Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Development screen shots and videos => Topic started by: cameni on November 02, 2013, 05:43:56 pm

Title: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: cameni on November 02, 2013, 05:43:56 pm
A flight over Mexico showing new biome colors and vegetation distribution.
Music By Rich Douglas (http://richdouglas.net (http://richdouglas.net))

Outerra biome colors & vegetation density (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJUPdABgsrA#ws)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Jagerbomber on November 02, 2013, 05:45:27 pm
These were once fertile lands... 'til weather waged war on man.
The seas rose...
The sun scorched the earth...
and the people fled.

But some....... remained behind.

 8)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: PytonPago on November 02, 2013, 07:41:20 pm
Damn beautiful ... cant even imagine the outcome with rivers and clouds. 
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 02, 2013, 08:55:40 pm
I was so expecting something at the very end. A small city. Some vehicles driving around..

Also you need to allow the UFO to get closer to the ground again. You can tell the camera hits it's chin on the ground and doesn't show off the moving grass enough.

Was this a scripted trip or did you just do it manually?
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: KelvinNZ on November 02, 2013, 11:08:45 pm
That is talent! Beautiful!
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2013, 02:09:11 am
Was this a scripted trip or did you just do it manually?
There's a new tool for flight path recording, where you can capture a flight and then adjust the individual waypoints and their parameters.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Bartolomeus on November 03, 2013, 04:26:31 am
That looks amazing! Great work! :)

Marko
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Revolver on November 03, 2013, 06:57:56 am
WoW, that is beautiful!Thanks!(http://s15.rimg.info/f424bbadf5cc6434898ae06d59ee8867.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-888685575.html)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Steve.Wilson on November 03, 2013, 11:23:46 am
Lovely.  Extremely!  Was that shot in real time, Brano?  If so, what were the specifications of the system that was used, if you don't mind sharing?

It does show one startling truth.  When man is gone, it's the pine trees that will take over!  ;)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 03, 2013, 02:17:10 pm
Lovely.  Extremely!  Was that shot in real time, Brano?  If so, what were the specifications of the system that was used, if you don't mind sharing?

He has posted this in the YT comments

"Real time at 30 fps on Radeon 6850. The entry velocity was >128 km/s, most of the flight then at 5.6 km/s"
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: professorx on February 24, 2014, 03:24:58 pm
Still think that the rock on mountains look too gray from afar.
I've been to Sequoia National Park in California(where the biggest trees in the world live) and the cliffsides look light gray to white.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: PytonPago on February 24, 2014, 03:55:35 pm
Still think that the rock on mountains look too gray from afar.
I've been to Sequoia National Park in California(where the biggest trees in the world live) and the cliffsides look light gray to white.

Just saying.

 ... well, there will be still more and more updates on biome data ... Japan has too some places of inconsistent texturing and a lot of small unknown regions around the world too (not to mention terrain data in poles) ... it will go slowly to its place ...
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: HiFlyer on February 24, 2014, 06:18:58 pm
Its a beautiful video and I've watched it more than once.

The only criticism I have is that very often the grass texture (when seen from a height) seems over-bright, almost like a Day-Glo paint color, or a green fluorescent safety jacket. Sometimes it works, but for me, its usually pretty artificial looking. I hope that somebody in development agrees and adjusts the color eventually.  :)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: 2eyed on February 25, 2014, 09:50:39 am
Some time ago, cameni posted, that there should be a conversion for the raw data to make the colors more realistic.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: HiFlyer on February 25, 2014, 09:57:28 am
Some time ago, cameni posted, that there should be a conversion for the raw data to make the colors more realistic.

Cool! I just commented because interest seems to be ramping up a bit with videos and mentions everywhere, and people seeing it might wrongly have that as one of their first impressions.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: 2eyed on February 26, 2014, 09:46:04 am
To be more precise, this is actually what cameni wrote:
Colors - yes it's using compiled Blue Marble data, the problem is that the colors there do not represent raw color values, but were manipulated to make them fit into a single color map. It's non-linear, and we need to apply a reverse transformation - this too is subject to further evolution.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Heyworth on April 14, 2014, 06:28:36 pm
I think tweaking certain colours will have a very profound effect on the overall graphics...
A 'simple' coding tweak to make each 2D tree vary between 10 different colour shades as opposed to a blanket 'stock dark green', could vastly improve the appearance of the landscape. Likewise with blades if grass etc.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: HiFlyer on April 14, 2014, 09:03:14 pm
Its not even a subtle wrongness; its very obvious.

As a reality check I took several flights through X-plane 10, Microsoft flight, FSX, DCS, Aerofly, War Thunder etc, and looked carefully at ground color and tree distribution.

Nothing else I looked at showed anything like the disparity between ground and vegetation colors shown in Outerra.

Microsoft flight (RV6 repaint by me)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img546/4918/image007zq.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/6383/image004qnl.jpg)

DCS
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/FC3_SCR_03_zpse07a8f37.jpg)

Proland
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/image188_zps9a897a8d.png)

Outerra
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/GreenGreenGreen_zps932f04e5.jpg)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: ZeosPantera on April 14, 2014, 09:43:02 pm
Well if the blue marble data says the grass is green. It is. Maybe a tool to tone it down. Try adjusting your Ground Reflectance in your atmospheric settings.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: PytonPago on April 15, 2014, 05:18:29 am
Hmm ... would be interesting to see DCS and OT footage side by side with an identical view on or from the Elbrus ... (proland and MFS too if they have the regions so the engine terrain-specializes could be nicely visible ...)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: M7 on April 15, 2014, 09:51:45 am
If you dont like the color of the grass, you can always colorise the whole view  by clicking the 'color' in sun color & intensity in environment setting. It's a bit like wearing sunglasses 8)

(http://i.imgur.com/dVHK3X9.jpg) (http://imgur.com/dVHK3X9)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: M7 on April 15, 2014, 09:58:57 am
I think tweaking certain colours will have a very profound effect on the overall graphics...
A 'simple' coding tweak to make each 2D tree vary between 10 different colour shades as opposed to a blanket 'stock dark green', could vastly improve the appearance of the landscape. Likewise with blades if grass etc.

