Outerra forum

Anteworld - Outerra Game => Game & gameplay discussion => Topic started by: cameni on December 22, 2010, 05:18:18 pm

Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 22, 2010, 05:18:18 pm
As you know there are several developers that would like to make games and applications with Outerra engine. However, the process is rather slow, partly because new commercial projects that are aware of possibilities promised by the engine and at the same time capable to use them are only being planned, and partly because the engine is not yet ready for use by developers other than us - many features are still missing and there's no documentation either.

To kill two birds with one stone, we are seriously considering making a game on the engine ourselves first. The game should maximally utilize the procedural world we've got, providing entertainment in multiple areas - exploring the world, driving and piloting vehicles, building stuff etc. At the same time we will be forced to make the engine more feature rich, to be usable by other developers later.

Here's the description of a game idea (http://www.outerra.com/game.html) (will be continuously updated) that we would like to follow. Since we want to be in touch with our community, we'd like to discuss it here too.

We are eager to read your opinions and answer your questions about this all, while also enhancing it along the way. Thanks!
Title: The Game
Post by: Jagerbomber on December 22, 2010, 05:38:22 pm
If I read it correctly, the lack of real time traffic, or direct online multiplayer, at least at first, is obviously disappointing, but other than that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY  :lol:
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on December 22, 2010, 05:38:30 pm
I like the idea of owning pieces of land in an online version of the game.  Since the world is so large, I imagine there will be PLENTY of space to go around :D.  And I LOVE the indie-concept of low starting fees, and progressing upwards.  This gives Outerra the ability to expand almost exponentially as more and more content-savvy 3rd party users come into play.  In my very first online game, Total Annihilation: Kingdoms, the developers never released their design tools to help improve the functionality and replay-ability of the game.  It took savvy 3rd party developers to hack into the individual game units to help extend the game's very short-life span.  By tapping into that resource early, Outerra development could explode very quickly.

I'm going to go over the design document again later tonight or tomorrow, and will post some thoughts I've had regarding the game proposal.  There are a lot of interesting possibilities with your design ... the first regarding individual computers "hosting," for lack of a better word, "realms" that would allow users and players to experience possibilities they might not otherwise have considered.  Perhaps some sort of "portal object" would allow sandboxed and online players to travel between various incarnations of the world, if the host system is in some way "officially registered."

I guess the short of that would be something similar to Second Life's linking system, where you can click a link and go immediately into that person's developed gaming area.  That would also have an advantage of keeping the "wargames" stuff separated from the "peace" areas, without unnecessarily griefing players who want to just explore and admire the beauty of the virgin Earth.

*Edit: And something tells me this is going to be the most popular thread on the forums.  If you guys had a penny for every read and post on this particular thread, I'll lay odds that you'll be millionaires by the end of the year ;)

*Edit2: Because apparently even someone who professes to be a writer can't spell very well at times :D
Title: The Game
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on December 22, 2010, 07:58:27 pm
I'd love to see something like PlanetSide.  That would be very nice indeed with this engine.
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on December 22, 2010, 11:51:34 pm
Before I log out for the night (early day tomorrow), I was thinking about this:

Have you guys considered some sort of in-game (er, in-engine) chat functionality?  I think with the game design you're proposing, and the lack (initially) of real-time traffic/multiplayer environment (except as noted on possible "host servers" on individual computers), this would be a necessary and needed function to facilitate communication with the alpha/demo users to discuss expansion and modifications of the engine, including models and other things.  It could also help in keeping any models/modifications consistent with your design plan for both the game and the engine, as interactivity amongst those of us who would be exploiting that part of the design could collaborate a bit more easily, and ensure that we maintain a certain level of "professional design" that's hard to come by in 3rd party development (specifically in regards to professional quality models, etc).

Not to mention it would make trading resources and the in-game economy a LOT easier :).

I haven't seen anything on the forums that discusses an in-game/in-engine chat system, so thought I'd throw that out there.  Perhaps one of the existing text-based chat systems could be easily integrated into the system without a lot of overhead or head-aches for you :).  Since you already have a Chromium integration to the engine, it wouldn't be so far-fetched that an existing chat system could be easily integrated, would it?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 23, 2010, 01:34:48 am
Quote from: cshawnsmith
Have you guys considered some sort of in-game (er, in-engine) chat functionality?
I think we mentioned the possibility already - using web services for such tasks is the most natural way here. Since web code can directly call engine functions, the integration can be more thorough. Things like the chat, web shop, and almost any such online functionality can be done this way. UI for tools is already done via html with javascript, and this can be easily modded.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 23, 2010, 04:49:15 am
I predicted this thread months ago. Now Lets get down to brass tax (tacks? never understood that saying) I apologize for quoting practically the entire game description but it is the only way I can have this post make sense to a new user.

Quote from: Outerra Team
Our idea is to make a kind of earth re-colonization game, where players start to build on our home planet again, after being forced to withdraw from it a long time ago (for whatever reason) to space or underground, taking documentation and conserving some existing machines & vehicles so that they can kick-start the civilization again when it will be possible. Upon reentry the effects of previous human civilization will be long since eradicated, with nature reclaiming the cities and almost everything else man created, but players will start with modern tools and vehicles preserved from our contemporary or a slightly more advanced age.

Sounds like the plot to WarZone2100 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSiyu6JcA7g&hd=1 A great RTS that has survived to this day after all the rights to continue its development were made open-source. www.wz2100.net (http://www.wz2100.net)
Granted that game had you developing weapons to fight off marauders and opposing AI tanks and such. Perhaps a mod for a future revision of OT. As for tools and vehicles I presume Tatra's, Cesna's and international space stations will be in abundance!


Quote
The game should include two main modes in the beginning:

   1. Offline sandbox mode allowing to freely explore and modify the environment
   2. Online mode with resource mining and a basic economy, cities, transport networks and trade

It will be basically a slowly running  transportation and world-building game where one can design his city and lands, but also to directly control the vehicles to transport resources and goods, or to explore and prospect the land for resources to be mined, to build road and rail networks, interconnecting with others and building the economy if he wishes so.

Offline mode sounds pretty normal but the second mode is not quite described the way I would be comfortable with. In other words having Outerra turn into this would probably mark the end of me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk8dJ87MrdY&hd=1 Those Germans love farming!
 

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Online here means that the game world state would be stored in a cloud system such as Google App Engine, and people will be able to see the creations of others around the world, trade with each other, actually seeing the transports as they go. That means that AI or scheduled traffic will be visible, but not so the direct actions of other players - not until there are special servers capable of handling real time traffic. There's one possibility that can do without such servers that could be applicable in this scenario - player's own computer (or a player's dedicated machine) may be used as a server for limited number of "visitors", handling the assigned area or event. For example, such an outside server could be used to control vehicle racing events organized by players. But any of this will not be essential for the game mechanism itself.

Well I believe a huge empty world alone is a very depressing one no matter the AI running around driving trucks. I see no point of entering a world like Outerra unless some friends can come along. You want to see me at my gaming happiest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPWw7H_F2CU&hd=1 6 of my friends and I all at once "exploring" the 20 mile uphill of Pikes Peak in our favorite cars. Now us being in cars doesn't really matter. Here is that same experience in minecraft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqaAPFg4UxU&hd=1 The interaction between other human beings is paramount. Now if this kind of interaction requires us to host our own servers, piggy backed onto the database system so be it. But multi-player is the only way you are going to get PEOPLE to want to PLAY in Outerra. Otherwise it is just a better looking google earth with the sims on it.

 
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This design will allow for massively online world without having to care for server side infrastructure. Costs of online access and cloud computing should be included in the price for some initial period, but later it will have to be covered (for online access).

How much. I will write you a check tonight. Or after ATi fix their S**T!


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Initial alpha version will focus around the exploration, driving and flying a limited number of vehicles. These should cover major vehicle types, with more vehicles coming later also perhaps from the community.

Need a car. Something... sporty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZQr9AwDNU&hd=1


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Online account will come with the possibility to own certain amount of land that can be used to build on solely by the owner.

With the current number of people aware of Outerra that "amount" could be about 100,000 sq/mi and there would still be room for 575 people and that is just on land.
 

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Mods should be normally possible and encouraged in the sandbox mode, but even for the online mode the mods that fulfill the requirements and get accepted may be included into game.

I imagine you could have this download via link right in-game. Would a mod load require OT to restart? Because I do not believe any game has ever been able to enable a new mod without restarting..  ;)

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We would like to try the indie development model (known for example from Minecraft), when the game is released early in alpha stage for a reduced price so that enthusiastic gamers can support and even direct the development, getting all further updates and the final release for free.

1842 players online, in 942 servers. 2642060 registered users, of which 860538 (32.57%) have bought the game. Bought it at $14 US for the alpha and now $20 for the beta. So 12 million bucks so far

In the last 24 hours, 21326 people registered, and 5207 people bought the game That's $100,000 in sales in 1 day. I don't understand how!

Maybe you should start this game with pigs, chickens and cows. Also being able to punch trees could not hurt.

In summary I wait in anticipation for our shot at whatever comes out of this thread. Remember, you can please some of the people all of the time and all the people none of the time.. But you can't please everyone all the time. So do what you think is best regardless of us and our constant nagging. Except that multiplayer part, that is important.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 23, 2010, 07:33:54 am
Yes I agree that multiplayer is very important to get and keep people playing the game. But a sure thing is that we won't be able to afford the server infrastructure needed to make it possible to run on a global scale.

Now the described online model is more suited for huge transportation/civilization style games on a whole planet for large amounts of players. These will be building cities and laying down the roads and railroad tracks, sending stuff around - basically building the world. The world they create will be stored in a cloud, accessible by others.

Players who don't feel like playing that aspect of the game could set up real-time servers that control the dynamic entities and a kind of gameplay, and play whatever game will be supported on these. However the cloud would still be sourced for definitions of the world you are in. So you don't like farming, but I guess you'd still like to see farms by the roadside as you zoom along. Imagine someone builds New York as a part of the strategic game, and you would take your guys and instantiate a car race there. The only thing is that initially players would have to provide their own server iron for that, until we can set up some global ones, but obviously that won't be easy&soon.

So the plan is about making a global world building game that would be able to carry instances of other game types going on in that environment.

Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote
Online account will come with the possibility to own certain amount of land that can be used to build on solely by the owner.
With the current number of people aware of Outerra that "amount" could be about 100,000 sq/mi and there would still be room for 575 people and that is just on land.
Yes, the land would be plenty especially in alpha. We hope that the interest rises when it gets finally released on Steam or somewhere. I think alpha/beta testing will resolve many questions like how to proceed with that.

