Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: josem75 on November 09, 2015, 07:20:42 pm

Title: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 09, 2015, 07:20:42 pm
I will open this Topic for put some ideas about how to improve  Outerra looks (even more if posible).
I will talk about colours, lighting, night, etc.

I do that because  i love all of the potential i see in this engine. And because i spend many time doing 3d projects, where how colours looks was almost an obsesion for me. I will show one example (this is all 3d, no any landscape):


(http://i63.tinypic.com/2lbp82h.jpg)




Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 09, 2015, 07:34:46 pm
So the first i will show is how i would change some colours. I will take the initial image default as example:

This is the first image by default.

 (http://i64.tinypic.com/50ft74.jpg)

This is the first image by default.


 (http://i67.tinypic.com/29qe640.jpg)


And here is with some modifications.

Basically (in photoshop)  i added some more blue, quit some yellow. Mixing between a simple "variations" tool, and choosing more blue with intensity in two. and also. after some tricks in selective correction for the greens. And also for the blues.  You can see the sky is changed. Its less cyan near the mountains, and also is changed up.

I dont know if all the images outerra use in the engine can be modified like that (i guess technically in photoshop yes, but maybe in outerra there are more complex things on the ground textures).
For the sky would be nice a tool for redefine the colours more accurately (and only the sky colours).     

Also added some contrast.  And other little fixes



Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Uriah on November 09, 2015, 08:29:48 pm
Uummmm.....  no need for Photoshop, you do know about the Environment menu right?!?!

Default settings:

(http://i.imgur.com/NwDQn5V.jpg)

Modified:

(http://i.imgur.com/EuM8nsw.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ca6FHHU.jpg)

Psychedelic:

(http://i.imgur.com/48kSu10.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Uriah on November 09, 2015, 08:55:40 pm
For example, this is the kind of dramatic effect you can achieve by modifying the atmospheric settings. You can reproduce them by setting them sliders to the values I have.

Default settings:

(http://i.imgur.com/v6vfU5M.jpg)

Enhanced:

(http://i.imgur.com/EnMDZ7G.jpg)



Default:

(http://i.imgur.com/0cn7Xcw.jpg)

Enhanced:

(http://i.imgur.com/J2eqGL0.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Uriah on November 09, 2015, 09:03:14 pm
Default:

(http://i.imgur.com/K89Phze.jpg)

Enhanced:

(http://i.imgur.com/ZZe0vnp.jpg)



Default:

(http://i.imgur.com/8UuQndP.jpg)

Enhanced:

(http://i.imgur.com/E7Da2fA.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 09, 2015, 09:42:55 pm
Uummmm.....  no need for Photoshop, you do know about the Environment menu right?!?!

Outerra has the most impressive atmospheric enviroment. So you are right at certain point.
But the base texture/colour can always be improved too.  I will show an example.

Its true that i can do the trick with the sliders in Menu.
But even if i put all the blue at 100%, and quit almost all red and green, i obtain a non natural grass.  Because of the green from the texture Source itself is not right.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/mh7jbr.jpg)

And this is how the sky would look.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/f9nyhy.jpg)


The objetive would be get something like that, imposible at the moment with the slides. And without hurt other elements like the sky colour.  Make the most natural source colour/texture posible for adapt in the diferent atmospheric conditions.

A green more natural like that:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/dc98k6.jpg)







 
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:07 pm
My objetive would be get acces to the main textures/colours source and try to fix the channels for make more natural grass colours, sand colours, etc.

Must be a lot of images, but all can have the same retouch and put in photoshop all together in batchs.

Many fixes can be made. For get natural colours, more contrast, more complexity, etc. 
I can offer the time for do it in my free time.  Maybe can be tested just in one area.

I know at this point we cant customize that without the core work from Cameny and angry. Maybe someday yes, i dont know.  But giving a try in this can be interesting. 

In my proyects when i have the light ready i need to do a lot of fixes on textures. In this example was  hundreds.  And all can be improved a lot findind the correct natural colours. 
I would love to try that with Outerra.


Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Uriah on November 09, 2015, 10:00:33 pm
You can also modify/replace the textures directly.

The textures are contained in the build directory:
\Anteworld\textures\terrain\ground\

In this folder you'll see all the textures which make up the ground. Files ending in 'n' (e.g. 01n.dds) are normal maps. Don't forget to generate mipmaps, etc... more information about compression is in the Textures board.

You'll need the NVIDIA plugin for Photoshop, and/or I also use The Compressonator 1.50 for textures other than albedo, such as normal maps.

Kelvinr made some great texture mods, but somehow they disappeared and are no longer available. You can also make a complete set of texture mods, and add them to a folder in the texture folder so that you don't have to replace the original ones. This is done by opening world.cfg file in a text editor and change the line texture-mod = "", to the name of the texture mod folder, ( e.g. texture-mod = "summer",. I can't remember exactly how this is done, but there is more information in the Textures board, or else someone else will be able to provide more information.

Regards,
Uriah
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 05:30:30 am
You can also modify/replace the textures directly.

The textures are contained in the build directory:
\Anteworld\textures\terrain\ground\

In this folder you'll see all the textures which make up the ground. Files ending in 'n' (e.g. 01n.dds) are normal maps. Don't forget to generate mipmaps, etc... more information about compression is in the Textures board.

You'll need the NVIDIA plugin for Photoshop, and/or I also use The Compressonator 1.50 for textures other than albedo, such as normal maps.

Kelvinr made some great texture mods, but somehow they disappeared and are no longer available. You can also make a complete set of texture mods, and add them to a folder in the texture folder so that you don't have to replace the original ones. This is done by opening world.cfg file in a text editor and change the line texture-mod = "", to the name of the texture mod folder, ( e.g. texture-mod = "summer",. I can't remember exactly how this is done, but there is more information in the Textures board, or else someone else will be able to provide more information.

Regards,
Uriah

Tks Uriah.  I was trying time ago with the textures. But i was only able to change the non-change textures (not depending on the base color).  For example mountains, Beach sand, etc.  I remember i added some white nice beach sand.

But i think the problem with the other textures which change his color with the base color is the source, from Blue Marble.

I have downloaded those Blue Marble images, and i can understand why thos colors look like that in Outerra. 
My guessing is, changing and tewaking some channels in photoshop can do the trick for make outerra colors, grass, etc, look more natural.

Blue Marble has 8 big images i think. So it would be easy to tweek.  But i dont know after which jobs are necesary for the vectorization before can be usable for outerra.
But as i think on it. With this vectorization job made. The images itself could be color fixed, and then, the source colors that the green grass, sand, etc, take as a guide, would make them look more natural. 
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 05:59:24 am
This is a cut from one blue marble pic.  This first is with the original colour.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/ngww0o.jpg)

This second is with some fixes, similar i did to the Outerra images. 

(http://i63.tinypic.com/1414cco.jpg)



Here we can see in the first image. The greens and reds are what we see after in Outerra grass and sand.  Which look a bit not natural. 
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on November 10, 2015, 09:22:09 am
In the last few days I have been playing with Outerra color settings for the same reasons mentioned in this thread. I think the land colors in Outerra sometimes don't look natural, and I mentioned it in my "The grass must die!" thread.

In fact I almost opened a new thread a few days ago, but I didn't want to keep beating the same horse, and I trust the developers will eventually do something, though I think what they really need (for a number of reasons) is a good artist and some content creation people.

One of the main problems seems to come from the interaction of Atmospheric scattering and Outerra land textures, and this is seen best from orbit. Go into orbit and look at the Outerra earth at default settings and you will see very bland and washed-out colors.

Remove or lower atmospheric scattering, and the closer you approach zero, the more natural the outerra earth colors appear, even as the "sky" colors then do very nasty things.

I suspect that the land colors urgently need to be modified to take into account the effects of atmospheric scattering on the overall color balance.

When that might happen is an open question. In the meanwhile I have found that raising the sun intensity to about 50% while lowering the atmospheric scattering settings to your liking before playing with the colors can give a generally pleasing natural effect, and you might want to start from there

Compare this Earth and Outerras from orbit.
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15700000/Images-of-Earth-Roxy-s-Home-Planet-the-official-twinx-spot-15735095-500-500.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: KW71 on November 10, 2015, 10:02:46 am
When you make your tests, just remember to hit Alt+F8 when you switch from locations or change day time, to update the reflection cube map.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Acetone on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 am
Your texture ideas are really interesting, and your tests results really good.
Some of the colors problems may indeed come from the blue marble data, and I'm wondering if there is a way to access and modify it.

For the atmo settings: the real problem with those is only the fact that they are not dynamic. A setting will work really well at high altitude and look horrible close to the ground. I'm sure one day it will be possible to do presets depending of the altitude, biome or location of the player.

