Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: cameni on October 03, 2009, 07:55:32 am

Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on October 03, 2009, 07:55:32 am
Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum.

Outerra engine can be used to render planets seamlessly from space to ground, using arbitrary resolution elevation and land class data further refined by fractal algorithms to achieve detailed resolution. Currently we are concentrating on Earth, but Mars and Moon are also planned, and also algorithms and tools specifically tailored to artificial or completely procedural planets.

While it's still early tech, we are considering making a game with it to demonstrate its capabilities and also to make it more robust and feature rich in the process. For this I'd like to invite you to submit your ideas - what kind of game would you like to see made with the engine; what features should the game and engine have etc.
Any related ideas are welcome!

Brano
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Sam 36 on October 07, 2009, 03:40:48 pm
Hello!

First, you are doing a remarkable job with this engine guys.  Keep up the good work!

As to suggestions, I think a flight simulator is in order -- even if it's a simple one.  You already have JSBSim (sorta... right?).
     Features:
          Good lighting (especially at night).
          Nice performance on a machine such as mine: Celeron E1200 @1.6GHz, 8800GS 384MB, and 2GB DDR 667.
          Great terrain (I think you have that covered :rolleyes:)
          At least one high-detail airport, to demonstrate how well the game engine runs with high-res models.

I think that's enough for now -- hope it isn't to much to ask.

Best regards, Patrick (a.k.a. Sam 36) :cool:
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on October 08, 2009, 03:24:49 am
Patrick,

Thanks for the reply!
We are currently working on Cessna 172SP cockpit rendering and connecting the controls to JSBSim engine, when everything comes out right that would be a very simple simulator already :)
Of course, there is much work outside of the simulator part, too.

As for your setup - currently the rendering consumes more GPU memory so we need to make more optimizations and to implement a mechanism to reduce the footprint at the expense of quality or rendering distance.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Dusho on October 10, 2009, 07:43:35 am
Hi !
What kind of type of game are planning on working on - just simple single player game or something purely multi-player. Can imagine procedural planets to be used in massive online game - but that's lot of work.
As a simple 'fun' demonstration of outerra engine I would make a mothership with ability to travel to different planets carrying some land vehicle you can drop on the planet - and just drive some hills. With this you can even try to make planets that really feel different - red dusty planet with lots of sand versus green grassy planet with clear sky. You would need to integrate some simple physics, though.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on October 11, 2009, 07:24:26 am
Hi Dusho,

While we'd like to make a massive online game eventually (the environment really begs for it), yes it's quite a lot of work too. So iteratively, we want to make a single player game first, for the purpose of demonstrating the engine. You'll be able to fly several machines in there, like a plane, a hovercraft and also some sci-fi flying machine, if the physics feels right. It will be also possible to drive several ground vehicles too. We are already incorporating vehicle physics into the engine.

The physics for conventional vehicles will be realistic, also with realistic controls and cockpit for the plane, while the exotic vehicles will provide more thrill.

There will be free ride mode but also a story to follow and quests tailored to show the capabilities. We are already having fun driving in a hovercraft-like mode at 360km/h (225mph) through sparse forests trying not to hit a tree :O

For now we are concentrating on Earth; Moon and Mars may come too but no artificial planets for now - that would require developing and tuning another set of algorithms that would take place of real elevation data, so that the planets look right.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: stodge on October 26, 2009, 08:16:56 pm
This is amazing stuff! I can envision some cool stuff in the world of air traffic management. :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Mriddell on February 06, 2010, 06:15:53 am
hi.
amazing work. this gives me hope
do you have a sdk kit perchance ? may sound odd unless you know it but i play on SL in a gorean theme and im looking at all the differant engines in order to amke a MMO bassed on Gor.
the kool thing is all the work that would need to be figured out is already inplace ( the socal things ) and to give you some example of gor, its a series of books ( 27 ) that millions of people love. is there any way i can perhaps talk to somebody here about mabby seeing if somehting like this is possable  with this engine ? its Exactly whats needed for the ideas i/we have.
anyways. be well
Mike
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on February 06, 2010, 07:16:28 am
I haven't read the novels, but thanks for the tip as I was just looking for something to read :)
Anyway, there's no sdk kit nor anything such, the engine is not yet ready. But if you are asking if it will be able to handle a custom, artificial planet then the answer is yes - if you provide the rough height and land type maps it will be able to use these, further refining it down to the detailed level.

Of course, while the engine will allow you to make spacious detailed terrains on a planet, it will not currently help you in other aspects of making a MMO, which aren't trivial. But I'm not even sure if the attributes of this engine (high visibility and available space) are all that important in such a game, given its presumably huge social element. But I may be mistaken. Feel free to discuss it here or write an email to the contact.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Dusho on February 15, 2010, 05:30:39 am
Hi again
still keeping my eye on the project and love the work you've done so far. Cesna and Tatra videos look amazing.
Is there some 'public' test version people can try? (or will there be in the future).
So what is the plan next? I would love to see it as library (SDK) where people can use their own data and algorithms for object placements. Build a community of 'world designers', to iron out the bugs, improve usage, customization.
And provide paid version of library (or projects) for people using it commercially.
Keep up the good work.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on February 15, 2010, 04:23:29 pm
There's no public version yet. The interest coming from the flight sim community had also put us under a higher pressure with regards to the quality of the first demo version, so that became a retarding factor as well :/

What's next. We became indie developers this year as we decided to fully focus on the development. We are going to make a game that will be able to showcase the engine, and it should help the engine to become more complete and robust as well in the process. So we are currently focusing on this, but there should be some demo stuff stemming from this too, or at least it should make a way for something more ambitious :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: SRStever on April 11, 2010, 10:51:01 pm
Having been a flight sim enthusiast for more than 25 years I'm most interested in the flight simulation aspects of your engine. The level of detail seen in your videos is really amazing and the potential for creating a believable environment for just about any type of vehicle is certainly there.

Here are a couple of ideas that could really place Outerra on the map for literally thousands of sim fans.
1. Provide the means (i.e. tools, tutorials, etc.)  to allow enthusiast to add to the basic platform. I'm sure you're aware of the thousands of addons provided by the flight sim community (both Microsoft and X-Plane).
2. From the pics I've seen it appears that a realistic road system could be implemented, which of course opens up hundreds of potential ideas to include, off roading (Pikes Peak comes to mind), Cannon Ball Runs, etc. etc.
3. If a road system can be implemented, why not a railroad system?
4. So far I haven't seen how water will be implemented in Outerra, but if some of the physics used to create the rolling shadows under the cessna can also be used to create rolling water, imagine white water rafting down canyons, especially down the Colorado through the Grand Canyon!
5. And since I'm throwing out ideas, how about down hill skiing, or simple hiking!

What would really make Outerra a household name amongst sim enthusiast is to provide an engine that allows the implementation of several outlets. I for one have dreamed of a single simulated world that would allow me to do the things I've mentioned above and more.

6. Watching the videos I noticed that LOD works pretty much like everything I've seen in the past...the closer you get the more detailed objects become. I've always wanted the ability to push LOD out as far as my system would allow. In other words, rather than details becoming there best up close (usually a few hundred yards) which I find distracting, allow the end user to push the LOD out as far as their individual setups would allow. I can't imagine flying along and watching fractals pop up constantly, or tree details popping constantly as the LOD increases.
7. As of yet I haven't read anything on environmental shadows, i.e. trees, bushes, clouds, mountains, etc. etc. One of the things I'd like to see disappear from simulations is what I refer to as the comic book painting look. Nearly every simulation to date looks more like a drawing than real life. This of course has more to do with pallet and the use of light and shadows. Although I wouldn't call H.A.W.X. or Ace Combat 6 flight simulators, I do think they've come the closest to a more realistic environment than anything available to date. It would be wonderful to see the lighting effects in Outerra provides this level of reality.

What are your plans for towns and cities?

Thanks for all the work you're doing...fingers are crossed for compete success.

-Stephen
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on April 12, 2010, 07:25:37 am
Welcome, Stephen
We too dream of a single simulation world, and Outerra has been built with that goal in mind.
Certainly the platform has to be open to addon makers and modders - we have no intention to make a closed system, that would die off pretty soon. Though, currently we don't focus on this aspect very much as the core system needs to evolve first.

The roads are easy to place, a road can be defined by placing several waypoints and the engine creates a smoothly interpolated road that is nicely integrated to the world, also modifying the surrounding terrain by creating rocky slopes if the road cuts deep to terrain. The asphalt has a physical height and so on. Import from a vector database will be possible as well.
(http://www.outerra.com/images/road.jpg)

The railroads are a bit different in our system as the geometry for rails will be generated dynamically. But of course it is possible and it will be done once it gets into the plan.

There's no water yet except for a simple water plane for seas.
The rivers will be created in a similar way the roads work, using vector data to carve the riverbeds and a shader for animating the water. I can imagine someone could create an addon for rafting then, for example.

As for the LOD - our LOD system works by computing screen size of a terrain feature, and drawing it (or selecting a corresponding detail level) when it is above a specified threshold. So it's possible to specify a threshold anyone wants, even sub-pixel one.
It's not quite that simple though, because there are also other parameters that affect the rendering, for example several limits for various rendering-related entities because of the limited graphics card memory, that will have to be adjusted too with rising detail.

The shadows aren't limited to objects, basically it's just a question of performance.

As for the towns and cities, we are preparing some test of instancing performance with thousands of buildings. So far it looks good. But we do not need the city rendering for our first demo game so this really should be just a test of the engine in this area.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: SRStever on April 12, 2010, 09:24:33 am
Thanks for the reply and it all sounds so promising.  As I'm sure you know the flight and train sim communities are desperate for a new terrain and environmental engine from which the next generation flight/train sims can commence. If I might make a suggestion, why not announce Outerra on a few of the major flight/train sim community sites, such as AVSIM, FlightSim, etc. and allow the community juices to start flowing? You might even find developers who can provide invaluable information regarding flight dynamics, weather, airports, landclass, etc. etc.

-Stephen
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on April 12, 2010, 01:22:22 pm
You mean an announcement about development of environmental engine for sims? Well I don't know .. announcing is super easy, but the thing is we do not have the funding such a goal requires, and it would be a bit preliminary. We are starting small - working primarily on features needed for our first game. But yes, the purpose of the game is mainly to advertise the engine and to get some money for the futher development in order to reach that goal. Time will show what will be the path to it. We have been contacted already by a few smaller combat sim developers about the possibility to use the engine in their future products that may commence next year, so maybe it could start showing there initially.

Our focus is now the development of core terrain/environment rendering features, it will take a while until it will be completely usable for a sim project though.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: evilnate on April 12, 2010, 11:49:39 pm
Want to generate some real hype for this engine? Particle effects (i.e explosions).
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on April 13, 2010, 04:14:03 am
Not really interested in hyping it too much, we are quite satisfied with the amount of interest we are receiving now and an overwhelming fan traffic would probably seriously eat from our development time as well.

