Outerra forum

User mods, screenshots & videos => Scenery => Topic started by: Acetone on October 25, 2014, 10:43:35 am

Title: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 25, 2014, 10:43:35 am
Alps Scenery: v.4 - Direct download - Full package (178 mb) (http://www.mediafire.com/download/lm4wng87v36c3w0/Alps__scenery_v3_full.otx)

Alps Scenery: v.4 - Direct download - Update package from v.3(3 mb) (http://www.mediafire.com/download/yhee73aaa13y9pc/Alps__scenery_v4_update.otx)

The package includes objects created by Levi, KW71, newS and Planets.

I've started to work on this before the Alaska scenes, but at the time I wasn't as efficient and as mad than I am today (and a part of it was done even before the map overlay update, and was quite inaccurate. So I've deleted recently all my work on this region to remake it with a higher level of quality.

***

This scene will cover an area located in the south of France, at the edge of the Alps. It will include two airports (LFNA-LFMX) and some local airfields. Even if it's not an urban area, there is more human presence than in the Talkeetna region (so more work for me  ;D). This location is well known among the gliding, parascending and skydiving crowd in Europe.

The region is fairly nice, with a great variety of landscapes and biomes.

Screenshots:

(http://i.imgur.com/y2KxKWV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uT9evrM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jMYuOZq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ma7e6ea.jpg)

v1:

v3:

v4:
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 25, 2014, 12:52:02 pm
Cool!  ;D
 
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: aWac9 on October 25, 2014, 06:35:16 pm
great.  are lucky the French  :)

Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: tknudsen on October 28, 2014, 04:28:05 pm
Looks awesomely
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on November 02, 2014, 10:39:07 am
(http://i.imgur.com/8G2i9RY.jpg)

Some new roads (majority not on screen) but progress is sloooooooow. I need to find more time and motivation for this or it will take years to start looking good!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on November 02, 2014, 11:24:36 am
Hey, after seeing Your Talkeena stuff I gave up my own efforts, simply knowing that I'm not nearly patient enough to replicate that sort of thing with the current tools.

Now, when the streets finally auto merge, and there is a wide-scale flatten tool........

That will be a different story!!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on November 03, 2014, 09:52:42 am
(http://i.imgur.com/tJpDySM.jpg)

And a comparison shot :

(http://i.imgur.com/Op3x0yz.jpg)(http://www.topopyrenees.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/provence-sisteron_030.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on November 03, 2014, 11:17:25 am
One of the things about traditional Flight sims, or other places that try to replicate the real world, is that there are really no databases complete enough to let you do such things automatically. It always comes down to painstaking modification by hand in the end, and no developer has the time or money to do that except in very limited areas.

I think that with Outerra, and the ease of placing objects, roads, paths and probably even waterways, eventually, it may finally come within reach that individuals can easily edit their own cities, towns and neighborhoods; alone or even better, cooperatively around the world. Imagine the possibilities.

If I were Google, I might even be keeping an eye out on Outerras progress. For a number of reasons.

In the meantime, I can barely wait to see OSM in Outerra.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on November 03, 2014, 11:42:16 am
One of the things about traditional Flight sims, or other places that try to replicate the real world, is that there are really no databases complete enough to let you do such things automatically. It always comes down to painstaking modification by hand in the end, and no developer has the time or money to do that except in very limited areas.

I think that with Outerra, and the ease of placing objects, roads, paths and probably even waterways, eventually, it may finally come within reach that individuals can easily edit their own cities, towns and neighborhoods; alone or even better, cooperatively around the world. Imagine the possibilities.

If I were Google, I might even be keeping an eye out on Outerras progress. For a number of reasons.

In the meantime, I can barely wait to see OSM in Outerra.

Yep, autogen may be nice to fill the space, but it generally flatten details. Handcrafting may be slow, but it's the only way to make places look unique.
(yet, I will be really happy if they find a way to import the OSM database at some point :) )
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on November 03, 2014, 12:03:59 pm
Yup. let the big, broad outlines be done automatically, then people can fill in the unique details.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on November 07, 2014, 02:54:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/FPy8dA4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uSNXDb0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/y2KxKWV.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on November 07, 2014, 07:13:29 pm
Da' Roadmaster............  ;D
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on December 04, 2014, 04:20:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/fIlVhcO.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/10KV12d.jpg)

A small gliders airstrip near LFNA. I like this location :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: adler58 on December 21, 2014, 07:32:16 pm
Your work is fantastic, please keep up!
I'm also dreaming when rivers and roads and buildings could be derived from OSM data,
but for now your great work traces a leading line

Those airstrips among trees are pure flight-poetry :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Uriah on December 21, 2014, 08:02:00 pm
Outstanding! Very natural feel to everything you do.

I've found the consistency of roads needs to match their purpose. For example a highway should be more even with wider turns, while a dirt road should be more uneven in width, follow the terrain more closely, (less transition/border) maybe with pull-off areas, as you might expect, and abandoned roads even disappearing in places.

It is amazing the level of detail and precision the OT road system is capable of.

Again, great job Acetone! You should someday record a compilation of videos demonstrating your techniques so beginners have a solid tutorial to start with. It does take time to master these tools and the more people there are producing content the better.

I have a feeling the future of Outerra will be a mix of procedurally generated OSM roads and cities, with detail added by hundreds of users, and different multiplayer servers hosting different scenery.

Edit: Couldn't you also import OSM roads and edit them by hand to add a level of realism. Collaborative multiplayer editing of the OSM data would be the only way to cover vast areas, unless OT advances their procedural civilization scheme considerably, which I can see very possibly happening! :-)

Regards,
Uriah
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on December 22, 2014, 04:39:05 am
Outstanding! Very natural feel to everything you do.
Thanks a lot ! I'm not sure of when LFNA will be ready for release, I have only mapped a few main roads and not placed a single building. And I have a big surprise coming with Talkeetna ;)


Outstanding! Very natural feel to everything you do.

I've found the consistency of roads needs to match their purpose. For example a highway should be more even with wider turns, while a dirt road should be more uneven in width, follow the terrain more closely, (less transition/border) maybe with pull-off areas, as you might expect, and abandoned roads even disappearing in places.

It is amazing the level of detail and precision the OT road system is capable of.

Again, great job Acetone! You should someday record a compilation of videos demonstrating your techniques so beginners have a solid tutorial to start with. It does take time to master these tools and the more people there are producing content the better.

I have a feeling the future of Outerra will be a mix of procedurally generated OSM roads and cities, with detail added by hundreds of users, and different multiplayer servers hosting different scenery.