These elements (ground color and atmo settings) will probably never be perceived the same way be every user. At the end, the ability to easily tweak the settings is one of OT strength.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on November 10, 2015, 10:46:37 am
Some of the colors problems may indeed come from the blue marble data, and I'm wondering if there is a way to access and modify it.

The interesting thing is that Proland is also using blue marble, but its grass texture coloration and in fact general coloration is very
different from Outerras (I believe a bit more natural, though maybe not as detailed/varied?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7Pz7CgTnc

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: M7 on November 10, 2015, 11:00:04 am
Im pretty sure the color of the grass is run by the biome. Dont know if its possible to edit the biome.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Peca on November 10, 2015, 11:42:36 am
Correct me if I am wrong, but now is the atmospheric scattering only one number for the whole planet, right?

I think that is the problem, because in real world the value of atmospheric scattering can be very different from almost zero to some high values depending on weather (and air pollution). So I hope this will be solved together with other weather related things creating locally specific light conditions - cloud shadows, fogs, smoke, rain, etc...
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 11:43:18 am
In the last few days I have been playing with Outerra color settings for the same reasons mentioned in this thread. I think the land colors in Outerra sometimes don't look natural, and I mentioned it in my "The grass must die!" thread.

In fact I almost opened a new thread a few days ago, but I didn't want to keep beating the same horse, and I trust the developers will eventually do something, though I think what they really need (for a number of reasons) is a good artist and some content creation people.

One of the main problems seems to come from the interaction of Atmospheric scattering and Outerra land textures, and this is seen best from orbit. Go into orbit and look at the Outerra earth at default settings and you will see very bland and washed-out colors.

Remove or lower atmospheric scattering, and the closer you approach zero, the more natural the outerra earth colors appear, even as the "sky" colors then do very nasty things.

I suspect that the land colors urgently need to be modified to take into account the effects of atmospheric scattering on the overall color balance.

When that might happen is an open question. In the meanwhile I have found that raising the sun intensity to about 50% while lowering the atmospheric scattering settings to your liking before playing with the colors can give a generally pleasing natural effect, and you might want to start from there

Compare this Earth and Outerras from orbit.

In this earth picture we can see the diference.
In fact Outerra use an earth picture itself as texture.  Its the problem in every texturizing job. The picture already has the lighting effects on it. And then in the render will receive again ilumination from the render lights, and atmosphere effects.

In this case its not a developers fault, because the problem for me is the main data. 
I have the blue Marble pics  and i can tweak  them. But unfortunatelly i cant test in outerra because they dont use directl without some vectorization an other tasks.

If they have the Blue data archives ready for the engine, and i can twek them and send back again for re-use in the engine, we could see if it works.

In my proyect i just fix this kind of things and test in every render. I would put the earth picture you posted and try to get the same result.  I would love to do in here. But at the moment its imposible to retouch directly without the developers action. 
I just can offer my time for try to improve a bit the data, and do some test. Maybe with some area for begin.


I opened this thread coz in really, Outerra is awesome. And have just so little things that can be improved for a huge diference.  Coveral in the nature of the colors (grass, sand), in the night mode, etc.
The night i will talk later. But for example for give an idea. I simule the night with the sun at very low power. And the result is amazing..  Just adjusting the night mode to this result, and with some retouch on the moon (could be more white and bright), it would be done.

We are talking here about the "perfection".  There are just details.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Acetone on November 10, 2015, 01:37:00 pm

 (http://i67.tinypic.com/29qe640.jpg)

And here is with some modifications.

You know, I was curious because I noticed the red area in your picture and I had not realized the dirt around the airport is red-ish. So I opened up the Gmap satellite overlay and...

(http://i.imgur.com/SZQqQo6.jpg)

Wow, if you try to forget the pale colors (because of the natural scattering, as seen from space), your modifications are spot-on. I don't now if these kind of modifications will have the same effect on a entire dataset as on a single image, but I'm starting to like the idea :)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on November 10, 2015, 02:15:38 pm
One of the main problems seems to come from the interaction of Atmospheric scattering and Outerra land textures, and this is seen best from orbit. Go into orbit and look at the Outerra earth at default settings and you will see very bland and washed-out colors.

Remove or lower atmospheric scattering, and the closer you approach zero, the more natural the outerra earth colors appear, even as the "sky" colors then do very nasty things.

Compare this Earth and Outerras from orbit.
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15700000/Images-of-Earth-Roxy-s-Home-Planet-the-official-twinx-spot-15735095-500-500.jpg)

Surely you don't want to compare OT with an artistic rendition of Earth ;)

This is a real photo of Earth taken from one million miles away:

(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/187_1003705_americas_dxm.png)

Of course, even real photos usually go through Photoshop when they go to the media, and you may bet that they aren't being dulled there.


Blue Marble data are coming from the MODIS satellite and they are already corrected for the atmosphere, i.e they are supposed to be the surface reflectance values. We are currently trying to acquire Landsat surface reflectance data that would allow us creating much more detailed color dataset for OT (30 or even 15m), but I believe theses real colors will still look dull to what people expect to see, for lots of reasons - from the inability of displays to render the colors as we are perceiving them outside, different lighting conditions assumed when looking at an image etc. But a certain part of it is that people are used to movies and artistic rendition to the point of dismissing the dull reality. For that reason there will always be some form of color correction in the pipeline, even if all the data and algorithms were completely physical and realistic, and with ultra-dynamic range displays.

No need to recompile the color dataset if all you want is applying some post-processing effects to the surface reflectance colors stored in OT data. For that I'd have to expose a few coefficients from the color decoding matrix, though it's not really just a simple filter matrix. I guess we'll have to make a few presets suitable for different tastes.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on November 10, 2015, 02:42:31 pm
I was suspecting there might be possible issues with color enhancement, so I actually choose that picture from the Nasa website. There are also several Nasa movies that tend to support the earth being a bit more colorful, (maybe it loses color from a million miles away?) but I think in the end, its going to depend a bit on the camera and the lighting conditions.

And maybe on color saturation settings!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOAEIMx39-w

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 05:32:48 pm
30 or 15m resolution for real??  Then we will need a 2 Tb hard drive just for store all the data (anyway i would do it, its cheap). But u really have that in mind?
Just imagining your engine with this data.. It will be a total revolution.

I suppouse the engine can do the job. The problem should be the amount of thata. And also, i dont know if this data is avaiable for free.  I knew the True Marble paid version. Cost was about 20k $ for all the pack or something like that.  For a big proyect is not that expensive.
But another problem could be the shadows??  But there are also posible fixes for that. But would be several Gb to retouch in Ps..

Outerra with that accurate picture data from earth, allow you to see all the changes, the fields, the croplands..  taking it from 500 to 100 would be already a great jump.


You are right about the digital data. Many times in my proyects i use digital data for cover the area i draw.  Always its the same problem. If i keep the original data, all is unnaturally overcoloured.  Greens and reds are overexposed.  Grass and sand look always a bit fake.
But there are always some tweaks which can fix it a bit. 
If u plan to do a pack for diferent tastes. I offer for do one or more.  Just, i dont know if i can tweak the blue marble directly and send to you.  Or if this data need a previous any job so its you who must send me with this previous job. 
If i can do directly and send, just tell me and we can test some.  Its not too heavy weigh for the today connections.

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 06:24:13 pm

CC

And here is with some modifications.

You know, I was curious because I noticed the red area in your picture and I had not realized the dirt around the airport is red-ish. So I opened up the Gmap satellite overlay and...

(http://i.imgur.com/SZQqQo6.jpg)

Wow, if you try to forget the pale colors (because of the natural scattering, as seen from space), your modifications are spot-on. I don't now if these kind of modifications will have the same effect on a entire dataset as on a single image, but I'm starting to like the idea :)

Those variarions are there behind the greenish and yelowish effect from the data. and behind the lack of contrast. 
Dont know until where would be a fix, probably is easier to do in a single image than in all. But i can guarantee that changing the entire data would at least fix this effect.
This is what i do usually in the proyects with those satelite data. Coz all have the same problem in the render.  Sometimes my data end up so diferent than the original, but at the final looks perfect in the render. So its a matter of test it to get the propper tweak with the outerra render.
But at least those all -ish effects can be fixed giving a more natural colors.

Being more detailed, for example. I would try the himalayas, which i see too brownish.
Retouching the data with time and testing would make posible to obtain nice results i guess. Dont think outerra is diferent of any render (well, its even better, and global).
Also, its posible add details and contrasts. So you see a bit more color changes.
Its all a matter of test.
I dont know if its very dificult to take one area. For example the B1. Which have the himalayas too. And send it to Cameni and test the result. Coz surelly would be necesary a rebuild with the changes. But i suppouse is something that they do often internally. While i know they are full full of tasks more importants.  For that reason, in this thread i will try to offer some suggestions not too dificult and time consuming, but with potential in big nice results. 
I can offer my time. Which is not too much but i would give for this task. Im used to do it.


