Outerra forum
User mods, screenshots & videos => Other => Topic started by: HiFlyer on April 30, 2015, 02:47:23 pm
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Whoever they are, they like Outerra......
http://nexgenflightsim.com/dir/
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It looks like a new (possibly big) Flight Sim website bringing together news on a bunch of the new engines. The more eyes on Outerra the better I guess.
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It's weird ... what 3D engine license speak? :o
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Well, it may have been a scam, based around Outerra. After I started posting links, the site disappeared. =|
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Why do you think they are selling anything?... It's a news site....
And one that is now back under heavy construction... ::)
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Well, Nextgenflightsim website is now open for business, looking for admins, forum moderators and members on a site that apparently wants to help organize a kickstarter eventually for..... A next generation flightsim.
They are also looking at candidate engines and Outerra is in the running.
http://nexgenflightsim.com/
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Outerra vs. Unigine vs. Terragen. vs. Unity. .... where can i get popcorn ?
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Outerra vs. Unigine vs. Terragen. vs. Unity. .... where can i get popcorn ?
Movie theater always had the best prices. :P
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Well, Nextgenflightsim website is now open for business, looking for admins, forum moderators and members on a site that apparently wants to help organize a kickstarter eventually for..... A next generation flightsim.
They are also looking at candidate engines and Outerra is in the running.
http://nexgenflightsim.com/
This website is kind of shaddy.
Screaming at your face every page refresh that you should subscribe because no one wants to register yet is... strange. They are also really unclear of what they want to do. It's interesting to do a news site about the potential of several engines for the futur of simulation but saying you are going to launch a kickstarter for it... It's like saying: "hey, we need a better car, give me money so I pay someone else to make the car".
But from what I read in his posts, he seems like an honest guy who wants to see the flightsim world move. Some of his reasons are a bit sad:"As an older flight sim enthusiast I figure I’ve got between 25 and 30 years left on this planet…". I think he just probably overestimate the possibility of a crowd based development :)
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I think he just probably overestimate the possibility of a crowd based development :)
... cant blame him, anyone would like a Chriss Roberts fund-score. :D
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I think he just probably overestimate the possibility of a crowd based development :)
... cant blame him, anyone would like a Chriss Roberts fund-score. :D
Keep in mind, if the mythical Outerra Kickstarter ever appears, they would be appealing to many in the same demographic, initially......
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Btw what are the general thoughts about Dovetail's announcement of FSX successor?
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Btw what are the general thoughts about Dovetail's announcement of FSX successor?
They didn't really announced anything, except that they were working on something for 2016. People are expecting them to use the Flight engine. I just took a look and they are still recruiting people:
Dovetail Games is currently recruiting for a Lead Artist to work as part of our Aviation team delivering the next generation of flight simulation. (mars 31)
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There are parallel tracks to all of this. Dovetail started a thread at Avsim and on the Steam forums requesting input as to what people would like to see in a new Flightsim. Both threads are ongoing, have several thousand views and many, many replies.
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/468225-dtg-what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-new-flight-simulator/
http://steamcommunity.com//app/314160/discussions/1/620712364044485276/#p5
In the meantime, The nextgen Flightsim originator now has two ongoing threads at Avsim, with a high amount of discussion and interest. (and pessimism)
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/467836-bumped-into-this-on-the-web/
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/468499-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-open/
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There are parallel tracks to all of this. Dovetail started a thread at Avsim and on the Steam forums requesting input as to what people would like to see in a new Flightsim. Both threads are ongoing, have several thousand views and many, many replies.
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/468225-dtg-what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-new-flight-simulator/
http://steamcommunity.com//app/314160/discussions/1/620712364044485276/#p5
In the meantime, The nextgen Flightsim originator now has two ongoing threads at Avsim, with a high amount of discussion and interest. (and pessimism)
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/467836-bumped-into-this-on-the-web/
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/468499-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-open/
Thanks :) These threads, especially the Avsim one, are really interesting.
Dovetail is still not giving any hints of their plans. What I find great is that many things that experienced simmers want are compatible with Outerra. I always though that the strong content base on FSX was a key element wihch could hold back the whole scene, but many users are asking for a fresh start in this thread. Performances are also one of the most requested element, 20 fps is not a standard anymore :)
Then, people want tools and an open environment.
Question is, in what direction Dovetail will go? Good thing for them, the Flight fiasco has already make it clear for majority of users that they can't expect a full flight-sim and an improved engine. The key element will be the tools given to the community.
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And of course, I'm in those threads just a' swinging away. Cause' I'm an idiot, of course. =D
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And of course, I'm in those threads just a' swinging away. Cause' I'm an idiot, of course. =D
Hey, your suggestions were great! :)
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And of course, I'm in those threads just a' swinging away. Cause' I'm an idiot, of course. =D
Hey, your suggestions were great! :)
LOL! :)) Thanx!
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This is my opinion..
http://target4today.com/index.php/archived-articles/8-t4t-news/5-what-is-target4today
Don't be fooled by the date, various new hosting and updates over time.... I wrote it 5 years plus ago.
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This is my opinion..
http://target4today.com/index.php/archived-articles/8-t4t-news/5-what-is-target4today
Don't be fooled by the date, various new hosting and updates over time.... I wrote it 5 years plus ago.
So..... what ever happened to that effort?
And in the meantime.......
http://nexgenflightsim.com/index.php/3d-engines/
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A 20 man team in targetware got reduced to half a dozen with Targetwares demis. We moved to flightgear where the welcome shown reduced the numbers by 50% again....
Politics in flight sim world is a bugger...
Not to worry, if Outerra can deliver, then I'm sure I can get the band back together, its not like they've gone far.
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Outerra is like watching a house being slowly built while you wonder and wonder when you can finally move in. =D
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Not quite..... you see you don't have any rights to move in... and even if you did move in, as quick as it takes to shut a server down you're out on your arse.
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Yes, the server part bothers me. I had internet go out for a day, and couldn't do a thing with Outerra. I didn't like that. It reminds me of programs I purchased in the past that became unusable when the servers where shut down. I and a few people were very leery about rise of flight in the beginning because of that, but Aerosoft promised to stand behind them and keep the servers running if the company ever folded, and the community trusts Aerosoft.
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Yes, the server part bothers me. I had internet go out for a day, and couldn't do a thing with Outerra. I didn't like that. It reminds me of programs I purchased in the past that became unusable when the servers where shut down. I and a few people were very leery about rise of flight in the beginning because of that, but Aerosoft promised to stand behind them and keep the servers running if the company ever folded, and the community trusts Aerosoft.
I think it was stated clearly by the devs that there will be an offline version once the engine will be more stable. Keeping an login authentication makes updates mandatory for everyone opening the game, that way you make sure that every user is up to date, even if he does not check news on the website. However, I'm not a huge fan of the constant authentication, if your connection drops, the program stops too...
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Sorry for being maudlin, Its just that after spending 5+ years in a similar community driven environment I now have a different approach to my time spent..
Invest less with the heart my friend.
With regards the Server, I'm not against it as it shows a development path into online play..
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Yes, the server part bothers me. I had internet go out for a day, and couldn't do a thing with Outerra. I didn't like that. It reminds me of programs I purchased in the past that became unusable when the servers where shut down. I and a few people were very leery about rise of flight in the beginning because of that, but Aerosoft promised to stand behind them and keep the servers running if the company ever folded, and the community trusts Aerosoft.
I think it was stated clearly by the devs that there will be an offline version once the engine will be more stable. Keeping an login authentication makes updates mandatory for everyone opening the game, that way you make sure that every user is up to date, even if he does not check news on the website. However, I'm not a huge fan of the constant authentication, if your connection drops, the program stops too...
... well, looking at it from the development side, were on-line, not in the fine-print mentioned, bug-testers ... so its mandatory. Want have all da BUGS ! =D
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24 hour reliable internet is something we should all strive to attain. And having this game/engine function when there is more than just terrain is key. I want to fly or drive towards a city I've never seen before and have it downloading that city seamlessly as I approach. I want all the custom textures and sounds and player-data ready to go without me even knowing what is going on.