Nevertheless the particle effects are in the works :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: MatthewS on April 15, 2010, 02:05:36 am
That shot above of the road looks incredible!
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on June 10, 2010, 11:51:59 pm
Quote from: cameni
Not really interested in hyping it too much, we are quite satisfied with the amount of interest we are receiving now and an overwhelming fan traffic would probably seriously eat from our development time as well.

You know it's funny you say that, I was going to plaster links to this all over the ArmA and rFactor forums to get it noticed but didn't because I know what can happen when a developer has 100,000 people breathing down his neck.

As for an idea for what to do with this engine in a demo. An Off roading sim comes to mind. Your progress with that Tatra proves the current physics model can support it well enough. Maybe 2 - 3 vehicles.

The real way to demo this would be with a multi-player option. Even just for lan so hamachi can be used to get more than one person onto that landscape. Demo's are fun but telling your friends about it never compares to being there with them.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on June 10, 2010, 11:56:30 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
You know it's funny you say that, I was going to plaster links to this all over the ArmA and rFactor forums to get it noticed but didn't because I know what can happen when a developer has 100,000 people breathing down his neck.

As for an idea for what to do with this engine in a demo. An Off roading sim comes to mind. Your progress with that Tatra proves the current physics model can support it well enough. Maybe 2 - 3 vehicles.

The real way to demo this would be with a multi-player option. Even just for lan so hamachi can be used to get more than one person onto that landscape. Demo's are fun but telling your friends about it never compares to being there with them.
Sounds like a good idea, but some additional publicity may be wise in order to have growth in the future.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on June 11, 2010, 12:44:36 am
Quote from: RaikoRaufoss
Sounds like a good idea, but some additional publicity may be wise in order to have growth in the future.

Well the only way to have growth with such an early development is the addition of team members or severe budget increases. So you would need to show it to the right people not just anyone.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on June 11, 2010, 03:07:04 am
Off road racing is on our list of possible things to do, but in itself it doesn't fulfill the need to demonstrate a planetary engine fully. As one of the quests or things to do in the world it may be good. But the multiplayer would be necessary there, yes.

I was thinking if there could be some off road race around the world. The distances are enormous so some stages would have to be with some rocket powered futuristic vehicles or something, other ones across canyons or deserts with off road cars, that kind of thing.
But I do not have thought it thoroughly, not sure if it will be interesting and how the ranking will be implemented and so on.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Kridian on August 23, 2010, 10:41:36 am
Quote from: cameni
...what kind of game would you like to see made with the engine; what features should the game and engine have etc.
Any related ideas are welcome!

There's nothing more exhilarating than jumping out the back of a plane, so maybe start off with a paratrooper doing that, parachuting down to a basecamp (or airfield) with different vehicles to try out.
[img=halojump]http://www.picshelf.com/images/arma/HALO_stratosphere.png[/img]

Or into a battlezone where explosions are impacting nearby to show off your particle system. Just a mock battle scene.

------------------
Dropship idea:

[img=Dropship Cockpit]http://www.picshelf.com/images/arma/Dropship-cockpit.jpg[/img]
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on August 24, 2010, 11:52:35 am
Nice :)

That idea is actually quite demanding, requiring physics for parachutes, good sounds for immersion etc. And the particle system.
But just today we were discussing how we'll be doing craters after explosions, and we came to a conclusion that it might be quite easy after adding specific support into the terrain generator. So I'm toying with the idea this might be an interesting thing to try, after we implement a proper particle system.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: wael on August 24, 2010, 02:13:41 pm
I really like this game from the video already and as soon this comes out i will buy it...
but i have some things to say:
1)can you make a combat mode, i mean that if there are some fighters in this game then they can fire weapons and can shot down planes with smoke and crash and every thing OR ATleast if you can do that you can make it a possibilty that anyone can make it as an addon later not like flight simulator where you cant make this.
2)some missions in the game. and when you finish them you can get some more from any place else.
3)About other planets i think it will be very hard for you because you have to make some missions up there and the kind of missions in this kind of game (simulators) is to fly from one airport to another , so you will have to make airports up there whish wont be so realistec because there are no airports there or you can make mission where you can look around for things in this planet but at this point i think you will be an RPG game like mass effect and things like this with the only diffrance is the shooting.
4)finally can you make the mission starts outside the plane.

thanks for this great great game..........
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on August 24, 2010, 02:59:32 pm
Quote from: wael
1)can you make a combat mode, i mean that if there are some fighters in this game then they can fire weapons and can shot down planes with smoke and crash and every thing OR ATleast if you can do that you can make it a possibilty that anyone can make it as an addon later not like flight simulator where you cant make this.
2)some missions in the game. and when you finish them you can get some more from any place else.
3)About other planets i think it will be very hard for you because you have to make some missions up there and the kind of missions in this kind of game (simulators) is to fly from one airport to another , so you will have to make airports up there whish wont be so realistec because there are no airports there or you can make mission where you can look around for things in this planet but at this point i think you will be an RPG game like mass effect and things like this with the only diffrance is the shooting.
4)finally can you make the mission starts outside the plane.

thanks for this great great game..........
I was hoping for a combat mode too.  Weapons are a must, and like I've said before, we cold use a vessel that is capable of interstellar travel as well as operating in a terrestrial environment.  I was thinking it could have 3 sections, the front one for piloting and troop transport, the middle one for heavy artillery, and the rear one for propulsion.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on August 24, 2010, 03:22:10 pm
I think you are starting to confuse the engine for a game more and more :)
I know it's easy to get carried away when looking at the world and imagining the possibilities, but still - an actual game will be a lot of work that we cannot easily manage in this setup with our resources, especially when we'll have to support other teams working on their games using the engine.

We can probably make only a game that is heavily procedural, intended for engine demonstration but otherwise not very deep in story or amount of graphic assets.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 24, 2010, 03:31:15 pm
This is really the hardest thing to think of ever.

You guys can say "Combat mode" till the cows come home but that is going to require someone to model vehicles, code their driving physics, implement a weapon holding system, model the weapons and code there trajectory, range, etc. Then you will need a damage system so that tanks and guns can hurt and damage players and models.

Basically an entire game would need to be built.

I think sticking with what they have shown us already would be a good starting point.

Improve the off-road drive-ability across the terrain mesh. You said it was too low currently. Perhaps if the actual collision mesh tightened around a player or vehicle.

Flight is pretty basic. Just add another plane or helicopter.

You could add the moon... or not.

And why not just let us blow things up. Dynamite for everyone.

I have one request. Most games don't show your own player model. If you look at your feet you see nothing. ArmA does show your model and looking down results in seeing your feet and arms and the camera's viewpoint is the eye. If that could be enabled in this engine. It would be a great improvement.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on August 24, 2010, 03:47:18 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Improve the off-road drive-ability across the terrain mesh. You said it was too low currently. Perhaps if the actual collision mesh tightened around a player or vehicle.
That was before, in the first video with Tatra where tires were occasionally seen "flying" - the resolution was >1m then, now it's ~0.15m

Quote
I have one request. Most games don't show your own player model. If you look at your feet you see nothing. ArmA does show your model and looking down results in seeing your feet and arms and the camera's viewpoint is the eye. If that could be enabled in this engine. It would be a great improvement.
Unexpected things happen with that. You know, we actually have a model there when moving with FPS controller (somewhere you can see a shadow of the man), and we also have the logarithmic z-buffer that gives unprecedented depth resolution and allows to position the near camera clipping plane really close.

So what happened when looking down at boots? Since camera isn't stereoscopic, it's positioned between the eyes. So we saw .. a big, really enormous nose taking most of the screen :)

And the sight was so unexpected that it took time to even realize what it was. The first words were like, OMG what is this whale doing here .. :D
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 24, 2010, 10:29:43 pm
Quote from: cameni
That was before, in the first video with Tatra where tires were occasionally seen "flying" - the resolution was >1m then, now it's ~0.15m

Excellent to hear. That should improve realistic drive-ability for off-roaders.


Quote from: cameni
So what happened when looking down at boots? Since camera isn't stereoscopic, it's positioned between the eyes. So we saw .. a big, really enormous nose taking most of the screen :)

And the sight was so unexpected that it took time to even realize what it was. The first words were like, OMG what is this whale doing here .. :D

That is both hilarious and awesome. So was the neck not moving and the eyes only?
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on August 25, 2010, 01:54:56 am
Quote from: ZeosPantera
That is both hilarious and awesome. So was the neck not moving and the eyes only?
It was just a movement of eyes. Suppose you were a Cyclops and looked down without moving your head. I bet the one who invented the Cyclopes didn't think of that :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 25, 2010, 02:38:14 am
(http://www.englisch.schule.de/wiesmoor/leela.jpg)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: maxter on September 10, 2010, 11:30:23 am
I think that as a tech demonstrator you should decide on a small picturesque part of the world, say an island maybe 150kms x 100kms or thereabouts.  Get as much terrain detail into it as possible, mock up a couple of towns and airports.  Google earth should provide as much detail as necessary.

Put the major roads in as well as the waterways.  It would be nice to be able to generate a couple of weather scenarios, including precip and possibly snow.

Give us one light aircraft (C172) and a couple of vehicles (one smaller car and a truck) to demonstrate the physics engine and finally give us a simple tool to place some canned houses and trees (small library of objects maybe 6 and a simple placement tool).

Aircraft systems need only be fairly basic, it is the physics model and visuals that I think you will be judged by.  We all know that clever third part artists and developers will be able to do much more.

Anyhow looking forward to whatever it is that you provide as a demo.

Cheers
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: corona on September 10, 2010, 12:46:15 pm
I disagree that they should spend time doing that.

They should just give us the world (entire) in whatever state they have it, plus importers (for models/textures/vector data).
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Abc94 on September 10, 2010, 02:37:22 pm
Yeah I don't really like the idea of limiting the "world" to a very small area (when compared to the whole earth) when the main feature of the engine is being able to generate the entire Earth itself.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: jtreiman on September 17, 2010, 10:04:15 pm
hey i got really good ideas!

1.working car to go in airplanes on milti-single player,,, ex. humvee in c-17...for skydiver in heli..

2. realistic stalls, ex. out of control spins, flips and stall. if you ever played il-2 1946 you would know.

3. realistic crashes, ex. planes would break is crashed
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: wael on September 19, 2010, 12:49:09 pm
I need to ask you something
if you already made the spins of the planes now
did you made the flat spin for planes.
in all flight simulators they didnt made the flat spin i dont know why maybe because they say that you cant recover from it but still it would be very nice to make it .
and one more thing i know you didnt put any millitary planes in this engine but when you do it do you think you can make the pilot eject from the plane or it will be that hard .
maybe if something happrnd to his plane he can eject and then when he reaches the ground he can take a car and go to his base or if he is in enemy ground the enemy can hunt him down and suff like this.........
sorry for my bad english..
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 19, 2010, 03:11:50 pm
The question about spins should be really asked in the JSBSim mailing list, we aren't handling the flight dynamics ourselves, and even if JSBSim didn't support it, another flight dynamics engine could be used in conjunction with Outerra.

As for specific features like ejection - it depends on a game if it decides to implement it, but it is certainly possible. The engine allows it by enabling a combination of FPS and flight sim style views, so one can imagine such scenario.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ddenn on September 19, 2010, 04:14:00 pm
Quote from: wael
in all flight simulators they didnt made the flat spin i dont know why maybe because they say that you cant recover from it but still it would be very nice to make it .