See another option, in the half of the way, also nice.  I still like the  saturated images. I would not quit the color to outerra. But trying to fix those -Ish problems.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/fu7yfd.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on November 10, 2015, 07:09:56 pm
Its also going to depend on your graphics card and your display a bit. I'm using a calibrated IPS display, so I may be more sensitive to color than say a regular display with all sorts of automatic on the fly brightness and contrast adjustments being made.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on November 10, 2015, 07:27:49 pm
Another idea.  Would be posible to use the same biomes system on the sea surface? But less complex. Just a plain tile repeated which acquire the global texture color from blue marble, as we see on the ground. Would not be even necesary to make diferent textures. So i guess not necesary any vectorization. 

This should offer a view of the earth with all the real sea colors changes, instead a plain color like now.
Also this would make outerra closer to the Hiflyer artistic picture. Damm, what we are? We are modern artists! (well, you are genius).. )) All its posible.

An example from one of the Blue Marble Tile. (with some exposure for show better here purpose, the real data is always darker)
With a bit of work. Make it less contrasted, making more soft transitions, etc. I also can offer for try it.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2reskr9.jpg)


And maybe instead a plain color, could have a texture similar like that (its just an example,  but i could work further and make it seamless).


(http://i63.tinypic.com/ehkz6q.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on November 11, 2015, 06:32:29 am
Quote
This should offer a view of the earth with all the real sea colors changes, instead a plain color like now.
Also this would make outerra closer to the Hiflyer artistic picture. Damm, what we are? We are modern artists! (well, you are genius).. )) All its posible.

Oceans have colors computed from light scattering, that depends on the water depth. Besides, would you really want water color from Blue Marble, where it's clearly stated that it's been done that way just to make the oceans more interesting to look at when the BM data are used as maps. Real color is plain, except for shallow seas.
OT uses physical phenomena rendering to make it parametric. One thing that would be compatible with OT way would be adding maps that define, for example, how much bio stuff is in the sea (amount of oxygen in upper parts and stuff like that) so it can be included in the computation.

Quote
30 or 15m resolution for real??  Then we will need a 2 Tb hard drive just for store all the data (anyway i would do it, its cheap). But u really have that in mind?

The data are wavelet-compressed so the size should be much smaller than that.

Landsat data are available for free, but the amount of processing needed is huge. The main problem are the clouds and the need to stitch the satellite scans together in seamless way. There are providers that offer the processed data, like TruEarth (http://www.truearth.com/products/TE_15m_specs.htm), but the prices start from $39,950 for uncompressed global data. GeoSage (http://www.geosage.com/highview/dataproducts.html) has better prices, however these seem to contain many visual artifacts.

We already got data for global 30m forest coverage and water bodies. These also happen to contain the red band of satellite data (together with near-infrared that's used for vegetation density computation), and it may be possible to use it to refine the 500m MODIS color data with it.

Quote
If u plan to do a pack for diferent tastes. I offer for do one or more.  Just, i dont know if i can tweak the blue marble directly and send to you.  Or if this data need a previous any job so its you who must send me with this previous job.
If i can do directly and send, just tell me and we can test some.  Its not too heavy weigh for the today connections.

No, I meant you do not have to modify the input data, I wouldn't even want an arbitrarily modified surface reflectance to be baked in. The modifications should be expressed in the form of some filter coefficients acting on the source surface reflectance data. A post-processing, because that's basically what you want: you want to alter the real reflectance data to suit your taste. I do not know which filter coefficients I'll be able to expose yet, but I guess it generally could be a 4x4 matrix that multiplies the input YUV/veg color vector, or in a simple form a bias and multiplier for each color component. No simple 'shoping :)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: thx_nb on November 11, 2015, 07:56:40 am
I think it's quite interesting how easily the media and 'pictures-made-more-interesting' get to be what we see as 'real'. I really like the way you're handling things to make it as physically realistic as possible.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 24, 2016, 05:37:04 pm
I think it's quite interesting how easily the media and 'pictures-made-more-interesting' get to be what we see as 'real'. I really like the way you're handling things to make it as physically realistic as possible.

You are right in a big part of your point. And if in the case of the oceans, the textures are artificially made for look more interesting (i really didnt know at all, sorry my fault then, i should see the oceans images  from space inr eal photos), then i preffer the reality too.

But in the other hand.. In textures there are always room for improve. Its the never ending task in 3d job and probably the less math depending. Its coverall work with references and try to get there.
I agree the math base of Outerra is amazing. So in this topic i want try to expose things about light and textures which i think can take even more juice from this great engine.
(if i can get a bit of time from my life and job).
We (the people playing the engine since the begining) are the outerra betatester xD.. And i personally enjoy it a lot. Because i believe in those guys project since the begining. Otherwise i would never loose any time with this.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 24, 2016, 05:48:19 pm
By the way, Cameni, or anybody who knows. Is it posible change snow texture color? I was looking for it but the white textures i found was the paint of the road.
I wanted to make texture darker because the bloom is a great effect in outerra, but snow end up burned with it. And loose all the great details snow had in himalayas and other places. GEt just white and even rocks near too
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 24, 2016, 06:12:05 pm
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Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Uriah on February 24, 2016, 07:01:04 pm
You can adjust bloom parameters in eng.cfg like so:

Default:
Code: [Select]
bloom_power = .03,
bloom_threshold = 1.0,

Modified:
Code: [Select]
bloom_power = .01,
bloom_threshold = 0.5,

Also, adjusting the Ground reflectance parameter in the Environment --> Atmosphere tab will effect the resulting bloom.

Regards,
Uriah
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 24, 2016, 08:00:52 pm
You can adjust bloom parameters in eng.cfg like so:

Default:
Code: [Select]
bloom_power = .03,
bloom_threshold = 1.0,

Modified:
Code: [Select]
bloom_power = .01,
bloom_threshold = 0.5,

Also, adjusting the Ground reflectance parameter in the Environment --> Atmosphere tab will effect the resulting bloom.

Regards,
Uriah

Great Thank you Uriah.

I like and want to use normally low scatering configurations because all is more clear. But the problem when go below 0.20 is the darkness everywhere.
I adjusted in 0.25 and this allow me to put exposure lower. This end up in a beautiful snow again and not so dark shadows. But if i can touch glow a little little bit i will adjust better.
Ground reflectance i find very necesary for maintain the dark shadows not too much dark.

I am testing lots of tricks and have almost a perfect result already. Maybe i will post it tomorrow..

Its a pity i cant touch snow texture directly. It would be a way to the solution easily too. But Gloom will do the trick. 
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Planets on February 24, 2016, 10:22:07 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7Pz7CgTnc

Wow, I absolutely love that video, love the idea of manipulating the entire landscape of Earth like you do in Sim City 4 god mode or something, and adding islands or mountains wherever you want.

How long until Outerra will have such direct terrain manipulation on small and large scale, if its even planned? Also, is there anything else like Proland right now out there or will I have no other option and have to download that enormous 20GB Earth terrain dataset if I want to try out the demo and the terrain manipulation for myself like it says on their site.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on February 24, 2016, 10:33:34 pm

Wow, I absolutely love that video, love the idea of manipulating the entire landscape of Earth like you do in Sim City 4 god mode or something, and adding islands or mountains wherever you want.

How long until Outerra will have such direct terrain manipulation on small and large scale, if its even planned? Also, is there anything else like Proland right now out there or will I have no other option and have to download that enormous 20GB Earth terrain dataset if I want to try out the demo and the terrain manipulation for myself like it says on their site.

This was asked by me previously and here is the reply. As for Proland, its kind of a pain in the butt getting it to work, though not as much as it use to be. To see the earth though, yes, you will need that huge download.  =|

Camenis reply: http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=2484.0
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Planets on February 24, 2016, 11:44:04 pm
Camenis reply: http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=2484.0

Ah so it seems like for now we have the scenery editor but later on larger scale terrain manipulation may come. I'm fine with that, I love the scene editor right now for its sheer ease of use and possibilities, I can wait for a "planet sculptor" feature later (I love that term), I have always wanted to try something like Sim City 4's terrain sculpting applied on a much larger scale and Outerra seems like the perfect game for it. The Middle Earth map is kind of a taste of what might be possible in the future maybe, but that was achieved using heightmaps or some process like that which I'm not familiar with, but editing the terrain directly like the way you can do now with the roads/level editor on the fly will be incredible.

