Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: cameni on May 10, 2014, 06:03:59 am

Title: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: cameni on May 10, 2014, 06:03:59 am
We are going to update the road generator and editor in a short while, and I'd like to get some feedback and collect the requirements for both the base road system and the editor.

Some of the planned extensions:

Feel free to list and discuss whatever you think the road system needs to be able to produce. Some things like the road posts, guardrails etc will be handled by a different system, but the definition for them will be likely included in the road data and thus in the editor.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on May 10, 2014, 09:10:51 am
Bridges, if not now then eventually, and some way to do overpasses, unless all roads are intended to be flat ribbons.

Road markings tend to become "smeared" relatively close to the camera, which is not so good on runways. Any way to push things out a bit?
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Jagerbomber on May 10, 2014, 09:31:52 am
Awesome!

How hard would it be to have it naturally make merging lanes on itself, like would you have to have a separate segment designated to the merge (a merge tag/setting?) with the various merging options, or could it kind of do it on its own by a set # of lanes? and then the user would have to adjust the width of the segments to have it look right, so that the lanes aren't too small, and the lanes would adjust to the set road width.  But then that would be an issue with it not knowing which side of the road has more lanes...  :-\ hmm

But I also know there tends to be an issue that happens with lines on curves where they tend to distort and somewhat disappear in parts, and that might happen here too.  And yeah, the AF (I think it is) on roads at a distance needs work.  Or LOD idk.

Oh yeah... and then there's the issue with needing (or wanting...) turn direction markings on lanes at intersections...  Is it possible at all to have settings, like marking settings, like a drop-down for each separate lane (varying by the number of lanes), so there isn't like an insane amount of intersection choices in one list, or not?  If this is possible, you could choose the line markings on each side of each lane as well (like when you need to state where the center line is, like in the problem mentioned above).

I mean... I guess technically you could kind of do this by having a ton of separate roads next to eachother for each lane... but I'd think we'd want to avoid that. ?
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: wayne57 on May 10, 2014, 10:55:17 am
intersections are a must and right and left cut offs

thanks

wayne57
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: cameni on May 10, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Markings are likely going to be rendered separately (or in addition to a new algorithmic baked-in AF), because the sharp contrast and tiled terrain rendering limits AF and makes the terrain blurred at an angle. In any case only the common marking styles will be included with the road data, and there will be a vector drawing overlay for painting stuff on the terrain.

Merging and intersection creating is a task for the editor; in a cumbersome way it can be achieved manually (although the current system has some precision limitations). We plan to automatically create a connection or intersection as soon as you connect road to another road's node. Merging lanes will probably require some more hints.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Steve.Wilson on May 10, 2014, 02:23:43 pm
Just thinking....multiple lanes in each direction would be necessary for highways, along with a dividing median that may or may not have a consistent width.

Are railroads part of this system?
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Jagerbomber on May 10, 2014, 03:42:43 pm
I'm thinking, most of the time, it would be better to have each side of the highway separate.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: cameni on May 10, 2014, 03:58:31 pm
Are railroads part of this system?
Only in part.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Section_through_railway_track_and_foundation.png)

Track foundation is, but the rails and sleepers are generated geometry, like road posts or poles.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: ZeosPantera on May 10, 2014, 04:00:24 pm
Automated placement of a side object every X meters (lamp posts, parking meters) or auto placement of turn signs on sharp enough curves.

(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1626/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1626R-14608.jpg)

Also how about center deviders?

(http://mtdemocrat.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2012/04/100_1406e-1024x768.jpg)  (http://www.photo-dictionary.com/photofiles/list/4592/6074highway.jpg)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: aWac9 on May 10, 2014, 05:08:17 pm
our problems are created by civilization.

http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E (http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E)

problem solved
"roundabout"   https://www.flickr.com/photos/awac9/13972599368/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/awac9/13972599368/)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on May 10, 2014, 05:12:23 pm
our problems are created by civilization.

http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E (http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E)

Humans in Ant Mode.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Jagerbomber on May 10, 2014, 09:36:04 pm
Road sign (or any sign) text needs to be easily editable, but that's a different matter.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Foxiol on May 11, 2014, 06:14:11 am
It would be cool if we can make "instant tunnels" while placing the regular roads. One tool similar to what we have but instead of making the terrain flat make other to go through the terrain like a secondary option.

In Cryengine for example you need a separated tool to first make holes in the terrain and then place or fill the "void" with whatever you want to put in it to make the caves or tunnels (works the same way).

But since Outerra is massive, it can be great to have something that makes the tunnel maybe by setting the height, then with some predefined parameters (the width and the diameter in meters, and if it can be square/rectangular just set some predefined measures).

I know nothing about technical stuff/words/difficulties to do that...I just talk as someone who likes to do stuff with terrain.