You are not quite correct here, that's possible in the x-plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCp7xd-68
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 19, 2010, 10:34:56 pm
Quote from: cameni
As for specific features like ejection - it depends on a game if it decides to implement it, but it is certainly possible. The engine allows it by enabling a combination of FPS and flight sim style views, so one can imagine such scenario.

So your saying its not the responsibility of Outerra to handle that. Like this

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/F12Bwth4/th_4.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/F12Bwth4/?action=view¤t=4.jpg)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2010, 01:26:04 am
I don't understand what you are trying to say. I was saying that the engine concentrates on terrain & planet rendering and we aren't trying to act as if we were experts on all aspects of simulation and everything else, but rather opening the possibility to implement such functionality by the game developers.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on September 20, 2010, 02:03:47 am
I think what Zeos is trying to say is that it's not the job of the Outerra engine to simulate the cycles of a reciprocating engine.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 20, 2010, 02:33:54 am
Quote from: RaikoRaufoss
I think what Zeos is trying to say is that it's not the job of the Outerra engine to simulate the cycles of a reciprocating engine.

Pretty much. I should minimize that image. Had no idea it was full size.

Maybe I should hint that Cameni should also make a matching vehicle sim physics engine... because im sure it will be awesome ;)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2010, 02:39:38 am
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Maybe I should hint that Cameni should also make a matching vehicle sim physics engine... because im sure it will be awesome ;)
Haha, sure thing, no problem. I'm appending it to my TODO list. Just give me some 3 minutes to scroll to the end of it :D
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: wael on September 20, 2010, 06:24:43 am
Quote from: ddenn
Quote from: wael
in all flight simulators they didnt made the flat spin i dont know why maybe because they say that you cant recover from it but still it would be very nice to make it .

You are not quite correct here, that's possible in the x-plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCp7xd-68

first the video was great but this is not what i mean what you made here is the standered spin and this is done by full throttle and full rudder ( for millitay aircraft maybe it is done with another way) but the flat spin i think you cant make them i think they are done by one of the engine faileurs it is when the aircraft fall down and spinning horizontally to the ground and you cant get out of it you have to eject from your plane however what the standered spin you can get out of it by reversing rudder and gaining speed by putting you nose down (i think).
flat spin is not a maneuver it happens in a very sppecial conditions which makes the plane fall , i think if you watched the top gun movie what killed his friend in the air was a flat spin if you take alook at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmuj2pDt-o.
he explanes the stalls and spins but if you are intersted in the spins he will start explaning them at 4.40 .
and i know that this is a video game but he is explaning why stalls and spins happining in real life .......
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Aman on September 20, 2010, 06:25:38 am
Hey there...
i just fell in love with your Techdemo!
The first thing, that came to my mind was "Hey, a Trial-Simulation with Heavy Trucks an/or Bikes like a GasGas etc. must be great". Another idea i have is a Rally-Game like "Colin McRae Rally" BUT with open terrain. Navigating with maps and GPS to stay on route, using landmarks for reference...
Man, im dreaming about such a game for many years.
Flight Simulation is a hard thing to master, i guess.
DCS ist doing very well in this sector, im looking forward for the new "A-10 C"!
Dont waste your engine for a casual game. Do something special with it.
What about a Heli-Simulation like "Air-Rescue"?
That game was great, but the simulation itself was solala. The landscape-engine was horrible (like my english) ;)
There are plenty of Missions possible (burning Oil rig, Hikers lost in Mountains, Traffic accident, supporting Police...).

A Tank-Simulation like "M1 Tank Platoon"
"Apache Longbow II"

All these ideas dont require much Story. So u can concentrate on the technical aspects.
If u need Brainpower to flesh out some ideas, there are plenty of ppl in this forum to help u out.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: halobungie on September 20, 2010, 08:18:09 am
Hello,
can you publish a new Video from Outerra?
Thanks a Lot in Advance.
Greetings,
halobungie
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2010, 08:25:40 am
We are currently in the midst of reworking and updating several components of the engine and at the moment nothing works :rolleyes: Kind of :)
But I was thinking about piecing together a video from the unused footage from the last one (in Himalayas).

If anyone's interested.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: maxter on September 20, 2010, 09:07:40 am
Interested?  Heck yeah...  Bring it on...
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: corona on September 20, 2010, 09:34:59 am
I would also be interested in some more technical videos, for instance a dev diary (not literally a diary thats done daily, but somelike like bi-weekly or so).

Perhaps a video that shows the effects of different fractal parameters, start out with wireframe renderings, then toggle on fractal refinements and explain quickly whats happening, etc.

That kinda thing :-)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: halobungie on September 20, 2010, 09:46:40 am
i am interested too!!!!!!
Best thanks in Advance!
halobungie
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 20, 2010, 09:48:20 am
Quote from: corona
Perhaps a video that shows the effects of different fractal parameters, start out with wireframe renderings, then toggle on fractal refinements and explain quickly whats happening, etc.

That kinda thing :-)
Hmm .. I might kinda do that :)
Probably not the fractal refinement as it has been featured already, but the fractal texturing could be a good candidate.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: corona on September 20, 2010, 09:56:48 am
*you know you want to*you know you want to**you know you want to*you know you want to*

PS: I knew my mind-control classes weren't wasted money!
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Falk on September 28, 2010, 06:02:13 pm
Hello :)

Congratulations to you - i´m overpowered from the Possibilities of your cosmic Rendering Engine.

At the age of nearly nine years of experience in 3d design - Outerra opens a Universe of Possibilities of Building 3d Worlds.


I´m really interested in Creating a "game"in OUTERRA. At the moment i´ve no determined idea except to build more individual Models all over the world, if it is aimed to do a copy of our real world. Such as the different types of vegetations, climatic zones, Stone and Rocktypes, maybe even the "tier world" ( animal world ). The are alot of things that would be able to modeled, texturebaked and animated exported to Outerra. For example a scripted alife behaviour between the animals :)

Think Outerra is able to be a never ending game, complementet over and over again with new features like parachute jumping from 30000 feet over sealevel ;)    

Is there a Possibility do to a Project with you ? If you are interested please email me. My skills enclose many different 3d Tools, so i´m a flink modeller can paint different textures (shaders). Also i can do Global-illumination bakeing directly to Texturemap and alot of other CG-things. Last four years i take a deep look in different realtime-engines - so i have a good basic knowledge about 3d realtime rendering.

It would be glad to hear from you !!!

All the best to you

Falk near Munich
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on September 29, 2010, 02:47:19 am
Thanks, Falk

At the moment the tools for artists aren't finished so it would be a bit problematic; we are still testing them with some imported models and updating them to handle further features. But I hope the demo (or some of its successive updates) will eventually enable people to create the content for the world, and I expect from this could arise a tighter cooperation between us and capable people.

Currently we are defining what resources the different climate zones and land classes will be using. There should be few textures and a definition file per land type. Vegetation is different, as we need a smooth LOD switching there so there will be a generator that is capable of creating all the stages along with definitions for transitions etc., so toying with this can only come later.
I think we could use some help from the community with defining all the climate/land types, but we have to take the initial steps ourselves, to prepare the system in a universal way.

I think that just now the reasonable thing is to wait for the demo, and after the initial exploration period we will try and talk about how it can be extended and modded and where it sits with everyone's plans :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Blackhawk998 on November 01, 2010, 07:51:14 pm
Hi :)

I was just wondering about the scale of Earth created if you know what I mean. Say I took off in an aeroplane and was going at a realistic speed and height around the world, would it take me a realistic amount of time to travel the circumference of the world? Would I be sitting there for like 2 days straight just flying?

Thanks
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 01, 2010, 07:57:29 pm
Quote from: Blackhawk998
I was just wondering about the scale of Earth created if you know what I mean. Say I took off in an aeroplane and was going at a realistic speed and height around the world, would it take me a realistic amount of time to travel the circumference of the world? Would I be sitting there for like 2 days straight just flying

Yes.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Blackhawk998 on November 01, 2010, 08:06:48 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote from: Blackhawk998
I was just wondering about the scale of Earth created if you know what I mean. Say I took off in an aeroplane and was going at a realistic speed and height around the world, would it take me a realistic amount of time to travel the circumference of the world? Would I be sitting there for like 2 days straight just flying

Yes.

Awesome, thanks for that. I must say this engine completely blows me away. Amazing work
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 01, 2010, 08:13:53 pm
Quote from: Blackhawk998
Awesome, thanks for that. I must say this engine completely blows me away. Amazing work

Its the immense attention to detail that gets me. http://outerra.blogspot.com/2010/05/integrating-vector-data-roads.html
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Blackhawk998 on November 01, 2010, 09:32:20 pm
Quote
Its the immense attention to detail that gets me. http://outerra.blogspot.com/2010/05/integrating-vector-data-roads.html

Yeh I know what you mean. I'm not exactly a genius when it comes to computers or coding, so it just boggles me how an engine can be so powerful and immense. All from just code. Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on November 01, 2010, 09:39:27 pm
Quote from: Blackhawk998
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?
Indeed it is.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 01, 2010, 10:11:29 pm
Quote from: Blackhawk998
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?

Your Wrong.. Its all made up of Dreams and Aspirations.. or Sweat and Tears more likely
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jagerbomber on November 02, 2010, 12:47:28 am
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote from: Blackhawk998
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?

Your Wrong.. Its all made up of Dream and Aspirations.. or Sweat and Tears more likely

Angry pig tears. :( :P
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: OGREMAN on November 03, 2010, 07:53:42 am
Hi, just have to ask a question about "scale" in relation to mapping references and another question about the Outerra approach to the physics of the atmosphere.

Q1. will the generated world have a global mapping reference system built in and if yes, what level of accuracy would you hope to achieve. I understand that the engine renders the terrain to a detail level of less than half a metre but think that having an accurate global mapping sytem accompanying the engine would be an essential tool. The reason for this enquiry is that I have experience in mission building for a combat flight simulator where one of the biggest irritations is trying to place objects into the VR world with accuracy... often the mapping tool (used for placement of objects) bears only a passing resemblance to the terrain that is generated resulting in many hours of extrat time double checking that an object placement ends up where it should be.

Q2. My particular interest in this world generator is from the point of view of Flight Simming in general but combat flight in particular.... so as an avid virtual pilot I am well aware of the crucial interaction between the atmosphere and any given aircraft. Indeed some aircraft are totally dependant on the dynamics of the atmosphere for them to do their thing (gliders). Whereas powered aircraft while effected by the dynamics of air movement are much more concerned with other aspects of its behaviour ie weather extremes visability and cloud structures. This leads me to be very curious about how the outerra engine will deal with the creation of planetry weather and just as importantly the micro activity of clouds.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on November 03, 2010, 10:43:23 am
Quote from: OGREMAN
Q1. will the generated world have a global mapping reference system built in and if yes, what level of accuracy would you hope to achieve. I understand that the engine renders the terrain to a detail level of less than half a metre but think that having an accurate global mapping sytem accompanying the engine would be an essential tool. The reason for this enquiry is that I have experience in mission building for a combat flight simulator where one of the biggest irritations is trying to place objects into the VR world with accuracy... often the mapping tool (used for placement of objects) bears only a passing resemblance to the terrain that is generated resulting in many hours of extrat time double checking that an object placement ends up where it should be.
Um, I don't quite understand what's the problem with the mapping tool there. Are you saying that the final result doesn't contain the objects/modification at the precise place where it was put to by the mapping tool? Or that it is impossible to place it precisely in the first place? Can you elaborate?