As for Proland, its kind of a pain in the butt getting it to work

Indeed, I tried it just now, downloaded the demo files off the site without the Earth data-set yet, just to test if it will work and well it didn't, told me I was missing binaries, all of the ones in the bin folder, so I transferred them all to the demo directory and then it would load and immediately freeze on command prompt.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on February 24, 2016, 11:48:19 pm
Camenis reply: http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=2484.0

Ah so it seems like for now we have the scenery editor but later on larger scale terrain manipulation may come. I'm fine with that, I love the scene editor right now for its sheer ease of use and possibilities, I can wait for a "planet sculptor" feature later (I love that term), I have always wanted to try something like Sim City 4's terrain sculpting applied on a much larger scale and Outerra seems like the perfect game for it. The Middle Earth map is kind of a taste of what might be possible in the future maybe, but that was achieved using heightmaps or some process like that which I'm not familiar with, but editing the terrain directly like the way you can do now with the roads/level editor on the fly will be incredible.

As for Proland, its kind of a pain in the butt getting it to work

Indeed, I tried it just now, downloaded the demo files off the site without the Earth data-set yet, just to test if it will work and well it didn't, told me I was missing binaries, all of the ones in the bin folder, so I transferred them all to the demo directory and then it would load and immediately freeze on command prompt.

Just Imagine all the work this guy must have done to get it all transferred into Unity! https://scrawkblog.com/2014/05/19/proland-to-unity-core/
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Planets on February 24, 2016, 11:51:43 pm
Hah holy hell that's beyond my level of understanding, but nice to see it being done, more options is always good.

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 25, 2016, 04:15:26 pm

Oceans have colors computed from light scattering, that depends on the water depth. Besides, would you really want water color from Blue Marble, where it's clearly stated that it's been done that way just to make the oceans more interesting to look at when the BM data are used as maps. Real color is plain, except for shallow seas.
OT uses physical phenomena rendering to make it parametric. One thing that would be compatible with OT way would be adding maps that define, for example, how much bio stuff is in the sea (amount of oxygen in upper parts and stuff like that) so it can be included in the computation.

The data are wavelet-compressed so the size should be much smaller than that.

Landsat data are available for free, but the amount of processing needed is huge. The main problem are the clouds and the need to stitch the satellite scans together in seamless way. There are providers that offer the processed data, like TruEarth (http://www.truearth.com/products/TE_15m_specs.htm), but the prices start from $39,950 for uncompressed global data. GeoSage (http://www.geosage.com/highview/dataproducts.html) has better prices, however these seem to contain many visual artifacts.

We already got data for global 30m forest coverage and water bodies. These also happen to contain the red band of satellite data (together with near-infrared that's used for vegetation density computation), and it may be possible to use it to refine the 500m MODIS color data with it.

No, I meant you do not have to modify the input data, I wouldn't even want an arbitrarily modified surface reflectance to be baked in. The modifications should be expressed in the form of some filter coefficients acting on the source surface reflectance data. A post-processing, because that's basically what you want: you want to alter the real reflectance data to suit your taste. I do not know which filter coefficients I'll be able to expose yet, but I guess it generally could be a 4x4 matrix that multiplies the input YUV/veg color vector, or in a simple form a bias and multiplier for each color component. No simple 'shoping :)


I was seeing earth pics from the iss and its true, the sea in blue marble is exagerated.. So you are right in that. No sense at all to fake it.
No, my intention in this topic  is not exactly buy a personalized way in how outerra look.
What i will try is take all the juice from your engine focusing in the little details around light and colors, always with real references as i do always in my job. 
Trying be as objetive as posible.

I will touch step by step all kind of situations. Day, afternoon, night, and hope can be useful for you developing (or not, if you dont think so, its alright, but i think i will make u trust in my taste a bit..).
Its a "betatester" way of play ur engine and use my "deformation" profesional in it ). 
Its for fun and for take those renders to the limits..

SO now some RAW image from outerra. (with some trick i will explain after)
note: with the old tool for lighting shadows i would get almost the same result of the reference pic.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2lbmkpc.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/xmo9w9.jpg)


Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 25, 2016, 06:31:30 pm
Basically i want try to get even you amazed about how your own engine can look with some tweak
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 25, 2016, 06:48:46 pm
Seriosly. Continuing with this. Now thaat i have a breath from my life and job.. 
I am near from my target result for the actual stage of outerra..

Important here.. Its not photoshop at all. Directly from outerra. So its posible to play (amazingly amazing..).
The second image is Outerra default conf. And the third is my intermediate config.

Little details i tried to improve. The lack of color in outerra in general, i increased a bit the saturation, and the lack of sharpeness coveral when increase scattering (see the mountain at right). Also in this sharpening improved a bit the contrast.
This image dont have low scattering, has about 30. So the shadows places will not suffer. This is my limit because increasing it more, the snow will loose the details.
I will explain the tricks in the next days. But the important is show my target of the outerra looking so perfect. Even more than now )
Note: This image is not even doing any justice because look better in game.. In the procces from take screenshot from keyboard, save it in photoshop, and upload here, the image is not exactly the same as i see inside outerra, where is much better

(http://i63.tinypic.com/28q9tx.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/rky5qs.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/op4w1y.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 25, 2016, 07:06:03 pm
r
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Planets on February 25, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Wow, I really like that third pic, less blue haze nearby, muted but still strong greens, and deep blue sky, although the sky in the first pic looks pretty good too.

Edit: Although, looking at this pic, shouldn't the blue haze actually appear closer than it does in the third image? Since that seems to reflect real life atmospheric perspective a bit better-

(http://i.imgur.com/Oc17xdf.jpg)

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 25, 2016, 10:36:04 pm
Wow, I really like that third pic, less blue haze nearby, muted but still strong greens, and deep blue sky, although the sky in the first pic looks pretty good too.

Edit: Although, looking at this pic, shouldn't the blue haze actually appear closer than it does in the third image? Since that seems to reflect real life atmospheric perspective a bit better-

(http://i.imgur.com/Oc17xdf.jpg)

In the other picture the sun was up (14:30).  Now i made a coincidence where sun fall just in front of the picture.
This picture is in the same mode first picture from my last post. I just changed the hour and data sun position.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2n6x3xg.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Planets on February 25, 2016, 10:47:41 pm
Ahh I see, it looks really good still and the haze is there too, neat.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 26, 2016, 12:01:13 am
Now thats pure Red, pure love
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2upyex4.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Acetone on February 26, 2016, 05:19:14 am
You should test your atmos and color setting at different altitudes and position on earth. I noticed one could look really good at a set location, and completely off at an other one. The best solution would be adaptive presets, switching from one config to an other, specified by latitude, biome, elevation, time of year, day or night...
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 26, 2016, 06:38:30 am
You should test your atmos and color setting at different altitudes and position on earth. I noticed one could look really good at a set location, and completely off at an other one. The best solution would be adaptive presets, switching from one config to an other, specified by latitude, biome, elevation, time of year, day or night...

Hi, you are right. The settings look great in all the conditions.  The aspects i focused was more color, more sharpeness, and more contrast. The 3 things i always wanted to change in OUterra, where all of three aspects  are more difuminated.
This make all look better in any position, even objets. They look more defined and with pure colors.

I will upload more situations (and some video soon). I was preparing one picture of the PIrineos from a plane (have the real picture). So you will look the accurate with the reality.  But i cant change snow conf!  Something very rare. In my world.cfg are not appearing the lines from snow configuration (virtelev and so on). 
NO prob because i have those lines from another game-saves in the past. So i copy-paste lines. But NO effect at all. So my pirineos are not covered in snow like in the pic. 
Anybody experienced that? So rare :(
Note: It seems anytime i open outerra my world.cfg loose those snow lines i add.. I re-paste but no changes, and loose again when open the engine
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Acetone on February 26, 2016, 06:42:29 am
But i cant change snow conf!  Something very rare. In my world.cfg are not appearing the lines from snow configuration (virtelev and so on). 

Go to your user folder/data/earth/planet.cfg. Snow parameters were moved here as well as various other stuff (forests, clouds, sun,...) :)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 26, 2016, 01:27:10 pm
But i cant change snow conf!  Something very rare. In my world.cfg are not appearing the lines from snow configuration (virtelev and so on). 

Go to your user folder/data/earth/planet.cfg. Snow parameters were moved here as well as various other stuff (forests, clouds, sun,...) :)
Thank you!
Here you have a picture from comercial airplane altitude 10.500 mt.