Edit: Couldn't you also import OSM roads and edit them by hand to add a level of realism. Collaborative multiplayer editing of the OSM data would be the only way to cover vast areas, unless OT advances their procedural civilization scheme considerably, which I can see very possibly happening! :-)

Regards,
Uriah

My roads are following exactly the real world ones, it helps a lot to make them look "natural". Many sims also draw only the main roads, less important ones are generated as simple texture patch with autogen. For Talkeetna, I have mapped every single road, even small private dirt roads leading to an isolated barn :)

I plan to do a series of tutorials, probably in epub/web format. No video, my english accent will probaly be barely understandable  ;D

OSM import is not possible for the moment, and I will love to have a kind of multiplayer editing tool :)
I think hand crafting is necessary to have a good result in scenery. I can't stand anymore autogen scenery, it feels... empty. However, it's impossible to make even a large region by hand only, so the best solution would be OSM import then hand improvements, as you suggested :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: krz9000 on December 22, 2014, 10:33:42 am
openstreetmap integration .... with clever streaming. ....would be so amazing.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on February 05, 2015, 09:11:26 am
(http://i.imgur.com/2dJN6fv.jpg)

Some progress, but the area to cover is very large :)


Edit:

Managed to use the Chapalaka mesh for the Serre-Ponçon Lake (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Serre-poncon-warly.jpg) near LFNA:

(http://i.imgur.com/Dy5vGOw.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on February 06, 2015, 01:53:11 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/uT9evrM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JJj8NVm.jpg)

Tallard. I need to find a castle model.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on February 06, 2015, 06:59:36 pm
I think there are a couple of castles, here.......   http://www.outerramodels.com/halbkreises-castle/
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on February 07, 2015, 04:23:59 am
I think there are a couple of castles, here.......   http://www.outerramodels.com/halbkreises-castle/

(http://www.ville-tallard.fr/typo3temp/pics/1ce84d3775.jpg)

Hum, not exactly the same type, but it could do the thing :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: aWac9 on February 07, 2015, 05:11:48 am
is not the castle of Tallard (mean age) but is similar in style
(https://www.imageshost.eu/images/2015/02/07/chateauTallard.jpg)

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=8a875d1d3edabfca8fa6f6d7834f17a

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search.html?q=ch%C3%A2teau+&backendClass=entity
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on February 08, 2015, 03:54:09 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/8JH69gn.jpg)

It's fun, because I'm starting to get the same satisfaction than I had during Talkeetna developpement. Things are starting to take shape and I now have a few landmarks from wich I can extand the scene. It's better than trying to do everything at once. Depending on the time I can dedicate to it, I expect the full scene developpement to take at least one year, probably more (it's a huge area). And let's not forget there is also other stuff planned ;)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 01, 2015, 03:56:02 am
As far as I can tell, Outerramodels.com seems to have bit the dust. Any info?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Jagerbomber on March 01, 2015, 02:06:39 pm
To outerramods.com!  :))

No offense to whoever created outerramodels.com, but outerramods.com is much cleaner.

Now it just needs to be filled up more.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 01, 2015, 02:47:36 pm
To outerramods.com!  :))

No offense to whoever created outerramodels.com, but outerramods.com is much cleaner.

Now it just needs to be filled up more.

They had a lot of unique items, though.....
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 05, 2015, 08:54:03 am
http://youtu.be/5QpkGVXiNhM

A quick snapshot. Not ready for alpha release, but it's starting to look good :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: M7 on March 05, 2015, 02:49:39 pm
Looking good!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 05, 2015, 03:09:17 pm
Great job, Acetone! Keep on!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 05, 2015, 04:01:41 pm
Great work Acetone, it looks really good!

Off topic: I notice that some lights are messed up on the Cessna in your video. And precisely those who are attached to joints; the rotary beacon light the tail navigation light.
That will happen when you remove the first spawned instance. If you do that, then Outerra must be restarted. It happens with the F-117 as well because some lights are attached to joints...
I really hope that this issue will be solved in the future.

Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 05, 2015, 04:13:41 pm
Thanks everybody!

Off topic: I notice that some lights are messed up on the Cessna in your video. And precisely those who are attached to joints; the rotary beacon light the tail navigation light.
That will happen when you remove the first spawned instance. If you do that, then Outerra must be restarted. It happens with the F-117 as well because some lights are attached to joints...
I really hope that this issue will be solved in the future.


Thanks, good thing to know. I noticed the bug, but since this video was only a quick test, it was not a problem :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 07, 2015, 11:31:49 am
Some improvements here and there.

(http://i.imgur.com/sL113mC.jpg)
Few villages near Tallard

(http://i.imgur.com/yhYuAl9.jpg)
Airport is now more detailed

(http://i.imgur.com/T3mtl7S.jpg)
First Gap area layout. This is not planned soon but it will be the largest urban area I've worked on.

(http://i.imgur.com/WwzA3wg.jpg)
Perfect place for gliders :)

(http://i.imgur.com/IjlANkd.jpg)(http://lenergeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/barrage_serre-poncon_photo1.jpg)
Comparisaon shot of the dam. Need some rework but it's already looking fine :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 07, 2015, 11:49:06 am
Let's put a real dam there, Acetone! Could you tell me the coordinates?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 08, 2015, 05:22:30 am
Let's put a real dam there, Acetone! Could you tell me the coordinates?

Thanks!
Could be possible but the terrain is a problem here (the data elevation will hide most of the bridge). We should probably wait for the 30m elevation dataset :)

However, if you really want to lose time on this, I'm looking for a XIII's century Castle for Tallard :)

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_gQgQ3I7d6E/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/D2Rj1JJ.jpg)

I will send you the .otx anyway, if you want to see the current state of the scene :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 08, 2015, 11:20:03 am
Actually I'm working on a project which takes most of my time. I made the fake bridge to learn about LODs, and it took me only 3 hours. The dam, from the photo I see, would also be simple... but that castle would require more time than I can invest right now.

What if you try to find a free 3d model on the internet, and I could convert it?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 08, 2015, 11:35:27 am
Oh, you can perfectly try the dam, it will be really cool! For the castle it's mostly a joke for myself, since all my attemps to make something with sketchup (either from scratch or by converting) ended up with some ugly bugged madness  =D
I will send you the .otx soon so you can see the location. I'm using the Chapala mesh for the lake, since it's fairly large, it looks better :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 08, 2015, 12:16:18 pm
Oh, you can perfectly try the dam, it will be really cool! For the castle it's mostly a joke for myself, since all my attemps to make something with sketchup (either from scratch or by converting) ended up with some ugly bugged madness  =D
I will send you the .otx soon so you can see the location. I'm using the Chapala mesh for the lake, since it's fairly large, it looks better :)

I wonder it its possible to combine all the water mesh's you have used around talkeetna into one big (Adjusted for earths curvature) supermesh, with no seams.

Obviously the first question is would it even be feasible, but the second is how would Outerra react!!?

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSz6iV4U7mkJNqmuDsGU98Wm8-3mzf7AsmCzrjfiFa0v4hIABYv)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 08, 2015, 02:16:19 pm
Indeed, Chapala mesh takes in account earth's curvature, because is too big.

