Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Development screen shots and videos => Topic started by: M7 on July 18, 2014, 10:00:15 am

Title: Ambient occlusion
Post by: M7 on July 18, 2014, 10:00:15 am

Saw this post on outerra facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/outerra/photos/pcb.779113528806263/779112512139698/?type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/outerra/photos/pcb.779113528806263/779112512139698/?type=1&theater)

Is this just and update texture of the cessna or is it a new automatic feature as all object would get ambient occlusion by default?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Levi on July 18, 2014, 10:15:34 am
I guess it's real time ambient occlusion if i'm not wrong :)
Btw, that's great news!
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: M7 on July 18, 2014, 10:53:12 am
Real time ambient occlusion would be amazing. It means that cloudy weather would look especially good and that i would not have to UV unwrap the whole Bismark to get some nice details in the shade  :)
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on July 18, 2014, 11:02:25 am
Nice, it looks like a more basic AO implementation though.
Would be great to have it on terrain/ rocks.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: cameni on July 18, 2014, 04:47:53 pm
It's real-time, a faster one. There are actually several different versions of AO algorithms we tested, each with its advantages and weaknesses. A stronger AO effect has some issues on the transition of grass to the terrain, and as a post-process it's problematic to resolve by itself.

AO will be probably made up from several separate algorithms in the end. Terrain will use a hierarchic AO computed from the generated geometry. Another algo for AO between terrain (including trees, which are currently producing fake AO on terrain). Real-time AO will go atop of it, acting on smaller scale details, mostly for objects and grass and such.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: M7 on July 18, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
Looking forward to see some terrain pics though i think it should make for  greater visual improvement on vehicles (shady side).
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: John514 on July 20, 2014, 05:14:11 pm
Speaking of terrain, when will terrain shadows be added?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on July 21, 2014, 11:56:09 am
How about a little sneak peek for us alpha customers, regarding AO and terrain self shadowing? An experimental toggle option? ;D
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: cameni on July 21, 2014, 01:20:28 pm
Terrain self shadowing is dependent on reworking the shadowing system. There are still many issues to resolve before it's usable for anything but selected static shots. Things like finding the balance or combination of algorithms that produce detailed FPS shadows up close, while also working in 50km+ range.

Now the selected shots :)

(http://i.minus.com/jpW5JagJhgLIk.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ipW5JagJhgLIk.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/jbr5MdIi1YoTZh.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibr5MdIi1YoTZh.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/jLFSE89DOL5k1.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iLFSE89DOL5k1.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/jbeDFCSUyHn42F.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibeDFCSUyHn42F.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/jbeiPFF4JkfT6Q.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibeiPFF4JkfT6Q.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/jbJSvYWrDygsa.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibJSvYWrDygsa.jpg)
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: PytonPago on July 21, 2014, 02:13:13 pm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBgmLwUBNo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBgmLwUBNo)

 .... must have !
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 21, 2014, 04:24:55 pm
Yes. Terrain shadowing is a big chunk of what seems missing from the engine. I don't think anybody notices it unless you tell them it isn't there but somewhere inside they feel it is... off.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: cameni on July 23, 2014, 12:35:59 pm
Also tree shadows samples:

(http://i.minus.com/jEfWLoMLpsYKf.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iEfWLoMLpsYKf.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/jlCKob8M6TiK4.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ilCKob8M6TiK4.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/jweEqh9FWC5sz.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iweEqh9FWC5sz.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/jrEAqOW1WU7nu.jpg) (http://minus.com/i/rEAqOW1WU7nu)

Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Levi on July 23, 2014, 01:07:04 pm
OMG, it looks so beautiful!
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Jagerbomber on July 23, 2014, 01:15:56 pm
Now that is awesome...

Um.... Does billboard rotation effect the shadow?  :o
That'd be odd-looking.

