Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Off Topic => Topic started by: PytonPago on October 06, 2019, 01:25:05 am
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I just stumbled on this thing ... kinda strange how the terrain is made : MS Flight 20 - interesting world generator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8h6yibHHc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0Qk0Nvk-W0bEQU_yCpv013PjvPGcdX_BOh0k6BsTJbAvo3JL0RQhZqmPM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8h6yibHHc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0Qk0Nvk-W0bEQU_yCpv013PjvPGcdX_BOh0k6BsTJbAvo3JL0RQhZqmPM)
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Terrain making is probably the least strange thing in this new sim. Its just high quality ortophotos plus lots of precisely generated autogen. The more crazy thing is the autogen which seems realistic 3d models (with real textures it seems !) precisely corresponding to real buildings extracted somehow automatically by AI software from bing maps. Also flight model seems really incredibly realistic..as well as real wind and cloud physics..of course it looks also gorgeous.
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Most of the footage they showed off is not autogen terrain but "real" photogrammetry (same as Google does with many locations in GEarth). MS is good in tricking their audience: sun is always there where the baked in ground shadows point to. But those shadows can't move with daytime. Don't know how they could overcome this problem. Same with seasonal changes.
May the great AzureAI Cloud Force be with them! :))
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y_ZiBMCLpw&fbclid=IwAR3nlVeSm-MjuaV-PxrKewg04B7L1DzzEf1g5C-Ml0clNy6StjaBbEWzczs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y_ZiBMCLpw&fbclid=IwAR3nlVeSm-MjuaV-PxrKewg04B7L1DzzEf1g5C-Ml0clNy6StjaBbEWzczs)
... the physics look interesting ... like the visualization way of lift.
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I hope that besides the 64 bit version of the engine outerra will come up with something "special" in time...otherwise , once this is released by the end of 2020, at least those of us who like flying will be sucked into the new flightsimulator - be it only to check how it feels to play with it - leaving outerra on the sidelines. At least that's my guess...it will also depend on what PC/network specs are needed to play the MS2020 flightsim. It seems quite probable outerra will never be able to match the photoreal quality of the MS2020 world at least when viewed from cockpits. So that "special" is to be found in other than flightsim. Milsim seems the most obvious choice. Since I doubt that a ready milism game based on outerra will be possible by that time at least there should be some CREDIBLE announcement and maybe some more active "marketing" at some point to keep the interest high in outerra. It is a great engine but it needs to be shown/proven that a game can be made with it as there is allways strong competition. Another thought: my impression is that one of the greatest "special" features of outerra is that it is highly "moddable". maybe this should be made even more easy to make super-easy "modding" part of a outerra based game.
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here are some more details on how the MS2020 world looks close up. While buildings are very good trees and grass look less realistic than in outerra.
Its clear that this is because its meant to be viewed from above, not from groundlevel.
https://youtu.be/BZL5PCZO8cc
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If you're talking about the shot at 4:54, that's not the final in-game look (unless perhaps that look is available for less powerful hardware in-game). That's just more like Google Maps "3D" (though he says bing, but I don't know where to find 3D on bing maps lol).
The more final trees look a hell of a lot better than Outerra's 2D billboards. But I still want to see closer shots, which somehow people on youtube who have the test builds have not done yet. ??? Is there an NDA for showing footage near the ground outside of airports? lol Or perhaps crashing your plane isn't a thing yet, lol.
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well yes that one and the one at 9:04 showing very green grass. Here is another shot that shows that actually fortunately MS2020 grass is not allways so green ...great !
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1VhT5FS/Intheweeds-2048x1152.png) (https://postimg.cc/mtV8mYsd)
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If trees are the same as google map 3D trees shown below (and from several MS2020 videos it seems it is) then I disagree ..they don't look better than outerra billboards...no tree branches, no leaves ! just "green blobs" ..Looking even more close up they will look horrible.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZ4ggq7H/Google-trees.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dD2WyMSc)
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This shot is a zoom from a MS2020 screenshot...so yes its like google maps 3D trees . nice from far away but not to nice when viewed from nearby : also houses look the same as in 3D google maps. Not sure how these look from close up. Not so nice probably. Good from far away but not from close up.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zq2RD0LH/Rainbow-video.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FdN7p9f)
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This is the closest shot I could find .. green green grass ..not so bad after all ...but not sure if it moves in the wind ! ...and trees look a little less "Blobby". Graphically pleasing but of course its just "graphics" while in outerra everything can be animated and interacted with..as it is a "game engine" not a "flightsimulator engine". That remains a fundamental difference. Also not all houses seem the same.. some such as these seem procedurally generated as in outerra while those in the previous shot seem google maps photogrammetry
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbmcC4cV/procedurally-generated-Grass-Normandie-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkjNj4FQ)
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I still prefer this shot over billboards.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zq2RD0LH/Rainbow-video.jpg)
But of course that wouldn't work if you wanted to go through the forests while on the ground.
I do wonder when the individual tree models (I think?) will come into play like that shot at the end of the video. Of course they showed them at a distance over a hill. ::)
Does it LOD from models to the blobs?
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So here are two shots from the initial presentation video showing that trees look better and better when getting closer..Kudos to asobo studio developers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzG5ncdf/trees1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJqgRYD6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vT8KTFjg/trees2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkX6NXJw)
("https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOPIjzzH1G8")
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I mean, they had 3D trees in their earlier open world game, FUEL (2009), which I played to completion and way beyond. I miss it quite a lot.
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My biggest concern with the photogrammetry derived rendering (like google 3d maps or bing) is not trees looking like broccoli but the baked in shadows which can not show different time of day. With the screens MS is showing it looks good because they always choose the right lighting conditions matching the invariant ground textures.
