Outerra forum

Anteworld - Outerra Game => Tech demo, support, updates => Topic started by: 2eyed on January 12, 2014, 03:56:32 am

Title: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: 2eyed on January 12, 2014, 03:56:32 am
Any word on when we could see real reflective water and objects? It would make a huge difference in terms of realistic appearance also with chromium kind of materials.
And in general, ambient lighting seem  to be too dark. It's not totally controllable with the sliders.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 13, 2014, 06:01:38 am
Here are a few screenshots with the latest material system there are a lot of changes and fixes. Currently we are using external textures for ambient specular reflection (Ambient BRDF) but Cameni is working on system that will allow us to use environment maps directly from Outerra which should make ambient light more natural. Before release I have to make material convertor because there are changes in material parameters that has to be adjusted for the new system.

Example of ambient BRDF (environment reflection) it takes into account the material roughness which makes it more natural.
(http://i.minus.com/jdt6L8q5NnhZn.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/idt6L8q5NnhZn.jpg)

And without the ambient BRDF...
(http://i.minus.com/jhnjnaRc2PPpl.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ihnjnaRc2PPpl.jpg)

A few enhancement to cockpit materials. Whole cockpit is using one material with three textures (diffuse, roughness, reflectance). These textures allows you to define any type of standard material including metals. In the future we will add more BRDF models.
(http://i.minus.com/jxaqpB2VkesTm.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ixaqpB2VkesTm.jpg)

A few examples of metallic materials, i'm preparing many more material examples along with in-game material editor but it will take some time...
(http://i.minus.com/j5BMtZZ50CYCC.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/i5BMtZZ50CYCC.jpg)

Example of ambient specular reflection (Ambient BRDF) left side of the head
(http://i.minus.com/jbxEf6wxrS1gXk.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibxEf6wxrS1gXk.jpg)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: necro on January 13, 2014, 07:21:14 am
Nice work angrypig. This looks awesome.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: SpaceFlight on January 13, 2014, 07:28:35 am
Incredible!  8)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: James on January 13, 2014, 07:30:19 am
Nice, but is it just me, or do the reflections look like they're of a real desert and some bushes and not the actual world?
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 13, 2014, 07:35:21 am
Nice, but is it just me, or do the reflections look like they're of a real desert and some bushes and not the actual world?

From my first post... "Currently we are using external textures for ambient specular reflection (Ambient BRDF) but Cameni is working on system that will allow us to use environment maps directly from Outerra which should make ambient light more natural."
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 13, 2014, 10:00:36 am
Sneaking this post in away from the paparazzi. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: 2eyed on January 13, 2014, 10:40:04 am
Now that's a promising approach! Great. Does it apply to water surface too?
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: M7 on January 13, 2014, 10:40:25 am
That first cessna looks amazing!
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 13, 2014, 11:03:46 am
Now that's a promising approach! Great. Does it apply to water surface too?

No, for water we want use screen-space reflections.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: PytonPago on January 13, 2014, 11:12:14 am
An in-world material editor ? ... that sounds interesting ...

 ... i recall a mod to edit textures in the old Il-2 sturmovik in its menus 3D model-showcase (that is some ancient time now). Did you think about something similar for OT too, maybe whyte possible selection, witch texture (reflectance etc.) to edit for the developers edition later on ? Or could OT handle well a mod for in-time texture changes like this ?

P.S. Is that soldier model a animation-test subject ? Seems pretty grim in its face. :D
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: 2eyed on January 13, 2014, 11:31:32 am
And by the way: who's that guy on the last screen? He looks angry... is it you angrypig? ;D
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: fsxthai on January 13, 2014, 11:50:47 am
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

When I first saw the pictures I smiled for 5 mins straight ! :DDD Really looking forward to the next update!! Great work!
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 13, 2014, 12:54:40 pm
Also pig are you using low grass mode? It looks a bit weird.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: M7 on January 13, 2014, 01:20:10 pm
How BRDF will affect FPS?

I first thought outerra would never go that far in the rendering as it could be too demanding for the hardware. I'm really happy to be wrong :)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 13, 2014, 01:25:03 pm
Also pig are you using low grass mode? It looks a bit weird.