Also as others said, bridges can be added too but those can be made by assets, just make a hole in the ground with the right tool and then put the bridge there. If there is a river you just need the asset, then put the road over it and you have the bridge. In that case we need collisions for static objects. Then we can import bridges. ;)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: PytonPago on May 12, 2014, 04:53:34 pm
A possability for inteligent elevated  road structure ? ... you know, when an elevated road is there, it will have some of the base-profiled bridge forms, but when a road is underneath it, it would re-set the bridge segments eqi-distant to the needed placement or add a side-suported structure (for spiral-roads with possible side-roads for multiple-floor stuff).

http://www.hdlandscapewallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nanpu-Bridge-and-Spiral-Road-Shanghai-China.jpg (http://www.hdlandscapewallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nanpu-Bridge-and-Spiral-Road-Shanghai-China.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--LxHnrdSeEk/UnvlP5PYKKI/AAAAAAAAEGc/BZIdImv6vgo/s1600/DSC08960.JPG)

(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/parking-garage-exit-ramp-modern-architecture-spiral-32935315.jpg)

And some bridges :
(http://[url=https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/White%20Bridge%20Road_0.jpg]https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/White%20Bridge%20Road_0.jpg[/url])

(https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/I40%20White%20Bridge.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GRfNAAgcqc8/TaPW8BlLqqI/AAAAAAAAEEU/Ar9285gwNR8/s1600/Bluestone+Bridge+Rd-21.JPG)

(http://matcor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/forth-road-bridge-south-queensferry-sco238.jpg)

(http://www.edinburgh-scotland.net/images/ForthBridge11L.jpg)

... where would be 3 base-types: -- highway style (just central or side-based pillars), cable-suported (golden gate), structure suported(from underneath) -- if possible, that there could be a way to define the base-look of them trough some kind of pillar-3d-model, so the variations and design could be modifyed by all. What the characteristics of the base-model would be is a question based on the way the road-tool will work ...
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: John514 on May 25, 2014, 02:52:39 pm
Procedural bridges, auto-placement of streetlights, tunnels.

One thing that could be implemented right now:
When a road crosses another one, a spline point shpuld be made on the xroad, that has the same elevation as the first road. This way the crossing will be level.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on August 28, 2014, 04:36:17 pm
Procedural bridges, auto-placement of streetlights, tunnels.

One thing that could be implemented right now:
When a road crosses another one, a spline point shpuld be made on the xroad, that has the same elevation as the first road. This way the crossing will be level.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on August 29, 2014, 04:24:13 am
I think some improvements can be done with the way player have control on the transitional area parameter. I have not really a clear idea of how the engine handle this element so I'm gonna try to explain my suggestion based on how the engine currently allow us to modify roads parameters.
Transitional tool should be splited in 3 different parameters:

There is also an issue with last segments not blending really well with terrain. If there is a good solution to hide this, it would be great  :)

(http://i.imgur.com/MQsrHkl.jpg)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: cameni on August 29, 2014, 07:18:03 am
There is also an issue with last segments not blending really well with terrain. If there is a good solution to hide this, it would be great  :)
Lead-out segment is for that, the node before the last should be set to lead-out. This will be automatic in the reworked version.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on August 29, 2014, 12:14:47 pm
There is also an issue with last segments not blending really well with terrain. If there is a good solution to hide this, it would be great  :)
Lead-out segment is for that, the node before the last should be set to lead-out. This will be automatic in the reworked version.

Well, I never realised that  :) Thanks, it will be usefull !
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on September 04, 2014, 05:25:47 pm
After toying with the road tool, I think really powerful options would be a display of compass heading, and some prebuilt sections you could just click on to create, such as adjustable curves, 90 degree angles, intersections etc and automatic joining.

Should it ever become possible to make overpasses/highways, the current height circle would be excellent, with some sort of drop-down to enter the desired height above ground of individual nodes.

Where roads join, it should be possible to have customization's like straight "T" joins, flared joins, etc.

Maybe a dial where you could hand-rotate sections of road to preview before final placement. The current road Outline tool would do fine for that.

Well!!

I think I'll stop there, for now, before I write a book!!  :o ;D
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Varldsligist on September 05, 2014, 07:44:27 am
After toying with the road tool, I think really powerful options would be a display of compass heading, and some prebuilt sections you could just click on to create, such as adjustable curves, 90 degree angles, intersections etc and automatic joining.

Should it ever become possible to make overpasses/highways, the current height circle would be excellent, with some sort of drop-down to enter the desired height above ground of individual nodes.

Where roads join, it should be possible to have customization's like straight "T" joins, flared joins, etc.

Maybe a dial where you could hand-rotate sections of road to preview before final placement. The current road Outline tool would do fine for that.

Well!!

