Outerra forum

Anteworld - Outerra Game => Terrain & terrain data issues => Topic started by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 12:11:52 am

Title: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 12:11:52 am
I remember early Outerra very well. The all green (mostly) earth was park-like and almost soothingly idyllic. The shades of the terrain worked well together, but things have changed. Since the biomes update, the green of the grass now seems garishly unrealistic; a day-glow glare that makes it hard to believe in the realism of Outerras world. (at least for me.)

I find myself avoiding forested areas now because of the dark green, almost black in some light trees, contrasting so wildly with the bright, bright green of the grass that I keep thinking of an earth splattered with pistachio ice cream, slowly growing fungus!  ;D

Is it just me? Too sensitive?  ???

Or will there be changes, and an artist (Kevin R?) brought in with a less jarring palette?

Inquiring minds are desperate to know.

Its really beginning to cut into my flying pleasure!  :P
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on March 31, 2014, 01:41:25 am
The Blue Marble asserts there's this and that overall color. OT tries to split the colors into green and dirt so that when the fractal mixer blends them, the overall colors is back.
Now the splitter is mostly heuristics that doesn't work that well in all cases, and will be adjusted. Another problem is that BM colors are sometimes a result of severe blending, and trying to isolate the base colors from that is really problematic without fixing the colors first (mainly de-bluing it).

Anyway, lets make some screens to document the current state and to be sure what we are talking about :)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 10:07:10 am
This would be a good example and its not uncommon at all.  :-\ Those colors are of a landscape alright, but not an earthly one!  ;D

These are default settings except for atmospheric scattering.

Pistachio Ice Cream world!!

The grass at ground level comes off okay even if very lightly colored, but from the air the contrast between fluorescent green grass and deep/dark (Nearly black in some cases) trees can be very stark and unnatural.

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/screen_1396220739_zps9c8140ba.jpg)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 10:17:27 am
Srry double post.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on March 31, 2014, 10:33:08 am
Ok, I didn't know what you meant by the black trees.
Right now trees just darken the original color, and they don't even reflect how light the terrain was previously (unlike grass). Back when everything was green it didn't contrast that much, but obviously in this biome the trees would not have that color.

Still, the fact the trees are here at all is weird. This seems that the biome colors and the vegetation density channel are quite mismatched here.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 10:52:37 am
Ok, I didn't know what you meant by the black trees.
Right now trees just darken the original color, and they don't even reflect how light the terrain was previously (unlike grass). Back when everything was green it didn't contrast that much, but obviously in this biome the trees would not have that color.

Still, the fact the trees are here at all is weird. This seems that the biome colors and the vegetation density channel are quite mismatched here.

You can even see the same thing in some posted videos and pictures out there. I did a reality check to see if it was just me for a while before making this post. I've just never seen grass that color. From any height.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: DeanosBeano on March 31, 2014, 03:06:17 pm
Agreed the Algae like luminescent green must die it ruins any ariel footage / view .

Desaturation of the satelite or whatever  writes the colour is required  definitely , still its not a gamebreaker but would be one day :) .
 
 
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: 2eyed on March 31, 2014, 03:45:58 pm
This is something that bothers me too since the biomes update. I mentioned it earlier.
Overall and mainly from high above, the color map is a great step towards realism.
Can we do something about the garish colors at lower altitude? Maybe tone down brightness and saturation dynamically when going down to ground level?
I did a comparison of  grassy terrain default vs with reduced saturation/brightness.
and cameni wrote:
"Colors - yes it's using compiled Blue Marble data, the problem is that the colors there do not represent raw color values, but were manipulated to make them fit into a single color map. It's non-linear, and we need to apply a reverse transformation - this too is subject to further evolution."
What I hear now is it seem to be not that simple.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: Revolver on March 31, 2014, 03:48:35 pm
....The Grass Must Die!!
Its really beginning to cut into my flying pleasure!  :P

Let the Ganja in rest.... :P ;D ;)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2014, 04:53:42 pm
Agreed the Algae like luminescent green must die it ruins any ariel footage / view .