Picture reference, real picture from airplane
(http://i68.tinypic.com/339it1g.jpg)


This is my final result
(http://i68.tinypic.com/f55aae.jpg)


Default settings from outerra
(http://i64.tinypic.com/mtpah0.jpg)


Intermediate personalized conf
(http://i66.tinypic.com/vfkxp4.jpg)



Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on February 26, 2016, 05:01:58 pm
Picture reference, real picture from airplane

No. A picture captured by a camera, that was adjusted by the camera software and photoshop. You may like the adjustments, but it's not real. It's actually hard to define what "real" means; we would be talking spectrum and raw intensities, but brain does a lot of magic with white balance and color perception.
Personally I can say I have never seen anything bluish and contrasting like that from aircraft. The pictures look nice, in some way, but they also feel artificial to me, just like promo photos from sea resorts or similar.

One day we'll add postprocess settings for saturation and contrast and maybe make some presets so everyone can pick one aligned with their bias ;)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 27, 2016, 08:19:20 am
Picture reference, real picture from airplane

No. A picture captured by a camera, that was adjusted by the camera software and photoshop. You may like the adjustments, but it's not real. It's actually hard to define what "real" means; we would be talking spectrum and raw intensities, but brain does a lot of magic with white balance and color perception.
Personally I can say I have never seen anything bluish and contrasting like that from aircraft. The pictures look nice, in some way, but they also feel artificial to me, just like promo photos from sea resorts or similar.

One day we'll add postprocess settings for saturation and contrast and maybe make some presets so everyone can pick one aligned with their bias ;)

Hi Cameni. Totally agree with you. For that i use pics as reference, position, and some aspects (color saturation, etc), but my real references are what my eyes see. I always used that in my job. I didnt even wanted to match the real pic to avoid this blue color bleding.. (while it was posible).
Also depend on the camera settings, if same camera take a pic inside plane probably end up in a dark image.
Our eyes are adaptative. This is the real challenge in Outerra. Make a entire world with not burned whites and not making shadows so dark. 
 
But when you work your engine and try take it to the limits, you see is a piece of art. It looks like athmosphere have a few options, but all those options make almost all posibilities (i just still miss a lot the shadows exposure tool, and a negative bleach tool would be amazing too). And also can handle with so clear horizon and very defined far mountains. I was tired about engines with blurry far mountains... So i focus in that for take out all that outerra potentially have.

I try to take advantage from that, and reproduce a so so clear day where you can see a perfect horizon (while having atmosphere of course, if you put it to zero end up in a ugly fake, my pictures have a 0.30 value).
And personally i love colors.  i had a phase where i desaturate renders (coz is a way to hide the color fails in renders).. But when i go out and see life, i see colors, a car is pure red, blue, etc.. And also the mountains-trees. A good point to meassure is the sky, here the sky is very blue. At least in my place, south of Spain.
Normally in a render i always need to postproduce for saturate and contrast it properly. Thats normal so a postprocess tools inside engine would be always great, needed, and a very valuable plus.

The colors in the terrain are very visible, but i added the red plane to the picture where we can see his color is pure red and all the image is defined. Avoid that undefined effect by atmosphere in the near horizon. We can see atmospherics effects but in the far. This sharpeness and colors make a indescriptible sensation while you are flying.. And outerra handle SO FAR so good with those extra colors and sharpeness.

This is a nice reference for example, for match colors and contrasts in a very clear day. And Outerra can afford that as i am testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC8-uniOb24
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on February 27, 2016, 11:03:16 am
But when you work your engine and try take it to the limits, you see is a piece of art. It looks like athmosphere have a few options, but all those options make almost all posibilities (i just still miss a lot the shadows exposure tool, and a negative bleach tool would be amazing too). And also can handle with so clear horizon and very defined far mountains. I was tired about engines with blurry far mountains... So i focus in that for take out all that outerra potentially have.

We re-added the shadow lighting back for the next version. Otherwise all parameters are for physical properties, except for global scattering reduction. That one reduces haze that is realistically supposed to be there, but 1.0 seems to be too much.

Quote
When i go out and see life, i see colors, a car is pure red, blue, etc.. And also the mountains-trees. A good point to meassure is the sky, here the sky is very blue. At least in my place, south of Spain.
Normally in a render i always need to postproduce for saturate and contrast it properly. Thats normal so a postprocess tools inside engine would be always great, needed, and a very valuable plus.

An interesting scientific look at the perception, based on the famous gold-blue dress problem.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/science/the-science-behind-the-dress-color.html?smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur

Quote
In one study, Michael Webster, a psychologist from the University of Nevada, Reno, places blame for Dressgate on the ambiguity of the color blue, and people’s inability to reliably discern blue objects from blue lighting. He said that our vision was good at telling if we were looking at a white paper in red light, or a red paper in white light, but that process did not work easily for all colors, and blue tends to be problematic.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/05/15/science/15dressgraphic2/15dressgraphic2-master180.png)
When Dr. Webster inverted the colors of the dress, 95 percent of his participants said they saw the colors yellow and black.

Quote
A 2015 scientific study with 1,400 respondents found that 57% saw the dress as blue and black, 30% as white and gold and about 10% as blue and brown, while approximately 10% could switch between any of the colour combinations.

So I'm a white-gold person, but I see the inverted dress as yellow-blue, not yellow-black.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Jagerbomber on February 27, 2016, 02:01:30 pm
Oh god it's back....

IT WAS BLUE AND BLACK!  ON A TERRIBLE CAMERA!  IN TERRIBLE LIGHTING!  MAYBE EVEN BEHIND GLASS!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 27, 2016, 02:02:46 pm
But when you work your engine and try take it to the limits, you see is a piece of art. It looks like athmosphere have a few options, but all those options make almost all posibilities (i just still miss a lot the shadows exposure tool, and a negative bleach tool would be amazing too). And also can handle with so clear horizon and very defined far mountains. I was tired about engines with blurry far mountains... So i focus in that for take out all that outerra potentially have.

We re-added the shadow lighting back for the next version. Otherwise all parameters are for physical properties, except for global scattering reduction. That one reduces haze that is realistically supposed to be there, but 1.0 seems to be too much.

Quote
When i go out and see life, i see colors, a car is pure red, blue, etc.. And also the mountains-trees. A good point to meassure is the sky, here the sky is very blue. At least in my place, south of Spain.
Normally in a render i always need to postproduce for saturate and contrast it properly. Thats normal so a postprocess tools inside engine would be always great, needed, and a very valuable plus.

An interesting scientific look at the perception, based on the famous gold-blue dress problem.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/science/the-science-behind-the-dress-color.html?smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur

Quote
In one study, Michael Webster, a psychologist from the University of Nevada, Reno, places blame for Dressgate on the ambiguity of the color blue, and people’s inability to reliably discern blue objects from blue lighting. He said that our vision was good at telling if we were looking at a white paper in red light, or a red paper in white light, but that process did not work easily for all colors, and blue tends to be problematic.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/05/15/science/15dressgraphic2/15dressgraphic2-master180.png)
When Dr. Webster inverted the colors of the dress, 95 percent of his participants said they saw the colors yellow and black.

Quote
A 2015 scientific study with 1,400 respondents found that 57% saw the dress as blue and black, 30% as white and gold and about 10% as blue and brown, while approximately 10% could switch between any of the colour combinations.

So I'm a white-gold person, but I see the inverted dress as yellow-blue, not yellow-black.

Im in your team. White-gold and Yellow-blue ))
Great hear we will see again the shadows option. Even while i personally love dark contrasts.
I made some more images today while i have a bit time..  I will post them
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 27, 2016, 02:22:49 pm
New images. Another step. I think i am almost in the finish. From here i dont even see how i can improve the results.

I choosed here a contrasted and "dark" way similar like in the drone video i posted before.  But easily can put higher lighting without problem.

Again, focus in the same. Get the perfect color and maximize a lot (now even more) the definition (see mountains in far, plane, houses, etc).

Outerra at its amazing limits....


My final result
(http://i64.tinypic.com/34rakoh.png)

This is the same picture but less agressive, more balanced and lighted
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2cdjkn.png)

Intermediate
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2q01pw8.jpg)

Default from ooterra
(http://i65.tinypic.com/eqcrd5.png)

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 27, 2016, 02:36:07 pm
Now some near detail using a building.
Here you can see clearly all more defined.


Final result
(http://i67.tinypic.com/28sm2s9.png)

Intermediate
(http://i67.tinypic.com/x38ie0.png)

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on February 27, 2016, 03:25:42 pm
As Cameni said, maybe there will be the option to define color presets, eventually. It would certainly be a cool feature!
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Acetone on February 27, 2016, 03:46:09 pm
New images. Another step. I think i am almost in the finish. From here i dont even see how i can improve the results.
I choosed here a contrasted and "dark" way similar like in the drone video i posted before.  But easily can put higher lighting without problem.
Again, focus in the same. Get the perfect color and maximize a lot (now even more) the definition (see mountains in far, plane, houses, etc).
Outerra at its amazing limits....