I think I'll stop there, for now, before I write a book!!  :o ;D
This! I seriously struggled with road placement before eventually getting it to work with poor result. A drag and drop system would do wonders. Right mb - hold - [shows you transparent road] and drop right mb to place road. And if you happen to have two roads crossing eachothers paths they would automatically merge. I basically want the road-building system from Sim City (half serious about this).


Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on September 05, 2014, 08:54:50 am
After toying with the road tool, I think really powerful options would be a display of compass heading, and some prebuilt sections you could just click on to create, such as adjustable curves, 90 degree angles, intersections etc and automatic joining.

Should it ever become possible to make overpasses/highways, the current height circle would be excellent, with some sort of drop-down to enter the desired height above ground of individual nodes.

Where roads join, it should be possible to have customization's like straight "T" joins, flared joins, etc.

Maybe a dial where you could hand-rotate sections of road to preview before final placement. The current road Outline tool would do fine for that.

Well!!

I think I'll stop there, for now, before I write a book!!  :o ;D
This! I seriously struggled with road placement before eventually getting it to work with poor result. A drag and drop system would do wonders. Right mb - hold - [shows you transparent road] and drop right mb to place road. And if you happen to have two roads crossing eachothers paths they would automatically merge. I basically want the road-building system from Sim City (half serious about this).

Maybe I haven't really understood your problem, but you can do exactly that with ctrl (hold)+left click. Each click add a new segment. A drag and drop system of road sections will make the tool way more efficient, I think.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on September 05, 2014, 01:52:53 pm
And a adjustable really wide area flattening tool.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on September 19, 2014, 09:05:34 am
A way to "spread" a node value to all the other nodes of a road would be cool too. For example, if you realize that your road width is too large, change the value for one node, use a "chain" button (like that one (http://www.shapes4free.com/wp-content/uploads/preview/photoshop-shapes/2011/link-chain-photoshop-shapes-icons-lg.jpg)) to set the same value for each node of the road. The possibility to do it for each different property would be awesome :)

Apparently nobody mentioned it, but a "revert to previous state" option would be interesting too, in case of mistake  ::)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Haydz192 on October 11, 2014, 09:24:43 pm
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like creating hairpin turns on a mountainside are REALLY steep on the actual curve. For example, if I want to make a sequence of hairpins to go up a mountain, when I generate the road, it looks fine from the air, but then when I go to drive it, the curves are a hell of a lot more vertical than I expected. It might just be me, I'm not the greatest at road generation yet, still got to learn a bunch of things about the road editor.
Cheers for your time.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on October 12, 2014, 06:02:35 am
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like creating hairpin turns on a mountainside are REALLY steep on the actual curve. For example, if I want to make a sequence of hairpins to go up a mountain, when I generate the road, it looks fine from the air, but then when I go to drive it, the curves are a hell of a lot more vertical than I expected. It might just be me, I'm not the greatest at road generation yet, still got to learn a bunch of things about the road editor.
Cheers for your time.

Hairpin turns are difficult to handle in the current version of the road system and can generate strange bugs on the road (small spikes, weird blend between asphalt and dirt). The best solution is generaly to move a bit soem waypoints to make the turn a bit more larger and modify the transitional area of each node to get a good result. The closer you are from a hard turn, the more you want to reduce it, to avoid weird terrain blending between two road waypoints almost parallel from each other.

You can deal with road verticality by adjusting the elevation of each node. The slider limits you in a +/- 2m range, but each time you update the road ("make") it goes back to 0 so you can adjust each node again until you get a smoother climb.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Haydz192 on October 13, 2014, 01:00:11 am
Hairpin turns are difficult to handle in the current version of the road system and can generate strange bugs on the road (small spikes, weird blend between asphalt and dirt). The best solution is generaly to move a bit soem waypoints to make the turn a bit more larger and modify the transitional area of each node to get a good result. The closer you are from a hard turn, the more you want to reduce it, to avoid weird terrain blending between two road waypoints almost parallel from each other.

You can deal with road verticality by adjusting the elevation of each node. The slider limits you in a +/- 2m range, but each time you update the road ("make") it goes back to 0 so you can adjust each node again until you get a smoother climb.
Ah, okay! Thanks so much for this! :D
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: josem75 on October 24, 2014, 07:41:15 am
Appart from the idea of make it the most automatic as posible, preparing it for the posibility of make all the roads of a region or country or even world from osm data. And it would be very dificult to solve things one by one, so maybe you need to develop a road tool with autosolve for certain problems as bad angles, no natural camber, etc. So all the roads generated by data are well done.
SO appart that i have one idea. The ARRAY tool.