I promise next time i'll make screenshots with full quality, btw because of a bug and there is no anti-aliasing in screenshots.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: cameni on January 13, 2014, 01:43:57 pm
Here's how it looks with the environment textures generated in OT:

(http://i.minus.com/jPq6rwm7lfLg5.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/Pq6rwm7lfLg5)
(http://i.minus.com/jbvoFeuK1nfC3C.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/bvoFeuK1nfC3C)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 13, 2014, 01:57:31 pm
Insane. That is insane.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: John514 on January 13, 2014, 02:09:43 pm
That looks nice. Its always the little touches!
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: James on January 13, 2014, 02:43:11 pm
Nice, but is it just me, or do the reflections look like they're of a real desert and some bushes and not the actual world?

From my first post... "Currently we are using external textures for ambient specular reflection (Ambient BRDF) but Cameni is working on system that will allow us to use environment maps directly from Outerra which should make ambient light more natural."

Oh, so that's what that means.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: cameni on January 13, 2014, 04:53:48 pm
(http://i.minus.com/jopEGSKcBtzGu.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/opEGSKcBtzGu)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: 2eyed on January 13, 2014, 04:55:08 pm
Are the reflections real time and do they show objects (not just terrain) as well?
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 13, 2014, 06:38:37 pm
Ballin'  8) :P


Hey look, it's Bieber's car....  ::)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: PytonPago on January 14, 2014, 02:14:32 am
Insane. That is insane.

 ... that is called skills, Zeos ... pure programing witchcraft skills.  ;D

Updates whyte all those things (material editor, reflections, animated 1.st person and clouds) will be loved indeed ... also, i see the cloud distribution looks nice - no global pattern is repeated there ?

Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 14, 2014, 04:46:28 am
(http://i.minus.com/jX632UMy1rLQN.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iX632UMy1rLQN.jpg)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 14, 2014, 04:53:26 am
Are the reflections real time and do they show objects (not just terrain) as well?

Reflections are static for now, later once with implement SSRR (screen-space reflections) most of the them will be real-time and will show objects too...
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 14, 2014, 04:53:39 am
Now you guys are just showing off.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: krz9000 on January 14, 2014, 05:37:43 am
i love to use the maxwell render since its physicaly based and therefore only has a few parameters to tweak.
opaque materials pretty much only depend on ior (fresnel and tinting of reflections),roughness (lambert/mirror) and maybe some added surface details like normalmaps or displacement. is your plan to have a "physical style" shader?
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 14, 2014, 05:47:29 am
i love to use the maxwell render since its physicaly based and therefore only has a few parameters to tweak.
opaque materials pretty much only depend on ior (fresnel and tinting of reflections),roughness (lambert/mirror) and maybe some added surface details like normalmaps or displacement. is your plan to have a "physical style" shader?

Yes, the material shader is physically based, it's using the same parameters (roughness and reflectance (ior), normal map and albedo (diffuse)).
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: foxfiles on January 14, 2014, 05:56:08 am
Reflections are static for now, later once with implement SSRR (screen-space reflections) most of the them will be real-time and will show objects too...

Very nice work ! can you notice any perf. decrease in real time, or it's insignificant?
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: krz9000 on January 14, 2014, 06:01:33 am
great!! then my only wish would be to have that in layers with weightmaps and normalized energylevels :) outerra is awsome to watch evolve...best 15 euros i ever spend. just last night i was flying over our planet with my 8 year old daughter...had a lovely time
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 14, 2014, 07:17:16 am
I believe the new material shader is faster but i have to test it first to confirm that. From my point of view I optimized a lot of things and thanks to env maps I was able to remove a few computations so it should be faster. But there are things that can improve performance (i take them as our performance reserve :) ) for example better shadow pipeline current one is not very efficient especially on Nvidia hardware...
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: ddenn on January 14, 2014, 07:39:55 am
Nice work! But what about topic title, water would look awesome with BRDF applied, isn't it? :)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: angrypig on January 14, 2014, 07:53:05 am
Current version is using the same BRDF function for water the only thing missing is the environment reflection. For water the env map is not enough we need screen-space reflections.
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: Krutan on January 14, 2014, 10:07:06 am
Looks awesome! Keep up the good work :)
Title: Re: Water surface reflections / ambient lighting?
Post by: foxfiles on January 14, 2014, 10:14:09 am
Yes I agree, more and more impressive Tech. here ! THX