to fly/drive/walk/sail to a certain location? lol
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whats the point of a 1:1 scale of earth then if no one wants to take the time to fly/drive/walk/sail to a certain location? lol
Agreed, to a point. I don't want teleportation but I would still like to be able to cross the Atlantic in an evening. You know what. Screw it. If I want to cross the Atlantic I best break plans with the real world because I need to concentrate on my flight or insanely long boat ride. Driving is where some trips may get tedious. Flight simmers are use to absolutely nothing for hours on end. But if your driving and all you see is strait road for hours and hours (talking about places like the plains of north America) that could become tiresome with no towns or signs or anything. Then again. odds are there may be no roads. God this game is going to be a long hauler. I just realized there is a good chance I will never circle the globe in the game. No matter how long you play. It is going to come down to there may be too much to do at home base to have the time to go globe trotting. Just like real life.
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First post here, and I must say this project is very interesting!
I think the future will gather many simulator games on one massive platform like this one.
I like to use Flight Simulator, and i fly online on VATSIM with other people acting as Air Traffic Controllers. ( Im also an ATC on Vatsim).
I imagine myself flying over Europe, someone below me are driving a train, a truck, a ship or any other vehicle someone would want to simulate. Perhaps do i have virtual passengers who need to travel in some kind of business or strategic simulator. And they have chosen my virtual airline because we have a good rating due to other successful flights.
Also i might be flying over the middle east, were a war is being fought between people enjoying first person shooter games.
Maybe I'm flying the troops to the war zone?
On final approach to an airport i see a racetrack, where a car-race is being held.
Anyone share my vision? :)
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Anyone share my vision? :)
I do. ;)
Seriously, the interesting fact is that if it's going in the proper direction, your ideas could become reality. Normally the amount of work wouldn't be really handable, even not by a larger group of people. But having one platform with an interface that allows to build on top of it, then I see no reason why more and more environments shouldn't find their way into Outerra.
I find it interesting how everybody dreams of being able to reflect our reality to a game. :)
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I just realized there is a good chance I will never circle the globe in the game. No matter how long you play. It is going to come down to there may be too much to do at home base to have the time to go globe trotting. Just like real life.
I think there's no need to focus on a single instance of self in the world. In the game, I plan to be the whole colony. One will be able to schedule transports that will proceed automatically, but you'll be able to take over to experience it. Or you could go freewheeling when you know your people are working according to the schedule you defined.
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I find it interesting how everybody dreams of being able to reflect our reality to a game. :)
Yeah, I find it funny too. But it applies only to certain aspects of reality. I think nobody will be locked in an office in Outerra programming stuff :D
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I find it interesting how everybody dreams of being able to reflect our reality to a game. :)
Yeah, I find it funny too. But it applies only to certain aspects of reality. I think nobody will be locked in an office in Outerra programming stuff :D
That's why that part is missing in the Sims. :lol: Though, if you aren't controlling other sims, you might have to sit there until they come home... :/
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All of this is leading up to the plot of the movie "the thirteenth floor" Although OT already has those programmers beat as the whole world is simulated. Maybe its more like the matrix? Where we can be the agents and AI is the helpless people. Unfortunately that would involve some sort of interplanetary war against machine to have to take place in our reality first. Hrm. I guess we could just layer that world under ours then have the "matrix" world under that....
... Inception
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I find it interesting how everybody dreams of being able to reflect our reality to a game. :)
Yeah, I find it funny too. But it applies only to certain aspects of reality. I think nobody will be locked in an office in Outerra programming stuff :D
Uh well, that could end up in something weird. Locked in an office, programming another version of Outerra in Outerra. And guess what you will do there... This is going to be some kind of Matrix. ;) Maybe we all are already sitting in Outerra?
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I've just always wanted to take the need for speed: hot pursuit formula and apply simulator physics. I mean, why not? Or have some kind of capture the flag type driving game where you play with a car that's got all kinds of gadgets. A driving sim with carnage and real physics would just be so much fun, and take some actual talent. Perhaps get more people that just racing enthusiasts into the sim world.
I guess one would need to work on traffic simulation too, especially if you wanna deal damage in cities.
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I would perhaps make a "GTA" kind of game with this engine if I could, how about a GTA "World" :) ?
Or a "Total War" game, covering the whole globe
mixed with the first person fighting elements of "Mount and Blade: Warband".
Or an "Arma 2" kind of game.
Or just a real cool world simulator, with planes, boats and cars. And tanks. And choppers. :D
There are just so many possibilities... :cool:
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Of course, Combine Sim City difficulty with Cities XL freedom, and then allow us to drive and fly around our towns =D
Maybe incorporate some new carbon footprint gimick for something else to worry about when it comes to city building.