Quote
Quote
Mods should be normally possible and encouraged in the sandbox mode, but even for the online mode the mods that fulfill the requirements and get accepted may be included into game.
I imagine you could have this download via link right in-game. Would a mod load require OT to restart? Because I do not believe any game has ever been able to enable a new mod without restarting..  :wink:
Should be doable, depends on the type of mod.


Minecraft .. at least serves to show there are plenty of world builders out there :)
Maybe it's not for nothing that some people were exclaiming Minecraft 2! upon seeing Outerra. Not that it makes any sense to compare, but just what people think about doing ..
Title: The Game
Post by: Blockaderunner on December 23, 2010, 08:52:19 am
Quote from: cameni
I think alpha/beta testing will resolve many questions like how to proceed with that.

It's the only thing to do.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 23, 2010, 03:13:28 pm
If you could nab the minecraft crowd and the Garrysmod Crowd you would be set. With Notch's inability to code correctly and the limitations of the source engine as far as map size and object/collision handling by the physics engine have really set an expiration date on its usefulness. I am sure I could convince the modelers of the basic gmod props to re-do them in whatever format OT would need so that the spirit of lego could live in OT. Does the Bullet Physics engine support constraints like rope, weld, axis etc? Because I imagine the ability to spawn a model and weld it to another should be easier then setting up an AI transport system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae6ovaDBiDE&hd=1
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 23, 2010, 04:07:14 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
If you could nab the minecraft crowd and the Garrysmod Crowd you would be set.
I don't think we'll be getting a considerable chunk of either. Considerably higher hw demands than Minecraft and more complex controls and environment. For garrysmod we'd need to work on an universal physics system that would be necessarily poorly performing, and perfecting the object/collision handling would take enormous time while we still have a lot of work on the technology that we actually want to demonstrate in the first place. And I'm not convinced that planetary expanses are the thing that garrysmod needs .. though I don't know much about it and how big is the crowd behind it. I was taking it mostly as an interesting physics toy, and I can imagine it as an addon in Outerra as well, just not as a primary thing it should be about.

Quote
I imagine the ability to spawn a model and weld it to another should be easier then setting up an AI transport system.
I beg to differ, but it's not important. The important thing is with whom we'll be competing. Do we want people saying - it's better garrysmod, it's new minecraft clone - or that it's Outerra. I think we should focus on what we can do uniquely - planetary scale, procedural detail .. something that can really use it while also respecting our available resources.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 23, 2010, 04:26:04 pm
I think I may be getting too detailed on my posts here. Perhaps a more subtle approach. I think what I am getting at is that popular games have no real set goal. Minecraft has no goal.. Gmod certainly has no goal. Come to think of it.. Flight sim's have no goal either. The question is how do you work "doing nothing" so that it can best show an engine as huge as this?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 23, 2010, 04:51:03 pm
From this point of view we are pretty safe, the game as described will not have a goal as well  :D
Building the world, building an empire in it .. what is it all for  :P

But seriously, for me the notion of a virgin planet being recolonized sparsely, with places to explore and stuff to build is intriguing. Though I'm a lonely player so my view is skewed. But hey, it has basically no goal :) That means we'll only discover what's there to do.
But the initial strange attractor for the game sounds good, doesn't it? A whole planet to play on .. or to be lost in. With a proper marketing strategy ..
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on December 23, 2010, 05:21:59 pm
Hey, one of the most successful television series on the Earth was "based on nothing."

I will create my models in Lightwave, export to Collada format, import into the Outerra tool for refinement, and then setup in the engine.  I will have a villa on a nice little island, with a runway and a shipyard, and a Ferrari parked in the driveway.  Then, when my son is old enough, he will be able to fly anywhere in the world, sail in a yacht on the open sea, or drive the Ferrari without having to ask for Daddy's keys to his boring RL gold van.

An "open-ended" game is a catch-22 in many ways.  It allows for the absolute MAXIMUM of replay-ability.  In one respect, the engine/game is only bound by what you dream about, and you can make it anything you want.  On the other hand, that puts an extra burden on some of the potential players who may not have working knowledge of 3d modeling or modifications.  I think this latter part is less of a threat this year than it may have been, say, 5 years ago.  Most gamers who are interested either already know the processes, or know who to ask to help them in learning it.  And those of us in the know are usually open enough to share our designs freely.  I was amazed when I saw the number of free FSX models and add-ons.  That was refreshing.

My son's only 2 and a half, and he's already understanding the concept that the mouse drives the little pointer on the screen, and if you click the left mouse button in a certain area, it'll bring up the video with the airplane that he loves so much :p.  In another year, I'll have him working on modifications to the Outerra engine :D

But now I'm off on a tangent :).  The goal of most simulators is the experience itself ... the beauty of what you see around you.  You lose yourself in the moment, and forget that it's only a game, and that you'd never EVER be able to fly a 747 in real life, but you really don't care because it's just a game.

An exploration style game fits the Outerra engine well.  With over 500 million square kilometers being simulated, it will take years to walk from one end of a continent to the other, let alone trying to explore every little nook and cranny.  Perhaps a "Best of Outerra" quest, using the "Writing in the Grass" technique (sorry, my southern American upbringing is imagining a hippie saying, "Far out, Man!" every time I look at that thread lol), to take the end-user/player on a world wide tour of Outerra's most interesting places.  I know Lake Lewisville won't be there  :P

*edit: frickin' twitchy pinky finger hitting return before I'm ready grrrrrrrr.  

To continue that thought ... the world wide Outerra touring quest could end with some form of vehicle not seen before in the Outerra engine.  Some players could take weeks or months to complete it, while others take only a few hours.  But the vehicle reward (something unique and awesome ... maybe Santa's Sleigh and eight reindeer! :D).
Title: The Game
Post by: gosox116 on December 23, 2010, 11:01:56 pm
A flight simulator!
Title: The Game
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on December 23, 2010, 11:27:16 pm
Quote from: gosox116
A flight simulator!
That could be part of what we're discussing, yes.  And welcome. :D
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 25, 2010, 08:14:59 am
Quote from: gosox116
A flight simulator!
There's also a possibility that a flight simulator addon will be developed along with the development of the game. It may result in a specific release aimed at flight sim enthusiasts.
Title: The Game
Post by: zgredek on December 30, 2010, 06:24:08 pm
I have two ideas. The first one is driver job simulator, so you can work as taxi / bus / truck driver. Or you can be a pilot. The another one is something like OpenTTD, but in 3d ;)
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 31, 2010, 06:09:37 am
Our idea was in certain respects similar to TTD and other transport-style games - you'd be connecting cities, mines and facilities by roads and railroads and planning aircraft routes etc.

I'm just unsure how to merge two concepts - that you can have your own private land where only you are allowed to build, acting as a county, and the need to build arterial roads/railways to transport rare stuff from distance.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 31, 2010, 03:47:10 pm
Quote from: cameni
Our idea was in certain respects similar to TTD and other transport-style games - you'd be connecting cities, mines and facilities by roads and railroads and planning aircraft routes etc.

I'm just unsure how to merge two concepts - that you can have your own private land where only you are allowed to build, acting as a county, and the need to build arterial roads/railways to transport rare stuff from distance.

I think the "having your own land" issue might be un-necessary. With the area we have to work with assigning the land would only force people apart (though there initially won't be other people). Now I am not looking to have all the players in groups like a ghetto. But certainly less then a mile from one player's base camp to another would not be so bad. Perhaps if you are not allowed to build your main structure if you are less then X distance from another player. That would ensure the land is used while not forcing everyone to be hours of travel apart. Frankly I would like to be able to mine and work next to my actual friends. Not sure how to accomplish this. Maybe we all just decide on an area before descending from the mothership. Think of the social experiment that would initiate! It would be like a large scale version of the movie "the warriors".
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on December 31, 2010, 04:23:03 pm
There are times when I just want to be "away from everything and everyone" in an MMO type environment.  Although I know multiplayer won't be added at first, and I'd still be more or less alone, I'd like to build a little cabin somewhere miles away from everything else so I can take in the beauty of the virgin world ... nature at its finest.

If there's some sort of rapid transit system (say, a "shuttle" that enters LEO), then distance won't be too much of a factor.  I imagine clans or guilds would end up forming to create cities in particular areas (and eventually entire nations).

For me, I think I'd like to stake out a claim around the Seattle area, or perhaps Colorado.

I think the hardest thing for this game is the sheer size of the world, and trying to get from one place to the next.  Imagine walking from LA to NYC in Outerra ... it would take just as long as it would in the real world :).  If there's no rapid transit system, everyone will have a hard time finding one another once multiplayer shows up, if it does.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on December 31, 2010, 04:39:03 pm
It will be affected by other design decisions. For example, to be able to effectively manage the world, the land will have to be pre-parceled into districts that will be assignable to a particular player. Consequently, with players claiming their allegiance and nationality, political maps can be rendered daily to be shown on the website. This could become a great attractor for people - seeing maps of current world order. If the borders were completely dynamic, such system would be much more complicated and error prone.

Another issue are the privileges. Two people on the same piece of land making roads = mess. If you join an alliance together with your comrades, effectively joining your lands that you will be managing together, there still has to be a single person responsible for designing stuff, assigning tasks and privileges. Or when someone begins, it will lock the design mode in that district for others.

Alliances and higher level hierarchies could be also used to make new features accessible, for example highways or just higher capacity upgrades and such. Hm, this could become sooo complicated :)

And for the socializing types .. you can be somewhere else in person, while occasionally managing your land, or delegating these rights to the alliance leader and just going FPS mode. These elements of gameplay can be separate. I can imagine sim guys just taking jobs to transport goods stuff around, not caring for strategic play at all. But they would rely on strategic players to build the world.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 31, 2010, 05:33:34 pm
Well one of the vehicles we get from the start should be a jump jet so we can cover some long distances in a reasonably short time. 1000 miles in 30 minutes is the fastest I would ever want it to travel (concord did 1350mph so the future 2000mph should be doable). Then limit the single full fuel range to 1500 miles. Causing an exploration limit to 750 miles away from known fuel sources.

I will leave the political structure of OT up to the corrupt and terrible people.. Just like real life. You could even just have the game work its way into the Gundam Wing/firefly political crisis with the settlers/working class eventually wanting independence from the military controlled upper hierarchy. Since the groundwork is all we are really aiming to show off the plot itself is as fluid as the blood of the enemy which could be made up as you see fit.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 01, 2011, 04:47:15 am
Yeah, the political structure would be left on the people themselves, we just need to implement the mechanisms so they can express it freely in-game. In turn we can use it to make a bit of propaganda to attract new players - showing the political map will surely p*ss off some to log in and try to change the balance. It's more suited for the military extension though.