Here is what I could do: let's wait for the 30m elevation dataset, and I'll figure it out a better solution.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 08, 2015, 08:50:01 pm
To outerramods.com!  :))

No offense to whoever created outerramodels.com, but outerramods.com is much cleaner.

Now it just needs to be filled up more.

Well, being me, I wasn't able to just leave things alone.......

I started checking back at the site periodically, and was eventually rewarded with a strange countdown timer where the site once was.

At the end of that allotted time, the site reappeared........

At this kind of weird web address. http://www.jeffcallawayrealty.com/outerra/
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 09, 2015, 04:32:59 am
I can still see the countdown, though. 14 hours left: http://outerramodels.com/
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 09, 2015, 04:39:28 am
I can still see the countdown, though. 14 hours left: http://outerramodels.com/

Try clicking the link I gave.......

Very interesting.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 09, 2015, 04:57:27 am
Try clicking the link I gave.......

Very interesting.
Yes, I already went there. It seems to be an older version of the site it used to be and just parked on that domain...
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 12, 2015, 12:42:37 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/jt5KaON.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 12, 2015, 12:56:49 pm
Just keep in mind people like me who turn the scenery up. I was glad to find when I maxed out the trees that very few turned up sprouting from the middle of houses, but the dam area did sort of became "The world of the drowning trees."  :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 12, 2015, 01:36:27 pm
Just keep in mind people like me who turn the scenery up. I was glad to find when I maxed out the trees that very few turned up sprouting from the middle of houses, but the dam area did sort of became "The world of the drowning trees."  :)

I've had tooooo much problems in this area wile cleaning the few trees (with normal forest settings) with original material roads :)
If you are curious, just make a large road in the middle of the lake, and yo will see what will happen  =D

More seriously, everything water related can be considered as a placeholder. I will need more advanced tools to handle that without loosing my mental sanity.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 12, 2015, 02:51:39 pm
Just keep in mind people like me who turn the scenery up. I was glad to find when I maxed out the trees that very few turned up sprouting from the middle of houses, but the dam area did sort of became "The world of the drowning trees."  :)

I've had tooooo much problems in this area wile cleaning the few trees (with normal forest settings) with original material roads :)
If you are curious, just make a large road in the middle of the lake, and yo will see what will happen  =D

More seriously, everything water related can be considered as a placeholder. I will need more advanced tools to handle that without loosing my mental sanity.

Lets hope we all get them. I started on a scenery a long time ago, but gave up when I saw yours and realized I could never go that far with just the tools available without going insane.

But I still want to try it. Just with better tools.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 14, 2015, 12:44:19 am
A random question to the open air: Would it be possible to instance Tonywobs library of buildings, and would there be an increase in the efficiency of rendering them (drawcalls) that would make it worthwhile to do so, seeing as LFNA and very likely other projects in the future will probably eventually be using a zillion of them?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 14, 2015, 02:47:57 am
A random question to the open air: Would it be possible to instance Tonywobs library of buildings, and would there be an increase in the efficiency of rendering them (drawcalls) that would make it worthwhile to do so, seeing as LFNA and very likely other projects in the future will probably eventually be using a zillion of them?

What do you mean by instancing?

One thing that could probably help the framerate in large areas is to tie the objects rendering to the terrain quality setting. That way, objects would not be loaded only when their size on screen is larger than x pixels. I'm trying to start a strict model policy around LFNA to keep the resources loaded as low as possible, by only using a limited numbers of packages. I should do a test, but with the current complexity of World2Xplane library, I think you could have ten thousands of these without really impacting a lot the framerate. However terrain quality setting may probably be lowered a bit in heavy urban areas, in order to keep the framerate smooth.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 14, 2015, 03:08:10 am
Pretty much this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb173349%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

I'm almost certain the trees in Outerra are already instanced, and thats why there can be so any of them with so little overhead.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 14, 2015, 03:27:11 am
@HiFlyer,
Outerra is already making use of geometry instancing for separate entities. If you spawn the same object multiple times, the instancing will happen automatically.
Try this: Spawn an object, press Alt+7 (you must have debug_keys enabled in eng.cfg) and look at the number of draw calls. Then spawn the same object again and you'll notice that the number of draw calls will stay the same.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 14, 2015, 03:35:00 am
@HiFlyer,
Outerra is already making use of geometry instancing for separate entities. If you spawn the same object multiple times, the instancing will happen automatically.
Try this: Spawn an object, press Alt+7 (you must have debug_keys enabled in eng.cfg) and look at the number of draw calls. Then spawn the same object again and you'll notice that the number of draw calls will stay the same.

Interesting. Is that for the planes, as well. So that a line of parked planes would show the same number of calls as one?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 14, 2015, 03:35:20 am
Pretty much this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb173349%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

I'm almost certain the trees in Outerra are already instanced, and thats why there can be so any of them with so little overhead.

If I'm not wrong, it's already the case: in Outerra each package (geometry - textures) is only loaded one time in the GPU memory. You can have one or 200 instances of the same object, it will have the same memory footprint. However, global objects polygon count still have an impact, I'm not sure if there is a way to change that. One thing Outerra can't do for the moment, is making possible to resize objects.

Edit:

@HiFlyer,
Outerra is already making use of geometry instancing for separate entities. If you spawn the same object multiple times, the instancing will happen automatically.
Try this: Spawn an object, press Alt+7 (you must have debug_keys enabled in eng.cfg) and look at the number of draw calls. Then spawn the same object again and you'll notice that the number of draw calls will stay the same.

Interesting. Is that for the planes, as well. So that a line of parked planes would show the same number of calls as one?

Yep. But don't forget that the sum of each of these objects geometry still have to be computed to render the image. So spawning a lot of complex objects will still affect the framerate, but not the GPU memory.

LFNA has around 1022 objects in view when you're close to the airport, looking at Tallard, but only 240 draw calls.
Talkeetna uses a lot more different buildings so, 513 in view for 353 draw calls.

When you use the alt+7 tool, only the first instance of the object in a yellow box.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 14, 2015, 03:50:05 am
Pretty much this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb173349%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

I'm almost certain the trees in Outerra are already instanced, and thats why there can be so any of them with so little overhead.

If I'm not wrong, it's already the case: in Outerra each package (geometry - textures) is only loaded one time in the GPU memory. You can have one or 200 instances of the same object, it will have the same memory footprint. However, global objects polygon count still have an impact, I'm not sure if there is a way to change that. One thing Outerra can't do for the moment, is making possible to resize objects.

Edit:

@HiFlyer,
Outerra is already making use of geometry instancing for separate entities. If you spawn the same object multiple times, the instancing will happen automatically.
Try this: Spawn an object, press Alt+7 (you must have debug_keys enabled in eng.cfg) and look at the number of draw calls. Then spawn the same object again and you'll notice that the number of draw calls will stay the same.