The first picture seems too much over-saturated (for me), the blacks especially don't feel really natural, almost agressive. #2 is a good balance. From my past tests, scattering is the value most people have the most problem with, one of the reasons why they describe OT as "foggy" sometimes. I did some experiments with locations I really know, with actual time of day and sort of accurate weather.
Well, in fact, the only problem here is that the parameter should be dynamic (it's not the case, since OT weather is static), because scattering can change a lot. Strong winds ? -> Less particles, and you can get a view as clear as in your first screen. Hot day in summer, in a very dry area ? You will get something way above the OT default setting. Add to that ambient humidity and you will get a very limited view distance, even a clear day.

I like those color related experiments, makes you realize how nice it is to be able to tweak all those parameters on the fly in OT, everybody can have what he enjoys the most :)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 27, 2016, 05:17:17 pm
New images. Another step. I think i am almost in the finish. From here i dont even see how i can improve the results.
I choosed here a contrasted and "dark" way similar like in the drone video i posted before.  But easily can put higher lighting without problem.
Again, focus in the same. Get the perfect color and maximize a lot (now even more) the definition (see mountains in far, plane, houses, etc).
Outerra at its amazing limits....

The first picture seems too much over-saturated (for me), the blacks especially don't feel really natural, almost agressive. #2 is a good balance. From my past tests, scattering is the value most people have the most problem with, one of the reasons why they describe OT as "foggy" sometimes. I did some experiments with locations I really know, with actual time of day and sort of accurate weather.
Well, in fact, the only problem here is that the parameter should be dynamic (it's not the case, since OT weather is static), because scattering can change a lot. Strong winds ? -> Less particles, and you can get a view as clear as in your first screen. Hot day in summer, in a very dry area ? You will get something way above the OT default setting. Add to that ambient humidity and you will get a very limited view distance, even a clear day.

I like those color related experiments, makes you realize how nice it is to be able to tweak all those parameters on the fly in OT, everybody can have what he enjoys the most :)

Hey. I think its because i used as i said very agressive configuration about dark and contrast, for match the video drone.
The second is more balanced (now the third, because the second will be the other final version i have with more light and less agressive conf). 
but also this "third" picture lacks on definition a bit, all the colors are more disperse and contrastless. SO blacks are not so dark.  This was precissely what i was wanting to avoid. Generating a pure clear day with big contrast and definition. 
The definition diference you can see between one and the other is the key, then its a matter of increase lighting.

Luckily I have another pic less dark.  So i´ll post it too.
All the tweaks are ongame, but not all are outerra exclusively.  But this means i can fly with those settings and ultra color contrast and definition. What is so amazing sensation..

I will add this picture in the other post so you can see there also for compare.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2cdjkn.png)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on February 27, 2016, 06:56:27 pm
New images. Another step. I think i am almost in the finish. From here i dont even see how i can improve the results.
I choosed here a contrasted and "dark" way similar like in the drone video i posted before.  But easily can put higher lighting without problem.
Again, focus in the same. Get the perfect color and maximize a lot (now even more) the definition (see mountains in far, plane, houses, etc).
Outerra at its amazing limits....

Well, in fact, the only problem here is that the parameter should be dynamic (it's not the case, since OT weather is static), because scattering can change a lot. Strong winds ? -> Less particles, and you can get a view as clear as in your first screen. Hot day in summer, in a very dry area ? You will get something way above the OT default setting. Add to that ambient humidity and you will get a very limited view distance, even a clear day.

Dynamic might solve a lot of perceived issues......
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on February 28, 2016, 12:15:06 pm
Dynamic might solve a lot of perceived issues......

I'm not sure. Currently it's right for certain time of day and day of year and atmospheric setting, but people complain that it's not right because of their selected real-world experience at a different time, or worse, in a different game/simulator that doesn't even use a real-time physical atmospheric scattering. If it was dynamic, yeah we could say it's currently such air condition.

The atmospheric model is incomplete, but the problem is that it can only get more hazy if we add more variables. If you turn off Mie scattering (one from water vapor), what remains is scattering from air molecules, free of any dust. What the scattering coefficient slider does is thinning out the air, lowering real atmospheric pressure to get a sharper image.

IMHO, it's again mostly about perception and personal preference, not so much about realism. We would all like the real views to be as sharp as photoshopped ones, but when I try to recall any real one I ever saw, it was far from those.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 28, 2016, 04:19:36 pm
Dynamic might solve a lot of perceived issues......

I'm not sure. Currently it's right for certain time of day and day of year and atmospheric setting, but people complain that it's not right because of their selected real-world experience at a different time, or worse, in a different game/simulator that doesn't even use a real-time physical atmospheric scattering. If it was dynamic, yeah we could say it's currently such air condition.

The atmospheric model is incomplete, but the problem is that it can only get more hazy if we add more variables. If you turn off Mie scattering (one from water vapor), what remains is scattering from air molecules, free of any dust. What the scattering coefficient slider does is thinning out the air, lowering real atmospheric pressure to get a sharper image.

IMHO, it's again mostly about perception and personal preference, not so much about realism. We would all like the real views to be as sharp as photoshopped ones, but when I try to recall any real one I ever saw, it was far from those.

Its well explained Cameni. And this is very useful for complete my explanation also in this point and what i am trying. And where i think the problem can be after time thinking on it.

You are right, in the life things are not that sharp. But the life has more variety and range of colors. Like we see in drone video, all is sharp when we see around near (100-200-500  meters, some Kilometer). And then we begin to see the atmosphere effects slowly. 
For this reason, My point of view here, after a long think in colors, lights haze, etc, is..   I love the haze and atmospherics effects in outerra because you made an amazing math atmosphere. But at the same time, all get a bit more monotonous and less sharpen, even near. I think this is the thing around this.

So, faking atmosphere it was a good idea and maybe even necesary, because we are not flying still over the real world. Our world in outerra still dont have all the colors with the 500 m earth textures. Also in the real life we have a longer range, like high dinamic range of colors. Many objets and diferent colors all over, etc. So the atmospheric eefects in a clear day end up in a "clear" view full of details and colors.
when we increase the haze in Outerra we get a less defined world and more monotonous (parts all light and parts all dark). This together with the little problem in get equilibirum between highlights and shadows, make the world too dark if u want more sharpen and less haze, or more white but less sharpen if u put higher. This is for me the quid of the question around haze, lights, etc.

This was my focus all the time. Sharpeness and colors. And at least for me, after looong trying, this problem ended. Now i enjoy flying in a 0.50, 0.75 or even 1 scattering.
I will post a little video where i show images with the tweaks in sharpen and color, and with high scattering numbers.

In light, with a few tweaks is almost all done and nice in Outerra. The only little problem i find is to get equilibrium between white parts and dark parts. The shadows lighting tool will be very useful again in this  update, and maybe a negative bleach too (i dont know if this filter would be very dificult to implement). But without it, i used something that worked. Getting the rock texture a bit darker in photoshop. Because the top mountains was too much white. I dont know if there is a way to make a texture absorb less high light, so keep less lighting even in this situation (everest for example). That i can do in max, Blender, etc. but maybe the problem is in the texture bluemarble itself.. The top of mountains are more lighted, and this together with a lot of sun, end in a too white mountain.
I tried the same with the snow but i didnt find the texture. I think we cant touch texture snow. Any chance for make this posible in the future? 
It would be a good posibility for equilibrate all. Because main problem in burn whites is snow (and clouds, but here is more natural, maybe anyway make clouds color/light redefined by user would be also great).
This, at least without Global Ilumination.  Maybe in the future you will also implement it i dont know.


Another point will be the afternoon in outerra. There i see all a bit too dark when the sun just dissapear, even increasing scattering. But this is another history, i will talk after about it. 

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on February 28, 2016, 04:40:08 pm
Also your idea about the 15 m textures is a mindblowing.....   NOTHING is like outerra in the actual status. And with a real earth complete colors..  I cant imagine it..  15 meters is enough for see all the earth variation textures, all the fields, the crops.. Etc..
I know is expensive.. i was seeing the prices from blue marble 15 m and all was like 30.000 $.. Maybe try with one little area would be good idea because buy little part can be inexpensive. So you can experiment and show the results..
Maybe if you talk with this people and ask for some downgrade? Like 50 m in 7.000 $ or so...  50 m would be still a great variety for outerra (10 times more than now). With the posibility of buying complete in the future paying the diference.. Because for me this is the incredible future of outerra...