I'm assuming it casts them like they're perpendicular to the sun.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on July 23, 2014, 01:16:51 pm
Oh yes, that's what we need. Gives nice touches to the scene. Far better than the dark blobs we have today.
How distant can you render these?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: M7 on July 23, 2014, 01:27:39 pm
Looks really nice! but there's no ambient occlusion in these pics right? I'm really curious to see a pics with AO on terrain with no sun light (only sky light) if it's possible.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2014, 02:00:35 pm
FFFFFFFFFFFF.. Everything you add/preview now makes obvious how much is missing and it sucks. RELEASE!!
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: PytonPago on July 23, 2014, 02:25:08 pm
I need a Tupolev in that second bunch ... whyte all the fancy shadows all around it !  :)
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: cameni on July 23, 2014, 03:15:29 pm
Quote from: Jagerbomber on July 23, 2014, 01:15:56 pm
Um.... Does billboard rotation effect the shadow?  :o
That'd be odd-looking.

I'm assuming it casts them like they're perpendicular to the sun.
Yes, when rendering to shadow map, billboards face the sun, shadows do not turn.

Quote from: 2eyed on July 23, 2014, 01:16:51 pm
Oh yes, that's what we need. Gives nice touches to the scene. Far better than the dark blobs we have today.
How distant can you render these?
Right now they are rendered as far as the terrain shadows are, 20km in these shots.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: cameni on July 23, 2014, 03:18:59 pm
Quote from: M7 on July 23, 2014, 01:27:39 pm
Looks really nice! but there's no ambient occlusion in these pics right? I'm really curious to see a pics with AO on terrain with no sun light (only sky light) if it's possible.
SSAO effect is subtle, you would see it on an untextured scene but textures obscure it. It's better visible on objects and on the mercenary. Terrain and trees need a different algorithm.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: John514 on July 23, 2014, 05:39:53 pm
The thing that has always bothered me is that all real-time ambient occlusion apps just create a dark overlay around the edges of objects.
That looks ok-ish but it does not do what baked AO does, that is making soft shadows on nearby objects, like here: http://www.peterkutz.com/computergraphics/images/path_tracer/AmbientOcclusionMuscleCar.png (http://www.peterkutz.com/computergraphics/images/path_tracer/AmbientOcclusionMuscleCar.png)

The soft shadow under the car is created by the lack of light under the car. Real time AO does not do that.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Tfirma on July 24, 2014, 04:19:36 am
Realtime AO always looks overdone whenever someone tries it, guess there's no good solution yet. 
Always makes me think of cartoon racoons.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/28/28a023ae8c12becb0a8fbb7fb89d9a94c151ed42fcdb773131fd9c5df08eb035.jpg)
(and internal edges at window rim corner gets very marked out).

 
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on July 24, 2014, 09:25:34 am
 AFAIK visual Quality from AO depends on implementation (hbao is better than standard ao) and also 3d model fidelity( more polys give better looks). Cheap versions can look dirty and cartoonish though.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: John514 on July 24, 2014, 01:09:27 pm
Quote from: 2eyed on July 24, 2014, 09:25:34 am
AFAIK visual Quality from AO depends on implementation (hbao is better than standard ao) and also 3d model fidelity( more polys give better looks). Cheap versions can look dirty and cartoonish though.

I`ve seen BF`s HBAO and Watch Dog`s HBAO+.
They are quite nice. I`ve also heard of HDAO but I don`t know how that works! :P

Edit: After looking around for a little while, HBAO+ looks very nice! Twice the resolution of HBAO, half as framerate demanding as HBAO and much more acurate.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Krutan on August 01, 2014, 09:08:40 am
Holy macaroni, that looks awesome! :D Any HBAO+ support?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 06:00:58 am
A few new screenshots with the latest AO implementation. It's almost ready for release, probably next week.