Interesting. Is that for the planes, as well. So that a line of parked planes would show the same number of calls as one?

Yep. But don't forget that the sum of each of these objects geometry still have to be computed to render the image. So spawning a lot of complex objects will still affect the framerate, but not the GPU memory.

LFNA has around 1022 objects in view when you're close to the airport, looking at Tallard, but only 240 draw calls.
Talkeetna uses a lot more different buildings so, 513 in view for 353 draw calls.

And essentially framerate is what I was thinking about: Lots of objects, with draw calls mitigated by instancing equals what size city before outerra starts to choke? How will it compare to current sims?

It seems we really have no data, and its something I wonder about.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 14, 2015, 04:09:22 am
Interesting. Is that for the planes, as well. So that a line of parked planes would show the same number of calls as one?
Yes, aircraft, watercraft, ground vehicles, well everything will be instanced if spawned more than one entity, draw calls will stay the same of course.

One thing Outerra can't do for the moment, is making possible to resize objects.
Actually, you can resize the objects, but by script with geometry object interface, using the method set_scale. And can be done in real-time as well.
Here's a quick video I made just for you: :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX0k4b_MOHQ

Yep. But don't forget that the sum of each of these objects geometry still have to be computed to render the image. So spawning a lot of complex objects will still affect the framerate, but not the GPU memory.
Yep, that's right.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: PytonPago on March 14, 2015, 04:37:24 am
OMG ... what the ...  :o
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 14, 2015, 04:53:37 am
OMG ... what the ...  :o
Pretty odd isn't?  :))
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 14, 2015, 07:56:40 am
Actually, you can resize the objects, but by script with geometry object interface, using the method set_scale. And can be done in real-time as well.
Here's a quick video I made just for you: :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX0k4b_MOHQ

Wow, that's... hilarious  =D
Just tell me it's also possible to do the same thing with the mercenary  8)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 14, 2015, 08:19:14 am
Wow, that's... hilarious  =D
Just tell me it's also possible to do the same thing with the mercenary  8)
Yup. Well... almost: :))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8D5l0cWosM
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 14, 2015, 10:02:43 am
Wow, that's... hilarious  =D
Just tell me it's also possible to do the same thing with the mercenary  8)
Yup. Well... almost: :))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8D5l0cWosM

Thank you, that was fantastic  :D
How does it work, a console command?
I have an idea of how this may be used...
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Levi on March 14, 2015, 10:27:57 am
Thank you, that was fantastic  :D
How does it work, a console command?
I have an idea of how this may be used...
It's just a little line of code you write in hero.js, which can be found in /Outerra/scripts/hero.js.

Code: [Select]
this.geom.set_scale({x:1,y:1,z:1});1 is the normal size.

You can place that line either within the function deferred_initialize(){}(after this.geom = this.get_geomob(0);) or within the function update_frame(dt){}.

Have fun! =D
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 14, 2015, 10:28:45 am
Acetone runs off and spawns a massive water table.........
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 14, 2015, 02:16:43 pm
Acetone runs off and spawns a massive water table.........

Nope, I was planning to start a sort of serious recon flight video with the mig at pitch down with upgraded landing lights (100x more power) wich will end up on me facing a giant mercenary head above the clouds  =D
Unfortunately, the LOD distance is the default model one, so when you spawn a really large model, it's not visible (since the default model distance is too far away. Ended up with a bunch of funny screenshots

(http://i.imgur.com/PKaQvX8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h4ueJsT.jpg)
(This one gives me a weird feeling)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 14, 2015, 08:05:44 pm
Acetone, does the camera position scale with the model? Can you walk on OT as a giant?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: PytonPago on March 15, 2015, 03:34:26 am
Oh my ... well, it was to be expected i guess. :D :D
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 15, 2015, 04:23:21 am
Acetone, does the camera position scale with the model? Can you walk on OT as a giant?

Camera is still attached at the same distance of the object, so if it's not too big, you can use the third person view, but first person is mostly impossible to use. Interresting part is that, even if these are a bit cluncky, vehicules physics works :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 16, 2015, 05:12:19 pm
Hmm, I may need a solar panel model at some point (https://www.google.fr/maps/place/La+Saulce/@44.3997604,6.0333216,2795m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x12cb124db6c9cd6b:0x5550dfb5ee92cbdb)

(http://ulmarden.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/IMG_3678b.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 17, 2015, 12:29:54 pm
I can't remember when, but someone wanted to see me how I work on the scenery. I just tried steam broadcast and it seems to work, so if anyone is interested, I can do a 1 hour session at some point.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 17, 2015, 12:33:59 pm
How about record it, with comments?
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 17, 2015, 12:45:28 pm
How about record it, with comments?

Nah, my English accent is crap, I'm more comfortable that way (+ no mic)  :D
I've got only one hard drive, so Outerra videos start to lag after a few minutes of recording, because of the size of the record file.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 20, 2015, 06:43:06 am
Got a few free hours so started a bit of streaming here:

http://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561197998042896/ (http://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561197998042896/)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 21, 2015, 07:12:00 am
Few reference videos, if you want to see how the place look in the real world. As you may notice, outside some flora/geological differences, the only missing element is the fields patchwork (I hope to be able to do these in the future) :)

https://youtu.be/0xX9nfhki14

https://youtu.be/rrCqAdjLjWI

https://youtu.be/0r8gCqK6-fQ

https://youtu.be/aNOSFj5lW4A

https://youtu.be/P91Eg6_dPWY
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: PytonPago on March 21, 2015, 11:52:37 am
 ... hmm, a photo-montage of the same flight in OT, side by side would be interesting.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 24, 2015, 09:06:21 am
Shit... So in case you noticed it, yes, the crash that happened this morning was near this scenery location.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 29, 2015, 06:18:56 am
(http://i.imgur.com/S2NJ5ZA.jpg)

Time to work seriously on the biggest urban area I've ever made for Outerra. See you in hell, pals  8)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 29, 2015, 07:17:32 am
Tonywob has made some serious progress on his implementation of Osm and has pulled together several different datasets to provide coverage of several countries, complete with building placement.

Outerra could save a lot of time in their own use of OSM (if they still intend to do that) by incorporating his work into Outerra, especially as he seems very interested in working on the program. http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/6388-xp-scenery-generator-wip/page-46

(http://s27.postimg.org/gvinnph8j/Alabeo_PA_38_4.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 29, 2015, 07:52:02 am
Yep, his work is incredible, but there are several reasons why Outerra still not use OSM. The following points are purely speculations, from what I know :


I would love to see World2Xplane in Outerra, but I don't think it will happen before some time. However, we don't really know so far how Cameni plans to implement roads/man made stuff, but it may be interesting to see if Tonywob wants to discuss about the technical side of the question here :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 29, 2015, 08:38:14 am
Yep, his work is incredible, but there are several reasons why Outerra still not use OSM. The following points are purely speculations, from what I know :

  • OSM is map based and doesn't have elevation data for vectors. It's not a problem for Xplane, but Outerra render the whole earth in a row and use a slightly different coordinate system. Cameni mentioned at some point he was thinking about updating the road system to remove the elevation coordinates, so the roads may be able to be generated at the ground level, no matter what elevation dataset you are using. This may lead to an easier import of OSM data.
  • The current road system is limited, so I guess they are waiting the updated one to start working on this.
  • The building's ground leveling is competly different in Outerra, it's not a texture but a terrain modification. This may require some adjustments.