Another posibility. If you make something for give money and buy this 15 m textures, i will put some money )). Or even "rebuy" with 15 $ again. Just you would need 2.000 actual owners rebuying it again.. I would do for sure! Because this would be in fact another game.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on February 28, 2016, 09:40:54 pm
Also your idea about the 15 m textures is a mindblowing.....   NOTHING is like outerra in the actual status. And with a real earth complete colors..  I cant imagine it..  15 meters is enough for see all the earth variation textures, all the fields, the crops.. Etc..
I know is expensive.. i was seeing the prices from blue marble 15 m and all was like 30.000 $.. Maybe try with one little area would be good idea because buy little part can be inexpensive. So you can experiment and show the results..
Maybe if you talk with this people and ask for some downgrade? Like 50 m in 7.000 $ or so...  50 m would be still a great variety for outerra (10 times more than now). With the posibility of buying complete in the future paying the diference.. Because for me this is the incredible future of outerra...

Another posibility. If you make something for give money and buy this 15 m textures, i will put some money )). Or even "rebuy" with 15 $ again. Just you would need 2.000 actual owners rebuying it again.. I would do for sure! Because this would be in fact another game.

$30,000? That's whut kickstarters are for! (Though maybe what Outerra really needs is a rich sugar-daddy)  =D
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: cameni on February 29, 2016, 09:04:35 am
Cheaper global imagery sources are unusable, being reconstructed from IR bands. Those colors are way off and you can see seams from how the tiles were glued together everywhere. But even the more expensive ones have various faults in the samples they publish as demo data, supposedly the best ones selected ...

It took me some time but I got a 4.4TB of satellite data with surface reflectance values (i.e corrected atmo effects) in 30m resolution. This should be a good basis to create a dataset usable for OT, but of course that's still a long way ahead.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: ZeosPantera on March 03, 2016, 02:26:47 am
Finally a topic I can sit an look at..
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 04, 2016, 07:44:47 pm
Finally a topic I can sit an look at..

Thanks!  You will have new things to see today. I will post some images from all my testings (some are already in screenshot thread).
And also my (almost) final explanations and conclussions.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 24, 2016, 04:51:54 am
Its some week since i told for put conclusions, but lack of time and i made lotsss more testings. I always try to improve things so i will not say this is final results (but they are at the moment and i am amazed with them).
What i can say is.. Its the first time in ALL my whole life, having the feelling with a game/engine that im flying in a real world.. 

I love this image.. So this will be the first example of i am talking about.
(Note: i changed color saturation not in huge way, just for get my real colors configuration and the blue electric sky i was looking for. Also i didnt quit any of the haze, are images for any place, not only in very clear days. Even are a bit more hazy (but more detailed). So those things will not bother for explain the improves).
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2hek138.png)

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: nothinglikethesun on March 24, 2016, 05:31:33 am
Hi Josem. Avesome pic! Can you post your settings ?
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 24, 2016, 07:23:37 am
Few more examples. (After i will be puting before and after focusing in the diferent improves).
All are with the same settings for all the diferent conditions. Which was a huge dare..

This way (and the example pic before) remind me Vue.. But Vue is a SLOW render and now Outerra can even look at least similar in real time..  Cameni, your dream to reach Terragen is going higher...
(http://i66.tinypic.com/29zsy2s.png)

Its like you want be there fighting with the x-wing.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1264c5c.png)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2qb7ngp.png)

As i said Haze was there and even bigger (0.75 and up in scattering)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2m4akd5.png)


(http://i64.tinypic.com/287ggt0.png)


(http://i65.tinypic.com/2lw50dc.png)

Aerial
(http://i67.tinypic.com/n1b3as.png)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/vziq89.png)

This is pure Outerra.. And sun is burning the machines
(http://i68.tinypic.com/a0uvz4.png)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: 2eyed on March 24, 2016, 10:10:09 am
Hi Josem. Avesome pic! Can you post your settings ?
His settings seem to be his secret :)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on March 24, 2016, 10:40:45 am
Hi Josem. Avesome pic! Can you post your settings ?
His settings seem to be his secret :)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/54266080_zpsngrpjkat.jpg)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: nothinglikethesun on March 24, 2016, 10:44:44 am
Few more examples. (After i will be puting before and after focusing in the diferent improves).
All are with the same settings for all the diferent conditions. Which was a huge dare..

This way (and the example pic before) remind me Vue.. But Vue is a SLOW render and now Outerra can even look at least similar in real time..  Cameni, your dream to reach Terragen is going higher...
(http://i66.tinypic.com/29zsy2s.png)

Its like you want be there fighting with the x-wing.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1264c5c.png)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2qb7ngp.png)

As i said Haze was there and even bigger (0.75 and up in scattering)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2m4akd5.png)


(http://i64.tinypic.com/287ggt0.png)


(http://i65.tinypic.com/2lw50dc.png)

Aerial
(http://i67.tinypic.com/n1b3as.png)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/vziq89.png)

This is pure Outerra.. And sun is burning the machines
(http://i68.tinypic.com/a0uvz4.png)

Secret? I hope not! :-)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: 2eyed on March 24, 2016, 04:06:53 pm
I do understand the intensions of josem75 quite well. Man, did I do a lot of slider draging in OT over the last couple of years! Don't forget the waters josem, this is a different beast to get right. In combination with skies almost undoable with current state of the engine.

Here is a toned down version of your vision (at least less bloom).
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on March 24, 2016, 05:22:54 pm
I do understand the intensions of josem75 quite well. Man, did I do a lot of slider draging in OT over the last couple of years! Don't forget the waters josem, this is a different beast to get right. In combination with skies almost undoable with current state of the engine.

Here is a toned down version of your vision (at least less bloom).

That is an extremely low res pic. Can't really see much!
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 24, 2016, 06:09:24 pm

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Multitesseract/54266080_zpsngrpjkat.jpg)

Hahaha. Not at all.

I do understand the intensions of josem75 quite well. Man, did I do a lot of slider draging in OT over the last couple of years! Don't forget the waters josem, this is a different beast to get right. In combination with skies almost undoable with current state of the engine.

Here is a toned down version of your vision (at least less bloom).

We are profesional Sliders in Outerra xD.
Many people are doing nice tasks in here. I though in this light and color task i was able to spend some nice time and give some nice conclusions too. As long as i needed to "fight" with colors since long time in my 3d proyects.   

At the begining i was showing less hazy images, focusing in clear days. Now i am respecting the original Outerra light (which is very very good for not being Global Ilumination). I like the Haze, i just tried to give enough detail for have a nice hazy effect, where you see very detail near and less detail far. (i will explain with images after).

I cant see your numbers, but for the slider positions, those settings are in fact very very similar to the settings i use as Outerra base Settings.
Hight terrain reflexion (Looks better, and also for avoid very dark shadows until we have the option again).  Clear sky with low red, middle green and high blue. And average scattering. I use a bit higher, 0.75 and more (plus extra bloom), because after when i add more detail still looks great, its a plus.  But i can also easily move for less hazy/more clear day/imge.

My Base Outerra Settings, taking in account after i add extra-things.. If pure Outerra then can be some changes, for example go expusure 2 instead 1.50. Or maybe slow down scattering a bit, etc.
 (http://i64.tinypic.com/ad2e1h.png)

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: HiFlyer on March 24, 2016, 06:09:37 pm
You know, maybe the solution that would cause the least headaches for the Devs is to make a full set of color controls available (hue, saturation, brightness, contrast etc) and allow people to create personalized color profiles that can be saved and swapped.........
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 24, 2016, 06:24:33 pm
You know, maybe the solution that would cause the least headaches for the Devs is to make a full set of color controls available (hue, saturation, brightness, contrast etc) and allow people to create personalized color profiles that can be saved and swapped.........

This is a very easy filter and would add a great control. But go deeper in this task, for those results i exposed  is necesary a bit more. Because i did some more things, i added extra detail, extra refletions, bloom, etc. In fact in my last images i almost didnt touch the base saturation, bright, etc. The colors are almost what you have in Outerra (minor retouch).  But its posible to make more saturated, less, depending of the anybody taste.
I would say.. With 3 filters (one being color-sat, etc, and two filters more).. You would have the BEST engine out there (taking in account for me is already the best, but even better). And taking a minor impact in the framerate. In my config its not even 4 or 5 frames less for take out those images.   
But working them inside the engine, posibilities are endless and maybe performance can be even enhanced, compared to use extra engine filters.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on March 24, 2016, 06:35:07 pm
Another thing that would help strongly, is take control of the snow. I have modified my rock texture (darker). And for match all the conditions i would like to touch Snow color too (get a bit darker too, like rocks).
Can be just modify color, and also the reflectance (a reflectance for snow). 
It was huge task get only one settings configuration for match all the situations (including himalayas). If we can have also a bit control there, this task would be a bit easier.
This would be a question for Cameni. If in future version we can control Snow. My case, i would just get a bit darker for match better all the conditions (go even up in exposure and reflections, without get burned in himalayas).
In the future a good idea can be store diferent settings, and toggle them with a key.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 01, 2018, 05:50:42 pm
After several time trying to find an optimal configuration. A lot of testing diferent of mixed parameters (from inside and outside outerra), I finally can say myself i found a great result.