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At the nexgen website, the originator has made a deal that allows site members to download and test the Unigine Port Angeles tech demo (normally not released to the public) as part of the evaluation of engines suitable for a next generation flight simulator.
In many ways it was deja vu, since I saw many similarities to Outerra, and a mix of advantages and disadvantages. What I did not see was anything Outerra probably could not do with sufficient art and content assets. (and 3D trees! and better clouds!) =D
It was very interesting.
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Very interesting read. Had no idea that there were this many candidates for a new flight sim engine. The unigine engine or engines looks great, but they seem to be extremely private.
I registered at the next gen flight sim forums and tried to download the unigine port angeles tech demo. You have to make a minimum of 5 posts before u can download it. I have done that, and have yet to receive permission..
Took a look at the avsim thread.. very exciting stuff!
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So. Of those of you who joined the nexgen forum....... and the only one I know of is Bomber...... did anyone try the Unigine tech demo being exclusively offered there? Any thoughts?
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Pros:
- The overall image is beautiful.
- 3d trees.
Cons:
- Very hard transition between forest and other used textures.
- There are not actual clouds: try to fly at its level or over them.
- The mountains looks nice... from far. When you are getting close to them, you realize that can't compete with OT detail (talking about the terrain itself). Unigine just have normal maps and unnoticeable parallax.
- The ocean looks waaay better in OT.
- The lakes... that solution is as sad as the temporal one I made for OT, but with animated texture. Try to be under the lakes, and you'll see what I mean.
- At ground level, the grass popping is terrible.
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Well its been an interesting discussion at the Avsim thread, especially when Cameni dropped by. The imagers he posted of OSM in outerra were very exciting!
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I didn't try the engine.....I said why on their forum, don't really care if it's not been accepted as a valid reason, it's my reason, it's my hobby....
What I can say is that there seems to be some bias going on.
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Well its been an interesting discussion at the Avsim thread, especially when Cameni dropped by. The imagers he posted of OSM in outerra were very exciting!
How can we see them? :-o
I think even if ýou put some link here, avsim is not public for all :( But maybe u can put some captures.
I agree with KW71. And i would add, the 3d trees are flickering a lot, I almost preffer 2d trees in Outerra without flickering. I like Outerra trees, even being 2d, are well done and textures and colours look natural. I just miss double resolution when you are really near, and some move with wind. But being 2d dont know which trick can make them move.. Maybe a hibrid 2d-"3d". With some separate 2d parts able to move.
In the actual status, even without OSM and all the coming stuff ánd ideas, for me Outerra is in front by far. Terrain is way more natural and better, the world is entire. And when they add some assets, OSM, global world real trees coverage, etc, etc, then will even kill any discussion. And thats talking just about Terrain and Graphics posibilities being global.
I forgot the "Array" System, which i suggested in the road editor enhacement post. Which would make posible repeat a lot of instances for poles, and much more things. This system implemented can give almost infinite posibilities as i explained there for cover the world.
And Cameni talked about that in Miles of tracks Post, using another name (Repeater) but i guess is the same concept. And it seems is in advanced almost ready develop..
Cameni words: "Repeater requires a modification of the material system to support small instanced geometry rendering without a full blown object pipeline. It's going to be used also for other road and railroad related things like poles, guard rails, but also highway connections, bridges and tunnels.
Material system update depends on shader system update (which is now mostly ready, so it's waiting on a free time slot)".
Outerra 2015 is getting exciting.
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"I didn't try the engine.....I said why on their forum, don't really care if it's not been accepted as a valid reason, it's my reason, it's my hobby....
What I can say is that there seems to be some bias going on."
And you are right. If they already knew what they wanted... ¿what's the point of their symposium?
I have already answered there, if you want to see.
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The thing is, The UNIGINE 2015 roadmap was posted, and its very aggressive, from a team with money and manpower that is moving forwards rapidly, and whose plans are written firmly on the wall. It was impressive.
Outerra has great potential, but right now there is no large money or manpower, and things are moving forward relatively slowly. I wanted Outerra to be choosen, because I think it has enormous potential, probably greater than UNIGINES in the end (unigine is a more traditional engine) and could have used the boost, so I am disappointed.
That being said, I wonder how Outerra can step up their game, so that it stands out more as a obvious choice.
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Well, I wish them luck, because I can't do nothing with Unigine... As you have read in their page, I emailed Unigine long time ago, asking for a chance to have acces to the engine, for studying purposes....
You can't learn what is not in your reach.
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Well its been an interesting discussion at the Avsim thread, especially when Cameni dropped by. The imagers he posted of OSM in outerra were very exciting!
Which thread?
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Well its been an interesting discussion at the Avsim thread, especially when Cameni dropped by. The imagers he posted of OSM in outerra were very exciting!
Which thread?
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/469292-the-new-faster-leaner-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-available-for-your-input/page-26
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http://forum.avsim.net/topic/469292-the-new-faster-leaner-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-available-for-your-input/page-26
Thanks :)
Some eye candy for those who don't have access to AVSIM:
(http://i4.minus.com/imkhqRpZqJJAz.jpg)
(http://i4.minus.com/ibsVaeyV2nGZo0.jpg)
Note this is WIP, terrain was not leveled and roads do not connect seamlessly yet, road coloring is is there just to show OSM road types etc. But these tests show us the feasibility of the vector overlay system: we imported the whole world, creating 29,583,113 km of roads and the whole system works really well.
Buildings can be placed manually or imported from vector sources or procedurally generated to achieve geo-typical look. All of it is in development.
The thread is interesting, but a bit too much "my opinion is the opinion" for me. It's sometimes a bit sad to see people spending a lot of time arguing about each other position - so much time wasted on so insignificant things. This and the numerous "I'm not an expert but this is the best technical solution".
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(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7643/vcpacx5o6d0wb1y6g.jpg)
This was posted as a representative sample of what outerra looks like. Anyone here ever seen outerra look like that?
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(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7643/vcpacx5o6d0wb1y6g.jpg)
This was posted as a representative sample of what outerra looks-´*
Some people talk about Outerra without knowing it at all..
Just for some few references, old images, or a short personal test without the propper atmosphere configuration, etc.
Also talking with prejudges about procedural methods for get real scenaries.
This image is so weird.. I am getting some great results with some configurations and also with the help of RESHADE.
My only problem is that i cant rec a Video with Reshade effects. Because the recorder ignore it. I am looking the way to do. I think i need a exterior recorder for do it. I was trying with camtasia. BUt stil i cant do propperly.
I wanted to open a thread talking about Outerra ilumination. For a constructive vision of it. I am very demanding in that and i saw a few lighting problems in Outerra. Coverall, the new bloom make light colors and snow too white. And if you want more contrast there, your shadows will be too dark.
After test a lot, i got an excelent result solving totally this problem. I will see how i can show it for everybody.
Now i am also trying with mirillis program recorder. But the same.. Reshade effects are not recorded there..
I want to make a future thread sharing this reshade configuration. Maybe Cameni can add a few controls like curves, hue, etc (like reshade do with opengl) directly in the engine which would allow users to make a custom perfect lighting without reshade helping.
Also after the last update, the terrain looks much better. I dont know any engine with that mountains and rocks. For me Unigine is another "flat terrain" engine more, with very nice assets, but the terrain is all "flat". Just some images dont make justice to outerra at all. and i want to change that.
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Considering the weird shadows and the texture color, I bet it's an outdated driver. Even by modifying heavily the athmos settings, there is no way you can get a grass like that...
This is the closest thing I can get with weird settings:
(http://i.imgur.com/hLM1CQT.jpg)
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This image is so weird.. I am getting some great results with some configurations and also with the help of RESHADE.
My only problem is that i cant rec a Video with Reshade effects. Because the recorder ignore it. I am looking the way to do. I think i need a exterior recorder for do it. I was trying with camtasia. But stil i cant do propperly.