(http://i.minus.com/ixbdXqlzCpul6.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ixbdXqlzCpul6.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/ifRGtzYCusuNd.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ifRGtzYCusuNd.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/ikYlk7dr0NH5H.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ikYlk7dr0NH5H.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/ibfbOojPnQDQF0.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibfbOojPnQDQF0.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/iwcBLPkSeiSkH.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iwcBLPkSeiSkH.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/isSajYTnE9Nwm.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/isSajYTnE9Nwm.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/ibzsnUBvnb20hX.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibzsnUBvnb20hX.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/ibxzS9Ra0plNBE.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibxzS9Ra0plNBE.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/iWk4ZBqEaJdm.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iWk4ZBqEaJdm.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/iNFT3mUH4HFux.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iNFT3mUH4HFux.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/iCXpp483RA8qW.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iCXpp483RA8qW.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/ibbh6EZHBs3yKP.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibbh6EZHBs3yKP.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/iARIuozaz68KB.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iARIuozaz68KB.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/iAFUi2rU7XqA0.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iAFUi2rU7XqA0.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/ibuK75Nesr9IlE.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibuK75Nesr9IlE.jpg)(http://i.minus.com/iqCZMoegDvDB9.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/iqCZMoegDvDB9.jpg)
(http://i.minus.com/ibmprVfaz1xTXV.jpg) (http://i.minus.com/ibmprVfaz1xTXV.jpg)


Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Levi on August 12, 2014, 06:05:12 am
Quote from: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 06:00:58 am
A few new screenshots with the latest AO implementation. It's almost ready for release, probably next week.
OMG! that looks awesome!
Nice to see the AO on the Basler as well ;D
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: PytonPago on August 12, 2014, 07:12:43 am
Magnificent !
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Jonathan on August 12, 2014, 08:08:02 am
I don't get it..What exactly am I suppose to be looking for or at? Nothing looks changed to me.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Acetone on August 12, 2014, 08:14:05 am
Quote from: Jonathan on August 12, 2014, 08:08:02 am
I don't get it..What exactly am I suppose to be looking for or at? Nothing looks changed to me.

It's only visible if you open pictures in fullscreen.

Example :
No AO: http://i2.minus.com/iCXpp483RA8qW.jpg (http://i2.minus.com/iCXpp483RA8qW.jpg)

AO: http://i1.minus.com/ibbh6EZHBs3yKP.jpg (http://i1.minus.com/ibbh6EZHBs3yKP.jpg)
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Jonathan on August 12, 2014, 08:20:07 am
I see it now! Thx!
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 12, 2014, 09:21:34 am
Are we going to get to use that AO white view? It looks awesome.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 09:24:01 am
maybe through console...
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on August 12, 2014, 10:25:06 am
Great. It's a nice and very welcome enhancement to the visuals, but I'm a bit afraid ambient lit sides of objects will be even darker with AO. Ambient lighting in general seem to be too dark. Maybe  IBL and GI could help, I think.
Is your AO supressed by direct sun light? How's the performance cost?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 10:33:41 am
AO is attenuating ambient light and reflections only and that is why it's invisible on direct sun light. The performance cost depends on your GPU the implementation is not final but I think I will be able hold it under 2.5ms on my NVIDIA 750 TI for high quality version in 1920x1080.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: M7 on August 12, 2014, 10:47:08 am
Quote from: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 10:33:41 am
AO is attenuating ambient light and reflections only and that is why it's invisible on direct sun light. The performance cost depends on your GPU the implementation is not final but I think I will be able hold it under 2.5ms on my NVIDIA 750 TI for high quality version.

That's fantastic! i was wondering too if AO would show in direct sunlight. If it doesnt, then it's really realistic.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on August 12, 2014, 12:13:18 pm
I noticed further, that grass is affected by AO. So is the terrain as well?
In the shots you posted, I might have seen it on terrain bumps.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 12:17:10 pm
Yes terrain is affected by AO too.
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: 2eyed on August 12, 2014, 12:42:10 pm
Quote from: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 12:17:10 pm
Yes terrain is affected by AO too.
That's awsome. Is it noticeable on, let's say, distant rocks?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: PytonPago on August 12, 2014, 02:28:31 pm
Quote from: angrypig on August 12, 2014, 12:17:10 pm
Yes terrain is affected by AO too.

 ... the grass looks great this way. Is it a big FPS kill at the grass level ? ( would be it reasonable to have a possibility to get the grass excluded from it for performance reasons, whyle keeping it on terrain and objects ? )
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Ronaldoz1988 on August 12, 2014, 04:34:09 pm
light passes through objects so far?
Title: Re: Ambient occlusion
Post by: Revolver on August 12, 2014, 10:05:34 pm
Thanks Angrypig!I wait quite impatiently for it, but mostly when the clouds will seem. :)