I would love to see World2Xplane in Outerra, but I don't think it will happen before some time. However, we don't really know so far how Cameni plans to implement roads/man made stuff, but it may be interesting to see if Tonywob wants to discuss about the technical side of the question here :)

There was actually a thread on Reddit where a user already got OSM to work in Outerra. Never heard from that user again, though.

http://imgur.com/a/9IB3y#0

I also see the occasional web video where Osm is incorporated into procedural maps, usually in Unity. I suspect most of the tech is there, and its more a matter of resources and time than anything else.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 29, 2015, 09:02:52 am
Oh, completely forgot this one! He found a way to convert the OSM buildings (in a single massive model) but he hand placed the roads.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I've already seen OSM buildings shape in a test video of Outerra :

(http://i.imgur.com/MBX6B0r.png)
(crappy quality)

And the related OSM map :
(http://i.imgur.com/zyMk06J.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 29, 2015, 09:58:24 am
(http://i.imgur.com/IQjyFvD.jpg)

It's a good start.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: cameni on March 29, 2015, 10:29:26 am
I also see the occasional web video where Osm is incorporated into procedural maps, usually in Unity. I suspect most of the tech is there, and its more a matter of resources and time than anything else.
As an imported geometry, I suppose, not that the import data are converted into "proceduralness". Even if it was possible, each procedural approach is different, so the tech isn't there to be simply cloned.

We are working on a generic vector data importer, not just for OSM but also for other data and for Titan's use, when their customers need to be able to use their own data. Once the importer works, it will be possible for others to import roads and buildings and land vector data etc. However, the process is a bit different because of OT's need for some extra data for continuous refinement and ground level detail.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 29, 2015, 12:28:39 pm
Thanks for that information, Cameni!

@Acetone: When placing buildings,, have you gotten familiar enough with which building is which that you can pull the correct match right away, or do you do trial and error until you find one that fits?

When working with buildings, I find the current names and selection process not very informative, so I wonder how the heck you do it!!

If you've learned them all by heart, you have even more admiration from me!  =D
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 29, 2015, 01:21:40 pm
We are working on a generic vector data importer, not just for OSM but also for other data and for Titan's use, when their customers need to be able to use their own data. Once the importer works, it will be possible for others to import roads and buildings and land vector data etc. However, the process is a bit different because of OT's need for some extra data for continuous refinement and ground level detail.

Good news :)


@Acetone: When placing buildings,, have you gotten familiar enough with which building is which that you can pull the correct match right away, or do you do trial and error until you find one that fits?

When working with buildings, I find the current names and selection process not very informative, so I wonder how the heck you do it!!
If you've learned them all by heart, you have even more admiration from me!  =D

Actually, World2Xplane models are sorted by size, so it's easy to find what you need. I'm starting to get really used to see what each building is, except for the very large libraries (looking at you germany's buildings). Some others are easy, like the polish set or the Swiss one :)
The only thing I really miss is the possibility to resize the window, to make the list a bit more usefull. Doing custom lists to have only specific sets of buildings could also be useful.
It's only a matter of practice (and a lot of trial and error)  =D
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 29, 2015, 01:30:59 pm
Ouch!

Well, anyway, you are off to an ambitious start! Good luck!  8)

Meanwhile, here is something to dream about.  =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCsj0v-wmIM
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: sniperwolfpk5 on March 30, 2015, 12:11:24 am
This video is incredible. But this video is uploaded one year ago. Where is this team now. I saw all of their videos. There is no info.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 30, 2015, 01:43:57 am
This video is incredible. But this video is uploaded one year ago. Where is this team now. I saw all of their videos. There is no info.

I think these are academic papers/videos created by temporary research collaborations.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 31, 2015, 12:21:53 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/vZRMx6Y.jpg)

Starting to look like a real city center.
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: KW71 on March 31, 2015, 12:45:20 pm
It looks crazy!!!

Great advance from the last screenshot!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on March 31, 2015, 01:45:54 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/vZRMx6Y.jpg)

Starting to look like a real city center.

I hope that it might be possible to place Tonywobs buildings among the class of objects where trees automatically don't grow, as at the tree densities I regularly use there can be significant "penetration" with buildings.

And yes, this scenery does seem to be expanding rapidly! Great job!
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on March 31, 2015, 03:39:46 pm
I hope that it might be possible to place Tonywobs buildings among the class of objects where trees automatically don't grow, as at the tree densities I regularly use there can be significant "penetration" with buildings.

And yes, this scenery does seem to be expanding rapidly! Great job!

Don't worry, these buildings will a leveled terrain, so no trees will appear here, no matter whar forest setting you want to use :-)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 01, 2015, 09:56:44 am
(http://i.imgur.com/lwgpJrf.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 05, 2015, 11:55:29 am
(http://i.imgur.com/AMtYutx.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 05, 2015, 12:23:18 pm
Nice job! I can't even imagine the required patience.......
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 05, 2015, 02:27:59 pm
Nice job! I can't even imagine the required patience.......

Around one hour of work for the small suburb area in this screenshot + various adjustments/improvements in the city itself  :)
Title: Re: [WIP] LFNA-LFMX scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 09, 2015, 02:10:32 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/rm65EgT.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/download/514ilqa99thx25t/Alps_scenery_alpha1_full.otx)

This is a very special tree. A secret tree. It's not like all these other trees. There is something different in this one.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 09, 2015, 02:20:25 pm
Birds nest!!!

Uhmmmmmm........ I give up.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: PytonPago on April 09, 2015, 02:25:40 pm
 ... he´s your favorite hugging tree ... the best talking pal and psychological advisor ... best random-tree noise sleep-song emmiter.   ( ... no kidding, there are such people and one of our nations literary prospects too. And its healthy to go outside in regulary manner. )
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: thx_nb on April 09, 2015, 02:45:42 pm
Hint: click the tree :D.

@Acetone: it really is amazing!
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 09, 2015, 03:01:16 pm
Shhhhhh!  :-X
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: KW71 on April 09, 2015, 03:13:08 pm
Great!!! Alpha test drive tonight!!!

Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: thx_nb on April 09, 2015, 04:39:10 pm
Whoops, sorry. Couldn't not show off that I figured it out (though by accident).
I actually didn't even read your message before clicking on the image (to enlarge).