The bad thing is that it will greatly attract DDOS attacks too, but that's something every online game has to count with nowadays.
Title: The Game
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on January 01, 2011, 10:46:00 am
DDOS attacks!?!?  I didn't know that. :o
Title: The Game
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 01, 2011, 12:00:41 pm
Oh yes, they seem to be everywhere now.

How would you pull this off exactly?  I mean, to shape the world yada yada and take over other people's land, the land couldn't be protected by the program itself to have it so only certain people can shape it because then taking over lands wouldn't work.  Also, how would somebody protect their land, especially if it's really big?

If it was a complete free build, it would take a lot shorter time (especially in a virtual world) to destroy things than it would to create them how the creator wanted it.  I just fear that it's inevitable that there will be somebody who's gonna be a jackass and go around wrecking everybody's stuff.  :/ *Cough*MINECRAFT*Cough*
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 01, 2011, 01:07:56 pm
There are some possibilities. First is that taking over would simply not work, at least not initially, the game being about building and transporting (apart from exploring and enjoying the driving and flying). On the strategic level it would be thus an economic competition, much like all the transportation games.

If there was a military layer later on it, the takeover could be economic as well - certain % of income would go to the usurper, but the lands will still be yours. The same % will go to your alliance/state even if you are not conquered, so it won't be such a loss other than loss of pride :)

There can still be conflicts, for example when the ruler decides to build an arterial road through his empire, necessarily taking some land of the conquered or joined players. But this could be solved as in real life .. compensations, and voting if the subject files a protest .. will bring a real life unhappiness to some :)

(thread split (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=228) from here)
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on January 01, 2011, 06:23:08 pm
The Lumion thread (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=224) got me to thinking about buildings, housing, etc.

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to construct some sort of structure-design interface within the engine.  Basically, think of The Sims where you could literally build a house to your own specifications, selecting areas for walls, doors, windows, ceilings, stairs, etc.  The customization options would be practically endless.  When you "build" the structure virtually, it tells you the amount of resources etc needed.  Then you have the option to scrap it or save it to a blueprint.  When all the resources are gathered, the "construction pod" comes down from the mother ship and begins building the building according to the blueprint.

This would be in addition to using prefabricated structures (for ease of the engine and for those who don't get into that kind of thing, "stock" buildings/homes/warehouses would be available for construction, as already discussed.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 02, 2011, 05:36:45 am
The difficulty would be proportional to the required level of customizability and mess avoidance :)
Yeah we were pondering about it too, but thus far we didn't find an elegant and reasonably doable solution  :/
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on January 07, 2011, 04:43:15 pm
Quote from: Cameni
The difficulty would be proportional to the required level of customizability and mess avoidance

Couldn't you do something similar to your road/pad tool?  I don't know how it works on the inside (programming level), but it seems to me it could work.

I'm thinking in the following terms:

1. "Foundation Tool"  Click an area to create the foundation in the shape desired.
2. "Wall Tool" Click a starting point for a wall, and then click the end point.  Continue until you have all your walls defined. (Walls would have a slider adjustment for height and thickness)
3. "Floor Tool" Not sure about this one, but could be very similar to the Foundation Tool, but allows you to also click on the "tops" of the walls to secure the flooring to that height.
4. "Windows/Doors Tool"  Click the spot you want a window or door, and it intersects/cuts through the existing wall (perhaps inserting a pre-defined static mesh).
5. Stairs, furniture, decorations, etc, could all be actual static meshes contained in a library, which could be added to by 3rd party developers/modding ... could even have some way of allowing websites to create links for use within the engine to allow instant download of a library from the web.  Select the desired mesh, and click the spot where you would like it to rest.
6. Textures could also come from pre-defined tiling textures.  Once your object is created, clicking on various "surfaces" (or doing so during the time of construction), would secure that texture to the piece.

Once you have the "blueprint" built, the engine spits out the necessary resource requirements (say, X amount of wood, stone, metal per square meter of wall/floor/etc), and allow you to save it as a blueprint to be fed into the construction pod when it arrives.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 08, 2011, 01:13:21 pm
Such a system would be possible, but making it robust and solving all the details won't be trivial. But yeah, if something like that was implemented, it would give another dimension to the game.

We are also thinking about a building generator that could probably use some floor templates to generate buildings, being able to randomize some aspects as well. It would be good if the system allowed both these modes - producing a custom template by the user, and randomizing and cloning it to produce cities.
Title: The Game
Post by: Abc94 on January 08, 2011, 04:06:24 pm
I don't know why I didn't think of something like that before, Shawn.  An in-game construction system with a planetary engine has lots of possibilities.  Haha, just add people and basic interaction with objects and you got The Sims 4!   :lol:   It could then also become a Sims/Sim City hybrid type game, although I'm not sure if anything on that scale is actually possible yet.

I think by itself randomly generated buildings with interiors have a lot of potential, especially in FPSs, but would add a lot to any type of game genre.   :cool:   I've never seen an FPS use randomly generated maps.  An Outerra FPS, for example, could pick a random location for each game (or round) then generate weapon and vehicle spawn points and, if necessary, randomly generate small or large structures for the game area.
Title: The Game
Post by: Michal on January 08, 2011, 07:02:59 pm
You should check procedural buildings in Unreal Engine 3. UDK is free to download, and it may bring some nice ideas. Of course Epic has far more resources than Outerra team, and I'm not asking for similar tool in Outerra, but a simplified version may be a nice solution.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/ProceduralBuildings.html
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on January 08, 2011, 07:05:51 pm
Heh, the reason I asked that question is because I've always considered what a large scale, real world "Sims" meets "Second Life" would look like.  If you recall the movie "Gamerz" (bad movie, but interesting subplots regarding that virtual world), I've imagined something similar, in which players could be anyone and anything, including building virtual bars, dance halls, schools, etc, and eventually perhaps "stores" where you could browse a company's items virtually, walk up to a virtual checkout, and purchase those items.  The store then delivers them to your doorstep :).

Imagine being able to shop for souvenirs in France while sitting in your own home.  Imagine taking online courses from a college half a world away, literally sitting in a virtual classroom while the professor gives a lecture.

"Digital Reality"

*Edit* Wow, I didn't realize the Unreal Engine could do procedural buildings.  That looks pretty cool.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 09, 2011, 04:02:17 am
Quote from: _michal
You should check procedural buildings in Unreal Engine 3. UDK is free to download, and it may bring some nice ideas. Of course Epic has far more resources than Outerra team, and I'm not asking for similar tool in Outerra, but a simplified version may be a nice solution.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/ProceduralBuildings.html
Looks nice, I didn't know it either, thanks!
Title: The Game
Post by: Michal on January 09, 2011, 04:34:55 am
It's about a half a year since I've worked on Unreal Engine, but I still follow it's progress, and I believe it's the most versatile toolset available today - I'm not talking about engine's features which are impressive too (of course for it's own purposes), but about tools you have.

Back to topic - I'm really glad you've decided to make your own proof-of-concept game. I hope it will come with some kind of SDK to make additional cars, planes or boats.
Title: The Game
Post by: Aman on January 09, 2011, 07:20:59 am
The second you sell the Engine to a big Company like EA etc. it will be dead.
Those companys mainly create crap for lowbrainers. They are not willing to make something "new", theyre not willing to take any risks.
Games for the masses are horrible.
Please take your time to build a game by yourself. I can speak only for myself, but i WILL buy it anyway, no matter if it is a FlightSim, a HikingSim, a TruckTrialSim or whatever.
Im playing Computergames since 1977. I saw thousands of games and your engine is by far the best thing in all that time. No FanBoy blabla! There is so much potential in it.
There are countless possibilities for this engine. I can watch the videos over and over again and im still stunned by the beauty and realism.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 09, 2011, 11:49:31 am
Quote from: Aman
The second you sell the Engine to a big Company like EA etc. it will be dead.
I don't think a company like EA would even be interested in this engine, they don't have tastes that good.

And further still if they did want to use it they would most likely license it leaving other companies to still develop under it. Kind of like what the unreal and source engine have done. However in the case that EA or more likely Micro$oft feel that this engine in open development and licensing would lead to competition to one of their products and overall hurt their bottom line it would be prudent therefore to make brano and pig millionaires in one evening and fullfilling all their boyhood fantasies by buying out the entire development of the engine is a terrible thought. For us at least ;)
Title: The Game
Post by: SpaceFlight on January 15, 2011, 07:52:58 pm
After reading the posts in this thread,
I thought I will try to compile some of the features "the game" might have as stated
by the developers and other people and
I will add some things I would like to have in an Outerra game:
the game should/could be:

- a hiking/driving/boat driving/flight simulator
- it should be possible to climb the mountains if on foot.  :)
  (Maybe that is something not so important right now,
  but I think it would be cool if avatars could climb later on)
- it should be possible to gather resources (wood, minerals, metals)
- to own land
- to build structures on ones land
- to take other peoples land by force (perhaps a single person can only own a certain amount of land)
- to hire guards (played by real people) to protect ones land
- to hire drivers/pilots (played by real people) to get gathered resources to markets in citites,
  where they can be exchanged for other goods or sold to other players
- there should be PVP areas (preferably the whole earth, except cities)
- there should be safe zones (major cities where the markets are located)
- city sieges
- it should be possible to take on different roles (hunter, miner, soldier, driver, pilot, land owner, constructer,
  mayor of a city)
- the mayor has to be elected by the players via a voting system
- only the mayor and its staff can authorize construction projects in a city
- constructers can build inside of a city, they can build roads and connect cities, if they have the approval of the mayor
  or his/her staff
- the mayor can set taxes on goods in cities
- there should be clans/guilds/corporations
- it should be possible to change the role if one wants to
- the military layer should consist of an army where one can be a pilot, infantery man, tank crew etc. (I think "Arma 2"   
  features these different classes)
- there should be some sort of quick travel between locations, no teleporting but rather flights with jets that fly via the 
  atmosphere to different locations around the planet (maybe it would take 90 minutes to orbit the planet)
- there should be spacecraft :)

Thats it for now,
(I am not a programmer myself and I am sure most of these ideas have been mentioned before
or are implemented in other mmo games)

greetings,
SF
Title: The Game
Post by: Matt6767 on January 15, 2011, 10:47:09 pm
Quote from: SpaceFlight
After reading the posts in this thread,
I thought I will try to compile some of the features "the game" might have as stated
by the developers and other people and
I will add some things I would like to have in an Outerra game:
the game should be:

- a hiking/driving/boat driving/flight simulator
- it should be possible to climb the mountains if on foot.  :)
  (Maybe that is something not so important right now,
  but I think it would be cool if avatars could climb later on)
- it should be possible to gather resources (wood, minerals, metals)
- to own land
- to build structures on ones land
- to take other peoples land by force (perhaps a single person can only own a certain amount of land)
- to hire guards (played by real people) to protect ones land
- to hire drivers/pilots (played by real people) to get gathered resources to markets in citites,
  where they can be exchanged for other goods or sold to other players
- there should be PVP areas (preferably the whole earth, except cities)
- there should be safe zones (major cities where the markets are located)
- city sieges
- it should be possible to take on different roles (hunter, miner, soldier, driver, pilot, land owner, constructer,
  mayor of a city)
- the mayor has to be elected by the players via a voting system
- only the mayor and its staff can authorize construction projects in a city
- constructers can build inside of a city, they can build roads and connect cities, if they have the approval of the mayor
  or his/her staff
- the mayor can set taxes on goods in cities
- there should be clans/guilds/corporations
- it should be possible to change the role if one wants to
- the military layer should consist of an army where one can be a pilot, infantery man, tank crew etc. (I think "Arma 2"  
  features these different classes)
- there should be some sort of quick travel between locations, no teleporting but rather flights with jets that fly via the  
  atmosphere to different locations around the planet (maybe it would take 90 minutes to orbit the planet)
- there should be spacecraft :)

Thats it for now,
(I am not a programmer myself and I am sure most of these ideas have been mentioned before
or are implemented in other mmo games)

greetings,
SF
The perfect game.