Desaturation of the satelite or whatever  writes the colour is required  definitely , still its not a gamebreaker but would be one day :) .

Not a game-breaker for Outerra fans, who hope it will be addressed, but I have already seen one YouTube comment that the colors are "too weird"

It can kinda drag you out of what you are doing when you are so busy reacting to the colors that it distracts from the main focus... which is flying and enjoying the view!!

Desert areas and snowy areas are quite acceptable, so this is unfortunate.

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/GreenGreenGreen_zps932f04e5.jpg)


I wonder what color data Proland used?
http://youtu.be/4Ghulpp6CPw (http://youtu.be/4Ghulpp6CPw)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on April 16, 2014, 01:50:20 pm
Can you post the location? The screenshot seems to have been stripped of GPS data.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on April 16, 2014, 02:49:36 pm
Can you post the location? The screenshot seems to have been stripped of GPS data.

Unfortunately no. It really was just a random screenshot. I will try and find it or a similar area if you want me too, though.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on April 16, 2014, 03:18:39 pm
If you have it stored on your computer, you can send me that file or upload it to minus.com (they don't strip EXIF data). All OT screenshots have GPS data attached, and one can jump into the screen by dropping it on outerra.exe.

That reminds me I should switch the cam files for saved locations to jpeg files ...
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on April 16, 2014, 05:44:48 pm
If you have it stored on your computer, you can send me that file or upload it to minus.com (they don't strip EXIF data). All OT screenshots have GPS data attached, and one can jump into the screen by dropping it on outerra.exe.

That reminds me I should switch the cam files for saved locations to jpeg files ...

Well here it is if others would like a look and also sending you a PM just in case.

(http://i.minus.com/ibLwTtilfZvlP.jpg)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on April 17, 2014, 08:14:14 am
Thanks, this is how that particular location looks like in the current internal build:

(http://i.minus.com/jzZeoMuWMyKur.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/zZeoMuWMyKur)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: 2eyed on April 17, 2014, 09:24:31 am
Fine, that looks better, although the atmo settings seem to be different too( more bluish haze in camenis shot).
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on April 17, 2014, 09:41:02 am
I had the scattering at 0.5. I think Hiflyer reduced it further down to show the base colors better ...
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on April 17, 2014, 09:55:05 am
Thanks, this is how that particular location looks like in the current internal build:

(http://i.minus.com/jzZeoMuWMyKur.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/zZeoMuWMyKur)

Correct. The atmospheric scattering tends to mute things a bit. Turning it down to get less of a "fog" effect brought out the colors as in the posted picture.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: 2eyed on April 17, 2014, 10:30:19 am
And the tree colors are less dark, aren't they?
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: cameni on April 17, 2014, 11:16:14 am
Yes, I've adjusted it to not go into such black color as before. Ultimately the tree colors will be influenced by the biome color tones, right now they are always the same.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on April 17, 2014, 02:33:26 pm
Yes, I've adjusted it to not go into such black color as before. Ultimately the tree colors will be influenced by the biome color tones, right now they are always the same.

coolness.  :)
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: 2eyed on April 17, 2014, 04:08:13 pm
How about a Easter surprise for us: freshly painted landscapes, a few puffy clouds and some nice little 3d trees? ;D
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: PytonPago on April 17, 2014, 04:23:05 pm
How about a Easter surprise for us: freshly painted landscapes, a few puffy clouds and some nice little 3d trees? ;D

 ... that will be some statues on Easter Islands ! :D
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: pico on April 27, 2014, 10:36:40 am
Other grass color for biomes?
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: pico on September 12, 2014, 12:40:23 pm
Maybe like this.
Title: Re: The Grass Must Die!!
Post by: HiFlyer on September 12, 2014, 01:22:13 pm
Maybe like this.

Better. Lets see what the developers have in mind.

The slightly strange (a bit washed out) colors are really the only thing that keeps me from sinking right into the "reality" of Outerra.

There's something that from the air just seems to say "Somethings off with this picture"

But I'm hoping its all part of some overall plan.

The below is probably "too green" but there must be some middle ground......

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dOI-bPYaxM#t=17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dOI-bPYaxM#t=17)