But again, it's just great to play around in this area. Don't know how you do it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 09, 2015, 04:55:40 pm
Whoops, sorry. Couldn't not show off that I figured it out (though by accident).
I actually didn't even read your message before clicking on the image (to enlarge).

But again, it's just great to play around in this area. Don't know how you do it.

No worries, without your clue people may have started to think that I was turning crazy  :)

The forum is just too quiet and I tough (even if I consider the first step of this work not finished), that it would be interesting to (discretely) share some stuff.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 09, 2015, 05:21:09 pm
At the same time its so quiet people are joining at a high rate, I suspect due to a post and video from Reddit/Oculus.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 11, 2015, 12:39:06 pm
So, 33 beta-testers :)

Any feedback? No framerate problems, silly buildings, weird roads?
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: PytonPago on April 11, 2015, 03:39:04 pm
 ... just waiting for the whole Europe to be done.  =D
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: krcm1981 on April 11, 2015, 03:52:45 pm
I've run the scenery through the ringer a few times from 40k to 0ft, morning, day, night, at speed and slow, I have had no issues at all with textures, misplace items, terrain issues conflicting with trees, roads, bldgs, airports.....
Not a single issue I could find. Some bldgs are sunk into the ground on some hills but that's to be expected with the Outerra engine, not bad enough to warrant a fix, just looks like some are built into sloping ground. Load times are super fast. Looks over all great and just incredibly beautiful job you have done. I look forward to the complete scenery.
Keep up the great work
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 11, 2015, 04:09:42 pm
Some bldgs are sunk into the ground on some hills but that's to be expected with the Outerra engine, not bad enough to warrant a fix, just looks like some are built into sloping ground.

Ok, this one is normal (for the big city at least), I haven't leveled the terrain for these yet. It will be done at some point, because it will also help to remove trees for those who are using different forest settings.

Thanks for the feedback :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 11, 2015, 07:39:10 pm
Yep, since its gotten so quiet, I have been checking other things, but except for the already mentioned buildings, there is nothing bad to report. In fact the recent update seems to have added a bit of efficiency to Outerra, so I have actually notched things up a bit.

The Alps area is fine. Still slight hesitations near Talkeetna. I'm beginning to doubt I will ever find out why.

By the way, in the full Talkeetna download, I think you may have missed this: World2XPlane > houses > EU > AT

Was getting a warning that it didn't exist.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 12, 2015, 03:10:56 am
Quote
Still slight hesitations near Talkeetna.

Talkeetna use too much different models for a single location, too much detailed for this purpose too. As a result, it's not optimized as LFNA is, because the engine have to load/unload complex packages all the time. In LFNA, the model set is the same for all the scene, so Outerra doesn't have to load anything except the World2Xplane ones. And of course, these are really simple objects.

Quote

By the way, in the full Talkeetna download, I think you may have missed this: World2XPlane > houses > EU > AT

Thanks, I need to go back to Talkeetna at some point and fix a few things (and add KW71 bridges...)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: 2eyed on April 12, 2015, 07:08:42 am
Great job, Acetone! You have surpassed yourself with this scenery!

It would be nice to have tree objects to plant (even if they are only billboards) to make avenue roads or parks or things like that.
It's a pity, texture resolution from buildings does not quite match world detail.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 12, 2015, 10:36:04 am
Thanks 2eyed :)

So, nobody sees the huge road spike at the north of Gap (the big city)?

(http://i.imgur.com/vwpLmWx.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 12, 2015, 11:38:52 am
Nope. And they are not called road spikes. They are orbital towers. say it with me slowly....
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: krcm1981 on April 12, 2015, 11:57:11 am
I didn't see anything as noticeable as that. I'll see if I can't replicate it in a few minutes but something like that would definitely caught my attention as the big city is where I spent the most time flying around. Will report back shortly, but my guess is it's not there.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 12, 2015, 12:10:50 pm
Ok, searching very carefully, I found it. It appears to be invisible from most angles, though........
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: krcm1981 on April 12, 2015, 12:36:01 pm
I was wrong, Yes it is there but like the poster said above it is invisible until you hit just the right spot, then it pops in to view, I will continue to fly around a lot more keeping an eye out for things but still over all great job on your work.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: krcm1981 on April 12, 2015, 12:54:55 pm
If you take off heading south from the airport(near the big city), go past the lake there is a large hill to the south of the lake, on the other side of that hill is a road,look on that road( towards your front left front) there is another tower, not as tall. I Don't know how to take a picture of its location in the oculus.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 12, 2015, 01:29:55 pm
If you take off heading south from the airport(near the big city), go past the lake there is a large hill to the south of the lake, on the other side of that hill is a road,look on that road( towards your front left front) there is another tower, not as tall. I Don't know how to take a picture of its location in the oculus.

Yep, that's an other one :)
I already fixed several of these before but it require to destroy the local road data so it may be more difficult for these (longer roads). I will find a solution :)

Thanks guys :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: M7 on April 12, 2015, 03:56:19 pm
Have you tried to delete a couple of node on each side of the spike and at the spike itself, and then recreate them?
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: tknudsen on April 12, 2015, 10:31:29 pm
Very cool
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 12, 2015, 11:54:03 pm
Hopefully the issue of spikes is one of those attacked in the new road system.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: PytonPago on April 13, 2015, 02:48:42 am
Hopefully the issue of spikes is one of those attacked in the new road system.

 ... im sure of it ... once they will be able to generate roads from open data on global scale, it would be a needle-ball if not.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 13, 2015, 04:16:00 am
Hopefully the issue of spikes is one of those attacked in the new road system.

They are aware of the issue for a while and this problem should be fixed with the new road system (it's the result of a limitation of the current one). It happens a lot in this area, I'm not sure why, especially around the lake.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: krcm1981 on April 18, 2015, 11:58:55 pm
Found another road spike
Lat.
+44*32'47.360"
Lon.
+6*14'58.283"
To the east of the big city and east of the first road spike you listed.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 19, 2015, 05:57:40 am
Thanks :) These two are now kind of corrected, but I have to move some sections of the road which now don't follow exactly the real one.
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 24, 2015, 07:47:24 pm
Thanks :) These two are now kind of corrected, but I have to move some sections of the road which now don't follow exactly the real one.

I've been trying to drive on some of the roads near the dam, for instance, and vehicles get stuck in the air high above the roadway and can't be moved. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 25, 2015, 03:36:01 am
Thanks :) These two are now kind of corrected, but I have to move some sections of the road which now don't follow exactly the real one.

I've been trying to drive on some of the roads near the dam, for instance, and vehicles get stuck in the air high above the roadway and can't be moved. Any suggestions?

Happened to me a few times after jumping out of the road in this area. I'm not sure what the problem is here, maybe a conflict between the original terrain data and the one modified by the road...