Something like that. Make much more justice to the engine.. I will try to have time and at least, if i cant record videos, Take some nice pictures
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2i7tyki.jpg)
Here you can see, a perfect (for me) relation between highlights and darker shadows sides. Where lighter parts of the scenary are not burn, and dark are not black.. This in video should be much better to show
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I'm unhappy....
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Well, a deal was made, and that picture was withdrawn. I don't want to cause arguments or trouble. I just want things to be fair.
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Well a couple of posts today by the new golden boy, in that forum and the flight modelling forum smacks of too much politics for me...
The whole of the 3d Engine forum needs burning to the ground and starting again.
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Well a couple of posts today by the new golden boy, in that forum and the flight modelling forum smacks of too much politics for me...
The whole of the 3d Engine forum needs burning to the ground and starting again.
If they get something done it will hopefully be a good thing. And some people who were very arrogant, rude, dismissive and otherwise, can watch as people move past cynicism and actually just go ahead and do something to advance the hobby. I'll applaud that. Just make the selection process fair, in such a way that nobody can have doubts.
I'm hoping to see just as thorough a look at Unity, and maybe even Proland, and it would probably be nice if a few full versions of Outerra were offered for evaluation as well.
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@josem75 Anti-aliasing!!! :o =D =D =D =D =D
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If they get something done it will hopefully be a good thing. And some people who were very arrogant, rude, dismissive and otherwise, can watch as people move past cynicism and actually just go ahead and do something to advance the hobby. I'll applaud that. Just make the selection process fair, in such a way that nobody can have doubts.
I'm hoping to see just as thorough a look at Unity, and maybe even Proland, and it would probably be nice if a few full versions of Outerra were offered for evaluation as well.
It's not a full version they wanted, but a SDK. Which simply isn't there at the level that third party game devs could use, which is why at the moment any project can only work with our participation. Not because we won't anyone play with it. If a competent and serious developer showed up, we could talk about ways of business and development cooperation, but we simply can't afford to lose time vainly.
Sorry if I spoil it for you - to me these guys look to be just another bunch of dreamers that do not have any game development experience behind them, yet they are going to take on one of the most complex of things. The newly appointed "golden boy", as bomber wrote, has a long experience in using 3D offline rendering software, you may have noticed that he only recently stopped mentioning Terragen in every post. I'm still reading their posts from time to time and sadly smiling at some constructs that are being warmly received, while they tend to suppress and ignore every sign of a real experience like bomber's ("we want your experience, just don't talk about things we do not want to hear").
Originally I though that the SIM-Posium was going to be a gathering of those sim enthusiasts who actively want to support development of a new generation simulator, a sub-group of the flight sim base. What it wanted to achieve (and how) was unclear to me, but I thought ok, we'll see. However, over time it's appearing that they simply want to launch their own Kickstarter based on an idea of a next-gen sim, then use the money to hire and control real developers that will implement the ideas for them. Reminds me of countless number of guys who are regularly approaching us, no prior stuff done, no useful capabilities, but they want to direct and control creation of their dream MMO game, and see themselves in position of CEO and ideas provider. Can you imagine how that would work?
Luke's (http://forum.avsim.net/topic/469292-the-new-faster-leaner-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-available-for-your-input/page-32#entry3251486) comment over at Avsim was spot on:
Think about that for a minute. I'm not a brain surgeon, nor have a played on on TV. But one of my daughters has had brain surgery (and well, I've had surgery) and it's complicated, imprecise and expensive. Not to mention dangerous. I'll set up the "Nex-Gen Brain Surgery" internet forum, and ask lots of neurosurgeons and hospitals and health ministry officials to participate. What do you expect their reaction to be? Substitute any other discipline and the reaction will be the same.
So you get a company with no track record, with clueless management handing out money of not their own. What could possibly go wrong?
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What could possibly go wrong? I guess nothing, because the idea counts. Therefore each 16 year old MMO-Boy creates and successfully releases his own Onlie MMO. Just by hireing his friend, which wants to learn html and php for game development.
Sarcasmn beside, this sim community will fail until they have a clear structure. Democracy has no place in making projects. The verbal war between Luke and this other dude (mrsbrace or something like that) shows two alpha wolves which wont ever work together. And what the hell is a next-gen flight sim? Is unigine even made for making worlds? I just see questions, and empty eyecatching marketing words. The actual question is, why dont they create content for OT? They dont need the OT sdk for importing planes and setting them up. Even auto piloting could work without using the sdk. Behaving like a big player is not smart for a small project team with no experience.
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What could possibly go wrong?
Oh, something can go really wrong.
If they end up convincing a few people to jump in, manage to produce a few videos and screens with Unigine, and launch the Kickstarter campaign, something bad can happen:
- Option n°1, the flight-sim community don't follow the project (majority of users seem to be concerned mainly by the lack of experience of this team) and the kickstarter is a failure. Future crowd funding projects of the same type will automatically be considered as suspect because of this.
- Option n°2, even worse, they gather the interest of a non-savvy crowd attracted by the promises and the screenshots (managing to get a good looking scene in the Unigine must be the simplest part of their project). They hire several devs but the money and the lack of experience of this team will certainly attract scammers. Without a real understanding of the structural management of a software project, with devs scattered around the world (I don't think they can manage to get enough to create a real brick and mortar office), the projects will really quick sink under bugs/criticism. People will start to ask why the demo is limited to a single area, why physics are bad, why this, why that. These guys (which I think have for the most part an honest enthusiasm) will only have a broken and unfinished dream in their hand, and for only choice to kill the project. Same result than the previous option, this will only generate suspicion from Flight-sim users and you will see things like : "this is a proof that nothing is possible outside FSX/X-Plane" everywhere.
Honestly, I don't even think they will reach the kickstarter step. If they are not fools, they will realize quickly that it's a really hard task. I just hope that no scammer will be involved, convincing them that launching the project is possible and enjoying free cash for nothing. As you said, a SIM-posium was a good idea for a single place to present innovative projects for the future of simulations. But it's not a place to conduct a project.
It's a bit frustrating to see so much people think that money can make miracles. Without long researches, thinking, design and skills money generate nothing except bad products. It's just a tool, and one which don't work really well with dreams.
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Instead of doing what the useful, you argue here about insignificant things as if does not give what the better. :facepalm:
Power to you rather in the socks and finds to me to pair of useful hangar architect's plans instead of writing four sides WTF, who to whom on the shoes has peed. :P
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"None so blind, that those who do not want to see".
One guy:
"We need an engine that will do as much of the gruntwork for us as possible thereby saving us as much time, effort and money as possible".
After:
"Even with Unigine there is a fundamental design limitation for large-scale flight simulation: flat earth terrain model".
Yep... almost nothing...
Other guy:
"At least their engine can support large flat worlds".
After:
"Yah, now I can kind of see how a flat world might create some problems".
Really? This guy could help:
(http://corsax.mx/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/COLOMBO.jpg)
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Guy's, don't forget that for some, Outerra itself inspires skepticism for various reasons. Yet here we are, drawn together by the belief that something good is happening here, and that some of us can help.
Could Nexgen sim etc fail? Of course! In fact, the many people who listed the reasons why had some valid points. But...... however slim the odds, they might actually succeed, to a greater or lesser degree, and I will take ten cross-eyed, one armed monkeys trying to build a lean-to to shelter from a storm, over 100 soaking wet engineers announcing the materials are not available for a mansion, any day. =D
I'm curious to see what happens. (I have a raincoat)
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Cameni, I understand your above comments however the last paragraph I could do with some clarification.
Let me explain where I'm coming from so as you can understand my expectations.
I wish to create an online multi-player WWII bomber crew sim, as a living evolving memorial.
I have no wish to control you guys, I might ask for some feature or another but it'll be more so as to let me get on with my stuff, like an improved tool or something like that... there won't be any clouds type requests as if I can see it needs something like that then so can you and I trust you'll get round to it in all good time.