The problem has two sides. First, objects can be positioned using different coordinate systems, but I guess the basic ones would be the lat-lon(+alt), and ECEF. These conversions are precise, although there still may be some issues when we go down to sub-meter resolutions.

Another side is mapping of the terrain data. This depends on the precision of the data itself, but there's also a small error caused by remapping the data to our internal coordinate system, that can be generally minimized by supersampling, although that in turn increases the size of dataset.
These two facets are connected though: if there's an error/offset in how the terrain data are mapped, you might not want to position the objects at their measured positions, but you may want to shift it to match the terrain features. I mean, when a cliff is moved few meters inwards, you should not place a road stubbornly at the exact place where it is in real life. But there shouldn't be many such cases.

Quote
My particular interest in this world generator is from the point of view of Flight Simming in general but combat flight in particular.... so as an avid virtual pilot I am well aware of the crucial interaction between the atmosphere and any given aircraft. Indeed some aircraft are totally dependant on the dynamics of the atmosphere for them to do their thing (gliders). Whereas powered aircraft while effected by the dynamics of air movement are much more concerned with other aspects of its behaviour ie weather extremes visability and cloud structures. This leads me to be very curious about how the outerra engine will deal with the creation of planetry weather and just as importantly the micro activity of clouds.
Atmospheric effects are outside of the graphic engine, and are expected to be covered by an addon. However, there should be a basic implementation included to the engine, that uses a mathematical model and produces external forces for FDM. AFAIK JSBSim has got a support for simulating the turbulence, so instead of the forces causing the turbulence one could provide just some value (I guess).
It is expected that any addon would need to interact with the engine that will provide the terrain data. What model will be used for the default implementation isn't known yet, but there was some discussion about it here (http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=100)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: OGREMAN on November 04, 2010, 08:10:02 am
Hi Cameni,
thanks for the response to my questions, the atmospherics enquiry is well summed up by the remarks made by Deltasim. I hope that Outerra's innovative engine and superb graphics are not let down by a poor "weather plugin"... as I have previously said, the mid ground approach by other flight sim devs has been to generate a pretty poor faximily of important weather activity.

The mapping question I thought was a simple one, will the Outerra engine's terrain generator have an accompanying (inbuilt) spacial referencing tool that will allow 3rd party objects/vehicles/civilisation to be placed with accuracy and just how accurate would you expect such a tool to be?

My concern is that if developers have to re-map the Outerra generated terrain from scratch, then the process will cause the kind of errors that drive users of their mapping tools crazy. Whatever its reference "X,Y,Z  or Alt, LAT & LONG or Ordanance survey grid... if the referencing system is a 2nd 3rd 4th removed re-calculation then errors are created. I hope this clears up any confusion.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on November 04, 2010, 08:29:53 am
Well at the moment there's a possibility to enter a Lat/Lon/Alt and heading and pitch values into the position window, to move the camera to that precise spot. This should be a universal option in all other tools that deal with positioning, so one could place pivot points for object and road placement via this method.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: OGREMAN on November 05, 2010, 04:47:15 pm
Many thanks Cameni... I LOVE this Terrain Generator... cant wait for it to be driving in a Combat flight sim... wonderful
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Repvez on November 20, 2010, 02:48:30 pm
could be the next video to show what a fighter flight  in outerra? we've seen a truck, slow airplane, helicopter. But it would be nice to see a highly detailed model of fighter aircraft is flying.

continued success in the development
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on November 21, 2010, 01:55:14 pm
It's possible there will be a fighter aircraft too, once we get our hands on a good model and there is a corresponding flight dynamics model in JSBSim for it as well. Probably not in the next video though.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Chrischn on January 15, 2011, 09:58:34 am
Hey guys im new here and I am astonished by this incredible piece of technology!!!

Too bad that it will take several years until we can see a full budget game utilizing this beautiful engine :(

Anyway to contribute to the original idea of this thread I sat down and thought what key aspects had to be in a promotion game to show most of Outerra´s features. Well first thing to consider is that you have to be somewhat close to the ground to get the right feeling and also be able to notice the microdetails like trees and groundtextures. Therefor steering vehicles from a first person view is a good call. The second thing I thought about was that you want to see different places of that world and preferably in a short period of time, which means you have to be able to move fast.
I guess there is no doubt that aircrafts would suit this role the best.
It is kind of a coincidence but I know a game where you have these exact same characteristics (it does in fact already look pretty similar to Outerra but by far not as detailed).

I am talking about LockOn (Flaming Cliffs 2).

Most of you people know it for sure, as I noticed that there are many Milsim-fans around here. For those who don´t: it is an Aircraft Combat Sim, which simulates Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground combat with modern fighterjets.
If you compare both engines you will see that they have much in common like generic buildings, trees, roads and a huge viewdistance plus a correct presentation of real world geometrical-data (in case of LockOn it is Georgia in the middle eastern).
Of course it shouldnt be a dull copy of this game but a sort of playable tech demo. Therefor I´d suggest concentrating on one single aircraft as too many wouldnt contribute to the goal to present the engine very much. A Sukhoi 25 close air support fighter would be perfect as these planes fly mostly in low/medium altitudes and also not with supersonic velocity (more time to watch the beautiful environment). This aircraft also doesnt rely on fancy electronics (it doesnt even have an autopilot for that matter) and would let the player feel the full fledged air simulation physics. There wouldnt be a need for long research either, as this plane is really pretty straight forward (even in terms of weapon systems).
Physics for ground vehicles would come in pretty handy to simulate ground traffic on airfields but also for hostile convoys driving along the generated roads and of course deep in the woods.
In order to show different areas of our beloved planet you can easily set up a simple missions in different places.

Well to come to an end I just want to say that if you look closely at LockOn you can see that it doesnt need sophisticated AI or Crysis visuals/effects to be entertaining and challenging.
I guess this would be a very good choice to demonstrate the full power of Outerra and yet be a minimun of work as there is not much stuff to model/research/script.

Hope this was in any way helpful or inspiring and I am eager to see Outerra live in action! (Even as a cow simulator playing in Switzerland if it has to be! :) )
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: grabacr 31770 on January 15, 2011, 10:13:11 am
There are so many options for this game. While it will take a while, a military sim has been discussed I believe and could well be an option for the game.

Of course there will also be a demo as soon as possible, with all the vehicles currently implemented and all that jazz.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on January 15, 2011, 12:15:48 pm
Quote from: Chrischn
Cow simulator playing in Switzerland

I can't wait.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Bartolomeus on January 16, 2011, 03:07:59 pm
Hello

I'm new here and Iam very impressed by the Outerra Engine.

I think the Engine would be a perfect platform for a Martime Simulation like VStep's ShipSimulator (civil or military Sim). But i think the Outerra Engine has a greater potential.

Major benefits of the Outerra Engine would be:

- the entire world without loadingscreen phases (like in Microsoft's Flight Simulator)
- real scaled Earth
- the terrain looks really amazing
- to have a underwater environment (for submarines)
- and to have the opportunity to drive cars in the harbor

Looking forward to the progress of this wonderful engine!

Best Regards
Marko
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on January 16, 2011, 03:17:44 pm
Hi Marko, welcome here.

Finally we've got a maritime sim guy aboard ;)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Flubadoo on February 11, 2011, 07:17:10 am
The graphics really look good, especially considering the size of Earth.

One suggestion I would make is to make grass slightly more... varied?

For example, if you look at this picture: http://www.outerra.com/shots/w-ventoux4.jpg
You only have dark green and light green, which I think could look better if there was variation.

In ArmA 2, looking at things from pretty far away look really nice, and I don't expect Outerra to look as nice (so my hardware isn't consumed in a raging bonfire), but I think more variation like in ArmA 2 would help a ton in the visual quality.

I took two ArmA 2 screenshots in 1080p at high settings:
http://s797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/flubadoofunbrain/?action=view¤t=arma22011-02-1115-06-54-95.jpg
http://s797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/flubadoofunbrain/?action=view¤t=arma22011-02-1115-06-42-41.jpg
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on February 11, 2011, 08:13:40 am
Quote from: Flubadoo
One suggestion I would make is to make grass slightly more... varied?
Definitely. Don't take the grass as a final solution - quite contrary, it's just a placeholder. Multiple things will completely change the way it looks now - first, the climate data that will define rough color for approximately 500x500m areas, refined by a slightly finer fractal to gain color detail below that level, finally translating to a mix of terrain materials on the ground level.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: necro on February 11, 2011, 08:20:03 am
You already know that outerra is still in development? So nothing is final? You are proposing more variety in grass.. lol, outerra doesnt have grass yet. So you cannot see ANY variation.. Did you even see some screenshots of outerra? Have a look in the demo screens section. What i want to say is: Proposing visual improvements like grass is too early.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: RaikoRaufoss on February 11, 2011, 02:02:40 pm
Necro, there is a sort of grass already, it just isn't 3D yet.  And even though it's not 3D it looks spectacular. :D
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 11, 2011, 02:17:25 pm
Quote from: Flubadoo
In ArmA 2, looking at things from pretty far away look really nice, and I don't expect Outerra to look as nice

I do, the current OT grass is essentially a placeholder [EDIT Damn you cameni for stealing my exact words before I wrote them]. The shots from Arma2 are not just grass they are wheat fields and meadows and all placed by a texture artist. All the grass in OT is placed everywhere by the procedural generator on ground that is flat enough to support it. There are no plans for having auto-generated plowed fields across the globe since the OT world is essentially uninhabited. That's not saying you wont be able to plow your own fields (Wink Wink Idea for the game).