Edit: Yep, there is something mess up with the collisions in this place. I'm using a big original material road here to smooth the terrain and create the shape of the dam. For some reason, only the normal terrain is registered by bullet physics vehicles, but the planes react correctly.

(http://i.imgur.com/FvcYBKD.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/BkJC1HC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hNt9JZd.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/ZlO9mKP.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 25, 2015, 03:46:40 pm
The elusive anti gravity drive is discovered in a remote corner of Outerra......
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: KW71 on April 25, 2015, 04:08:08 pm
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/the-x-files-010.jpg?w=650)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 26, 2015, 02:08:29 pm
A small abbey near Tallard. Nice location (Notre-Dame du Laus)
(http://i.imgur.com/rXsCykC.jpg)

Real location:
(http://www.via-alta.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Patrimoine-religieux-Basilique-Notre-Dame-du-Laus.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 26, 2015, 03:59:46 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dVCKNCD.jpg)

What do you think of this? Does it look like a plowed field?
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on April 26, 2015, 04:10:54 pm
Yup.  :D
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: aWac9 on April 26, 2015, 05:01:41 pm
bravo, great
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: KW71 on April 26, 2015, 08:24:49 pm
How you made that piece of land?
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Uriah on April 27, 2015, 02:40:04 am
(http://i.imgur.com/dVCKNCD.jpg)

What do you think of this? Does it look like a plowed field?

Awesome, it looks great! I tried this method for fields and it looks great from the air. It would be awesome to do a large agricultural area using this method and the one you developed for grass fields, and in combination with no markings.

How you made that piece of land?

He is using the Rwy Threshold B-Type markings with Dirt Road (1 track) road type.

(http://i.imgur.com/Byryt9X.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on April 27, 2015, 03:11:13 am

Awesome, it looks great! I tried this method for fields and it looks great from the air. It would be awesome to do a large agricultural area using this method and the one you developed for grass fields, and in combination with no markings.

Yep, I'm happy with the result :) But I think it won't look that good without a lot of variation between the fields. When we will be able to use additionnal custom textures for the roads it may become a better solution. For the moment I can do simple empty fields with the original material and dirt/gravel versions with the markings.
It's interesting to see that it works as a proof of concept :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Alps scenery
Post by: Jagerbomber on April 27, 2015, 03:37:50 pm
lol clever.

Originally I tested out putting multiple dirt paths with tire tracks next to each other.  It tended to kill the framerate though.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on May 06, 2015, 06:21:08 am
First release: v1 - Direct download (86 mb) (http://www.mediafire.com/download/okgouf1747tk1cw/Alps_scenery_v1.otx)

The package includes objects created by Levi, KW71, newS and Planets :)

v1:

I will be less active on this one for a moment, so I figured out it may be interesting to release this version. It's far from being finished, but there is already a fairly large area to visit :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on May 06, 2015, 06:36:18 am
Cool! My eyes always get big when I think of all the fiddly work that must have gone into these sceneries. I 've said it before but i'll say it again: you must be one patient guy!

Thanks again for all you've done.  :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: KW71 on May 06, 2015, 09:12:24 am
Kudos, Acetone!!!

Low level flight this weekend! Thanks a lot!!!
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on May 06, 2015, 10:21:45 am
Thanks guys, I hope it will be a good place for some casual filghts. One advice: get close to the lake first to make the model spawn :)

Cool! My eyes always get big when I think of all the fiddly work that must have gone into these sceneries. I've said it before but i'll say it again: you must be one patient guy!

Interesting fact: if you want to tweak things to the centimeter level, you'd better be really patient :D

(http://i.imgur.com/o7QDiq5.jpg)

Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Jagerbomber on May 06, 2015, 02:19:38 pm
Oh god, trying line those up?... It's enough just trying to make smooth intersections with curved corners at the moment.  =D :facepalm:
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on May 06, 2015, 02:56:27 pm
Oh god, trying line those up?... It's enough just trying to make smooth intersections with curved corners at the moment.  =D :facepalm:

What about making these ones, some slanted, others flat, lining up perfectly? Oh yeah, and most are intersected of course ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/oqWJmOz.jpg)

I'd say it's painfully fun :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on May 06, 2015, 03:53:30 pm
Maybe fun, but impractical on any larger scale. Obviously the controls will have to evolve.

Meanwhile.......

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/screen_1430946254_zpsrbzicnhn.jpg)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Jagerbomber on May 06, 2015, 05:20:15 pm
Haha Not happening.

And that's some crazy stuff...
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on May 06, 2015, 07:21:16 pm
In my head, I imagine the perfect (maybe) scenery creation scheme, where from an overhead view, a designer (maybe with a map overlay) could use a graphics tablet to simply draw roads and rivers, draw tree boundary lines and have them autofill: place houses with a tap of the pen.......
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on May 07, 2015, 03:38:38 am
In my head, I imagine the perfect (maybe) scenery creation scheme, where from an overhead view, a designer (maybe with a map overlay) could use a graphics tablet to simply draw roads and rivers, draw tree boundary lines and have them autofill: place houses with a tap of the pen.......

OSM has already these types of local informations, and I guess we should see it in Outerra at one point, since Titan will probably require a dataset importer. Majority of the editing will probably be handled as dataset preparation in the future, then local editing for stuff requiring high quality details (airports, local POI) depending what you want to do with it. It will probably better to do the type of work you describe inside of OSM, so this will not be exclusive to Outerra but to the other users as well :)

And I can assure you that with a bit of experience, the road tool is really straightforward to use. The area you see in the previous screenshot is a one hour work :)
The only real lacking feature for the moment is the capability to add non linear shapes (areas) in the engine. When it will be possible, and with a bit more specific profiles, even the capability to add custom ones, you can do almost everything.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on May 09, 2015, 06:57:15 am
A documentary about the Alps with a few minutes in the Tallard area:

http://tinyurl.com/q8qqcvd
(I've directly set the video to the good time mark)

You will see the local radio telescopes site (present in the scenery) then a short visit in LFNA with a quick presentation of the Pilatus, an plane used in a lot of skydiving clubs :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on August 31, 2015, 04:55:09 am
Unfortunately, I can't solve the spikes problem in the LFNA area. There are several of these in the lake and one in Gap, and there is no way to fix these. It's probably a road related problem, but even by deleting local roads I couldn't fix the issue  :(
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on August 31, 2015, 07:44:48 am
Unfortunately, I can't solve the spikes problem in the LFNA area. There are several of these in the lake and one in Gap, and there is no way to fix these. It's probably a road related problem, but even by deleting local roads I couldn't fix the issue  :(

Ouch.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on August 31, 2015, 10:58:47 am
Rudeboys buildings and your Talkeetna are a great team! Once roads and other flat areas can auto-merge the whole place will have a really professional veneer.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: cameni on August 31, 2015, 11:00:39 am
Unfortunately, I can't solve the spikes problem in the LFNA area. There are several of these in the lake and one in Gap, and there is no way to fix these. It's probably a road related problem, but even by deleting local roads I couldn't fix the issue  :(

It seems to happen in the case when the road exits through the lowest terrain tile point (and it's not that unusual, the way roads are laid) and continues going down from there. Fixing ...
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on August 31, 2015, 01:38:25 pm
It seems to happen in the case when the road exits through the lowest terrain tile point (and it's not that unusual, the way roads are laid) and continues going down from there. Fixing ...