I'm not after making money, if we sell T-shirts at an airshow and use the money for server costs then that's about it... I don't expect those playing it to have to pay either other than the one off nominal licence fee and certainly not a monthly fee. Look if the sim goes viral and it looks like there could be large amounts of money to be made by Outerra charging for monthly playtime then I guess a rethink would be in order. But also if a WWII bomber sim goes viral to that extent, then we've done something pretty amazing and you'll have far bigger revenue streams to concentrate on.
I read you say that if there's an interest in a flight sim then Outerra would set up it's own dedicated sim team and it's there involvement that I'd personally like clearing up..
I don't wish to tell you how to run your business, but I'd hope that this dedicated Outerra sim team wasn't spending it's time creating content for a flight sim, but instead was creating functionality that a community team could use to create content..
Yeh I know you've seen the community in action over on other forums, it's not pretty but it's a cultural issue that's been allowed to develop and it's not something I partake in.
I genuinely like it here, it has a nice feel this forum and I congratulate you on that. There's a level of mutual respect that comes across from the Outerra team towards people that are creating content that not seen in other flight sims. And because of it there's a genuine patience and warmth shown by the community towards the Outerra team, there's an understanding that things take time.
So the question I'm asking is....
Are my expectations of a Target4Today bomber sim using the Outerra engine realistic ?
Should I start to get 'the band' back together again (it's been lonely on my own) with the understanding that Outerra wishes to work with a community dev team ?
or was the idea of a dedicated Outerra sim team a 'closed shop' that created everything, controlled everything..
Regards
Simon
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....Should I start to get 'the band' back together again (it's been lonely on my own) with the understanding that Outerra wishes to work with a community dev team ?....
:O :O :O :O
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You know you want to get the band back together....
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The simulator project was always defined as World Simulator platform. We actually do not have any interest to provide content for the simulator ourselves, not counting the base scenery data (the default world scenery imported from available global data sources).
We expect many 3rd party devs (especially indies) to start creating addons of various types once the platform becomes usable, and I consider some of those who are already making OT mods to become content makers for the platform, even commercial.
Business model would be royalty based but allowing freeware as well, so it should be quite in your hands if you want to monetize it.
The dedicated simulator development team is the one that is supposed to work on specific simulator functionality, while our core team focuses on the world renderer and necessary tools.
I don't wish to tell you how to run your business, but I'd hope that this dedicated Outerra sim team wasn't spending it's time creating content for a flight sim, but instead was creating functionality that a community team could use to create content..
Yeh I know you've seen the community in action over on other forums, it's not pretty but it's a cultural issue that's been allowed to develop and it's not something I partake in.
That Avsim thread somehow spoiled the meaning of the word "community" for me. We want to continue supporting those who do, not so much the ones who just talk, so I'd rather refer to the former as developers or content makers.
Are my expectations of a Target4Today bomber sim using the Outerra engine realistic ?
Should I start to get 'the band' back together again (it's been lonely on my own) with the understanding that Outerra wishes to work with a community dev team ?
The only problem is when we'll be actually able to launch the development of the simulator platform. A separate dedicated dev team will require funding, which we could possibly get in a crowd-funding campaign. I doubt it would be possible to set the funding goal to a sum sufficient for a full out of the box simulator (which is assumed to require >2.5mil), given the state of the community, but an incremental development towards an open simulator platform could work with less. In any case, there's still a lot of work we have to do even before launching the campaign, if we want it to succeed.
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I doubt it would be possible to set the funding goal to a sum sufficient for a full out of the box simulator (which is assumed to require >2.5mil), given the state of the community, but an incremental development towards an open simulator platform could work with less. In any case, there's still a lot of work we have to do even before launching the campaign, if we want it to succeed.
... well, doesnt need to have 30 planes, 30 helos, 30 cars, 30 trains and 30 ships/subs ... if each had one "sample" model made deep as it can (thought to support as many possible functionalityes for each class to keep the room for more than just basics) and import-modding is done well, content would come eventually from people ... 2.5 mil for a dev team for this purpose would be neat, but i think its a much optimistic number for such a project (unforseen stuff allways likes to eat gold-nuggets somewhere in the dark corners).
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Yes working with less, progressively working with you guys to build a sim is the way forward in my opinion for a community development project. Not everyone needs an out of the box sim before they start creating content..... Which you're seeing at present here..
However from my point of view, these projects are somewhat hidden within posts and not highlighted enough, so as to attract more members into the teams...
Can I suggest dedicated mod forums.. I'd like a Target4Today forum that could be used to generate interest... And I'm sure there are others, and in doing so it shows yet again the willingness of the Outerra team to work with its modding community.
Regards
Simon.
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...2.5 mil for a dev team for this purpose would be neat, but i think its a much optimistic number for such a project (unforseen stuff allways likes to eat gold-nuggets somewhere in the dark corners).
Sorry, dass ich mich wieder einmische, aber 2-3 mil sind viel zu wenig für ein Flugsim.
Da kannst Du locker über 8- 10 mil mitrechnen. Allein schon die alle Infos über
verschiedenen Fluggeräten (jetzt ohne Bodeneinheiten mitgerechnet) werden alle
vernünftigen rahmen sprengen. Vorausgesagt, dass man einen korrekten Flugsim
machen will und nicht so ein BSh...$&%, wie DCS, IL-2 StOrmofik, WT etc...
Bei allen anderen gebe ich Dir recht....die Leute, die sich wirklich daran interessiert sind
werden kommen und ja - sie werden zahlen.
p.s. man soll sie aber nicht verarschen und jeden Schritt durchdacht machen...sonst
wird man zum 2-en Schefftschenko bzw. Zhilzoff werden... :D
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...2.5 mil for a dev team for this purpose would be neat, but i think its a much optimistic number for such a project (unforseen stuff allways likes to eat gold-nuggets somewhere in the dark corners).
Sorry, dass ich mich wieder einmische, aber 2-3 mil sind viel zu wenig für ein Flugsim.
Da kannst Du locker über 8- 10 mil mitrechnen. Allein schon die alle Infos über
verschiedenen Fluggeräten (jetzt ohne Bodeneinheiten mitgerechnet) werden alle
vernünftigen rahmen sprengen. Vorausgesagt, dass man einen korrekten Flugsim
machen will und nicht so ein BSh...$&%, wie DCS, IL-2 StOrmofik, WT etc...
Bei allen anderen gebe ich Dir recht....die Leute, die sich wirklich daran interessiert sind
werden kommen und ja - sie werden zahlen.
p.s. man soll sie aber nicht verarschen und jeden Schritt durchdacht machen...sonst
wird man zum 2-en Schefftschenko bzw. Zhilzoff werden... :D
Much of the cost of a sim is in just creating the world. Outerra is already planning to do that anyway, and having OSM will just make it even easier to fill that world. Most of the cost in making an Outerra sim would probably come from specialized stuff like paying for certain types of data: Airports, sophisticated avionics, licensing etc.
Interestingly enough there are volunteers here willing to help make some of that happen already. Don't think of it as starting from scratch: think of it as adding to Outerra.
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Interestingly enough there are volunteers here willing to help make some of that happen already. Don't think of it as starting from scratch: think of it as adding to Outerra.
... actually, its quite possible many of those will be done anyway thanks to the TitanIM guys project. So ... i guess we keep some deposits for support aside and jump to Blender/MAX again ! ;)
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I genuinely like it here, it has a nice feel this forum and I congratulate you on that. There's a level of mutual respect that comes across from the Outerra team towards people that are creating content that not seen in other flight sims. And because of it there's a genuine patience and warmth shown by the community towards the Outerra team, there's an understanding that things take time.
I really couldn't agree more! 8)
Regards,
Uriah
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I think the efforts over at Avsim and other places, to let people know about Outerra, its progress and the possibilities, has been in many ways about shining a light towards an area that with the community's long standing focus on FSX, could easily be otherwise ignored, losing what could be a golden opportunity.