I like your idea of PvP. Also any clan/guild/group based wars should be allowed to fight in any cities owned by them.
Title: The Game
Post by: Emil on January 16, 2011, 07:57:11 am
Quote from: SpaceFlight


- it should be possible to gather resources (wood, minerals, metals)
- to build structures on ones land
- to take other peoples land by force (perhaps a single person can only own a certain amount of land)
- it should be possible to take on different roles (hunter, miner, soldier, driver, pilot, land owner, constructer,
  mayor of a city)
- constructers can build inside of a city, they can build roads and connect cities, if they have the approval of the mayor
  or his/her staff
- the military layer should consist of an army where one can be a pilot, infantery man, tank crew etc. (I think "Arma 2"  
  features these different classes)
e planet)
- there should be spacecraft :)




I think, why not make a simulator with all these funktions like beeing a builder, skrap collector, mine worker, mashine operator and all that in one big giant sim! think of it as sims where you only control one person but in first person and you get to choose your work and all that. it would be impressive, like war raging on one side of the earth whilst peasfull vications and dreamjobs on the other side. Just think of it.

//Lolich
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 16, 2011, 02:00:22 pm
Quote from: Lolich
like war raging on one side of the earth whilst peaceful vacations and dream jobs on the other side.

That is the benefit of a global engine like this. All the variation we find in real life could be maintained simply because of the distance between parties and the travel time between realms. However I feel there would be less security in OT then there is in real life so terrorist attacks would be greater. But there are less people to terrorize so you would have to find them first.

OH>>> How about an in-game news network. Just text scrolls at first saying whats going on eg ("Mr potter just found gold in the former San Fransisco area.. Also the mother ship hit its third highest population increase in a decade.. storms are likely in the former soviet union area... Resources are requested in Islamabad 839-Top credit paid - all help appreciated"). Then when billions of dollars are made with the engine there can be live news feeds with actors to read the news.
Title: The Game
Post by: Vicious713 on January 20, 2011, 04:24:46 am
A great way to deal with alot of that is to give Death a very, very serious penalty.
Title: The Game
Post by: Mervenus on January 22, 2011, 11:11:39 pm
An everything simulator.
Title: The Game
Post by: [deleted] on January 27, 2011, 01:30:10 pm
So for online multiplayer will you have to pay ? Or just the game ?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on January 27, 2011, 04:15:25 pm
The idea is such that for the online part, i.e. the ability to see and interact with other people's creations in the game, the initial price will cover the associated costs of bandwidth and server processor time for some period, say half of year or so. The period can be then extended for a price, but I expect the price to include only the costs of cloud transactions one will consume so that we aren't losing on it. We don't have the calculations yet, it will become clear after initial tests.

For offline gaming no additional payments will be necessary. Note offline here refers to being offline from the global server, a lone man on the planet. Technically, multiplayer sub-games with custom servers could be used in both the online and offline mode, though I don't know yet how of if it could be combined.
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on February 27, 2011, 01:05:46 pm
It would be so awesome if you could explore a big world. And you could walk on the streets, build cities and buy a house and  decorate the furniture as well.

It would be nice if you could get "married" with other people just for fun and like "kiss" each other and  stuff like that.

It would be REALLY cool if someone maybe was President over 1 country and then some guys are Vice President and owns a city. He can decorate the city and build Offices and Airports ex...

It would be cool if you could travel to other countries and visit "ex" *Gran Canyon* and maybe Sweden as well?

It would be nice if you could create a family ex that Cameni was the father in the family and then he meet me over the internet and says "Hey, you could be a son and then we find a girl that want to be my wife. And then we can create our family and live in a own house" .


It would be cool if it started to Snow and rain sometimes.

It would be cool if they had Realistic Works in the cities. Maybe that I need money, so I just want to find a easy job. Why not go to a Pizza Restaurant and ask to get a job there?
Then people would come there to EAT because they haft to eat sometimes or they die from hunger.


It would be cool if Cops,Medics and Fire Workers existed to. Ex "Cameni robs a restaurant and then someone calls the cops"

It would be cool if this was made as a GAME and I would seriously get a boner if it did.

If WOULD be COOL if you could work for "NASA" and work as a Astronaut and then flies up to the space and stays there for some while.

It would be cool if you actually could work as a farmer and bring food to people and sell it to stores. Then you maybe buys a new TV or something.

And the most awesome thing would be that the game was made in FIRST PERSON.

And the Developers I see that actually could create this game is these Devs

1.Rockstar
2.Bethesda Softworks
3.2K

If this game ever is made, it will be the most awesomnes GAME EVER!

I hope you guys could read some of my English... I'm from Sweden so it's not my Main Language.

// Honken

#1 EDIT: It would also be cool if counties could actually start war with each others. And the country need to produce weapons and such a thing. But for that they need Iron and stuff like that.

It would also be cool if they added In-Voice in the game then when they talked their Mouthe's should move.

I hope some game developer sees this and thinks "Hey, why not try it out?" and then they create it.
I would buy it defectively.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 27, 2011, 02:08:08 pm
I have no comment
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on February 27, 2011, 04:15:10 pm
Hm, that was a nice welcome I got on the first time here...
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on February 27, 2011, 04:45:20 pm
Hi Honken. Well, I have to say I don't share your enthusiasm for simulating real life (RL) in a game here or elsewhere, or specifically the aspects you listed. It's actually beyond me why anyone would want it. I can understand if people want to experience something they cannot do in RL. Let's say I can even understand pilots that are running flight simulators at home. But who is so delighted by RL that he wants to run another instance of it?
I have one guess - teenagers :)

Of course, there still are aspects of RL that one doesn't experience normally etc, but come on - surely there are better scenarios you would like to go through. A journey to the past, future, no?


Quote
It would be nice if you could create a family ex that Cameni was the father in the family and then he meet me over the internet and says "Hey, you could be a son and then we find a girl that want to be my wife. And then we can create our family and live in a own house"
Oh no, what a dreadful thought, and you used my nick there. I have to rename :)
In virtual world I am a hermit in a distant land in woods near a waterfall and you'll never meet me ;)
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on February 27, 2011, 05:43:06 pm
Quote
In virtual world I am a hermit in a distant land in woods near a waterfall and you'll never meet me

Sounds like me :).  Except when I go "hunting" for enemy players.  Usually I prefer to solo that, but occasionally I like to organize a large "gank" squad for a little virtual terror. :lol:
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on February 27, 2011, 05:49:17 pm
Yea, hunting them socializers is fun :cool:
Title: The Game
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on February 27, 2011, 06:32:51 pm
I myself am a huge team player.  I do my best when I'm supporting teammates, in roles such as such as medic or sniping.
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on February 28, 2011, 02:34:18 am
Why not make it that you need to advance in future? That you spawns in a forest somewhere and then you need to find shelter and food.

Almost like Minecraft but this is in 3D.

Sorry for using your Name ^^ I saw your name when I looked up so took it.

And yes, I'm a teenager and I love Realistic games =) I'm kinda bored of the only Shooting stuff...Like Call of Duty and stuff like that.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on February 28, 2011, 02:42:51 am
Quote from: Honken
Why not make it that you need to advance in future? That you spawns in a forest somewhere and then you need to find shelter and food.
That's Ok, and it's much better than the lovie dovie stuff you scared us with initially :P
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 28, 2011, 05:03:54 am
Quote from: cameni
it's much better than the lovie dovie stuff you scared us with initially :P

Yeah. I spent about 8 seconds reading over honk's original suggestions and opted out of constructive criticism. Now, living alone in the forest.. Looking for gold and killing bears to wear their skin.. That's a man's game!

R... Rural

T... Transport

W... Wheeled

V... Vehicle

........ Damnit I still can't think of a good one for the truck. Need more vowels!
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on February 28, 2011, 08:37:06 am
I was just looking over the realistic stuff you actually could do with this Engine. Did not mean to scare you Zeos and Cameni  :rolleyes:

I love these games like Oblivion when you can hunt Deers and skin Wolfs. Minecraft is okay to, cutting wood, building a shelter and make skin shoes from Cows skin.

I agree, that's a mans Game!

I'm 16 years old for you who wonders so you don't think I'm a 13 year old kid that tries to ruin this forum. Hehe.

I really hope some Developer find this Engine and buys it. Would be so cool to Advance in Future and you need to learn to Craft stuff together and stuff.  Learn how to make a Fishing rod and that kinda stuff.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 28, 2011, 03:25:46 pm
Quote from: Honken
I really hope some Developer find this Engine and buys it. Would be so cool to Advance in Future and you need to learn to Craft stuff together and stuff.  Learn how to make a Fishing rod and that kinda stuff.

Well some developer could still use this engine but the thread you are posting in is for "THE GAME" Cameni and Pig are making right now to test the engine.

I still think making fishing rods might be a bit of a silly trade to learn when you have the entire solar system accurate to ~1cm to play with. But who am I to judge! I certainly wouldn't mind the hunting aspect. Especially if the wildlife are realistic.
Title: The Game
Post by: krunkskimo on February 28, 2011, 03:40:07 pm
somthing along the lines of EVE plus physics/aircraft/vehicle simulator meets outerra.

i'd love to see economy, technology, construction, diplomacy, and 1,000s of players.

maybe in a pre-apocolyptic 1940s-1960s for the sake of simplified low tech wars and vehicle controls.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 28, 2011, 04:01:43 pm
Quote from: krunkskimo
maybe in a pre-apocolyptic 1940s-1960s for the sake of simplified low tech wars and vehicle controls.