Yep, actually I found a new way to fix these kind of bugs, at least when I can select the buggy road. In fact, if you increase a bit the nodes elevation around the spikes, the problem will disappear. It's a good workaround, more effective than the previous methods I was using (moving the road or adding more nodes).

I was fixing Awac9's Baikal airport when I found that:

(http://i.imgur.com/lmBM0QZ.jpg)
No change, broken terrain
(http://i.imgur.com/OShdIWY.jpg)
A small (10-20cm) elevation of some nodes, small improvement
(http://i.imgur.com/y1YZ92s.jpg)
Around 1 meter elevation, spikes still visible but the terrain is no longer broken
(http://i.imgur.com/DcSoaxF.jpg)
Almost good
(http://i.imgur.com/bk1eHqk.jpg)
Still need a bit of elevation to clean the last visible crack, but it's almost perfect
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: mekgp on August 31, 2015, 06:48:10 pm
Same thing I was seeing in Chaos Acetone..er...David....er....Acetone!   ;/ ;/

(http://i.imgur.com/lmBM0QZ.jpg)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: John514 on September 24, 2015, 04:28:03 pm
Acetone, remember asking about those Solar Panels?
I can make them for you. Can you give me their place in Google Maps?
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on September 26, 2015, 12:55:15 pm
Are the alps scenery spikes on the radar for repair soon? (In the meanwhile, I'm thinking of them as being put there by a sorceror)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/screen_1443286614_zpsfge3omhh.jpg)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: mekgp on September 26, 2015, 01:12:04 pm
.....pylons for racing!   ;)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on September 26, 2015, 01:14:56 pm
Are the alps scenery spikes on the radar for repair soon? (In the meanwhile, I'm thinking of them as being put there by a sorceror)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/screen_1443286614_zpsfge3omhh.jpg)

Tried a lot of things, unfortunately never managed to fix these. The only solution would be to delete each tile where these appears and remake it from scratch, but since one is in the middle of Tallard...

Nah, you now what ? In fact I will do exactly that. Not now, I'm busy with something else (Soon™), but I will fix this next :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on September 26, 2015, 01:37:16 pm
Sounds like a lot of work........  =|

Think again about if it's worth it then, if so, take your time.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: cameni on September 27, 2015, 01:46:29 am
Do these still need to be remade from scratch? There was a fix and several ones that I tested back then just needed to be selected and built again, though in some cases you needed a restart for full effect.
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on September 27, 2015, 04:43:58 am
Do these still need to be remade from scratch? There was a fix and several ones that I tested back then just needed to be selected and built again, though in some cases you needed a restart for full effect.

All the other roads spikes in various locations were fixed by this update, by simply moving a bit some roads nodes or simply reloading it.
But around LFNA... It's an other story.
Even after having selected and removed all the roads around the spike, it's still here. I can't see if there is a broken road here, one node deep under the ground, an other far in the air, because I can't select anything here.
It's obviously not a terrain bug, because the spikes are not here with an empty cache.

Sounds like a lot of work........  =|

Think again about if it's worth it then, if so, take your time.

It's ok. Buildings are not stored with the roads, so I won't have to replace these :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 20, 2015, 09:01:57 am
Fixed versions, without spikes:

Didn't had the time to redo the roads, it's especially visible in Tallard where several roads are missing.

Fix version, without models
Download v3_update (http://www.mediafire.com/download/545x5ckc3kk68o3/Alps__scenery_v3_update.otx)
Full version
Download v3_full (http://www.mediafire.com/download/lm4wng87v36c3w0/Alps__scenery_v3_full.otx)

I will remake these roads soon, and why not improve the area :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 20, 2015, 10:49:04 am
Thanks a lot!! I was still flying in the area, but those spikes were a shame. Very glad they are gone!
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 20, 2015, 11:00:26 am
The good news is that it's a complete fix, I did several tests and the new roads don't generate bugs anymore, even here. So Cameni's fix is working, it's just that I was not able to locate the buggy/cloned roads creating the spikes here :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 20, 2015, 02:19:16 pm
The good news is that it's a complete fix, I did several tests and the new roads don't generate bugs anymore, even here. So Cameni's fix is working, it's just that I was not able to locate the buggy/cloned roads creating the spikes here :)

I have found at least one remaining spike, though, so it might be good to make a thorough search of the area to make sure you got them all. Some are tricky, only showing up when you are right on top of them and viewing at the correct angle........  =|
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 21, 2015, 03:01:16 am
Could you give me some campos for these ?   :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 21, 2015, 04:09:07 pm
Could you give me some campos for these ?   :)

Every photo sharing site I know of seems to strip the positioning data from a picture........  =|
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 21, 2015, 04:13:17 pm
Could you give me some campos for these ?   :)

Every photo sharing site I know of seems to strip the positioning data from a picture........  =|

Yep, you can send these directly by mail at acetone.ot at gmail.com :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 21, 2015, 04:18:39 pm
Could you give me some campos for these ?   :)

OK  :)

Every photo sharing site I know of seems to strip the positioning data from a picture........  =|

Yep, you can send these directly by mail at acetone.ot at gmail.com :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 22, 2015, 09:04:09 am
Download v4_update (http://www.mediafire.com/download/yhee73aaa13y9pc/Alps__scenery_v4_update.otx)


:)

Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: HiFlyer on October 22, 2015, 11:28:53 am
Download v4_update (http://www.mediafire.com/download/yhee73aaa13y9pc/Alps__scenery_v4_update.otx)

  • Fixed some other spikes
  • Remade the roads in Tallard

:)

Thanks for all your hard work. This area is one of Outerra's showcases, and its great to have it back in fighting trim!  =D
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: StrakanXJ on October 29, 2016, 08:37:51 pm
Hey, just wondering if this still works ok? Is it for earth2? Maybe I am doing something wrong but it auto unpacks with Outerra but the Alps scenery isnt there :(
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: Acetone on October 30, 2016, 05:53:26 am
Hey, just wondering if this still works ok? Is it for earth2? Maybe I am doing something wrong but it auto unpacks with Outerra but the Alps scenery isnt there :(

Works only on earth1, you'll need the old dataset to use this one :)
Title: Re: [Released] Alps scenery
Post by: StrakanXJ on October 30, 2016, 12:41:41 pm
Thank you :)