This array tool would be useful for example for lights. You can make 2 kind of lights in archive, one for intercity roads (tipical big lights for big roads), and another for city roads (so the tipical inside city lights).
The array can control the distance from the road line, the distance between lights, and of course, have a default value for all until you touch it. So if you make all the region roads all the lights have same distances.
Even maybe its posible to automatic put the kind of light of city, or intercity. I dont know if osm data give information about if the road is runing inside the city or outside, or maybe u need another algorighm with city information.

Would be great being all automatic, that all the inside roads can have those lights (or almost all, maybe can add a tool for put a percentage, 100%, 80% so aleatory some parts of the roads city dont have any light. (and after you can manually retouch).
Also automatic intercity lights but not in all the road, just near some city by 5KM or so. because its not normal that ALL the intercity roads has lights.. But maybe yes when you are coming in a city, or coming out, or even crossing the city around by a big road.

This tool maybe can add also a posibility of change the model light base. So you can put a diferent model in certains road you select.
A better system than actually for select roads would be necesary also.

This array also can add more things than lights. For example the signals for snow roads. Those can be tuned on over 2000 Meters altitude or so by default and anybody can retouch the value.
And more things than somebody can think. For example telephone Poles. Maybe not in all but this one you can add manually to some roads you want. So people can make roads similar to the real ones with those tools.
If data can determine if its a intercity little road (not big) or a rural area, can also have a percentage to cover roads with those telephone poles, and then posibility to add manually zones.

Also for example trees in certain urbanization area, etc.  This array tool can be almost unlimited. Connecting the distances data and archive data with the 3d object to array, and a system where nothing touch with another object.

This would be completed when your lights system is finished for the engine. So those lights can properly be turned On at nights during the game.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: bugsblake on March 06, 2015, 04:45:53 am
any update on this yet? was started 10 months ago now and now we have light, the lamp posts would be great along side of the road! :) so any ETA? keep up the good work
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: ZeosPantera on March 06, 2015, 08:44:33 am
Well now that dynamic lights are indeed a thing I don't see this being impossible.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: josem75 on March 06, 2015, 11:55:56 am
Well now that dynamic lights are indeed a thing I don't see this being impossible.

We need lithgs also in objects (not only vehicles), but maybe the road lights programed from inside can be a good example for the first light objects in outerra.

The Array tool can be used also in a lot of things. For example, the phone poles. Or electricity towers. Or even the snow towers for chaircable in ski stations. I am trying to do one ski station with those towers. But the cables between towers are a big problem. And we would have the same problem with cables between phone poles or electricity. 

So how can fix that?
This array tool can be completed with a system, where between one object and another, we have a cable (defining thickness, colour  or eventually they can put some texture, angle, etc).
This can be solved by naming objects. For example, if we want make the cables for electricity towers (usually have 3), we can name 3 objects in those electricity towers (in the right position), which will contain the begining of those cables. They will be the points where those cables will be crossing among all the array towers.
The same with chaircable ski towers. Phone poles towers, etc.

Adicionally. We can transport something among those cables. Based again in a name, we can choose a object (in the chaircable in ski station) who will be travelling among all the cable trayectory, and defining a speed, etc (even eventually degree of how the chair will rotate in the fluctuation).
So we have all the system for make complex ski stations, roads with phone poles, lights, trees, and big electricity towers in all the field (maybe there are some map containing the position, or even can be used as osm data.

Also those cables can be affected by the wind in the future.

If the array have more than one cable. Names can be cross1-01 (travell 1-01) , cross2-01 (travell 2-01), etc, etc..
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: josem75 on March 06, 2015, 12:25:13 pm
(http://i58.tinypic.com/vypbmq.jpg)

Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: HiFlyer on January 13, 2016, 06:58:21 pm
Nice stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKEWpof6xho
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Acetone on January 14, 2016, 02:48:33 am
Had a good time with it, the game is really nice. The building/road system is mostly made possible by the really simple polygon terrain. It's really smart, because they don't really use a fixed grid system for the roads (like old city buildings) but rather a dynamic one, and as a result it's easier to create some nice things.

I hope their elevated road system will be a good inspiration for OT :)
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: patmarrnc on January 19, 2018, 05:50:58 pm
After playing with road builder for a while, the biggest thing I'd like to see is the ability to slide spline points around (left, right, forward, backward.)  Interesting that the river editor will let us adjust one side of the river at a time, but road builder just lets us change the left and right borders... not the road itself.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 19, 2018, 08:00:16 pm
m key.  (there might be others).  You have to re-generate it though.  It's not live.
Title: Re: Road editor enhancements feedback thread
Post by: patmarrnc on January 19, 2018, 11:43:16 pm
m key.  (there might be others).  You have to re-generate it though.  It's not live.

AWESOME! You just made my day! I had completely misunderstood what "move along the terrain" meant.  (I thought it was used to advance my point of view to the next marker, so I never tried it for its actual purpose)

(This will make life easier... thanks for taking time to reply)