Outerra forum

Anteworld - Outerra Game => Tech demo, support, updates => Topic started by: 2eyed on September 16, 2013, 02:15:45 pm

Title: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: 2eyed on September 16, 2013, 02:15:45 pm

I tried to make water looking more realistic than default one, which appears to me way to bright, blue and plastic.
In particular enviroment/sky reflection is somewhat off. I know, your engine is ever evolving and water rendering will not stay the same as it is now.
But for what we have now, tweaking the atmosphere and water settings give quite good results imo.
It isn't whitout side effects on sky and terrain lighting though.
Mainly I reduced  beta rayleigh and water settings.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: cameni on September 16, 2013, 02:37:36 pm

That looks nice.

There were several changes in the water rendering since the latest version, more detail added to the water surface and the lighting model changed - especially when the sun was lower, the water was too bright previously, not taking into account the angle.

Are those two screens using the same sun position?

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: 2eyed on September 16, 2013, 03:29:57 pm

Yes, same sun position, same time of day, location around Seattle.
As you can see, the reddening of dawn atmosphere is gone too.
The tweak works best for lower sun positions, not as good for high noon, when reflections are reduced.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: James on September 16, 2013, 08:08:05 pm

The sky seems a bit grey, in the distance the mountains have grey in front of them.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 17, 2013, 01:34:15 am

That tweak looks amazing. Why does the sun seem so different? The shadows don't move so I know it is the same.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: KelvinNZ on September 17, 2013, 02:55:05 am

Quote from: ZeosPantera on September 17, 2013, 01:34:15 am

That tweak looks amazing. Why does the sun seem so different? The shadows don't move so I know it is the same.

Indeed! I think Brano should set those settings as default in the next build if you ask me.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: cameni on September 17, 2013, 04:27:28 am

Okay, tried it - while it looks good on that one screen of yours, it doesn't work elsewhere very well.
Basically it has almost removed the atmosphere, suppressed the atmo color saturation, erased the feeling of distance. Water rendering changed in my version, so the water color on my screens is different:

(http://i.minus.com/jbpgFncciiAJu6.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbpgFncciiAJu6)	(http://i.minus.com/jKknJro22mRAA.jpg) (http://minus.com/lKknJro22mRAA)
(http://i.minus.com/je9umvQb0gBmU.jpg) (http://minus.com/le9umvQb0gBmU)	(http://i.minus.com/jbxKTUyHj4LnDn.jpg) (http://minus.com/lbxKTUyHj4LnDn)

Terrain reminds me of atmosphere-less flight simulators, and the sky of overcast or smog, although in that case the visibility would be much lower.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: KelvinNZ on September 17, 2013, 05:21:01 am

First impression, it looked nice but the facts speak for themselves I guess  :)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: necro on September 17, 2013, 05:52:57 am

Am i the only one here, who thinks the old version looks more realistic?

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 17, 2013, 07:39:02 am

The problem here being noone REALLY knows what it is like to float hundreds of feet up in the air and look across mountains and plains and across the oceans. We all just expect a nice clear view of the world and that damn hazy atmosphere messes up the view.

Stand on the ground with a mile of view distance and you hardly notice it. But outerra screens hardly end after a mile.

EDIT:: Just to be clear. The water does look WAY better in the modified screens but is just too clear. That blue in the original is way too blue blue type blue but has the right opacity. So a less blue ocean and a more foggy water. Yes.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: aWac9 on September 17, 2013, 09:24:59 am

that I'm bad with colors.
I like yogi bear, when I see a fork .. I take

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: 2eyed on September 17, 2013, 09:48:07 am

It seems to be a matter of taste as almost everything. Some like punchy colors, some like it less cartoonish.
My focus was  only on water rendering at lower light conditions. If we could get there without touching the atmosphere settings it would be nice. I wasn't able to do it without reducing these parameters.
You are right, sky and terrain appearance is quite a bit affected. So it would be good to have an extra color saturation adjustment for the water.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: Sam on September 17, 2013, 12:01:27 pm

Yes, I like them. Looks much more realistic.
And yes, please leave the dust. It's more realistic anyway.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: 2eyed on September 17, 2013, 03:40:30 pm

I did another try, now for a mid day setting with "thicker" atmosphere.
Attached are comparison screens tweak vs default and the world.cfg.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 17, 2013, 04:04:50 pm

Yes, more of that.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: Peca on September 17, 2013, 09:28:20 pm

Its rare, but sometimes the view can be realy clear, like
(http://www.paritynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Mount-Everest.jpg)
..so everyone is right  :D

The "atmosferic thickness" feeling depends in real world on the amount of water and dust and pollution in atmosfere. In outerra, I think it would best to make it a part of the weather system parameters.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: foxfiles on September 18, 2013, 06:33:27 am

I know that OT is in a Quest for the most natural/real/plausible renderings (realism),
but in some specific cases, I don't know if it's doable,
but think it could be helpful to be able to deactivate (or minimize) some of the realistic effects...especially in the atmosphere...

