Outerra forum
Anteworld - Outerra Game => Tech demo, support, updates => Topic started by: JakeRS on August 24, 2018, 05:29:30 am
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I downloaded the just released version, but I also had the same problem on the version that was downloadable a few months ago.
Basically whether I choose the truck (Tatra, since I only have the demo version) or the plane, Cessna or something, I can't drive them at all, they jump around and rotate like crazy and it doesn't matter what I press, gas, stop, handbrake...
I don't have a joystick or something that could cause this, also I don't have a powerful PC, however I did lower all graphics settings, so I get a ok FPS and more importantly I didn't have a problem with those vehicles a year or two ago when I had a Celeron cpu (currently i5 3450) and 4gb of RAM (now 8gb), and the same GPU I have now, Radeon 7730 2gb, back then I could drive those vehicles without any issues whatsoever. So I don't think that it's a problem with weak hardware, since all other aspects of the game work perfectly fine and I can run any modern AAA title without an issue.
I can post a Youtube video of this happening in case it's needed.
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Here's the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_07_DjB3I8
The only things I pressed on the video were just basic controlls, forward, backward, left and right. When I press left sometimes the entire vehicle moves and rotates to the left, without me pressing forward or backward.
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I have the impression of a "déjà vu" ...
https://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=3824.msg44055#msg44055
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This seems to be happening when some limits are set too low and terrain collision meshes start to get removed from cache. The behavior is wrong here though - it should be able to handle terrain around the camera and under a few vehicles even with lower limits ...
What did you do to lower the graphics settings?
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Shadows, antialiasing, 3d grass and stuff like that, there's an option for terrain resolution I guess, something from 240p to 1080p, lowest option makes ground almost flat and the highest makes it detailed, but lowers the FPS, well I chose every possible setting there, but nothing did anything good or worse.
There's the technical parameters box thing that opens when you press T inside a truck, I tried each and every thing there, tried setting it to default (also tried setting graphics to default btw), but nothing.
Then I went to the sky with the camera, spawned a Cessna and while the Cessna was in the air, it acted extremelly weird, for example I was going slow, kind of stalling, I pressed the down key to make the nose go up, but instead the entire Cessna started going up, like it was a VTOL, like something was pushing it up unnaturally, so whatever it is, it's not just ground related, might be something about my hardware then, maybe the GCN 1 architecture of my GPU, I know that Blender doesn't work with GCN 1, but it works with later gen AMD gpu's, so who knows..
Also, not sure if important, but if I select the gravity option on the camera and move around the map, the camera follows the terrain perfectly, so if camera is limited by the collision, then collision isn't the issue here.
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That's interesting. If collisions are good then GPU should not matter, physics is handled on the CPU side. The only phase where GPU comes into play is when reading generated terrain data back, but if that was corrupted you would not have a good gravity mode too. Pretty weird ...
Does it happen everywhere?
Please attach your eng.log
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Pretty much, I've tried in Greece, Montenegro, Serbia, New York, California and maybe a few more places, and also the sky with Cessna as mentioned already, but it doesn't matter where I am, mountain, coast, plain or hilly terrain.
As for the CPU, my current one is as mentioned an I5 3450, 4 cores, 4 threads at 3.1 ghz, I can run most modern AAA games on medium settings (although lower resolution due to my GPU, could probably even be ultra if I had a better GPU) and the CPU is always limited by the GPU, so I think that the I5 is more than powerful for this task.
Were there any sorts of physics changes that affected the vehicles in the last 2 or 3 years? Back then I had a Celeron G1610 2.6ghz, which was the weakest possible CPU in that generation and I could drive both the truck and the plane.
In the start you can select earth 7 and earth 2, default is 7, but I tried earth 2 as well, but it didn't fix the problem.
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Was this a log from a session where the bug appeared? It doesn't contain much after launching.
Please also set the log level in eng.cfg to debug first.
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I deleted the old eng.log, changed eng.cfg "loglevel" from info to debug, then I did a test run, the truck, I just went forward, backward,etc. and it rotated a lot, I pressed 2 which I guess spawns another truck, but same thing happened.
Then I spawned a Cessna, on the ground, gave it full throttle and it also jumped around, but I managed to get it into air, but it continued acting weird in the air as well, the "VTOL" thing was happening again and then I closed it.
There's a new eng log now with a lot more info, but it's 135KB and site allows only 128KB, so I uploaded it onto Google drive, you can view there without even downloading https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mJrl0l2r3vQq01pTZpMNlE5yW4Sm-i5Z
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Thanks. It's creating tons of terrain collision meshes, even after launching the Cessna, something i would not expect from such a simple test.
Were there any sorts of physics changes that affected the vehicles in the last 2 or 3 years? Back then I had a Celeron G1610 2.6ghz, which was the weakest possible CPU in that generation and I could drive both the truck and the plane.