For trees there's quite a bit of variations in color already.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: HiFlyer on April 15, 2014, 11:15:31 am
The problem with modifying those settings is that they can affect other things as well and not necessarily for the better.

I think they need an artist on the team, but for now I'm just gonna drop it.

Maybe it will be looked at, one day.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: 2eyed on April 15, 2014, 12:42:59 pm
I think tree shading is exceptionally well done, given that they are only 2d.
Biome colors are still off, but cameni is aware of needed refinements.
Changing the atmospheric settings is no solution, since it affects  sky and water accordingly.
Let's hope for the next update!
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Heyworth on April 15, 2014, 12:51:18 pm
I think tweaking certain colours will have a very profound effect on the overall graphics...
A 'simple' coding tweak to make each 2D tree vary between 10 different colour shades as opposed to a blanket 'stock dark green', could vastly improve the appearance of the landscape. Likewise with blades if grass etc.

For trees there's quite a bit of variations in color already.

Not much and from height, even less.

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/19/4e/b3/194eb33cccec190afe6d20c5f1485c50.jpg)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: M7 on April 15, 2014, 01:22:30 pm
I think this is an example of  some of the odd texture colors combination of the biome. Saturated green next to reddish earth ground. In painting to harmonise things, you would want to dirty one color with a bit of the other. Like here  by adding a bit of green to the reddish brown and add a bit of orange brown to the green. 

Now how to apply that to the biome ...???i have no clue,  but i'm also confident that Angry and Cameni will find a solution.


(http://i.imgur.com/wclwVFn.jpg) (http://imgur.com/wclwVFn)
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: M7 on April 15, 2014, 02:39:57 pm
Its not even a subtle wrongness; its very obvious.

As a reality check I took several flights through X-plane 10, Microsoft flight, FSX, DCS, Aerofly, War Thunder etc, and looked carefully at ground color and tree distribution.

Nothing else I looked at showed anything like the disparity between ground and vegetation colors shown in Outerra.


Looks like i completly missed your point. Yeah trees could be lighter and ground a bit darker. I think when we get leafy trees, it should make for lighter patch of forest. I played once with the tree texture and i think i made it lighter, will check again.

Also i tried to play with ground texture few days ago but ended up with pixelate patches. Dont know how these are supposed to be saved.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: cameni on April 15, 2014, 02:46:05 pm
The problem is how to get it consistently good over the whole Earth, complicated by the fact that the vegetation density dataset isn't exactly in sync with the color data. That's what HiFlyer asked about - how come the Proland, that apparently uses the same color data, doesn't have this problem? It's because they are using just the color data, and not mixing vegetation and bare land at all. If we used just the colors, it would be the same. But then we would not have the ground mixed by fractal patterns.
The color splitter is driven by the vegetation density value, which is often inconsistent with the colors. One option (apart from getting better veg data) is to extract the "greenness" from the color data instead, or to implement a heuristics that will correct the veg data if they are off for any reason.

Quote
I think they need an artist on the team, but for now I'm just gonna drop it.
Artists can't code procedural stuff :)
Don't despair, it will be taken care of. There are better datasets out there that we will incorporate, and we said the biomes are an initial version.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: Heyworth on April 16, 2014, 08:41:34 am
[Artists can't code procedural stuff :)]

I think (for the sake of aesthetics and eye candy), that you shouldn't attempt to be too accurate...
You should allow yourselves a certain amount of 'artistic license'.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: cameni on April 16, 2014, 09:19:38 am
I meant that it's an output of a procedural equation applied on global data. Hiflyer suggested that we needed an artist, but the wild green colors in some locations are not because we are color blind and can't see the problem ourselves :D

We can tell that some colors are wrong and mostly what they should be like too. The problem is, we aren't flying around the world in OT and manually repainting it - the procedural rule that processes the available data needs to be able to handle it, while not making other parts worse at the same time. We *could* have an artist painstakingly fixing the dataset instead, but that would not be very productive, especially when the formats and datasets may and will change.
Other things, like the dark tree colors are a known issue of the existing code that will be replaced anyway, so we aren't hurrying to fix the old one at all costs.
Title: Re: Outerra biome colors video
Post by: HiFlyer on April 16, 2014, 12:26:17 pm
I meant that it's an output of a procedural equation applied on global data. Hiflyer suggested that we needed an artist, but the wild green colors in some locations are not because we are color blind and can't see the problem ourselves :D

We can tell that some colors are wrong and mostly what they should be like too. The problem is, we aren't flying around the world in OT and manually repainting it - the procedural rule that processes the available data needs to be able to handle it, while not making other parts worse at the same time. We *could* have an artist painstakingly fixing the dataset instead, but that would not be very productive, especially when the formats and datasets may and will change.
Other things, like the dark tree colors are a known issue of the existing code that will be replaced anyway, so we aren't hurrying to fix the old one at all costs.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply any colorblindness: its just that not everyone has the same tastes, and there was no way to know how you felt about the current terrain palette except to point out what I thought was off and why, and then see if anyone else agreed or if it was just me.

I mentioned an artist because its silly to expect you guys to do everything alone in any reasonable time period if somebody else can concentrate on things like textures........