Plus in most arma2 screens from afar all you see is the repeating textures and blobs of low res texture like they never intended you to see it from above. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Game%20Screens/th_arma22009-11-1922-29-37-73.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Game%20Screens/arma22009-11-1922-29-37-73.jpg)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: necro on February 11, 2011, 04:01:33 pm
Quote from: RaikoRaufoss
Necro, there is a sort of grass already, it just isn't 3D yet.  And even though it's not 3D it looks spectacular. :D

:D yah, sure. Maybe he meant the far away texture - i meant the particular grass :P

@Zeos:
far away you sometimes can just see the boring greyish fog, which is looking very unnaturally. No correct color perspective (i guess mie scattering). So comparing OT with Arma2 doesnt make sense. Arma has a big toyplane - OT a huge toyplanet. Whats better? I dont think the grass should weight the decision :P
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: mrr on March 18, 2011, 05:01:26 pm
A search and rescue game.. find the people and transport them to safety.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: alasmattano on March 25, 2011, 04:08:57 am
I have a very nice 2004 glider in 3d polygon (ETA 30meters span LD1:60).
instrument are like the plane but different position plus need a total energy barometer.
but there are no lift, thermals, ride, waves, etc?
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on March 25, 2011, 04:37:08 am
Not yet, I guess it could come in an addon, or implemented as a core functionality if we get to make a sim one day. Otherwise it can be applied to FDM in JSBSim easily.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Alen Bajrovic on March 27, 2011, 09:27:46 pm
you should integrate Weather system (dynamic) snow and rain with snow surface shading and glossy rain shader , also good falling effect will be great like fs2004 and windshield effects or VC snow and rain effect :) low visibility layers , 3D clouds (hd) and finally post effects (sun shraft , GI , reflection , rain halo's) HDR supporT AND DX11 , I cant wait demo :)) , please make demo flight simuator with all graphic suported ,  only map limited , Good luck !
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: BenDragon on July 29, 2011, 08:09:49 am
post removed
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on July 29, 2011, 05:31:08 pm
In many respects it's similar to other world-building ideas, in fact I'd not call it an idea - it basically tries to emulate the real life in a game :)
But I've always wanted to make something like TTD or Transport Giant in Outerra World, with ability to take over the AI driven vehicles if one wishes so ..

Now we just need someone to start programming it :)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: BenDragon on July 30, 2011, 02:06:00 am
Quote from: cameni
In many respects it's similar to other world-building ideas, in fact I'd not call it an idea - it basically tries to emulate the real life in a game :)
Isn't that the whole point of a simulator? :P
Quote from: cameni
But I've always wanted to make something like TTD or Transport Giant in Outerra World, with ability to take over the AI driven vehicles if one wishes so ..
I think the whole 3D thing with tt has been done on another game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668-USF1uZ8.

Perhaps now is the right time to introduce a 3D world to a 2D game?
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on July 30, 2011, 03:01:52 am
Making it in OT will bring another layer of complexity though, if it should be up to the standard. Basically, apart from the need to have the complete game mechanism implemented (somebody should better start implementing it now), we'll need all the animations and additional detail to make it believable in OT world.

It would be fantastic, no doubt. I hope with successive steps we'll get there, one day :)
Shame there are so many ideas, so little time :/
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 30, 2011, 04:09:36 am
Quote from: cameni
Shame there are so many ideas, so little time :/

Time is not important only coders are important. Throw 1,000 assistants in line and 2,000 to check their code for errors and you will knock out all the ideas in no time.

Step 1. Start selling outerra

Step 2. Make some money

Step 3. Blow money on Strippers and Coding Staff

(If Applicable get girls who can code and strip to optimize efficiency)
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on July 30, 2011, 04:24:59 am
Ok, I meant the codertime :)
That part about getting coders that would fit in will be hard, I feel. Nowadays the universities here produce mostly standardized java coders with untrained technical imagination. Or was it always so? We should really start hunting for some tech weirdos out there.

Yea, and we definitely need a stripper girl to check Angrypig's code and make him the coffee :D
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: BenDragon on August 01, 2011, 03:43:23 pm
Post removed
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jheuloh on August 03, 2011, 12:45:35 pm
Quote from: ZeosPantera
Step 1. Start selling outerra

*Patiently awaits the day.*

Quote from: ZeosPantera
Step 3. Blow money on Strippers and Coding Staff

 :lol:
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: BlankCache on December 19, 2011, 04:49:09 pm
My idea is to have the flight/drive sim you displayed in your videos along with some sort of building aspect. The ability to fly or drive to a remote area and build something as simple as a log cabin would be epic in my eyes. If lots of people did this it might progress into small villages , then towns, cities ,etc...  Slowly introducing tools as are needed would allow the users to become the creators. Let everyone go and see what happens ;D
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: TheChippedFlywheel on December 28, 2011, 06:28:20 pm
hello there. First post for me.

I have a question. What are the reasonable fps for this thing. I am running a reasonable laptop, and I play Rigs of Rods... and I have a feeling a lot of you do also. I get about one hundred twenty frames on flatmap, no vehicle, caelum on, triscopic rendering, mirrors and dash. I just don't want to kill my laptop...

Also, I was thinking of people having their own land would be pretty cool. Some people could construct roads and such. (seeing I am in New England US, I could maybe build the roads I use around my house.) And other people  could do the same.

Sound... YES!

A flight simulator is a must, as with land, you need mobility!

Any thoughts for a naval sim? I like boats, but don't go out of the way to make them... they are not that important to me.

I am truly thinking of just a purposeless game. Maybe just have people start businesses in little groups for fun. Make it so that people interact, get in game money, transport things, buy vehicles, just fun stuff. I really like the look of the game so far. Thanks for reading and considering!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: andremelyanov on January 01, 2012, 01:26:46 pm
Hello guys.
I got one idea.
Have you ever thought about creating MMO game about II or III world war, for example like battleground europe or ArmA, would be really cool. Especially when would play a lot of people. It will be a good to teamplay with friends and some cooperation of ground, naval and air forces. I have some expirience of playing those games like ArmA and battleground europe. And i think it will be interesting to many people who play similar games.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: DarkDXZ on January 01, 2012, 02:38:50 pm
Hello guys.
I got one idea.
Have you ever thought about creating MMO game about II or III world war, for example like battleground europe or ArmA, would be really cool. Especially when would play a lot of people. It will be a good to teamplay with friends and some cooperation of ground, naval and air forces. I have some expirience of playing those games like ArmA and battleground europe. And i think it will be interesting to many people who play similar games.

That would, in fact, be a good idea if executed  properly. We don't want another BFH here. :)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: andremelyanov on January 01, 2012, 03:27:42 pm

That would, in fact, be a good idea if executed  properly. We don't want another BFH here. :)
Thank you for read my idea :D
I'm not talking about what to do following the example of BFH. Just something like this, in terms of the game where there is interaction between the players.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: DarkDXZ on January 02, 2012, 10:33:34 am

That would, in fact, be a good idea if executed  properly. We don't want another BFH here. :)
Thank you for read my idea :D
I'm not talking about what to do following the example of BFH. Just something like this, in terms of the game where there is interaction between the players.

I think I know how it would look like:
Instead of levels, you would gain ranks in your army (army = clan?), like private, lieutenant, general...Your HP would NEVER change, so general would die as quickly as a private would - of course, it's actually dependant on armor (bulletproof vests etc.) and weapons...

That would be something really exciting and fun, as opposed to...Something I'm not going to say...
(who else is eager to get to the choppa?)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Oldtown on February 29, 2012, 02:46:45 pm
Has anybody thought about the fact that a Rally Dakar is now possible in realtime? That would be so cool!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jagerbomber on February 29, 2012, 03:24:04 pm
Oh my god, how about the Baja races!  ;D
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Oldtown on February 29, 2012, 03:37:03 pm
We'll meet in virtual California  8) BAJA 500 race 2011 Highlight Video **SLIMEHD** (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5BDtKdNATo#ws)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 29, 2012, 04:07:06 pm
The biggest "TA DA" moment was when I realized you could have the indy500 happening in Indianapolis and at the same time across the globe elite military units could be fighting insurgents all in true to life scale and one would never effect the other.

All that while there was sailboat racing in Japan and drug running in Brazil.

THAT is why I want fast travel disabled in the game game. Because everything going on in the real world could be happening in OT in real time. If everyone had the "jumper" ability it wouldn't be real enough.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: mctash on February 29, 2012, 05:10:33 pm
As long as I can push Mach 2 in my f-16 i'll be happy. Hmm..... first im going to need an f-16 :)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Oldtown on February 29, 2012, 05:23:01 pm
As long as I can push Mach 2 in my f-16 i'll be happy. Hmm..... first im going to need an f-16 :)

You go Mach 2 ... i want my Ju-52 :D Unbelievable but all this doesn't seem too far away. Outerra makes me smile again after a very sad long time ...
IL-2 Cliffs of Dover ... i payed 50€ for an Alpha Version
FSX ... not bad but hardcore System Specs and still what I expected ...
DCS-Sims ... looks cool but maybe a bit too much sim for me
Whats left? Outerra go go go!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jagerbomber on February 29, 2012, 10:25:15 pm
THAT is why I want fast travel disabled in the game game. Because everything going on in the real world could be happening in OT in real time. If everyone had the "jumper" ability it wouldn't be real enough.

I agree.

Though how do you think "construction" should work?  Still UFO camera, but with a slower speed than it has now?  Or some other method perhaps with no free flying camera at all?
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on February 29, 2012, 11:13:05 pm
Having some sort of mode change to put you in construction view. Nobody would need to make a road and jump 10,000 points front and back. And even if they did it is only the view. The player model should stay wherever it was when the road tool was activated.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Oldtown on March 01, 2012, 01:30:23 am
So we better start thinking about virtual airlines so we can travel bigger distances :D :D
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: schnell on March 07, 2012, 08:40:14 pm
base jump in this engine   ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: PytonPago on March 20, 2012, 07:17:10 am
Having some sort of mode change to put you in construction view. Nobody would need to make a road and jump 10,000 points front and back. And even if they did it is only the view. The player model should stay wherever it was when the road tool was activated.

Something like in Hidden and Dangerous 2 - play and tactical view ... ? Cloud be an interesting combination in making the same thing in different hight´s not only for building, but for area-owerview, game-depended reasons too ... actually the skyrim way would be an interesting one for this engine (only: - just speed-up change of the camerra possition/heading to the height associated with the mentioned functions with maybe some limited angles of view).
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jagerbomber on March 24, 2012, 06:24:19 pm
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o 8)
Glacier Bike Downhill Saas Fee 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I5WXkbOzSA#)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: schnell on March 24, 2012, 08:48:20 pm
the posibility of do this Wingsuit Basejumping - The Need 4 Speed: The Art of Flight (http://vimeo.com/18150336)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Foxiol on April 02, 2012, 07:13:10 pm
I am not too much for ideas but yes for add features that i saw in other engines that i am used to it.

I use Cryengine 2 and 3 a lot for my personal and novice creations or maps not even mods (i made my country in a 4 by 4 km size and created some buildings just using solids from the engine itself because i don´t even know how to use Maya or Autodesk, etc, mostly because my main language is Spanish and Cryengine is in English and the technical words are hard to understand for me and never learned how to use those programs and the worst part is that i have Autodesk and never touch it...so yes i am a noob in so many senses lol but i try to learn on my free times using common sense and test/error of course).

So Cameni just take a look in how Cryengine works because for my point of view it is a friendly user engine with cool and simple tools for add whatever you want or place objects, etc.

An cool idea for a presentation of Outerra engine could be something a little bit "special" and more for the masses and not just for "a couple" of people who likes flight or other kind of simulation.

If you add the Moon i am thinking about the mission of the Apollo 11 to the Moon. Imagine giving the opportunity for people to launch in the Apollo 11 from Cape Canaveral and all the way to the Moon watching the same sequences in a first person perspective (also with the same views as everyone remember). Watching how the Moon is getting closer and closer and then landing in it using the same views as in the real video could be great. And then when you arrive you can see the entire Earth from there with incredible quality. ;)

Of course you have to recreate the launch platform, Saturn 5 rocket,the Apollo 11, the lunar module, particle effects, clouds, the Moon, the exact distance from Earth and more...lot of work of course.