There were changes, the main one was that previously (maybe 2y ago) only wheels collided with terrain, and we added terrain collision meshes. What you are showing looks like the collision mesh has a weird representation and the chassis collides with it. I can't check now but I think that maybe the gravity mode still uses the original ray check and that's why that one works for you.
I suspect the drivers for that GPU are the problem. When AMD discontinued support there were still many bugs left, even if those cards were capable to support newer features we started adding. According to the log you have Windows XP which we find fascinating to still work, given the limitations in its architecture regarding the shared memory (is it XP64?).
When I check drivers for the card https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/amd-radeon-hd-7000-series/amd-radeon-hd-7730 the support seems to vary wildly depending on the Windows version. For WXP they list Catalyst 14.4, but you seem to have some other version?
Did you try doing a clean reinstall of the drivers?
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Weird, not sure why it says XP, but I have Windows 7 Ultimate with Service Pack 1 patch, got it around 1.5 years ago, previously I had a XP 32 bit, perhaps somehow info on that OS remained on the hard drive, even though I think that it was completely removed prior to installing the new OS. I can now run Windows 7 SP1 only programs, which I wouldn't be able to run even if I had just a Win 7, let alone XP 64 or 32. There's a site called Whatsmyos . com , this is what it says - Your OS is Windows 7* 64-bit * possibly Windows Server 2008 R2
As for the GPU, I think that the drivers are the latest ones, but I install them every 3 to 4 months and I had the same issue with older drivers a year ago.
I am hopefully going to upgrade to a 1050 Ti in a few days and we'll find out for sure if it's the GPU.
I actually just remembered something, prior to the current AMD Radeon 7730, up to october 2016 I had a Nvidia 9400GT or 9800, one of those two, and Windows XP, and that's when I got this GPU, but with the Nvidia one I didn't have any issues, so I guess that it is GPU related after all, I just forgot that that was when I bought this amd card.
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I have the same issue with all vehicles and my video card is an ATI RADEON 7970HD.
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Then there's the issue probably, that's like 7 or 8 times more powerful card, it uses GDDR5 unlike mine ddr3, but both of them use GCN 1, out of all Radeon 7000 series, only the rare 7790 uses GCN 2, but every other, including my 7730 and your 7970 use GCN 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_7000_Series
I know that in Blender you can't render things with GCN 1 cards, but you can if you have a GCN 2 card or anything newer from AMD, this is also probably related somehow.
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We got 7970 too but no such problems (unless it's something new we didn't test on it). But maybe it's also Win version specific, we have it on a Win 10 computer.
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I also have Win 10 Home Edition. In previous version of Outerra (last time that I launch it was couple months ago), I didn’t have such problems.
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Ok this is likely a problem with some late patches for old Nvidia GPUs, and AMD 7k series taking the same code path erroneously ...
Working on a fix.
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Thank you so much for your work. You are doing a great job and Outerra never looks so wonderful. Really excited to see what's coming next!
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So the problem is in newer AMD Catalyst drivers. Back in November 2017 I reported a bug in some timing functions on AMD Vega GPUs. It was fixed some time early in 2018, but apparently the new drivers now broke the same timing functions on 7xxx series.
As a temporary workaround you can install Catalyst from around November 2017 the vehicles will work ok. See https://www.amd.com/en/support/previous-drivers/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/amd-radeon-hd-7000-series/amd-radeon-hd-7970 for older drivers.
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So the problem is in newer AMD Catalyst drivers. Back in November 2017 I reported a bug in some timing functions on AMD Vega GPUs. It was fixed some time early in 2018, but apparently the new drivers now broke the same timing functions on 7xxx series.
I've just installed the latest AMD Catalyst drivers 18.8.1 (optional) released on 17 august 2018 and the issue is almost completely gone (there still some little glitches on ground vehicles). Please note that the 18.8.1 version is marked as "Optional". The latest "stable" version is the 18.5.1, but the good one seems to be the 18.8.1.
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I also installed the newest optional drivers and it works, even one a 2013's entry level ddr3 card. Strange that it didn't work with any of the last 3, 4 drivers I tried with, but now it finally works, I only drove the truck and I'm not really sure if there are glitches or not, but overall it works now.
Also while entering the game after installing the new drivers, there was a new patch that installed, so maybe the patch is the reason why it started working and not the new drivers...or both, I don't know.
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The patch has got some helper clamping so the issue is not that visible even with bad drivers, but you may see some glitches as the interpolation does not work at all in that case.
I tested Catalyst 18.8.1 but the problem is still there.
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The only kind of problem I have now is steering with a keyboard, since my steering wheel broke and the truck seems a little hard to steer with the keyboard, what can I change in the physics box to change that?