Even X-plane, with all its many features, has failed to draw a significant following comparatively, making it seem sometimes that the community will hold on until the very last moment, covering FSX with layer after layer of new paint, while ignoring the programs inescapable age.
DTG might be a savior, but using "Microsoft flight technology" can it really be something new? The jury is still out until DTG finally speaks up.
In the meantime, the tone of the Avsim thread leaves me fairly certain no bold initiatives will originate from within the current community, and I'm very unsure about the Nexgen initiative as well. For me, Outerra remains one of the most promising options for a true Nexgen simulator (among so many other things!) and as long as there is a forum, I think I and others will continue trying to spread the word, and keep the community up to date.
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Nexgen has shot itself in the foot... With all the talk of hidden forums and NDA's and not wanting others to 'steal' their ideas..
Ideas have value yes, kinda like a free £1.50 bugger
voucher that you get... However it's monetary value is 0.00001pence.
An idea has little value, untill it's implemented in code...
Going 'dark', talking behind closed doors or privately will just destroy their greatest asset, enthusiasm and momentum..
I'd say something over there, however I've been told by a young sprog to only post things they like to hear.
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Well, I'm certainly not a stranger to hidden forums and NDA's, and certainly if this reached a certain stage it would probably become a necessity.....
But I'm not sure why it would be important at this stage, when, as you said, enthusiasm and momentum (and hence relative openness) is so important.
On the other hand, some tough business/legal reasons were given that I have no experience to judge, so.......... whatever.
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Well the threads from Stephen are now being locked at avsim.... 162 days of simposium over at nexgen still to go.
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Hey Guys,
Stephen B. Here from nexgenflightsim.
I read through this thread with great interest and thought I'd add my two pence worth.
The SIM-Posium was always meant to be a community driven effort to discuss the future of flight simulation. The Idea was that folks like you, particularly those who have skills would become a part of the SIM-Posium and actively take part in the discussion. Through your leadership and guidance and others like you I think we could have (and still can) have great discussions that lead the community towards a consensus as to what can be done to ensure the future of flight simulation.
Several comments have been made regarding our lack of experience... well... you're absolutely right... the handful of folks who hang out at the SIM-Posium do have a lack of experience, but that could all change if individuals who do have experience, knowledge and expertise would get involved.
UNIGINE Sim may wind up not being the ideal engine for the development of a next generation flight simulator and then again... in the right hands, it could be. But with that being said... so could Outerra... but because of our lack of experience over at the SIM-Posium (as noted in a comment made earlier) I doubt seriously that the Outerra boys would let us take a serious look at it to learn of it's potential. But... just for a moment... think what could and still can happen if all you folks here with all this experience joined together and created a clear roadmap for the evaluation of Outerra, UNIGINE, etc. I'd be willing to bet that we could then have access, because the talent and knowledge would be there.
Here's the point... the SIM-Posium was created for one purpose and one purpose only... to gather the community together under one roof (so to speak) as a place where all this talent and knowledge could be used to forward the progress of flight simulation.
It can still happen... and I, for one, would welcome each and everyone of you to join us and help us organize, and take leadership roles and... well... together... do something great.
As individuals... no one is going to take the flight simulation community seriously... but as a gathered force... now that's a different story.
Stephen B.
What happened, at least from my perspective, is that we had a lot of people drop by to see what was going on but never really did get into the discussion of the possibilities.
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Well my login over there stopped working, probably for about the 5th time, and I kind of gave up on posting. =|
I do stop by and read the occasional post by others though, but honestly, there doesn't seem to be that much activity, really.
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Well my login over there stopped working, probably for about the 5th time, and I kind of gave up on posting. =|
I do stop by and read the occasional post by others though, but honestly, there doesn't seem to be that much activity, really.
If you want to get logged in, please contact kc999 he'll be able to fix the issues.
You're right, there isn't a lot of activity... but that could change if everyone here who posted in this thread came over and helped us out. There are a lot of thoughts here on this thread that if implemented into the SIM-Posium could go a long way towards success. Activity... has always been dependent upon those interested to come and join the discussion. It's a movement... simple as that... and the more people who help... the greater the movement will become.
It boils down to each individual deciding for themselves... are they completely satisfied with what they have and the future direction that is being taken in the world of flight simulation or do they want something better, something newer, another step towards "as real as it gets". Each person can make a difference and contribute to the future of flight simulation. Making a choice and getting involved... that's as simple as it gets.
Stephen B.
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The SIM-Posium was always meant to be a community driven effort to discuss the future of flight simulation. The Idea was that folks like you, particularly those who have skills would become a part of the SIM-Posium and actively take part in the discussion. Through your leadership and guidance and others like you I think we could have (and still can) have great discussions that lead the community towards a consensus as to what can be done to ensure the future of flight simulation.
Hi Stephen,
I want to try and explain something about this place...
We've all paid a small sum to evaluate Outerra, so it's a community that has put their money where their mouth is...
Outerra is available for us to evaluate, and not just that but to add objects, work with the product and the developers to identify missing functionality and over time hopefully add them.
Now I watched from the sidelines for a few years, because Outerra although good in many features had for me a key missing feature.... Flight Model creation... It wasn't for me to add the flight model functionality, but to point out that it was missing.
Outerra added JSBsim... Lets look at it, it's open source, constantly evolving, used by universities around the world and within other flight sims such as Flightgear and so versatile that if you want (and I did) you can rework it to suit your requirements such as the inclusion of damage within the very heart of the calculations rather than just as an add-on.
So what I'm saying is Outerra gave me the opportunity as a modder (not a programmer) to continue my hobby on flight modelling by using the best system, JSBsim that's currently available... And that's a perfect example of the modding community and the engine developers working together..
Now above you talk about discussion and evaluation.... yet at the same time working on an ungine demo and that's surely wrong as a demo has nothing to do with evaluation, in it's pure sense of the term...It's about looking at what the product has to offer in it's present form and future possibilities of the engine, it's developers and community....
Isn't that the symposium stated intentions ?
The symposium ought to be discussing the requirements of an engine and then evaluating 2, 3 or 4 engines to see where they meet the requirement and their intentions.
You request access to Outerra, the core code ?... but that's not required to evaluate it's present form, and you can certainly evaluate it's developers and community because they're here.
Put your hand in your pocket, (there's no free ride in life) and join this community, me, hiflyer etc by supporting the development and then there'll be three people over at the symposium that can evaluate this product.... as opposed to just dismissing all the comments hiflyer has posted.
Simon
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Now above you talk about discussion and evaluation.... yet at the same time working on an ungine demo and that's surely wrong as a demo has nothing to do with evaluation, in it's pure sense of the term...It's about looking at what the product has to offer in it's present form and future possibilities of the engine, it's developers and community....
Isn't that the symposium stated intentions ?
The symposium ought to be discussing the requirements of an engine and then evaluating 2, 3 or 4 engines to see where they meet the requirement and their intentions.
This is where I began to get lost. All engines should have been on an even keel, with input from anyone from the community that expressed a willingness to participate. Unfortunately, true discussion/debate seemed absent. There was strong sense of predestination to the whole process, and that left questions about the democratic nature of the choices being made. You lost a lot of people right there, and it'll be hard to get them back.
This isn't about Outerra by the way. I think that if in the end, after a general discussion of the merits, it was legitimately decided that the engine in its current state was inappropriate, that would have been fine. But that should have been a community decision according the the stated principals of the symposium, and it clearly was not. There's a feeling that discussion of other engines (not just Outerra) was deflected, and this has helped create a certain loss of faith in the workings of the symposium.
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In a way I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel this way, no one likes to be 'Billy no mates'...
One of the problems I had/have is the intended nature of the 'business model' of the NexGen flightsim entity.. It's as if at the end of the day, NexGen will have procured a licence to build and create a flight sim call 'whatever simulation' that is purchased and played offline or online. The talk of a kickstarter and money for development costs all seem to me as though the goal is to create a development house which takes a raw world engine product and molds it to their requirements, putting add-ons here there and everywhere.