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 21, 2013, 07:32:46 pm

In pic below i played with the atmosphere tab. I find there's so much possibilities  for lighting and color for when weather gets in. One more control in the atmosphere tab i'd like to see though, is  a haze control where you could set from very humid saturated air up to very dry air. I find OT somehow hazy by default. Would like to see what it could look like in a very clear day like the photo Peca posted.


Top photo is default color.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/4479/m92e.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 21, 2013, 08:19:14 pm

Nevermind, i found  how to reduce the haze

(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/9382/h30c.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 21, 2013, 09:07:21 pm

Sorry but i just amazed by the lighting possibilities. Now these settings i tried dont really work as well when changing the time of the day.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/3184/hzc2.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: James on September 21, 2013, 09:28:59 pm

Quote from: M7 on September 21, 2013, 08:19:14 pm

Nevermind, i found  how to reduce the haze

(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/9382/h30c.jpg)

How do you do that? I can't find a Haze option.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 21, 2013, 09:39:25 pm

Sorry, there's no haze option but by playing with the Atmosphere setting like shown in the last image, you can reduce the impression of haze.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: PytonPago on September 22, 2013, 03:12:22 am

Quote from: M7 on September 21, 2013, 09:07:21 pm

(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/3184/hzc2.jpg)

WHAT IS THAT THING behind the tatra in the water (second pic.) ? Making an platform ?

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 22, 2013, 08:58:33 am

 I was experimenting with some bending tools in sketchup a while ago and decided to make  somekind of modern architectural structure with it. Then i gave it some glass property to see how the light would play through 4+ layers in outerrra. I find the results quite interesting but it can look weird at some angle with so many layers of glass to render.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:28 am

...like this angle.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: foxfiles on September 22, 2013, 10:12:25 am

Quote from: M7 on September 21, 2013, 07:32:46 pm

a haze control where you could set from very humid saturated air up to very dry air

I do agree...

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 22, 2013, 12:45:08 pm

First shot of that structure is impressive M7.. Second.......... yeah, needs work.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: PytonPago on September 22, 2013, 03:06:01 pm

Quote from: ZeosPantera on September 22, 2013, 12:45:08 pm

First shot of that structure is impressive M7.. Second.......... yeah, needs work.

... its more of an reflection issue ... realistic reflection trough so many layers is difficult to do. Real  world physical phenomena doesnt apply there, just approximations of their collective outcome ...  :-\

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 22, 2013, 03:29:05 pm

Quote from: PytonPago on September 22, 2013, 03:06:01 pm

... its more of an reflection issue ... realistic reflection trough so many layers is difficult to do. Real  world physical phenomena doesnt apply there, just approximations of their collective outcome ...  :-\

Probably the same kind of issue as with fog atm.

Now i just made another test to get less hazy view. Mainly have to play with rayleight. It doesn't look better but at least the option is there. Buttom image is default.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/4353/7fsn.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: Timmo on September 22, 2013, 05:07:07 pm

Wow that first shot is magnificent! The colours are perfect for a cold clear day

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 22, 2013, 09:08:12 pm

UGH.. That first shot.. I though it was a real picture. The weather system needs to to get installed!

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 22, 2013, 10:44:36 pm

A panoramic view

(http://imageshack.us/a/img31/1926/qlgk.jpg)




and one from space. With some clouds it would look quite similar to real photos from space.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/2170/p2b3.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 22, 2013, 11:06:58 pm

Now with almost lunar lighting, very thin atmosphere.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img4/9726/dn3c.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: Chaoz on September 23, 2013, 12:05:53 am

Quote from: M7 on September 22, 2013, 10:44:36 pm

and one from space. With some clouds it would look quite similar to real photos from space.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/2170/p2b3.jpg)

I knew it... They are already here!!! Save yourselves!!

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: PytonPago on September 23, 2013, 01:29:34 am

Quote

I knew it... They are already here!!! Save yourselves!!

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/176/5/3/me_wallpaper___garrus_by_pineappletree-d2zld8t.jpg)

 :D

Doe, i have to admit, i like that T-34 there ...

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: M7 on September 23, 2013, 11:00:07 am

That T-34 is a super detailed model i found in the sketchup library. Every single piece of track is 3d modeled.

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 23, 2013, 12:10:16 pm

Looks like the same guy that modeled the Challenger Tank I found on Sketchup.

(http://i3.minus.com/iwvx16hdmTTjH.png)

(http://i5.minus.com/ib2kLnZkcZNweZ.jpg)

(http://i6.minus.com/ibj674rw5nxCEx.jpg)

(http://i5.minus.com/i9CXR3OPynQ3K.jpg)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: Sam on September 23, 2013, 02:34:32 pm

Oops, verry funny wather colors they are.  ::)

Title: Re: Water color tweak for more realistic oceans
Post by: PytonPago on September 24, 2013, 12:33:13 am

Quote from: M7 on September 23, 2013, 11:00:07 am

That T-34 is a super detailed model i found in the sketchup library. Every single piece of track is 3d modeled.

Single tracks ... if just OT would handle those like the Mechanical Pro can handle gear-systems - that would be eyecandy.  8)