But i think as a presentation would be fantastic...imagine those people who tried to recreate it in flight simulators or just using CGI but now having the opportunity to interact and see it on fully glory. And of course this is going to show the real potential of the engine.     

I found things similar in you tube but always with the same result...or bad quality simulations as this:  Apollo 11 Launch Using Orbiter Flight Simulator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4fudCcykGk#) ; or more or less what i want to see but again i can count the pixels lol : Flight to Moon (part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwl6jPO5rS0#)

You can find videos of the actual launch and the Moon landing on you tube + fotos. (i can search that for you if you take this in consideration with no problems at all)

Of course when you want to show the potential of the overall engine you need tons of material. Add some vehicle "samples" to show how physics works in different situations (land, air, water and space in this case but mixed with the sense of gravity that the landing is giving to you -it is more like a shake feeling of course-)

This engine is capable for everything in my eyes now and i can think in more things. 
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: A7M16 on April 18, 2012, 02:38:50 am
I think it would be neat if you did like a super real physics sim combat survival game where you join a world with other players and can cut down trees and cut logs to make a log cabin something kinda like minecraft (only not blocky at all and doesn't look like crap (graphical wise) but über (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber)) realistic survival sandbox  with like bugs and wildlife. You would also have the ability to kinda progress through the ages like being able to forge metal and work steel, make guns or swords, crap like that (basically put life into a computer game (i would pay a lot for that)).

But what ever you do it has to have full destructibility like i want to be able to crash my plane (since it seems like most people want a flight sim.   Although i think a physics game, mil sim, or some space thing would be better)  I want to crash my plane into the ground and see dirt fly up and a crater form as the plane realistically rips to peaces.   

Now I probably have way to high expectations but that would be the only flight sim i would buy and i would love it!
Unless yall did like a realistic combat flight sim like aces High (http://www.hitechcreations.com/ (http://www.hitechcreations.com/)) which is super realistic in the plane destructibility department but it sucks butt in the land and water graphical department but i doubt that would happen and if yall did, it would be where you have to buy a subscription like you have to in Aces High which is why i don't play Aces High ("$14.95 U.S. per month (Texas residents add 7.25% sales tax)." (Lucky me))
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on April 18, 2012, 11:05:09 am
I just want to see this engine...  but with the playability of "Shore of Hazeron". Its my favorite game right now, and its not even stable. Shores is one of those games that you can goto any planet etc etc. I can only imagine what it would be like with the Outerra Engine.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Majority on May 18, 2012, 11:32:05 pm
For Internet video Sharing we have: Youtube
For Internet Search Engine we have: Google
For Social Networking Service we have: Facebook
For virtual 3d globe, map and geographical information we have: Google Earth
For Real time Global 3d Render engine! we have: ???


We need a AIO (All in one) real time global 3d Render engine! where you can explore, create and share contents in a 3d Space ONLINE
Create, share and explore galaxies, stars, planets, continents, countries, cities, buildings, houses, rooms, furniture, objects ... online!
multiple camera modes: FPS, 3rd person camera, with your avatar or not
This engine can be used for 3d games, simulators, 3d exploration, 3d presentations (architecture etc...),

think this as a YouTube in 3D!

Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on May 19, 2012, 04:19:45 am
For Internet video Sharing we have: Youtube
For Internet Search Engine we have: Google
For Social Networking Service we have: Facebook
For virtual 3d globe, map and geographical information we have: Google Earth
For Real time Global 3d Render engine! we have: ???


We need a AIO (All in one) real time global 3d Render engine! where you can explore, create and share contents in a 3d Space ONLINE
Create, share and explore galaxies, stars, planets, continents, countries, cities, buildings, houses, rooms, furniture, objects ... online!
multiple camera modes: FPS, 3rd person camera, with your avatar or not
This engine can be used for 3d games, simulators, 3d exploration, 3d presentations (architecture etc...),

think this as a YouTube in 3D!

Hahaha..  its funny you mention all this. I too had a similar thought back a few years ago. What I had been doing is playing the game known as Second Life ( http://secondlife.com (http://secondlife.com) )which does all of what your listing here, with the exception of google earth. You can shop, and even watch youtube videos in game. That's the only thing missing. But a script could talk to Google earth if done right. You can buy and sell your own products on it. Companies like DELL and INTELL and SUN were all involved in it at one time. BAsically, It was WELL KNOWN for shopping. I used to be an official scripting teacher for that game. So I know it very well. :D

I and several others who are old timers do not play any longer since they changed the rules dramatically. Its no longer fun.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Majority on May 19, 2012, 05:00:10 am
For Internet video Sharing we have: Youtube
For Internet Search Engine we have: Google
For Social Networking Service we have: Facebook
For virtual 3d globe, map and geographical information we have: Google Earth
For Real time Global 3d Render engine! we have: ???


We need a AIO (All in one) real time global 3d Render engine! where you can explore, create and share contents in a 3d Space ONLINE
Create, share and explore galaxies, stars, planets, continents, countries, cities, buildings, houses, rooms, furniture, objects ... online!
multiple camera modes: FPS, 3rd person camera, with your avatar or not
This engine can be used for 3d games, simulators, 3d exploration, 3d presentations (architecture etc...),

think this as a YouTube in 3D!

Hahaha..  its funny you mention all this. I too had a similar thought back a few years ago. What I had been doing is playing the game known as Second Life ( http://secondlife.com (http://secondlife.com) )which does all of what your listing here, with the exception of google earth. You can shop, and even watch youtube videos in game. That's the only thing missing. But a script could talk to Google earth if done right. You can buy and sell your own products on it. Companies like DELL and INTELL and SUN were all involved in it at one time. BAsically, It was WELL KNOWN for shopping. I used to be an official scripting teacher for that game. So I know it very well. :D

I and several others who are old timers do not play any longer since they changed the rules dramatically. Its no longer fun.

Second Life is not very good on performance and visuals, in general a horrible real time 3D engine! even GTA San Andreas is way better!
i don't want Outerra be like second Life! Outerra can be better WAY better than that!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on May 19, 2012, 05:33:44 am
Second Life is not very good on performance and visuals, in general a horrible real time 3D engine! even GTA San Andreas is way better!
i don't want Outerra be like second Life! Outerra can be better WAY better than that!

Not trying to defend SL here.. but I can't help myself. Believe it or not, SL CAN look just as good as Outerra. Not sure if you know how to build and script in that game like I do, but I have seen some art work that looks so real in that game that if you took a picture and sent it to someone they would think you snapped a camera on it. IT has the ability to do this. And all with real time shadows and Ambient Occlusion. I have personally tested this very fact. Outerra is still in the early stages and I CAN replicate what outerra is doing in SL. But only on a limited 1 sim scale. Outerra is a whole planet earth, SL is not. That's the only difference. SL looks bad only if people do not put forth the effort to make their sims look good. But some do not realize that you can change your viewer to change your world around you to look any way you want. There are lots of viewers to choose from. I have made my sim look realistic in the Canvas Viewer, that uses the Unity Engine, back a few years ago in Second Life. Linden Labs doesn't use this engine, but a particular viewer did back in the day. My point here is that SL is not limited in any way other then the fact that its on a smaller scale. Visually SL CAN.. and I repeat CAN be stunning visually. SL is AT THIS MOMENT more advanced then Outerra ONLY because you can script it, make your own 3D models in it, and set particles to it among other things. Outerra beats SL in the fact that Outerra can use google earth. SL cannot.

I'm seriously not trying to argue here. I can also understand your opinion and I do respect it. But you obviously have not seen what I have personally seen as to why SL was so popular all these years. It's only within the past two years ( of my writing this ) that SL has majorly died..
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: SpaceFlight on May 19, 2012, 10:04:17 am
@Foxiol
I totally agree, I want to fly to the Moon and to Mars with my rocket or spaceship and I think it is a long term goal of Cameni and Angrypig to put these bodies in the engine.

@A7M16
I like the idea of a survival game. Personally, I am more in favor of a survival game in which you don't have to place every single log to build a house, but it comes down to personal preference in this department. Once people have the option to develop addons/mods for the engine, I am pretty sure a realistic survival game like Wurm/Xsyon will be developed.

Destructible objects and environments are planned as well I think.

@Majority
I agree.
I have tried Second Life in 2005 or so and was not a fan of its graphics then. I watched a few recent videos of it and to me the graphics look very dated.
OT in its current state without much graphical effects applied looks ten times better. And it can render an entire planet.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on May 19, 2012, 11:16:46 am
In case some of you are unaware..  here are two videos to show you what SL looked like back in 2009.

Life is Wonderful: Second Life 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g-NLnMxSyQ#ws)

It's a wonderful Second Life...breathe.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgjneOQ8YY#ws)

These were roughly 4 years ago. SL has improved a LOT since then. And with the newly added ability to upload WHOLE MODELS into the game now you can do pretty much anything. Keep in mind, you cannot compare SL and Outerra. Outerra is a game ENGINE. SL is not. Its using the HAVOC engine. But SL is a complete game or virtual world. The two videos you see are from various sim and sim owners who put some work into it. SL can look as realistic as walking outside. Its just a matter of how good you are at uploading textures that are realistic into the game. And yes you can upload your OWN models and textures and sounds into the game. You can make your avatar as realistic as you want. Including the ability to have sex and have children. I used to even help run a Clinic where "mothers" would give birth. No other game like SL is out there.

The reason I even ventured to bring this up, is because if the playability of SL with the use of the Outerra engine, imagine how good the game could get. Think of SL as one HUGE sandbox, because it is. The reason SL is so limited is because of the design of only using SIMs instead of whole planets. But you have the ability to walk or fly or even take a boat from one sim to another. Its just up to the players on how they want to do it.

Just clarifying for those who didn't know any of this.