It's as if there's and extra entity involved
World Engine Developer
----> Flight Simulation developer <----
Moding/Player Community
I wonder if this business model is somehow connected to the way Microsoft flightsim mods are created ?
We all know the state of flight sim production, it's stagnant..there's nothing new... and the reason being is that it's just not financially viable for either a World Engine Developer or Flight Simulation Developer to deliver the product 'straight out of the box' that a 'player' community demands for it's bucks...
In my opinion those that try will fail..... it's too small a market and those that are in it are just too damn picky...
So there has to be a new business model, we know of successful moding communities and they're quite a force to be reckoned with. Potentially it's a workforce that has a passion for the product and because they're spread throughout the world, you've got production through a 24 hour cycle.... it's a 24Hr virtual design house with next to know costs, communicating on Skype and via the cloud.
The problem I see it is being bold enough to set this up, because its always going to be fluid... A World Engine Developer would see his product having a 'risk' that the contents are being created by non-employees, that exist only on a forum. And their productivity would seem to be linked directly to 'good will' between themselves and the World Engine Developers. Requiring the World Engine Developers to adjust their preferred development priorities into some kind of alignment with this non-employee workforce.....
So if you looked at the Developer/Moding community business model through the eyes of a 20th century businessman you'd probably run away screaming, as to you it'd be incomprehensible. Just look at the 'loyalty' that seems to grow towards the Engine Developers from it's moding community, you never see that between employee and employer.
I genuinely think that the 21st century Developer/Moding business model if bold enough to grab, would create the next internet sensation and create an action packed virtual facebook style world.
pipe dream.... possibly
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And all caused by that simple economic fact, that they can get just as many spending money, as there will be people interested in it ( Damn kids nowadays ! Should be learning playing with sticks instead of that FPS computer crap ! So much easyer to get to a real pilot stick, when they now, how sticks work ! =D ). Yet a project of a deep simulation character takes much more effort and time than even top AAA shooter games. From hours at physics code, trough hours at e-mails and telephone for gaining technical documentation to figuring out how to interest a more broad audience, keeping it technical ... such gigantic work, yet not really profitable enough for that effort. Especially, when next-gen pushes the boundaryes of visuals and simulation quality almost a little bit too far for the smaller anticipating sim audience. And all the work just for a single plane, whyle we want all of them !
... how i see it, it well may end up in hardcore devs, like those in DCS (doing it just for the heck of theyr enjoyment of working on it, balancing on the edge of existence) or transformation of this whole genre to projects actually used in real-world pilot training equipement/services, trough the industry/military, that will be visually up-lifted by a lot, then modified and sold for aditional funding to civilian sim-game-use (witch would probably be a mess in modding and standards/licencing terms).
Well need to start a world-wide specialized simulator-creating super-corporation and engage the big-money government arms-sales EWERYWHERE! Then send a few wagons of hard-lobbyed ... ehm -earned cash the OT-team and sim-devs. (dibs on the name OuterHeaven)
Doe, statistics-department has bad news:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O9R67JIvmdc/S-VGcfx5zsI/AAAAAAAANDg/NBCr6x4d8Zg/s1600/Arm+Sales+Around+the+World+2001-2008.png)
- Aircrafts are loosing to tanks 350 : 3400 =|
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Keep in mind that quite a bit of the functionality required for a flight simulator may be things also desired by TitanIM.......
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Funk yeah.. TANKS!!
I'm a ground warfare type guy. The only thing I want to see in the air is airships. Huge, slow airships.
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Funk yeah.. TANKS!!
I'm a ground warfare type guy. The only thing I want to see in the air is airships. Huge, slow airships.
I think a lot of us without Acetones patience just want the tools to be a bit more advanced so we can start building cities and towns.... ;)
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The symposium gets a closer look.
http://www.flusinews.de/2015/07/das-sim-posium-stephen-borick-im-interview/2/
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I think a lot of us without Acetones patience just want the tools to be a bit more advanced so we can start building cities and towns.... ;)
When the new editor will be out and when OSM support will be up, making a city (if adding buildings is enough) will be possible in a few hours. 70/80% of the time I spend on sceneries is road placement :)
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I think a lot of us without Acetones patience just want the tools to be a bit more advanced so we can start building cities and towns.... ;)
When the new editor will be out and when OSM support will be up, making a city (if adding buildings is enough) will be possible in a few hours. 70/80% of the time I spend on sceneries is road placement :)
Yup! Also a wide-area flatten tool........
I would also like houses to be able to auto-flatten (or exclude) their own bases when placed, so that trees wont inter-penetrate/grow out of the middle of them when you increase the tree density.
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Interesting.......
http://forum.nexgenflightsim.com/forums/index.php?/topic/136-ngfs-sim-posium-is-turning-a-corner/
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The first period is almost the most exciting. Everyone wants to work for the dream. But some days they will wake up and could lose interest in that project.
I never heard that unigene has capabitlities for supporting planets. But thats none of my business.
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/09/18/the-flare-path-loos-cannon/
"There was a time when this column would trumpet news of a potential MS Flight Simulator replacement/successor from the rooftops. Years of stalled projects and unfulfilled promises have taught us to be a bit more circumspect. Nowadays we tend to do our trumpeting from atop beer crates, milking stools, and molehills.
The following three paragraphs come to you from the summit of a deceased tortoise.
An outfit called Next Generation Interactive Software is the latest in a fairly long line of developers keen to “put away the old and build the future of flight simulation using a platform that will continue to keep abreast with the rapidly changing world of software development tools and the hardware that runs them.” The platform in this instance is Unigine, an engine that’s been batting its eyelashes at flight simmers since late 2013.
NGIS appear to be at the very start of their developmental journey. There’s no evidence of coding progress or asset work as yet. All the lovely screenshots on the NGIS site seem to come from existing Unigine demos. Only time will tell whether a team that optimistically describes itself as “the flight sim community” has the skill, will, manpower, organisational acumen and cash to carry through a project that already – going by the extensive ‘feature list’ – looks dangerously amorphous.
Sadly, the Flare Path doesn’t have infinite supplies of Hope. Having squandered bushels of the stuff on previous prospective FSX/X-Plane eclipsers, we wish NGIS luck but won’t be emotionally investing in ‘Next Generation Flight Simulator’ until its makers reveal concrete progress and introduce a little hard-nosed realism into their worryingly Dovetailian publicity campaign."
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This isn't that bad an article, it sums up the apathy within the general flight sim community to news of 'the next best thing'.. it's the same within combat flight sims, having personally invested my emotional energy upon hearing news of 'the next best B17 sim'... if I was to graph a spread of response it'd go from 'hard nosed' to 'down right hostile'
Creating a flight sim and combat flight sim requires lot of 'ducks' to be lined up but the reality is that there's always more work to be done, more ducks out of line... more ammunition that is supplied to disenchanted flight sim 'enthusiasts' with a web site to fire back at you.
I agree with most of what Next Gen write, heck 6+ years ago over at Targetware (vapourware) I was writing the same stuff that big business weren't interested as it's a no win situation as the flight sim community is so negative to new releases, requiring a 'complete fully featured' sim right out of the box, and heaven help us if it's got a the odd bug or two.
I want OT to step up into the BIG LEAGUES of flight simming, but those ducks are all over the place and need aligning, but where do you start ?.. If you look at flight along it's history there's very few ducks that need aligning for the early days of flight, but as technology advances into the jet age with advanced avionics of a commercial airliner and fighter the requirements are huge... If you dip your toe into the early days you run the risk of OT being labeled a 'low and slow' flight sim and that's a very niche market, if you start in the jet age you run the risk of being accused of doing only half a job.
My gut lets me to stay away from the commercial airliners, as it so relaxed in the cockpit it just allows people to look around and take a note of all that is missing and then come onto a forum and post about it...