Only issue with pre-apocalyptic anything is there will need to be buildings and roads and a complete infrastructure that would need to BE THERE. That is why Cameni is aiming the game and engine as a whole at a millennium or two after the apocalypse. That way its rolling hills and the occasional ancient roadway where man had cut the mountains.
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on March 01, 2011, 12:14:27 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
I still think making fishing rods might be a bit of a silly trade to learn when you have the entire solar system accurate to ~1cm to play with. But who am I to judge! I certainly wouldn't mind the hunting aspect. Especially if the wildlife are realistic.

Then I have one thing to say to you sir.

The more realistic stuff you can do in the game, the better the game will be.
So if you have a problem with Crafting Fishing Rods and don't like it, maybe others like it instead.
The more stuff you actually can do the more fun you will have, because if you get tired of "Fishing" then you can do something else. Also you can craft Fishing Rods and sell them to others.

Don't you see what I'm trying to say with my posts? You always denies them so I don't think you understand my English so good. And I can understand that.

// Honken

P.S What I'm trying to say is that THE more stuff you can do in the game, the more you going to play it without getting tired of it. Because there is so much to do!

You understand now?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on March 01, 2011, 12:34:36 pm
Honken, you should first read what this thread is about. It's about a game that will be first done on this engine. Note that we have limited resources and our goal is to demonstrate the engine, showing the best of it while not burning out on the amount of stuff the game would require.

While it's ok to say that you want a game with everything in it, and that Rockstar/Bethesda/2K should buy the engine and make the game of your dreams, it's not entirely ok to say it in thread that specifically talks about the game we might be doing. If you have read the thread thoroughly, you'd have seen that in the context of this thread your postings are .. misplaced, to say the best.

That's probably why Zeos is reacting this way - it's indeed silly to make fishing rods in the game we are talking about here. Please stick to the topic of discussion here, or make a new topic in the "Ideas/Suggestions" forum if you wish.
Title: The Game
Post by: Honken on March 01, 2011, 12:41:04 pm
Sorry, did not see that he typed that. And I like fishing, that's why.

Did not know you are doing a game :O Awesome! Now I got even happier.

Think it's going to be really cool =)  Good luck!
Title: The Game
Post by: krunkskimo on March 01, 2011, 02:55:34 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote from: krunkskimo
maybe in a pre-apocolyptic 1940s-1960s for the sake of simplified low tech wars and vehicle controls.

Only issue with pre-apocalyptic anything is there will need to be buildings and roads and a complete infrastructure that would need to BE THERE. That is why Cameni is aiming the game and engine as a whole at a millennium or two after the apocalypse. That way its rolling hills and the occasional ancient roadway where man had cut the mountains.


i only choose 50s peroid because warfare would be more tactial then technical and realistic controls would be easier to simulate.

a simple auto generated infrastucture run by simple AI would be good enough place holder to be conqured, built up, or destroyed as players populate the world with their own creations

 :)

i guess more of a EVE +  sim + Risk (in real time) meets outtera
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on March 01, 2011, 05:40:57 pm
Current "plan" (subject to change) from what Cameni and Angrypig are looking for in a "game" is approximately 2k to 5k years from the fall of humanity.  This would show off the "virgin" Earth without human influence, except in a few ruins and strategically placed easter eggs.

So the tech would by necessity be "slightly" futuristic, although lower tech stuff (adequately dilapidated) would be very possible.

If no one's watched it yet, try to find the History channel's "Life After People" or whatever it's called.  Very eye-opening experience considering how little time is necessary to erase what we've done.  http://www.history.com/shows/life-after-people

(And just as an aside, this series inspired a possible scifi storyline for me ... considering it was approximately 65 million years since the fall of the dinosaurs.  After you watch the series, imagine how many civilizations might have risen and fallen during that time.)

*Edited for correctness*
Title: The Game
Post by: Fabrix7777 on May 20, 2011, 12:46:33 am
How about a game like Arma2 but bigger and better of course, with civs too in the same multi. Like one of the many mods of arma 2 like city life but playing at the same time in the same map.
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on May 20, 2011, 04:33:21 am
Quote from: Fabrix7777
How about a game like Arma2 but bigger and better of course, with civs too in the same multi. Like one of the many mods of arma 2 like city life but playing at the same time in the same map.

Welcome and Yes. Cameni and Angry pig just have to get the ATi OpenGL support worked out and a demo/game release will be ready shortly after. If mod support is as great as they are claiming a good Arma2 mod team could probably just code the entire combat environment and it would be superior to arma immediately.
Title: The Game
Post by: Spudly on May 29, 2011, 01:05:06 am
I really like your idea for the initial game.   I was thinking about how it could best be done and I have some ideas...


I think that trade would probably fuel the majority of exploration and activity.  The entire world would start off with a hidden resource map under it being procedurally generated based on some geology/geography influences.  Everything will require resources in some way.

The game would be mainly focused on empire building from the ground up.  The world would start off with a few major cities throughout the world, which would serve as optional starting locations.  These cities would be procedurally generated down to the building but with given random features for each(residence/commercial).  

Commercial buildings could be bought or built, but depending on function, could be more or less successful.  These businesses would have certain attributes which could make them more or less competitive.  Most businesses would perform basic functions like converting one or materials to another material.  Businesses, depending on capacity, would require a certain number of workers, thus requiring overhead costs and promoting residential development.

Level 1: The Beginning(optional)
The player will initially enter the game at one of these starting cities, with a given amount of money(starting at a car dealership/train depot/airport).  Initially, the objective of the game will be to make money.  You can do this by solving the various resource needs of the residents of the beginning city.  All the trade characteristics of the city will be presented to you in one panel.  Choosing a single resource will show all the places in town buying/selling that resource.  For steel you might see Steel Factory[Sell: 42/unit]  and Vehicle Factory[Buy: 55/unit].  From this you could see that by driving some steel across town, you could make $13/unit profit(- gas cost).    Likewise, from the pilot's perspective, there might be mini missions that require you to crop dust or fly mail to a nearby city.  

Throughout the game, the trade secrets of each city would become available to you as you explored them.  After a certain amount of money has been made, you would be upgraded to Level 2, where additional features would be available.

Level 2: Empire building
Level 2 would allow players to build an empire.  An empire is loosely defined as a set of assets(businesses and/or vehicles) and vehicle routes.  Routes could include:
-Purchasing material at one end, travel using a vehicle(plane/truck/train), selling material at another
    -Can set up vertically integrated businesses with routes simply being the action of relocating material(in this case, will cost you money instead of gain you money)
-Requirement of actually running the route yourself for the maiden voyage(have to fly it yourself first)
    -In this case, you might be able to record route as a vector path to recreate as "AI" or just for route run time
-Routes could be run by the player or turned into hired jobs, which would be flown by either AI(vector recorded or otherwise) or by other players(contents could be hidden) for the same cost(or scaled based on quantity).
    -A vehicle will be required for the mission for AI completion, but not for player completion
-These routes may be visually displayed to other players if capability exists
-The Routes would be traveled as regularly as possible(in real time) based on conditions provided(vehicle availability/profit conditions)

Prices will usually be a function of supply/demand, and thus as supply approaches requirement/holding capacity, selling prices will decrease.  For this reason, routes will be conditional based on profit/unit.  Vehicles could even have a route queue which priorities profit/hr.  This could essentially turn into a sort of airline tycoon type trader game in this respect.

The other main part of Empire building is about the specific businesses.  There will be businesses focused on raw material gathering(think mines,farms, logging companies, fisheries, oil rigs), refining companies(like sawmills, steel factory, oil refinery), manufacturing companies(car plant, airplane plant, construction company) and even storage/distribution centers.  Each will have their respective inputs/outputs with the exception of mines/logging companies.  

These raw material companies would be placed based on the results of prospecting(literally an action your character should be able to do anywhere).  This will give results of the land and you can interpret it how you wish.  Obviously, trees are a non-hidden resource.  A logging company set in open plains will likely not have good yields.

If a player was to randomly build a logging company out in the middle of nowhere, depending on size(like level 1, 2, 3 etc), it would require say 50 employees.  These 50 employees would set up residence near the business in the form of small houses.  Because of those employees, maybe a gas station would pop up and a small grocery store.  this would increase the resident number by a little more.  If you chose to add a sawmill and upgrade the size of the logging company, the population would increase again, prompting more houses and maybe a small school.  Over time your congregation would become a town and depending on how much you contributed yourself, you might be able to name it/control it(though going into that might be too in depth).  These towns would be procedurally generated off the initial placement of companies.

The Economy
All of this is driven by the economy.  Much of the price will be determined by the distance the resource is away, the difficulty(weight/space requirements) to obtain and the trade infrastructure currently in place.  Planes will be more expensive because of fuel and weight/space requirements.  Trains may be cheap on flat ground, but tracks might be too expensive in mountainous terrain.  Track royalties/space requirements may also apply for trains.  Vehicles and construction materials will likely be the main consumption of player resources, but things like food and transportation will be required by the cities as well.  



Ultimately, your "Empire" could be anything from a transport company, to a vertically integrated plane manufacturing company to a General Empire dabbling in all aspects.  I don't know if this is exactly how all the features would go, but it seems to follow your general idea of what you want in a game and it seems like it would be fun.  Also, for the most part, I suspect this technology would work fine off of a large database.

Anyhow, sorry for the extremely long, scattered idea.  Any thoughts?
Title: The Game
Post by: Jak_o_Shadows on May 29, 2011, 02:55:46 am
I sorta like the idea of that, but i'm more in favour of a barter system. That way cameni and angrypig wont' be able to screw up the currency via adding rewards for certain things (and thus causing massive inflation) (Happened once on a minecraft server i was on. They made skeletons worth 8 currency. Inflation went through the roof).

I really want to farm and sell water, as well as have a zeppelin. Also i plan on claiming some sort of major canal/passageway to exact tariffs from.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on May 29, 2011, 01:24:22 pm
Well, initially a barter system might work too, but I think it will not be flexible enough. We are thinking about basing the trade value on energy credits. Basically, the value of anything should be computed as the amount of energy that has gone into producing it - both the direct energy and indirect one from the energy gone into resources needed as inputs. Atop of it goes any premium the player deems appropriate, encompassing virtual economic tools like the resource sparsity and such.