Here are REALTIME Per Pixel Shadows back in 2009. Now there is a newer viewer since then that is out known as the Exodus Viewer and it has everything imaginable in it for graphics. But I can't find any videos on it yet that use up to date graphics yet. Although I have personally see it and its just as good as Outerra in the graphics department. I am sure someone might make a HD video on it though.
Second Life Shadows Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4S2gqZaxA0#)

Here is a picture of me in the game. Sorry for picture so small, this forum doesn't allow anything bigger then 128K total. But as you can see, this game has the potential of a full blow high end graphics. Its just a matter of using the correct Viewer as well as knowing how to set it up. And then there is the matter of if you want to make your sim look realistic, you can, you just have to know how.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Stepback on May 23, 2012, 01:10:43 pm
Good evening.
For a long time watching the progress of the project Outerra, I like everything in this project, it is stunning, graffike, like your I have never seen anywhere else, other games / simulations, and did not stand next to your project. What, exactly, I want to offer. I am very passionate about aviation and will soon become a pilot at the moment I'm flying in the simulator, called Microsoft Flight Simulation X, so that's out there and graffika level of implementation of the Earth's surface there is very low. After watching your videos, I'm just eager to so that you have created a simulator and realistic as possible in terms of aircraft dynamics and physics in general. I very much want the aircraft behaved the most realistic in various weather conditions or accidents. I would like to just see all the airports in the world, as in the simulations, where I am now flying. As well as the ability to install their own aircraft to your simulator. If you create a flight simulator you will fall through at this big jackpot, take my word, thousands and thousands of people are eager to differentiate amongst Quterra as a flight simulator. Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: traumstrand5 on May 24, 2012, 08:08:09 am
Good evening.
For a long time watching the progress of the project Outerra, I like everything in this project, it is stunning, graffike, like your I have never seen anywhere else, other games / simulations, and did not stand next to your project. What, exactly, I want to offer. I am very passionate about aviation and will soon become a pilot at the moment I'm flying in the simulator, called Microsoft Flight Simulation X, so that's out there and graffika level of implementation of the Earth's surface there is very low. After watching your videos, I'm just eager to so that you have created a simulator and realistic as possible in terms of aircraft dynamics and physics in general. I very much want the aircraft behaved the most realistic in various weather conditions or accidents. I would like to just see all the airports in the world, as in the simulations, where I am now flying. As well as the ability to install their own aircraft to your simulator. If you create a flight simulator you will fall through at this big jackpot, take my word, thousands and thousands of people are eager to differentiate amongst Quterra as a flight simulator. Thank you. :)

There are a lot of flightsim enthusiats (including myself) around here at the forums actually!
There even was some poll going on a little while ago, where flightsimmers did show their common interest to at least have a "flightsimming option" available for/within Outerra!
Though i am not sure how exactly Outerra will look like once it is almost finished, because i am sure there will always be some updates and work in progress following - But when keeping in mind all this great and interesting stuff that is being discussed around the forums here, i am very, very confident that Outerra will certainly offer a virtual environment where flightsimmers will definitely feel home!  ;) :)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on May 24, 2012, 12:28:11 pm
Good evening.
For a long time watching the progress of the project Outerra, I like everything in this project, it is stunning, graffike, like your I have never seen anywhere else, other games / simulations, and did not stand next to your project. What, exactly, I want to offer. I am very passionate about aviation and will soon become a pilot at the moment I'm flying in the simulator, called Microsoft Flight Simulation X, so that's out there and graffika level of implementation of the Earth's surface there is very low. After watching your videos, I'm just eager to so that you have created a simulator and realistic as possible in terms of aircraft dynamics and physics in general. I very much want the aircraft behaved the most realistic in various weather conditions or accidents. I would like to just see all the airports in the world, as in the simulations, where I am now flying. As well as the ability to install their own aircraft to your simulator. If you create a flight simulator you will fall through at this big jackpot, take my word, thousands and thousands of people are eager to differentiate amongst Quterra as a flight simulator. Thank you. :)

There are a lot of flightsim enthusiats (including myself) around here at the forums actually!
There even was some poll going on a little while ago, where flightsimmers did show their common interest to at least have a "flightsimming option" available for/within Outerra!
Though i am not sure how exactly Outerra will look like once it is almost finished, because i am sure there will always be some updates and work in progress following - But when keeping in mind all this great and interesting stuff that is being discussed around the forums here, i am very, very confident that Outerra will certainly offer a virtual environment where flightsimmers will definitely feel home!  ;) :)


Actually, Anteworld looks like its going to be a Flight SIM game. The Outerra Engine however, can be used for anything. I am hoping to use it as my engine for my crafting game I am wanting to create.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: atgcab on June 09, 2012, 06:12:36 pm
Hi,

First of all, congratullations for this beautiful program. I've purchased it just a couple of days ago and I'm astonished.

I'm a flightsim enthusiast and a developer for X-Plane FS, and needless to say that outerra terrain and lighting are far more realistic than MFS or X-Plane's. I think that with not too much developement a VFR flightsim (focused on light and simple aircrafts) could developed from outerra. I know I'm not saying anything new...

Besides, another thing that I like about outerra is the idea of seeing the world without anything human or before it was infected by this skin disease called mankind or as it was seen by the first humans,... you name it.

With that in mind, how about a prehistoric game? No cities, no roads,... not that much to add (just some flora and fauna: the more, the better). But, in essence, the main things are there already: you have to survive, you have to fight, you have to move, you have to learn some abilities, and so on... The more accurate, the better (i. e., it would be cool to make silex tools following the levallois technique  :)). A game like skyrim, but without all that "lord of the rings" bullshit (that I love) and 20000 years ago, for example. Something like "Quest for Fire", with that encounter between neanderthals and sapiens...

Just some rough ideas
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Ozybolairy on June 10, 2012, 05:05:01 am
To add to this idea, I like the sound of a game where you start off as cave men and need to build caves/tools to enable the community to hunt to eat or gather food from vegetation. You could then have research elements which allow the community to develop new tools and buildings so we pass through centuries of civilisations up until present day and beyond. Multiplayer would be impressive with communities fighting at different ages. Would be a lot of work, but a good game
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Ice Cold Killa on June 10, 2012, 06:57:17 am
Seeing the potential of the engine, we can say that we can't limit it to just one type of gameplay. We could instead implement all types of game modes such as flight, train, boat etc simulators; RTSes and FPS. If this could be pulled off then the game would be a universal one, gaining a lot of popularity ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: xiong on June 29, 2012, 10:26:48 am
i will have to come back to read this forum later, found too late now pass midnite.

i just say, looking at the videos and pixs, this looks to be by far the best i have seen.

being a engineer for a long time, the potential for this product is limitless. there is no program out there that i know which you can build/design to full scale (life size scale).

recently, i started playing a multi-players online game called "simcountry" and i really wish that game has what you got here to put their 5 worlds on.

if you haven't realize yet, you got something that can be developed into a game or real-life applications.

gotta go to bed, so bookmarked.

thanks
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: vvb on July 29, 2012, 09:12:22 am
Hello there!

I guess most of you have heard that MS had cancelled the flight simulator project:

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/1006601.20120726.Microsoft-cancels-Flight-and-Project-Columbia/ (http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/1006601.20120726.Microsoft-cancels-Flight-and-Project-Columbia/)

In this regard seems the Outerra has got the unique chance to intercept the leading position among flight simulators.

Dear OT-team, please consider that thoroughly. Thank you.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: R.B.E on August 20, 2012, 05:23:46 am
I have an idea, you should try implementing From Dust's(game) fluid physics in.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: traumstrand5 on August 21, 2012, 04:15:42 am
Hello there!

I guess most of you have heard that MS had cancelled the flight simulator project:

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/1006601.20120726.Microsoft-cancels-Flight-and-Project-Columbia/ (http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/1006601.20120726.Microsoft-cancels-Flight-and-Project-Columbia/)

In this regard seems the Outerra has got the unique chance to intercept the leading position among flight simulators.

Dear OT-team, please consider that thoroughly. Thank you.

I am also hoping that the OT-team will seriously keep some focus on generating a flightsimming environment.
Nonetheless:
I am totally aware of the fact though, that OT has to offer by far, far more than just becoming a mere flightsimming-engine.
So: I also really don't want OT to only be another flightsim - not at all!
But honestly:
Although current hardware and all these many 3rd party add-ons which are available for flightsimmers really offer some great flightsimming experiences for either X-plane, FSX, RiseOfFlight or LM's Prepar3D and DCS currently, all of them still lack of a real convincing, accurate and dynamic "world-engine".
Sure and as i just pointed out: It does look overall nice an fine within any of these sims - but compared to what OT looks like even by now and already, all the others mentioned here still appear rather out-dated.
So i am also - and i am sure many other flightsimenthusiasts as well - really hoping that OT will offer a serious flightsimming-option!
But there has been a lot of disussion going on in this forum about that issue anyways.
Therefore:
Let's continue supporting OT and - well:
From time to time raise the "flightsimming-issue" here  ;)
 :)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: CheckMyMoves on September 14, 2012, 09:46:31 am
I did not read entire thread but if it has not been suggested already, The sky could use some animated clouds if possible, is that on the table for the future?
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on September 14, 2012, 11:48:41 am
Yes. Many things are on the table. And the table is HUGE..
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Allan Davidson on December 05, 2012, 11:53:38 pm
3 ideas for Anteworld.

1) Online Multiplayer Colaboration.

2) Human Model

3) 3rd person view!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on December 06, 2012, 12:54:19 am
1, soon


2, there is already

http://i5.minus.com/iW3c5I45D0QD.png (http://i5.minus.com/iW3c5I45D0QD.png)

3, there is already
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Allan Davidson on December 06, 2012, 03:09:31 pm
About my ideas, when multiplayer is avaliable, each one player could have a human model, for you know where your friends are flying around.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: GHAO on February 20, 2013, 12:39:07 pm
Would Outerra be a platform suitable for large multinational companies like Wolkswagen (for instance) to test their vehicles in a virtual state? If the physics was detailed enough, could they actually test individual components? And once they did/if they could, they then could release the test onto a public, still in-game, that can try the product and give feedback. The MNC would pay OT for the public feedback. Because what I see is making stuff in Outerra only requires time, and no money, whereas making an engine, or even a particle accelerator, in real-life costs a heck of a lot. Outerra could perhaps be a platform for this sort of thing. Will the physics be detailed enough?
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: skyguy757 on March 17, 2013, 06:11:08 am
I was wondering about physics and how objects would interact in the Outerra world. For example a truck crashing into a tree, Would the truck take physical damage, would the tree splinter or fall? I know of a game y'all might have heard of called Rigs of Rods, it has some simple but amusing crash physics. Would we see any of this in Outerra or Anteworld?  :)

 http://www.rigsofrods.com/content/ (http://www.rigsofrods.com/content/)
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on March 18, 2013, 04:00:00 am
Damage modeling can be built on top of the engine in a variety of forms and degrees of realism. We've been even talking with the RoR guys back some time ago about the possibility to include bean physics into OT, but the technologies weren't ready for that. But I guess some time in the future some form of such physics will make it into OT.
Title: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Darren on June 18, 2013, 04:32:49 pm
Hello,

My ideas.