My focus was get a terrain less washed, more focused, and with less "fog" in short distance, but at the same time have the atmosphere natural fog in far (while near is more detailed).
The first and second images are a great example of it.
 
A big point was the sky color and intensity, which im now very happy with it. And a terrain fixed colors in greens and browns (i quit a lot of green intensity, also in trees, that way looks more natural).
So a really great way to know if you are in almost real place, its see this contrast between a mountain with their greens fields and green trees, and the blue Sky.
(since the third image are examples of this. But note, that flying inside outerra the feellings are much stronger than just in some pictures).

You know you have a great result when your eyes almost believe you are there for real based in this contrast Green and blue sky, because is something that your eyes can recognize very fast and automatically.

Another important points was, improve the terrain little details (adding a filter), and the rocks and the rocky snow, ading a little bit effect of blur in almost white parts (blur with gloom), but still mixed with sharpen in the near distance. So the result is totally real rocks with the blur while all the terrain is still more sharpen.



Now that i have the result i was looking for, i will share ALL the parameters and things needed, from inside and outside (but live) Outerra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpmmnnz7U2o&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: aWac9 on April 01, 2018, 06:58:53 pm
In my graph for example I see it with too much contrast. But it must be something personal, each one perceives reality in several ways ... If you see it well and it's your choice I'm glad you got it, I can tell you that I'm unable to find the balance of color but outerra as is it is very well achieved.
It is in the luminosity where I lose myself.

regards
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 01, 2018, 07:18:30 pm
In my graph for example I see it with too much contrast. But it must be something personal, each one perceives reality in several ways ... If you see it well and it's your choice I'm glad you got it, I can tell you that I'm unable to find the balance of color but outerra as is it is very well achieved.
It is in the luminosity where I lose myself.

regards

I will upload all the tweaks and programs necesary (reshade mediator).
The less important is the quanty of saturation, as long as anybody can quit a little bit.
The only i saturated more is blue. The greens are less saturated than the original, which are very high and unreal.
One thing i tried is this, get the blue sky intense, as in real life can be. Not only giving more saturation, its also a bloom effect afecting the blue channel. Because its the effect of the sky, blue "electric".
Maybe is the comparisson between outerra raw sky, which is a bit turn off, which make feelling image is oversaturated.

But here in "la costa del sol" my eyes see amazing colors and intense blue electric sky.
When im flying inside outerra what i feell is something "real".

I will put a image where we can see better the comparisson.

This is the best example to see the changes. This is my place and i can tell you very good how it looks. And this way looks amazing and realistic, compared to how i can get from Outerra Raw at maximum.

The important is the supression of greens, the contrasts, the glooms, the blurs and sharpens while make rocks much more realistic (because blur gloom affect to rocks and snow and blur them, making look much more real).
Also the amount of details compared to outerra raw that you can see. Much more details.

And for me, this image tweaked is not oversaturated in this example, compared with what i see here in my real life.
But as i said this is the less, because its very easy to quit a bit or put more depending on everyone taste.

Also, the only having more saturation is blue. The other colors have less saturations. Greens are less saturated, looking more natural. Also add details and some contrast make image almost real now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gbBudzdtUo&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 01, 2018, 07:45:30 pm
To put more in perspective. The first image is outerra raw, i didnt add any saturation. Second is with my fixes.
The first is much more saturated. In general, in greens and browns. Compared to my fixes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCx0eWMjWPE&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: Jagerbomber on April 02, 2018, 12:33:12 am
Isn't there a chance that whatever you're using to record with changes the color in the video?

(And of course not to mention Youtube processing and everyone's displays being different).

But I've known recording software to change the colors from what it actually looks like.

Or does it seem about the same to you?  (Your modified Outerra and the uploaded video).
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 02, 2018, 05:38:21 am
Isn't there a chance that whatever you're using to record with changes the color in the video?

(And of course not to mention Youtube processing and everyone's displays being different).

But I've known recording software to change the colors from what it actually looks like.

Or does it seem about the same to you?  (Your modified Outerra and the uploaded video).


Yes. Colors can change a lot in the record process and everyones screens. The best is fix as Awac said, at everyone´s taste.
I will give the guide for the main changes, then what to change for go a bit more or bit less saturation or blue intensity, according with screen, personal taste, etc.

I am trying to find the mediator reshade download page as the version i use, which is perfect and very easy to use (it has own display, no need to change numbers in txt)
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 02, 2018, 06:07:13 am
http://www.mediafire.com/file/bp1upxv2ya8909q/ReShade+1.1.0f1.7z

here is for download Reshade Mediator. Its very easy.

-Extract rar in a new carpet (can be inside outerra directory but not necesarily). Then execute Mediator.exe (close the txt open with it at first time).

-Then choose ADD, Look for Outerra directory and choose Outerra.exe. Push Confirm.

-Normally OpenGl option should be already on, if not, choose it. And in the right, where you can read Outerra, push Add again. Then push Update. Then push Permanent Push to application.

Now you can see all the list of the fixes tools (pipeline Menu). This is what we use.
You can choose one filter, go in and tweak his numbers, push apply in the up right. Then go back to Setup menu and push Permanent Push to application.
(for some reason, with my mediator i only need to push apply and i see the changes, so its so easy and fast).

You work on the fly. You can have outerra opened, push Scape, and then open Mediator and fix what you want, apply, and see the changes in Outerra in the next second you push apply..

Its very easy after all. Because the previous reshade i knew worked only whriting in txt files, and this was very uncomfortable to work.
I will put all my configuration, outerra and Mediator. So you everyone can test by yourself.


-



Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 02, 2018, 06:24:43 am
In the Outerra configuration:

-We go up in Sun Intensity to 34. Also, i change the white color and use a bit yellow.
For example, 61, 22,85 - 216,217,167.

-We go up in ground reflection, this is important for have a more clear and contrasted terrain. can choose 16 for example.

-Exposure 3.00

-Shadow light 2.6

-Scattering 0,55

-red  5.0
-green 11.0
-Blue  33.5
Mie  0.9


Then i use a trick for have a "fog line" in the distance, which stop the clear view in the far distance (more realistic).
I go up with rain Density to 0,001 (or 0,002 but i preffer 1) in weather. Its posible to go with Snow density to 0.001 instead, to have a harder effect or 0,002.


This is the main changes inside Outerra.
Adicionally, you can change water a bit. Sometimes i like to have more variance, so i go to 0,00 in Scattering Blue Color. Test it and see the coast lines now.

And this is inside outerra configuration. Now i will post the Reshade Mediator configuration. 
Note, that the inside Outerra config is plenty connected with the Mediator adition after. Its the base for the after-filters and is made for them.
Its all like a big puzzle tested where every piece is important for the result.
Title: Re: Lighting and Colouring
Post by: josem75 on April 02, 2018, 06:44:37 am
Now in your Reshade MEdiator Outerra configuration:

Turn on:

- Tonemap -  The important here is change Fog Colorx and Fogcolory to 0,3 each. This will fix the outerra terrain high colors (greens and browns).
Also, go with saturation to -0,3

- LumaSharpen - This is one of the main filters also. Important change here is go with Sharp_Strength to 1.50
This will boost the outerra sharp (dont try to go lower thinking is too much, with follows filters we will correct).

- Bloom - Go to 0,8 bloom power and 20.37 Bloom Threshold

- Crossprocces - Contrast to 1.19  .  Saturation to 1.06 . Brightness 0,013.  CrossAmount 0,05
(this is important for boost the Outerra conttrast).

- Gauss. This filter is very important.
Use GaussianBlur - 1
Blur Strengh 0,49.   Here we are controlling the over sharp with a blur, which affects coveral in longer distances. This will be important when Bloom from Gauss affect to rocks and snow, applying this Blur making them much more natural.
if you want more sharpen, you can go a bit lower or even below 40. But i find more realistic between 45 and 55

Sharp Strength 0,15.  This filter will add aditional detail to outerra floor.

GaussSigma and Gauss Quality to 1 each.

Now Gaussian Bloom - 1 (use).

Strength  -  1
BloomWamth - 2
Threshold - 1
Exposure - 100
Sigma - 4
Bloom Red and Green 1.
BloomBlue 1.5. 
(this value is very important, Here is where we add the blue electric to the sky).
Bloom Quality - 2

TexScale 0 both.

(After apply Gauss filter with all those parameters. Now see your rocks and your rocks snow)..

And this is all.

Now you can fly with all the fixes. For compare, you can turn on and off Reshade effect in outerra view with BloqDespl key in your keyboard. So you can see the diferences on the fly and how all the tweaks work.