Instead keep em really active in the cockpit, flying and dodging incoming stuff, whilst looking at the scenery. But not just in a single era of flight but instead over multiple era's, and remember we're talking about an initial 'showcase' release... A release to fire the imagination of OT's potential and drown out any criticism of missing features by 'enthusiasts'.
This is my suggestion…. (think of the terrain as a series of rings)
We create a terrain with a single grass airfield in the centre, a typical airfield in 1917 France and a single bi-plane. It’s early in the morning, there’s a bit of ground mist, you take off and fly above it and there revealed in front of you is the flat French countryside with little hamlets and villages spread around. As you fly further from the centre in the distance you notice a dark smudge and you fly towards it. The smudge becomes the front line trenches you fly over, taking steady incoming fire from small arms and the odd AAA burst, you drop a few bombs on them, that’ll keep them busy. The ground becomes more rolling hills.. Suddenly a AAA burst explodes right in front of you and you come out the other side….. it’s mid morning but in a Beaufighter and it’s now 1943, the small arms fire has increased as well as the AAA and there are now tanks and half tracks and is that a train ?.... you look at your ordnance, rockets, bombs and 20mm cannon ‘Rhubarb and Custard’ time so you line up the train and fire… You continue to fly outwards towards the growing mountain range and again a large AAA burst explodes infront of you, you come through it in a fast jet at mid day… was that a ground to air missile that just flashed past the cockpit ?, ground fire and AAA is coming from below and the sides. It’s a proper mountain range and there’s a railway bridge that you fly under, the mountain sides close in to become a canyon and this is hairy flying with rock bridges above you and the wall whizzing past on either side. You continue to fly through the canyon the stars come out and the walls become more angular and are those lights ? was that an ion cannon tracer ? and then it dawns on you, you’re flying a death star run and you’d better use the force.
I like the above because it doesn’t favour one era or one section of our fledgling community above the other .
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Yeah, I agree with you, I posted the article because it has an interesting point of view, intelligent and moderate. I think what they say about this project can also be applied to Outerra (even if it's probably one step further, I've seen less "we'll see when it has content" and more "it's starting to look interesting" these days).
There is this funny thing with Outerra where everyone look at it and see something different. I don't think Outerra will ever be the "Next Major Flight Simulator Platform", because I don't believe there will ever be one, like it was the case in the FS era. The true thing is, a lot of things can be done with it, and what it will become depends equally on the dev's choices and what we do with the engine. I think it has already be proven that both are influencing each other, and that's why we have currently this good dynamic.
It can will be a lot of things, but the most interesting part of putting a foot on the Moon is how you do it :)
(Oh, and as I've already said, count me in if you want someone to do your WWI - II airfields)
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Flight sim community is kinda like Saurons eye, its sweeping the landscape looking, these guys have made a big noise and as such got noticed. Outerra has slipped under its gaze and crept up on it, like iccle hobitsis.. But that gaze will fall on us and I think it's better to have a plan.
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Flight sim community is kinda like Saurons eye, its sweeping the landscape looking, these guys have made a big noise and as such got noticed. Outerra has slipped under its gaze and crept up on it, like iccle hobitsis.. But that gaze will fall on us and I think it's better to have a plan.
The gaze has already fallen, but as well as the occasional bursts of hope and interest, there are the forces of cynicism and out of control skepticism (and just sheer inertia) that automatically wager against change.
Time will tell.
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Casual glance, not the same thing.
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http://www.hitechcreations.com
http://www.totalsims.com/index.php
Check out these two online wwii air combat sim's, watch some the videos, the language can be a bit fruity mind.
These are old engines being pushed well past their sell by date, and I genuinely think an OT mod can get into this market.
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I fly both on occasion. OT is so 2020 where those 2 are so 1955! ;)
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fixed post
interesting topic,, but there will be opinions as there are colors in spring
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When it comes to combat flight sims there are three things..
Graphics
Gameplay
Realism
The no.1 reason for being excited about a game is graphics, but if the Gameplay is poor then graphics alone won't retain players..
Gameplay retains players in the short term but in the long term can't hold onto players as they become more experienced..
Realism is the main driver to hold experienced players but is a massive turn off for both newbies and medium term players..
The key then that holds both the newbies with their graphics and the experienced with their realism is Gameplay...
Gameplay..... Who the hells working on that?
Simon.
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approximation to reality is indispensable for success in simulation games such as are those that lead you to total immersion, as is the case with the Virtual Reality.
But even within various depths of realism there, so you have to ensure at least the minimum.
Then comes the artificial intelligence (AI), which is the other ingredient that completes the circle.
But much remains to be done, we have no sand, or dunes, or similar color, we have no vegetation, no rain, (snow) no water in the rivers where they see a fishing boat, or multiple forms of clouds, waterfalls and lightning, of variablesni times seasons, and the earth as seen from space and that is what you will grow in value to outerra.
The other thing we know how to do, and come to look, we just have to wait.
that's my opinion.
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Hmmmmmmm................
https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/3mzk43/next_generation_flight_simulator_forums_facebook/
Hello Flightsim Reddit,
At Next Generation Interactive Software (NGIS), we are pleased to announce the re-opening of our forums and our newly created Facebook page.
Link to forums: http://nexgenflightsim.com Link to Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NextGenerationInteractiveSoftware
As our team grows in numbers and by immense talent every week, we are eagerly waiting patiently to begin development on the Next Generation Flight Simulator in collaboration with the UNIGINE v2 engine. Currently, our team consists of many developers and software engineers who come with an extensive background with skills in developing Level-D flight simulators (http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/3040/what-are-the-differences-between-various-simulator-levels), 3D modeling, terrain development, programming in C++ or C#, graphics, animation, production, audio and quality assurance.
Many of them also have ties within flight simulation community. As we continue to build our project outline, we are planning to start development in the middle of October of this year. As we work closely with the development team at UNIGINE Corp., we are committed and excited to be delivering the Next Generation Flight Simulator to the flight simulation community.
Feel free to join our forums to voice your opinion about the project and what features you would like to see in the flight simulator. Also, "LIKE" our Facebook page to stay constantly updated on new features being implemented and the project itself.
Thank you very much
Kind regards,
-Mark Savard; Team Lead of Communications & Marketing at Next Generation Interactive Software (NGIS)
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http://nexgenflightsim.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/319/update-1-24-2016#latest
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http://nexgenflightsim.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/319/update-1-24-2016#latest
It sounds almost like they might end up nearly or completely making their own engine?
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Well at least we can speculate here....
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It sounds almost like they might end up nearly or completely making their own engine?
"Bringing you next generation flight simulation......... in 8 to 10 years, possibly never"
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Well, to be fair, having a good base engine like unigine, plus active help from unigine could have given them quite a head start. It will be interesting to see what direction they take from here.
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Interesting reading. http://nexgenflightsim.com/discussions/#/discussion/comment/2239
I think that thread was locked for a moment, but has actually been highlighted since then by NGIS http://nexgenflightsim.com/discussions/#/search
NGIS has its own dedicated forum at Flightsim.com, much as there is an unofficial Outerra forum at Avsim. The news of the UNIGINE departure is already causing swirls on that forum, as people wonder whats the next move. http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/forumdisplay.php?93-NGFS-Next-Generation-Flight-Sim
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"I liked the symposium, it was a good idea up until Unigine came along and bated their eye lashes at certain individuals, who then simply rolled over and showed them their belly to be tickled..."
What excellent analogy!!! =D
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The ripples widen: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ngis-nexgen-loses-unigine-engine-access-oops.436316/
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They was very hyped about Unigine.
In my humble opinion, when i play Unigine Demo i end up with a headache.. Due to the blur and not only in midle distance, but even in short if you move "head" fast.
When i see outerra terrain and his sharpness and compare with that unigine blur, i have and never had any doubts about which engine is better for a complete rendered world.. And i will not talk about the hability of unigine to render a entire world because i dont know it.. Anybody know that? Is this showed anywhere?
Outerra terrain is incredible. Cant compare with anything. So for a flight simulator the best engine for fly over this terrain would be outerra. At least at the moment.