As for the game, we'd like to keep it in sync with the background story (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=279). The story tells about a colonization ship, whose basic goal is to spread humanity across the stars to raise the probability of long-term survival of human race (from near zero on old Earth). On the planets it discovers the goal still holds, albeit in a smaller scale: colony pod modules are deployed to distant parts of the planet, to lower the risk of humanity being obliterated by a single local catastrophe.
 Never mind that the ship returns to Earth where the story takes place. Earth is changed and likely dangerous, so the plan is still valid. You'll be playing for colonists who land on a selected place and capture it for themselves, and start to exploit the land and the surrounding ones.

It's likely that every colony will have a different surplus that it can use for trade, and it should be encouraged to establish trade routes for that reason, or just to connect with others. Even if the inter-colony trade is slowly evolving initially, it could be so that the Mothership will be buying out the materials, in exchange for some services or energy. Hence it would establish some trading centers, probably near the old metropolitan areas - here it comes close to Spudly's idea.

Large cities of the past should be in the hands of thiwatokya though, so these probably won't be available, to make the game more interesting later.

Note - this is about the (slightly futuristic) game idea, but there will be also a sandbox mode where people could build what they want. I reckon there will be some groups willing to create a different setting, like the rail sim guys recreating a world of their rails and such.
Title: The Game
Post by: Spudly on May 30, 2011, 02:33:29 am
It's seems like the game is pretty much designed, I like it!  I'm hoping we'll see the ISA Outerra like the object here (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=158).  

I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.  Maybe for example, models would be made of materials which could be roughly calculated based on the model size.  
Someone could import a helicopter model and it might require resources:
hull(aluminum or carbon fiber or something)
    -this would be the imported model
    -this could designate the cargo carrying capability as well
flight panel(control interface which was maybe manufactured)
    -this might be required to have an in game control interface with it
engine
    -the engines would be the standardization part, different sizes/properties
    -Many different types to unlock(or whatever) such as light helicopter(500hp), heavy helicopter, propellor small/large
          -here you could have as many engines as you wanted/needed for a vehicle
    -for ground vehicles, tires could be attached as motored(then (engine/# of tires)horse power per tire) or just free moving
          -could be entire drive trains for suspension or otherwise
seat
    -seats could be designated, could be used for transport missions.
Likewise you could have entire buildings built of wood/brick/steel.

It might be too complex to do the engine thing, but would definitely be a fun feature to be able to place your engines/rotors onto theoretically any model.  This might also somewhat standardize what you see flying around to being somewhat realistic(might need prototype mode).  Tech would also improve based on the resources/designs people had available.  Nobody is going to have a huge battleship cube flying around.  They could, theoretically make something like an ISA Outerra, it would just take a huge amount of resources(and huge cargo!) and like 8 extra large anti gravity thruster engines.

Anyhow, any current plans for tying resources to models or standardizing vehicles?

Also a couple more questions...
Is everyone going to get a colony module and basically their own small supply of frozen people?

How complex will trade routes be?  Simple as in auto-managed with simple income/day or something.  Or complex as in requiring a vehicle to do it, you determine goods and AI is shown flying the route using the vehicle designated?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on May 30, 2011, 03:32:51 am
Quote from: Spudly
I'm hoping we'll see the ISA Outerra like the object here (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=158)
Yes, should be there. We have an idea how it should look, we just need an artist to design the thing, down to the detail of the pods that players will launch in towards the planet.

Quote
I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.
 
I think the most important thing would be to keep some standards of quality, realism for selected setting and also the legal side of things. Eventually the contributed models can be of arbitrary design, so that all sides in the game can stick to their cultural preferences or something, as long as they pass a criterion on Q/R/L. Ultimately the decision should be ours, but a better way would be probably to have an independent board that votes on it.

Another aspect is the balance. While every helicopter model could have the same parameters to avoid unbalancing, it would not be very entertaining. There should be a relatively simple formula that allows to assign better parameters to a model, but for an non-proportional cost, so that one can't grow the power of a machine indefinitely.
 
Quote
Anyhow, any current plans for tying resources to models or standardizing vehicles?
Everything will require appropriate resources, some special alloys may be first available only from the Mothership, until players build the needed industry and/or upgrade it.

Quote
Is everyone going to get a colony module and basically their own small supply of frozen people?
That's the idea. And several square km of land to capture, with more becoming available as the colony grows.

Quote
How complex will trade routes be?  Simple as in auto-managed with simple income/day or something.  Or complex as in requiring a vehicle to do it, you determine goods and AI is shown flying the route using the vehicle designated?
There definitely should be vehicles visibly coming and going, and the player could take the part in it too, or switch between the drivers. Of course, it will revert to a plain statistics when no one's looking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest) :)
Title: The Game
Post by: Flavien on May 30, 2011, 12:51:47 pm
Quote from: cameni
Quote from: Spudly
I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.
 
I think the most important thing would be to keep some standards of quality, realism for selected setting and also the legal side of things. Eventually the contributed models can be of arbitrary design, so that all sides in the game can stick to their cultural preferences or something, as long as they pass a criterion on Q/R/L. Ultimately the decision should be ours, but a better way would be probably to have an independent board that votes on it.

Another aspect is the balance. While every helicopter model could have the same parameters to avoid unbalancing, it would not be very entertaining. There should be a relatively simple formula that allows to assign better parameters to a model, but for an non-proportional cost, so that one can't grow the power of a machine indefinitely.
 

No idea how to do that, but I know that X-Plane do the feeling of an aircraft completely by the real characteristics when it was created. i.e. a knife can't fly while it can in FSX which use an aircraft.cfg file which define how it would fly.

Quote from: Wikip├ędia
X-Plane differentiates itself by implementing an aerodynamic model known as blade element theory. Traditionally, flight simulators try to emulate the real-world performance of an aircraft by using lookup tables to find known aerodynamic forces such as lift or drag, which vary with flight condition.

Don't know if you are already doing it and if it would be applicable  in this case, but when I saw you spoke about flying characteristics , I couldn't help to share my little knowledge. :)

(Sorry for eventual bad English, I'm French)
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on May 30, 2011, 01:40:38 pm
Quote from: Flavien
X-Plane differentiates itself by implementing an aerodynamic model known as blade element theory. Traditionally, flight simulators try to emulate the real-world performance of an aircraft by using lookup tables to find known aerodynamic forces such as lift or drag, which vary with flight condition.

We have no intent to concern ourselves with the depths of flight dynamics simulation - Outerra is primarily a world rendering engine and we will happily use either a table driven FDM library or a blade element theory based library in it. Or rather, we'll let developers use whatever they want.
We don't need to participate in holy wars, nor we are competent enough to judge the approaches - there are always bad and good sides in everything :)

For the moment we are using JSBSim FDM library, because it was available and it's suitable for integration into the engine.
Title: The Game
Post by: Tottel on May 30, 2011, 05:20:22 pm
As far as I can tell, Outerra has a fantastic flight-system already.

That trailer with the camera as a player on the ground and a helicopter flying by, is something I will remember for the rest of my days.
It was so incredibly awesome.

Back on topic, looking forward to that game. :)
Title: The Game
Post by: sheam86 on August 06, 2011, 11:24:07 am
The game idea sounds pretty damn good, especially the realms part.... because I may want play a futuristic galactic FPS game and traverse the planet with awesome vehicles, or just go medievil and journy the planet to slay dragons... Problem is I would think its mammoth tasks and would take years! scratch that... Decades maybe...

For an initial release candidate game... I think something fairly simple should be order, something that will be quick to make and impliment, just to show the potential it has, kinda like a techdemo in the form of a small game... Let actual devs work on full scale games to push your engine to the max, that way you can spend more time improving and supporting the engine, than to do that and have to make a game.. So think much smaller?

Just my two cents worth... Also, you guys can hire or approach an indie group of developers, negotiate for them to develop this game with your support, that way if its off your hands they can go wild with it and develop anything they want, and you guys can work on Documentation and support.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on August 08, 2011, 08:30:35 am
Actually we are not so much interested just in making an engine for everyone else. We want to have fun with making our own games. In fact we started to think about licensing only after some devs approached us because they liked the engine, or rather the potential in it, and wanted it for game types that we knew we would not cover by ourselves in any near future.

The realms are basically part of that plan - to let developers use what we have got for planetary terrain rendering, so they can focus on the parts that interest them most. Like specialized simulations or specific gameplay types. Let us deal with the terrain, vegetation and management of planetary scale data.

Yes the initial game will be initially simple, a demo. It will be also a platform where new features come in, where people and devs can see and exp it. Commercial games made by others will see the light of day only in some 2 years from the time the engine is made available.

We've been approached by a number of indie developers, and we also considered the model that a selected group would develop a game with our support early when there's no documentation and robust APIs. We have a few candidates, but there's an enormous amount of them lets-do-a-MMO types or just plainly naive and inexperienced ones with unrealistic plans. OT will not be easy to use at the beginning: lack of tools and overall immaturity, so we need teams that are capable of working in such an alpha regime.
Title: The Game
Post by: necro on August 09, 2011, 02:51:49 am
Whats your personal idea of the game? And will you develop just the engine-necessary-parts or will you also contribute line of codes for the final game?
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2011, 06:24:30 am
There's a bunch of ideas, but you know best that ideas are cheap :)
The first should be the building/transportation/driving game with fps elements we are talking about on this forum. It will start in alpha and grow probably forever. It's going to be relatively tightly tied to the engine and engine features, a sandbox not just for the players but also for developers and us.

As for other games, my personal favorite would be a Civilization-inspired game done in Outerra World. Quite a lot of work though.
Title: The Game
Post by: necro on August 09, 2011, 09:06:27 am
Sounds quite interesting. You can me hire for all of that ideas :U
Title: The Game
Post by: PeterBitt on August 09, 2011, 09:07:52 am
Quote from: cameni
....
As for other games, my personal favorite would be a Civilization-inspired game done in Outerra World. Quite a lot of work though.
this would be so cool! no need to smoke hundreds of cigarettes while waiting for the other players to finish their round, just look at the graphics :D
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2011, 09:55:33 am
LOL, not turn based, of course :D

The way of founding cities with a band of settlers, fighting wild tribes in the beginning and discovering stuff, building the cities and the infrastructure around and in between, expanding ..
Title: The Game
Post by: Spudly on August 09, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Cameni, your idea makes me think of the book Ringworld, though maybe with a more Planet of the Apes twist.  Find a planet inhabited by savages after a long expedition with your colony ship and you must unravel the clues to how the great civilization fell.
Title: The Game
Post by: cameni on August 09, 2011, 02:50:38 pm
Yes, that was more or less the original idea (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=279) for the backstory that would allow to have earth in more or less natural state, but with ruins of great cities. I don't think the omg-it's-earth twist should be used more than once though :)
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on August 09, 2011, 03:12:47 pm
That actually reminded me there was a typo of the year in the backstory :)
Title: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 09, 2011, 03:35:49 pm
Quote from: cshawnsmith
That actually reminded me there was a typo of the year in the backstory :)

Are you changing it to 2012.. CHANGE IT TO 2012!