1) UFO invasion (you are the Alien) and cause terror and destruction on earth, in space ship and on foot. Whilst evading military,  etc.
2) Complete cities, town and roads for 'real driving' on real road. think GTA + Race 07 + TDU, but more sim-like.
3) Super hero - travel the world save people, have enemies thing super man etc etc
4) Ancient battles - with the titans




Improvements:

- trackir support
- jumping
- varied trees, plants and animal for each region
- more futuristic

Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: UR67393 on August 13, 2013, 07:13:51 pm
Hello I have a short and not ordinary question to the developers of OT: can You remake parts of "Flight Gear" flight simulator as basic flight simulator add-in for OT? In this case the remake will be faster and easier for OT developers, because "Flight Gear" flight simulator have open program codes, and open program codes of FG very need for many creators of addons which make own addons for flight simulator.  If JSBsim was integrated in to OT may be will better integrated parts of "Flight Gear" flight simulator into OT too? I think it good idea for all, isn`it? :)  We all will be enjoy of FG into OT.   What is opinion of OT`s developers? Thank You in advanced. Best Regards!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: cameni on August 14, 2013, 04:49:56 am
Two main problems:
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: UR67393 on August 14, 2013, 06:44:34 pm
Two main problems:
  • there are large architectural differences, only some of the components could be integrated into OT, and they would have to be largely adapted to the new environment, in some cases it would be better to start from scratch
  • legal aspect: JSBSim has a permissible license (LGPL) that allows us to link with it, but FG generally doesn't
I am understood, thank You. All the best!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: UR67393 on September 21, 2013, 02:13:24 pm
Previously read messages from FreeTrack users noticeably loads powerful PC. I do not know whether such information is reliable. As far as I know Free Track has not been updated for a long time(FT- live?). And optimized OT working with Free Track can significantly lose at FPS ...
There is another similar FW projects called FaceTrackNoIR (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm)) This device unknown to me in action. May be FaceTrackNoIR  will be yet by alternative after the necessary improvements? In generally Is it possible to adapt iFaceTrackNoIR for the OT that there is no loss in FPS? This is very important for OT, as You know(!). What is opinion of OT developers? Which Your answer?
Thank You.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Evildropbear on November 19, 2013, 12:59:14 pm
I'm curious about the audio development in this engine?

Will it support reverb/echo/Sound Propagation?

Something like this: (skip to 2:14, although whole video is worth a watch)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRmi5YfwuM#t=114 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRmi5YfwuM#t=114)

Another example (skip to 1:38): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQt1jtDBNK4#t=98 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQt1jtDBNK4#t=98)

Would be really cool to hear when a plane flying behind a mountain, or a truck behind a large rock, or in a canyon.

Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: ZeosPantera on November 19, 2013, 02:31:06 pm
I like that effect. It may be a BIT strong but certainly better to start with then standard source sound.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: JackDawson on November 19, 2013, 05:55:24 pm
I completely forgot about this thread and project. I just got a notice in my email that people still exist here. LOL

Hope Outerra crew is doing well. Guess I'll have to peek in and see what updates there have been.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: PytonPago on November 20, 2013, 01:33:15 am
Hmm ... may be a little tricky to interact with imported (mainly buildings) objects ... maybe it could use collision meshes for sound wave reflection and refraction. Doe, a way to integrate our own mesh surfaces for this purpose (or just pick from a menu like the vehicle importer has for bones) had to be there too, as people may want to create special acoustic places ... and hillside acoustics may be a big problem too.???
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Evildropbear on December 05, 2013, 07:18:18 am
Have you guys visited reddit.com/r/simulate ? Awesome stuff gets posted there all the time, today I came across this: Real-Time Rendering and Animation of Trees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjZc9ayGlaM#ws)
http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/research/publications/2007/Habel_2007_RTT/ (http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/research/publications/2007/Habel_2007_RTT/)
http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/research/publications/2009/Habel_09_PGT/ (http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/research/publications/2009/Habel_09_PGT/)

Its pretty old (2007), so maybe there are already better technique, but I have never seen anything like it in games (Crysis comes close I guess).

I'm not sure what the current plans for trees are (beyond 3d models), but I would like to see something similar.

That being said, I just came back from playing Assassins Creed Black Flag, and now eagerly await the next Ocean update so I can sail my pirate ship across the rough Seven Seas of Outerra  :D

But I also have a suggestion, or rather a tweak. The max grass render length is 50 in the menu, but my personal testing I find the optimum value 150. But every time I enter the menu it resets it to 50, can you change the max slider to 200 or something.
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Jagerbomber on December 05, 2013, 05:14:58 pm
Pretty sure that video was actually posted already.

Don't ask me to find it.  :P
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: UR67393 on January 04, 2014, 09:34:38 am
Have you guys visited reddit.com/r/simulate ? Awesome stuff gets posted there all the time, today I came across this: ...
Thank you. This animation of vegetation is very necessary and important to simulate primarily the aero visual flights- VFR(and for instrumental too- IFR), for visually determine the speed and wind direction, as example. 
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: PytonPago on January 04, 2014, 10:18:15 am
Previously read messages from FreeTrack users noticeably loads powerful PC. I do not know whether such information is reliable. As far as I know Free Track has not been updated for a long time(FT- live?). And optimized OT working with Free Track can significantly lose at FPS ...
There is another similar FW projects called FaceTrackNoIR (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm)) This device unknown to me in action. May be FaceTrackNoIR  will be yet by alternative after the necessary improvements? In generally Is it possible to adapt iFaceTrackNoIR for the OT that there is no loss in FPS? This is very important for OT, as You know(!). What is opinion of OT developers? Which Your answer?
Thank You.

 ... hmm, just rememered - tried FaceTrackNoIR on sisters PC. Limiting is the FPS of the used camera, but yes, CPU does get some juice suck too, but didnt seem as much as feared ... biggest problem is still the tracking system - face recognition. If light on your face goes bad, or prog. doesnt like your facial structure (or simply, youre ugly as me :D ), it may do some unintentional movements or lags. Guess thats the biggest problem, no dark-room action with that baby spinning OT heads around, but - have seen a mention of that thing used in IR. Simply a IR filter at the camerra lense (or IR camerra) and light directed at you. Prog. uses face contours, so other than VIS wavelengths may be used too if optics set properly.

Have you guys visited reddit.com/r/simulate ? Awesome stuff gets posted there all the time, today I came across this: ...

 ... hey, there is the ME-DEM mentioned there ! :D
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: UR67393 on January 04, 2014, 03:36:52 pm
Previously read messages from FreeTrack users noticeably loads powerful PC. I do not know whether such information is reliable. As far as I know Free Track has not been updated for a long time(FT- live?). And optimized OT working with Free Track can significantly lose at FPS ...
There is another similar FW projects called FaceTrackNoIR (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/information_links/download.htm)) This device unknown to me in action. May be FaceTrackNoIR  will be yet by alternative after the necessary improvements? In generally Is it possible to adapt iFaceTrackNoIR for the OT that there is no loss in FPS? This is very important for OT, as You know(!). What is opinion of OT developers? Which Your answer?
Thank You.

 ... hmm, just rememered - tried FaceTrackNoIR on sisters PC. Limiting is the FPS of the used camera, but yes, CPU does get some juice suck too, but didnt seem as much as feared ... biggest problem is still the tracking system - face recognition. If light on your face goes bad, or prog. doesnt like your facial structure (or simply, youre ugly as me :D ), it may do some unintentional movements or lags. Guess thats the biggest problem, no dark-room action with that baby spinning OT heads around, but - have seen a mention of that thing used in IR. Simply a IR filter at the camerra lense (or IR camerra) and light directed at you. Prog. uses face contours, so other than VIS wavelengths may be used too if optics set properly.
Thank You very much. Perhaps in the future FaceTrackNoIR may also be useful for users of OT, FaceTrackNoIR still in development, for improvement...
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Biggy30 on January 05, 2014, 01:19:59 pm
I have and idea , and it's just simple for me but maybe to hard for Outerra team, I don't know, but I think there should be more graphical options in Anteworld...what about an "On foot view distance" option to get less lags for people who don't have a super PC I mean you don't have to display 10 or 20 wads around the player...no ?? Or procedural maps like in Red Dead Redemption or GTA 5 that loads in front of you and unloads behind you at a reasonable viewing distance as you advance.  And what about a "Texture Pack" option that could let you choose from 8 bit graphs to 32x32 textures or 128x128 textures like in Minecraft ?? Would be nice too for "old" PC. And another thing would be nice...but very difficult to achieve I think...a personal world editor...by that I mean choosing the size of the planet and auto generating any kinds of terrain...a bit like minecraft...but with more options like in Sim City Terrain Generator....

Let me know if all that would be possible in near future !!

Thanks and keep up the good work you Outerra Team !!
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: PytonPago on January 05, 2014, 02:46:50 pm
I have and idea , and it's just simple for me but maybe to hard for Outerra team, I don't know, but I think there should be more graphical options in Anteworld...what about an "On foot view distance" option to get less lags for people who don't have a super PC I mean you don't have to display 10 or 20 wads around the player...no ?? Or procedural maps like in Red Dead Redemption or GTA 5 that loads in front of you and unloads behind you at a reasonable viewing distance as you advance.  And what about a "Texture Pack" option that could let you choose from 8 bit graphs to 32x32 textures or 128x128 textures like in Minecraft ?? Would be nice too for "old" PC. And another thing would be nice...but very difficult to achieve I think...a personal world editor...by that I mean choosing the size of the planet and auto generating any kinds of terrain...a bit like minecraft...but with more options like in Sim City Terrain Generator....

Let me know if all that would be possible in near future !!

Thanks and keep up the good work you Outerra Team !!

 ... well, as an "next-gen" like engine, it will push hard to nowadays HW limits to be the tomorrows player ... i think some expansion in graphical options will come, but it will need the main parts of the engine be implemented to set those things right, still already it has a higher plate need in mind ... dont think it will become much more compliant to older machines than it is in these days ... my machine will certainly not live up the days of its finals i say ya. And i speculate in OT on it normally nowadays. Well, maybe ... just maybe. (Intel E7200 duo, 4GRam, GTX275)

On another hand - i know Minecraft is kind of a sensation of its crowd, still cant quite understand its HW needs at lowest option levels ... as it comes to the outcome look of the game itself. Generation of terrain is one thing, and i know it needs some juice, but graphical design (not talking about those fancy HL2-cliffside style water and stuff mods out there) seems a bit - strange. Just strange. Isnt really a nice thing to talk about when graph. options are minded there ... but yes, their developers said it would be so. Still strange.

World generator is one of the latest things to be done. Textures could have some lower res´s, doe other things will hardly go lower, witch maybe makes it a little obsolete. (you have to understand, that biomes arent done, some simple wildlife AI and weather added - that all will take some plus HW juice till its finished - not to mention added objects and driver support from companies for older models (in terms of fixes and newer soft-tech stuff usage/noncrash support) isnt what it used to be).

Also, cant some of the options by set manually in some config file (think it was discussed somewhere) ? That may help instantly ...
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: Biggy30 on January 05, 2014, 04:50:01 pm
Well you're probably right...my computer will die before end of the project...if end will have...'cause imagination is infinite...but you know i'm the kind of guy that thinks about "THE PERFECT GAME EVER !!" , you know, kindda game that will suit all I ever wanted from a game...be able to be...FREE :o...and yesterday I saw that  (VIDEO IS LOOOOOONG BUT WORTH IT): Space Engine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YieL0qK-qCk#ws) and it kicks my wish to the limit !!!

Hope someday rich game businesses (UBIS**T or ... ::)) will take a project so big based on these engine (OT or SE) and make it run on a console (PS4 or XBOX ONE)....... :P

OK enough of all this dreamin !!  :-[

KEEP WORKING YOU GUYS AT OT !!!!   8) ;) :D
Title: Re: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum
Post by: PytonPago on January 06, 2014, 12:35:57 am
Dont know about a commercial BEST GAME EWER project (you know, that kind is against monetary and producer rules)...




 ... im betting on a strong fan and MOD base in that direction ...

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_l8RFaaYmSl47RRtiADI8LU2K3drh-CxL81iq4E2pe-EEvYAU)