Dont take me wrong, Unigine is GREAT in many tasks. Shadows, ilumination. Have nice packs of trees and details. In those things is better than the actual outerra. But for a world simulator is not that good as outerra is in my opinion.
Outerra lacks of some things which im sure that Cameni, angry and the new guys are working on. As more color terrain, add more details, coveral shrubs, little plants, trees, osm import, etc.
But its easier to add those details into a great base, than make that base when you still dont have it..
I encourage those from this comunity project to join outerra comunity. Maybe we will not build the simulator itself, but we can help outerra as the actual comunity is doing actually.
Uriah, KW71, bomber, Levi, Acetone, AH-DG, Pyton, Stealrat, and all the guys making content (many names) are good examples of how to do, and its working good in my opinion.. Maybe not as fast as many people would like, but good.
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In the FSdeveloper thread I asked if some of the experienced developers there had an idea what other engines NGIS might explore with UNIGINE and Outerra off the table, but the question seemed to be ignored, and the thread was locked. =|
To me it was a shame, as getting the opinions of experienced people on possible next generation engines and desirable features would have been fascinating. (for me, at least)
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Shame indeed. You turned up late there, when it was already derailed and people posted there just for fun.
As I said in my post, with Unigine and Outerra out of the picture, I'm very curious now about what other options NGIS might explore. In the past, gaming engines have generally been described as not eligible for various reasons by those with development experience (usually because of round-earth concerns) and it leaves me at a loss as to where there is to go now for a truly "next gen" engine.
He posted about engines present at I/ITSEC, maybe Uriah can tell which ones of interest were there. As far as I know, Havok is considered dead in Microsoft's hands. There was the Bohemia's VBS Blue prototype, and another Titan's competitor is VT MÄK (http://www.mak.com/products/simulate/vr-forces), but judge for yourself.
In any case, I find it very hard to believe that these mil sim companies would be thrilled to work with a fresh company that only sells ideas and commitment, however noble the goals.
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Hmmmmmm.... the available videos of VT Mak in action were not stunning...... =|
This is not something that would excite NGIS, if they didn't think Outerra was up to snuff.
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I encourage those from this comunity project to join outerra comunity. Maybe we will not build the simulator itself, but we can help outerra as the actual comunity is doing actually.
Uriah, KW71, bomber, Levi, Acetone, Pyton, Stealrat, and all the guys making content (many names) are good examples of how to do, and its working good in my opinion.. Maybe not as fast as many people would like, but good.
Well. And I, as always forgotten. You are all Angry. I trimmed in monks and go away from you in monastery. :P =D :))
HiFlyer,
Entschuldige, wenn ich mich jetzt einmische, aber was versuchst du da zu erzwingen, wenn ich fragen darf? Du rennst in verschiedenen Foren und misch dich in deren Sachen ein. Nun, wenn sie Unengine gewählt haben, dann ist es doch ihren Sache.
Ich meine, sollen sie doch selber alles auslöffeln was die da am ende bekommen...nÖ. Nun, in einem bin ich mir ziemlich sicher, wenn OT fertig sein wird, werden sie alle zurück rennen und noch darum betteln dabei zu sein. Also, hab Geduld...wie wir alle. :)
Außerdem, in so einen vollkommen neuen Terrain, dass die Jungs von OT auf sich
genommen haben, jegliche Art von eile wird sie anstatt nach vorne immer wieder
zurück werfen. Denn eile ist nur dann gut, wenn man die Läuse fängt. :)) ;)
HABT ALLE GEDULD. ALLES KOMMT, WENN DIE ZEIT DAFÜR REIF SEIN WIRD!
In dem Sinne - Namaste!
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HiFlyer,
Entschuldige, wenn ich mich jetzt einmische, aber was versuchst du da zu erzwingen, wenn ich fragen darf? Du rennst in verschiedenen Foren und misch dich in deren Sachen ein. Nun, wenn sie Unengine gewählt haben, dann ist es doch ihren Sache.
Ich meine, sollen sie doch selber alles auslöffeln was die da am ende bekommen...nÖ. Nun, in einem bin ich mir ziemlich sicher, wenn OT fertig sein wird, werden sie alle zurück rennen und noch darum betteln dabei zu sein. Also, hab Geduld...wie wir alle. :)
Außerdem, in so einen vollkommen neuen Terrain, dass die Jungs von OT auf sich
genommen haben, jegliche Art von eile wird sie anstatt nach vorne immer wieder
zurück werfen. Denn eile ist nur dann gut, wenn man die Läuse fängt. :)) ;)
HABT ALLE GEDULD. ALLES KOMMT, WENN DIE ZEIT DAFÜR REIF SEIN WIRD!
In dem Sinne - Namaste!
Hmmmmmmmm......... I am involved and a member of a lot of forums, particularly aviation themed, and was actually one of the first, if not the very first member of NGIS, having discovered the forum while it was still under construction and having gotten interested at that time. (A strange experience)
Later, I was also was one of the original testers of the Unigine demo when it was posted at NGIS, and once considered getting even more involved in their efforts until a lot of the fun (for me) drained out of the endevour for various reasons.
It shouldn't be surprising that I keep a close eye on the project. :)
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Alles klar. Dann habe ich einfach was falsch verstanden. Hoffe Du bist nicht böse deswegen. ;)
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Alles klar. Dann habe ich einfach was falsch verstanden. Hoffe Du bist nicht böse deswegen. ;)
Kein Problem. :)
If NGIS fails spectacularly, having accomplished nothing, then the forces favoring the status quo will feel themselves vindicated, and anyone else that dreams of a community involved simulation effort after that will find their task much harder.
That would be a sad outcome.
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Hi-flyer has it spot on and I've posted those same concerns to them.
Credibility.
NGiS aren't a competitor to Outerra, they're no threat to them at all. NGiS are in fact a group of connect developers, although that said I've yet to know of one single content developer in the team. Yes there are a fair few PR and QA team members and I've also posted about this to them in the hope that this changes. I've also made it clear I'm prepared to offer advice on flight modelling if so required.
The people in NGiS have a dream and it's the same dream that I have... that a community of content developers can work together with a world simulation engine developer to create a feature and content rich environment in which to enjoy our hobby.
So if anything they're a competitor to a group of content developers within outerra who are slowly coming together to losely achieve the same goals.
I think competition is good, I think their approach is wrong... I hope that outerra content/developer business model (for want of a better description) is successful.
I'd rather work with a group of guys with 3d, 2d, programming etc skills than a president, vice presidents QA and PR skills.
So I hope more people wishing to create content, be it planes trains ships and automobiles...even space flight.. come here, make themselves known and we see what can occur if we put our minds to it.
Regards
Simon.
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Well. And I, as always forgotten. You are all Angry. I trimmed in monks and go away from you in monastery. :P =D :))
Ops.. Of coursee. Edited 8)
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Well. And I, as always forgotten. You are all Angry. I trimmed in monks and go away from you in monastery. :P =D :))
Ops.. Of coursee. Edited 8)
oh man, I was only joking. =D
You do not need to take everything seriously. ;)
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Hmmmmmmm... NGIS site seems to be down, today. GoDaddy says the site is "parked"?
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Was there half an hour ago, but the forum wasn't allowing any new posts.... I was thinking of starting a new thread.
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Ok, it seems like there has been a forum change. They may have been down for the switchover. Its a clean forum now as it looks like none of the old threads are being transferred over. I guess they are archived, though.
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Well I'm glad they've come to the same conclusion about the forum.....
Means I don't have to tell em the obvious. ..
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http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?16443-Team-NGiS-Is-Expanding-Interested
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Ngis announces partnership with Diamond Visionics
http://nexgenflightsim.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133
https://youtu.be/kLN7tte6a7Y
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I would like houses to be able to auto-flatten (or exclude) their own bases when placed, so that trees won't inter-penetrate/grow out of the middle of them when you increase the tree density.