They Mayans destroyed earth with all their nuclear waste!
Title: The Game
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on August 09, 2011, 03:38:32 pm
lol  I don't think we can build a 5km-long 2.5km-diameter interplanetary spaceship with a Fusion drive and quantum computers in less than a year ... especially now that NASA's budget is going to be gutted.

I'd originally set it for 2199 ... but in researching the timeline, realized that should have been 2099.
Title: The Game
Post by: yhwhluver on August 10, 2011, 12:15:38 pm
I very much prefer the Total War style to Civilization.  Seems to be more realistic and more differences between all of the civilizations.  Turn-based strategy with real-time battles.  Oh man, that would be so awesome.  No need for a separate battle map.
Title: The Game
Post by: SpaceFlight on August 10, 2011, 02:05:18 pm
Quote from: yhwhluver
I very much prefer the Total War style to Civilization.  Seems to be more realistic and more differences between all of the civilizations.  Turn-based strategy with real-time battles.  Oh man, that would be so awesome.  No need for a separate battle map.

I second that. A Total War game in Outerra. That would be very cool.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: DarkDXZ on September 21, 2011, 10:03:29 am
Quote from: yhwhluver
I very much prefer the Total War style to Civilization.  Seems to be more realistic and more differences between all of the civilizations.  Turn-based strategy with real-time battles.  Oh man, that would be so awesome.  No need for a separate battle map.

I second that. A Total War game in Outerra. That would be very cool.

Basically everyting would be very cool in Outerra - from Total War to Half-Life to Trackmania to Tetirs (yes - even that old, 8-bit Russian game would be cool in it!).

On a completely unrelated note, how much you think would such a game ulitizing Outerra cost? (obviously, freeware is always nice, isn't it?) (but I wouldn't bother paying some money either)
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 21, 2011, 12:42:57 pm
Quote from: yhwhluver
how much you think would such a game ulitizing Outerra cost? (obviously, freeware is always nice, isn't it?) (but I wouldn't bother paying some money either)

The way I see it. The outerra team creates the world as a blank canvas possibly free for download.. And mod makers sell their mods (CounterStrikeWorld?) for cash and the Outerra team gets a large percentage of the money from that. Just a thought.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: DarkDXZ on September 22, 2011, 09:36:25 am
Quote from: yhwhluver
how much you think would such a game ulitizing Outerra cost? (obviously, freeware is always nice, isn't it?) (but I wouldn't bother paying some money either)

The way I see it. The outerra team creates the world as a blank canvas possibly free for download.. And mod makers sell their mods (CounterStrikeWorld?) for cash and the Outerra team gets a large percentage of the money from that. Just a thought.

World-sized shooter? I like it! (good luck finding easter eggs!)
Theorithically, so many games will be created.

I'm gonna to go to Slovakia this vacations...Just leap over the Tatra...
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: Chiapet on October 13, 2011, 04:16:46 pm
ok, well going on the idea that we wont be able to do the MMO at first. perhaps  create the tools needed to create vehicle that work in game. also give us/show us the tools needed to create structures and ensure we have a smooth way of adding them to the game. from there, we( the playerbase0 will beging making all our own stuff that will be available to YOU. we can then post pics of our objects and cities etc and you can decide to add them to the "official" library. from there you can build up( with our help) the building blocks of the worl for whatever type of game you want. I like the idea of a cool RPG type game and perhaps a ww2 and ww3 type game. a space simulator would be cool as well( maybe hold off on that though at first). fr4om there, we get tools for creating our own worlds, not just earth but alien ones. each of these worlds could then be linked by the Outtera game. from this point youll have a huge number of tools and objects to then sell to game companiesetc. these game companies could link to outtera to get players who they may charge for access. or they may use the base tech for standalone games. meanwhile your base of players(which will continue to grow) will help to keep creating new content and worlds. Some of these players may eventually become employees of outterra in charge of certain games within the main game, allowing you( and them) perhaps to make money doing what they love. eventually the money will be flowing in for you to have the servers needed to create Massive MMOs.

imagine our solar system being modeled for a space game. then imagine each solar system made being on its seperate server. from there people can make space craft that "warp" to new sytems much like star wars. allowing for all kinds of possibilities. mmm
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: TheChippedFlywheel on December 28, 2011, 06:52:46 pm
Owning plots of land would be nice... I would love to own my house up in Maine and in Massachusetts... and build my house there!

My thoughts:
Group made trucking/ hauling game
            What I mean: Groups make their own buildings, run their own business and pay workers. Money can be used to buy trucks from other companies and such. (planes,cars, trucks, boats)
Definitely has to be a group designated to raw materials, to get everything moving.

Travel game, basically do what ever you want. Drive where you want. On your days off from work, get your buggy and take off down to the deserts for some baja. Park your vehicle at a motel for a ran by another company. Run a tow company, really, anything.

Weather effects with water and snow would be nice, plowing, but don't ruin my fps... :)

I am just thinking of a self run game, by the people, for the people. Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: LukiX17 on March 04, 2012, 05:19:13 pm
I'm new to  Outerra, and i don't really know what are the capacite's of this Simulator/Game can do, but from what i've seen for now is load's of tree's, they are everywere !!
And that is like a goldmine of limberjacks, and mayby Outerra could have a Tree Cutting sind to it and mayby combing it with trucks and that, Well Hauling stuff to haul the wood out of the forest,
If it's possible it would be cool to have a company side to it where you have to clear trees to put roads and tracks on top.
Just an idea ;)


Sorry for the bad english, i'm french ;) LukiX17
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: Jagerbomber on March 04, 2012, 06:46:27 pm
It's gonna take me a while to get my trucks from the US to France.  ;D
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on March 04, 2012, 07:44:05 pm
It's gonna take me a while to get my trucks from the US to France.  ;D
Lucky for you they drive under water.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: mctash on March 04, 2012, 09:28:19 pm
Looking at everyones ideas one application of Outerra engine  (which i'm sure will have been said many time before) could be another secondlife type affair except much much better. Not sure why but that got me thinking about in game economics in that kind of usage. Are people for or against in-game currency being exchangable for real $$?

I think on the plus side it could be quite lucritive for Outerra and early adopters but maybe it would be bad for the whole thing overall as $$ is a barrier to entry/continued enjoyment for alot of people.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: SpaceFlight on March 05, 2012, 10:16:02 am
Looking at everyones ideas one application of Outerra engine  (which i'm sure will have been said many time before) could be another secondlife type affair except much much better. Not sure why but that got me thinking about in game economics in that kind of usage. Are people for or against in-game currency being exchangable for real $$?

When more developers can start to build their games with OT, I would not be surprised if someone would come up with a game where in-game currency can be exchanged for real dollars, since some of those exist already but in different engines.
I think though that the existing "games" where that is possible are not real games, but more like glorified slot machines and often they are strictly "pay to win". I also think that things might get ugly relatively fast between people if real money is involved in this manner in a video game.

Quote
I think on the plus side it could be quite lucritive for Outerra and early adopters but maybe it would be bad for the whole thing overall as $$ is a barrier to entry/continued enjoyment for alot of people.

You have a point there imo, (edit begin) especially if basic things like a "good" gun or ammunition are overly expensive (edit end)
and I hope that "Anteworld's" in game economics won't be developed into this direction.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: [deleted] on March 05, 2012, 11:05:57 am
You want to make anteworld like tf2 ? You know a lot of people got disappointed about the shop, the trading, the scammers, the hat-mania ? It's going to fail. I bought tf2 years ago, and I don't play it anymore from the hat mania beginning. It's a shame.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: LukiX17 on March 05, 2012, 04:29:28 pm
The currency it's a good idea, in a multiplayer mode it's world be cool see who is stinking rich and who is poor as a fart ^^ , but it would be boring and pointless in a singleplayer mode it's would be too "fixed", you can't haggle prices and dominate on you're own,
But to have real money involed would really dissapoint loads of people "Like me", you by a game at a price, to have the full game, Yes ??
So why put even more money in to a game where you've allready paid for it...

Sorry for the english, i'm french, LukiX17
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on March 05, 2012, 08:56:02 pm
Hrm... How about you can't enter the multi-player arena until you reach a certain status/skill level/cash flow potential?

That way there are no real noobs in the multiplayer world. Everyone has to spend a week or more earning up to it.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: mctash on March 05, 2012, 09:08:17 pm
The currency it's a good idea, in a multiplayer mode it's world be cool see who is stinking rich and who is poor as a fart ^^ , but it would be boring and pointless in a singleplayer mode it's would be too "fixed", you can't haggle prices and dominate on you're own,
But to have real money involed would really dissapoint loads of people "Like me", you by a game at a price, to have the full game, Yes ??
So why put even more money in to a game where you've allready paid for it...

Sorry for the english, i'm french, LukiX17

Thats not the kind of economics I meant. More like second life. Where it is possible to "earn" money in game, perhaps by resource gathering or crafting. In that respect being able to exchange for real currency may not be so bad. Im sure there is something wildly off with my economics there though as my econmics skill level is 0.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: bigbeautifuldoll on March 08, 2012, 07:45:20 am
Can i suggest a virtual world like 'there.com'?
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: necro on March 08, 2012, 08:04:26 am
You may suggest everything you want. The question is, who shall create such a mod ;) And whats the difference between this and 2nd life?
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: PTTG on March 09, 2012, 11:55:43 am
I'm wondering how well the engine would work on a purely abstract angle.

Let's say you want to make a total annihilation type RTS- something with loads and loads of units and a combination of base building and remote control. For such a game to work, units would have to be able to fight intelligently in places on the globe where players aren't.

For instance, let's say the players have conflicting bases- one near Petersburg, the other near Paris. The players are camped out in their bases, so only the Petersburg and Paris areas are actively being simulated.

If the player wants to attack the other's base directly, then the game works fine- the robots march over and the combat all happens in a loaded area. But what if both players decide to go to the south pole? There's no players there, so (presumably) the areas don't exist. The game could certainly say that there's some flying robots in the area, but combat smart enough to be aware of rocks or small terrain features wouldn't be possible.

Are there reasonable workarounds? Can the engine load up arbitrary chunks of terrain?
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: cameni on March 09, 2012, 12:24:59 pm
Yes it can generate any patch of land that's needed. Of course, there are memory constraints, so some things could be handled statistically.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: PTTG on March 09, 2012, 12:56:19 pm
Hmm... Sounds neat. I guess I would want to be able to load up a low-detail elevation-only map, and a separate player vision map... hmm...

I can't wait to play with this engine!
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: zzz on March 13, 2012, 10:30:46 am
All I want for xmas is a planetary invasion simulator. Don't mind if I'm the invader or defender.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: PytonPago on March 14, 2012, 04:45:13 am
All I want for xmas is a planetary invasion simulator. Don't mind if I'm the invader or defender.

Trying to play the bad guys from Chronicles of Riddic 2 ? : P
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: zzz on March 14, 2012, 09:09:10 am
Mass Effect and Stargate models are freely available. Could do a Reapers vs Human Alliance or Goauld vs US Airforce game.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: PTTG on March 14, 2012, 12:16:02 pm
There's definitely something to be said for a War of the Worlds type asymmetric warfare game.

The Aliens have a totally fixed and extremely limited supply of very powerful material, which gets distributed initially in a series of directed landfalls. I'd even let them target places with the landing pods

The Humans get a virtually limitless supply of really weak "insurgents" or what have you, plus a moderate assortment of more tough military units and bases. As long as they have bases, they can get more units, and certain other facilities (mines, factories, cities, power plants, all of specific types) allow specific units to be made. So if you have uranium mines, U refineries, and missile factories, you can have ICBMs.

The Aliens need to destroy 99% of the population- presumably by attacking cities- AND all the military units.

The Humans need to destroy every Alien unit.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: DurMan667 on April 02, 2012, 02:52:38 am
There's definitely something to be said for a War of the Worlds type asymmetric warfare game.

The Aliens have a totally fixed and extremely limited supply of very powerful material, which gets distributed initially in a series of directed landfalls. I'd even let them target places with the landing pods

The Humans get a virtually limitless supply of really weak "insurgents" or what have you, plus a moderate assortment of more tough military units and bases. As long as they have bases, they can get more units, and certain other facilities (mines, factories, cities, power plants, all of specific types) allow specific units to be made. So if you have uranium mines, U refineries, and missile factories, you can have ICBMs.

The Aliens need to destroy 99% of the population- presumably by attacking cities- AND all the military units.

The Humans need to destroy every Alien unit.

Easy to win as the humans.  Just build one squad of guys with the sniffles and watch the magic happen.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: smgarden on May 28, 2012, 08:09:59 am
Firstly,I'm so sorry about my poor English.To be honest,I want to give some advice without reading your discussion.(Cause I can't understand most of then) An anime named<Accel World>,which televising on Japan,is great similar to your engine.A scene as big and actual(but you could find different styles of the real world) as the EARTH,is used as a stage where heroes (created by system,according to juveniles's psychic trauma,so everyone of them is the one and only) fight for the points```OK,the story is so so,but the idea,at least on my viewpoint,is great as your OUTERRA.Why not to search the anime'torrent on google and download it for an expand field of vision,just for fun?
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: cireyoretihw on June 02, 2012, 01:12:36 am
well a chance to go back to the cave and take only the tech to start fresh is a awesome thing...

would like to design new things without the restriction that there is no market for them or people say they can't be done .... but they may really change the way we live ...

why be restricted by fix wing and gas driven devices ...
why be build what has always been built just because it was ...
what if we forgot all the bad and only thought of the good things ..

think of making new tech and building future not past ...

like why build buildings ... build a water slide connecting hydro farms and fish farms as part of 1 mile square structure on 50 ft arches or supported by floating pyramids so ground level is keep natural state ...

rail-less train cars using some kind of hovering superstition ... ( you think not possible in Real World) but we are talking about fantasy world RIGHT where anything is possible ... if we only knew how ...

legged not wheel ...... spider legs
solar not fuel

what if we expand on what we know now and break into a different future ...

as far as trade and money ... its good but more then one type of income ...

if something can become part of the Outerra world for all to use then it should be like in-game royalty income but if it can be passed between players (like a crafted object) the in-game commerce

if i design something from scratch then i could publish it to Outerra for a commission or royalty and then it will be accessed by all
but it i keep the rights and build something from it and sell the finished product to another player for some barter/trade methods allowed ...

BTW i hope that  have the options not to be in the REALM that combat is in but have option to enter it if i wish to ...

i also like the TIME TRAVEL REALM option ... like what DOOR do i enter to day ...

OR maybe every one is on a different world but all their activity is echoed onto a master copy world that they can jump into or back from... like the nightmare version ..


ALSO would like the ability to be part of the Outerra fine tuning

JUST idea how hard would it be to have world
Ringworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld))
or Dyson sphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere))
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: Sunnyyello on October 04, 2012, 10:53:34 pm
Has anyone proposed that energy itself be used as currency in conjunction with other forms forms trade? What do you guys think of that prospect? 
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: ZeosPantera on October 04, 2012, 11:37:10 pm
Well if the fuel can be materialized and stored then it could be used to barter deals. Barrels of XXX for women and spices.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: Sunnyyello on October 04, 2012, 11:51:44 pm
Well if the fuel can be materialized and stored then it could be used to barter deals. Barrels of XXX for women and spices.
Spices...I think I'm gonna need an entire silo of energy ready at all times if that's the case!!! Oh yeah women are good too. haha  ;)
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: GHAO on February 16, 2013, 12:13:25 pm
Okay, my two cents:
When you begin, you are offered a choice: explorer, constructor, empire-builder, citizen. More could be added, like soldier. When you click one, you are given your avatar, with the name USERNAME_NUMBER. So I would become GHAO_1. If, once you've exited and reopened, you decide to be something different, you change the number. So username is always obvious, but you can have multiple avatars depending on what takes your fancy each night. Suppose I started as an empire-builder, GHAO_1. Next night I choose the same, the username GHAO_1 remains. The next night I am a citizen, I become GHAO_2. As more options come through, the end number increases, but to show-up the developers, they get a special insignia (like cameni_100!) showing they can't be attacked or something (because they're testing in-game or doing something else). Maybe modders testing can enter the sandbox, but appear in mulitplayer still, albeit with the ! at the end. Perhaps.
Once you've clicked your choice, you get taken to a splash screen, with the options of designing your avatar's appearance or just not caring. Not caring either creates a random appearance or uses your previous appearance. Designing takes you somewhere similar to Sims, perhaps, with basic face shaping, hair styling, clothes choosing.
Then you're in the game. An explorer walks, drives, flies into the wilderness, looking for resources or good places to settle. Back at base (if there is one), he can use the coordinates from the chromium browser to show off his discoveries. Out in the field, he can also call (using chat functions) people out to begin salvaging, or drilling, etc.. A constructor is in charge of roads and railways. To avoid flamewars in realtime, there could be a delay of 24 hours in which any road pattern saved by a constructor is permanent. A constructor also builds the oil wells, algae plants, etc.. An empire-builder plans and rules over these. When military interaction and diplomacy come into play, the empire-builders become more important - they choose tribes/clans etc, and who 'owns' what. They can set jobs as well - suppose wood needs cutting down from XXX and taken to YYY. A citizen does these jobs. They could be a doctor ('healing' injured people, although in-game death would have to be carefully managed), or a truckdriver, or a pilot. They would use a jobs board, perhaps similar to ones used in AirHauler (for Flight Simulator X and 9 and X-Plane) to get their jobs. Once they pick one or more than one, they disappear. Chat could be used for people to request a certain job, or to ask someone else if they could do it instead. A soldier does soldier-y things.
There would have to be some sort of skill-level. If two doctors were vying for kudos (my imaginary currency, also beloved of Iain M Banks), they could brag about how good they were. Maybe it would be an XP thing. But generic stats like Speed, Health, Strength could be improved upon in a 'gym'. Intelligence stats would enable certain jobs, say to become a pilot requires more intelligence than driving a Tatra. A doctor thus would gain more intelligence than strength, and a soldier the opposite.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: MemTheMiner on February 18, 2013, 03:33:12 pm
This engine is incredible!
An idea i had was a life simulator,just a full blown life simulator(could be sandbox).You start out taking your A levels and that gets your grades and sets you up for the game.So you start off into the world with X amount of money and your A levels(if you get any) so you have to get a job which can be in any sector, you can get ill and put in hospital(also pay the costs if in USA or other country) and work and live find a wife,settle down or go trekking in Peru rain forests or drag racing anything is possible and everything is possible :D This is just my idel game but thats just me so thanks for reading.
Just pm me and this can develop further if you want but chances of that are minimal :D

-MeM
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: robmuzz on June 15, 2013, 05:47:32 pm
Hello,

I've only just found out about / downloaded / and paid into, this incredible project. I am really excited to see something come to life that was only possible in my imagination until recently.

On my first day of playing with this, something profound struck me...

After a few hours looking about (finding where I live etc...) I found myself on the shore on the Eastern coast or New England (near where the Pilgrims landed in 1660)

It was looking at the untouched and breathtakingly beautiful land ahead of me, I had a cascade of emotions from delight at the unexplored land before me and terror at the sheer unknown that lay beyond.

I made my way west to explore this new continent, and a game started to unfold like the rolling hills before me. (I think you can guess where this is going !)

All this would need is a way to harvest wood and food, and then a system to craft items and tools, and you have the ability to discover the New World for yourself !

Anyone think it would be worth exploring?
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: cameni on June 16, 2013, 02:27:32 am
Me! :)

I would really like to play such a colonization game, a kind of a real-time first person Civilization game. Been imagining it way before OT started.
However, there are many obstacles, both in the design and the amount of work this would require, and we needed to simplify all aspects of it.

Anteworld concept is basically this thing but reduced into a setting that is going to be simpler to implement. While the planet will be almost back to the pristine state, the player will have machines to help him form it, and to achieve the goals in a shorter game time.

But still, one day I'd like to make the historic version too. Wolves and all.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: adriaan on June 16, 2013, 05:06:21 am
and we NEED horses! it would be amazing to travel with your friends in multiplayer for days and days. you would have to make camps and fires to keep yourself safe at night, and encounter friendly and unfriendly players
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: robmuzz on June 16, 2013, 08:19:08 am
To me, going back rather than foreward in time seems more logical, as you would expect at least some evidence of human habitation.

The way the game looks at the moment, feels, as you say, pristine, untouched.

The only drawback with a historical setting would be the loss of flight, but the UFO, would be fine for RTS mode.
Title: Re: The Game
Post by: Bunkers on June 19, 2013, 10:35:03 am
a kind of a real-time first person Civilization game. Been imagining it way before OT started.
I've been hoping for such an epic game myself.

To make it more achievable it could start by creating just a survival game, where you start on foot somewhere random and must gather food and survive predators. If it gets some decent momentum (players) you could add more and more features along the way, so you could make tools, build houses etc. And step by step one day end up with something like a real-time first person CIV game.

Dare I dream it?  :)