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This is the most impressive video in 4K that shows well how good/(bad in some cases) the sim is as at the moment, Some defects are still related to blobby trees . ..in some places they even seem "extruded"..they will definitely have to do some work there. Also in many cases you can see that the scenery is basically "objects glued on top of photos" as it was before in photoreal flightsims..or at best its the same as navigating google 3d maps in high quality and realtime ...so clearly it will be unuseable as a world simulator....anyway the overall impression from a plane is very impressive and real. Also some basic waves are there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HwLeJSAGc&t=122s
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Time might tell later on though. Perhaps Microsoft buys Asobo and Asobo gets to work on making it into a game on the ground.
Don't know.
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photogrammetry 3D objects look great from far away but from close up they should change into procedural ones. In this shot for instance you have both types and procedural ones look much better (of course) .
Photogrammetry objects just do not look acceptable in any way at such close distances...for instance some fences look like extruded ground....and houses look like they have just been damaged by an earthquake ...not a good idea :(.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XN8X5FHS/houses1.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jXxdHWn)
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Looks like models are the airport (and immediate surrounding buildings), then goes to photo blob buildings. =|
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New MS 2020 video about the soundscape. astounding !! Gives us some suggestions to implement also in outerra. Besides that the video also shows that 3D grass is moving and that waves are not bad at all and the sea swells with bad weather. Some more close-up looks of trees...showing that they can also look quite good from closer up ! I know I repeat myself but it will be a very tough time for outerra once this comes out. Also using the same scenery for train-simulator, truck simulator or ship simulator probably is more than a possibility. Immersion is near to total ! the only small critical remark is that the landscapes sometimes look a little too much like photoreal fligthsim scenery (that is photos glued to meshes)...maybe they should add some random fractal noise to terrain like in outerra or increase grass/tree/building draw distance or add some fog.
https://youtu.be/ySEWs6luN7Q
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tach,
irgendwie hab ich das geahnt... :facepalm:
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZbhpv5k/mfs2020-0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47ZjmTrB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tC4S9SQ7/mfs2020-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/3WzCBZwH)
OT ist und bleibt das beste was auf dem Mark zurzeit gibt...zumindest als engine...punkt aus! :)
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Probably if outerra had the bing data and streaming servers of microsoft it could do at least as good if not better - at least for the trees and water ! Indeed look at the TitanIM screens. Photographic ground should have been removed also by TitanIM..for roads just leave a good outerra roads and concrete..In conclusion: outerra and MS should join forces =D
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D667H4FVUAA3tZN.jpg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D667H4FVUAA3tZN.jpg)
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To be honest , when flying in a plane we will probably not notice so much all those minor defects of the 3D MS bing-maps photoscenery ,simply because of the motion and because we'll fly at least 50 m above ground most of the times I guess. By watching the videos therse seem to be like two ideal flightheights: either below maybe 200 m were you don't notice the defects because of your speed or well above say 500 m so that you don't notice so much the "broccoli" nature of the trees. That broccoli appearance is frankly speaking "a little" disturbing. Devs should do better. =|
Anyway it will be for sure an exciting flightsim.
Still for a "world simulator" - which encompasses all domains, air/sea/ground/underwater..and underground - tunnels (and caves ? ) - outerra can't be matched by anything yet.
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Regarding "broccoli trees", seems they are working to improve it
https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/eudck4/i_know_that_some_folks_on_here_were_concerned/
(https://i.redd.it/xq9rls94z6d41.jpg)
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I still want FUEL 2, damnit.
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some new screens showing how trees look close-up from the new video MS 2020 episode 6 (airports). You can see how trees "transition" from bloblike far away trees to more detailed, apparently 3D tree models (or something similar) - for close trees. starts to look quite acceptable for a world simulator.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f5TgKfF/trees3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4KHHMYZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMyjpxfK/trees4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgSpkSFv)
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https://youtu.be/YS9BsC1aLmc
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some nice screenshot from outerra competitor MS2020
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Y10Zdxb/Castle.png) (https://postimg.cc/ppTp005t)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QR2p5rQ/Whitecaps.png) (https://postimg.cc/jDbBx1Hp)
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Allthough MS2020 dev seems to be temporarily halted or postponed due to the dramatic health situation in europe there is still a trickle of some nice screenshots...looks great !
Looking forward to enjoy it in a hopefully more happy future
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDx7YTc4/Tropical-scaled.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSRS1QBZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxz89RkY/wecutthegrassbecausitwastoolong-scaled.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68xTv5M1)
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MS 2020 multiplayer and some new peeks at their world.
https://youtu.be/ezcSVFQdc5g
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MS 2020 multiplayer and some new peeks at their world.
https://youtu.be/ezcSVFQdc5g
As someone who played their previous open world game, FUEL (besides creating the Crew 2's world, which... had their signature messed-up GPS =D ::)), this makes me crazy, and kind of giddy.
Especially when they finally show being landed at somewhere that's not an airport.
Oh my god, I want this to be a driving game so bad.
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this voice sounds to us ,, it is very recognizable ,, he made a video analyzing outerra ...
man wants to analyze Flight Simulator 2020 too ... let's hear it.
https://youtu.be/WnzS4KwddQM
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MS 2020 multiplayer and some new peeks at their world.
https://youtu.be/ezcSVFQdc5g
As someone who played their previous open world game, FUEL (besides creating the Crew 2's world, which... had their signature messed-up GPS =D ::)), this makes me crazy, and kind of giddy.
Especially when they finally show being landed at somewhere that's not an airport.
Oh my god, I want this to be a driving game so bad.
I hope you didn't forget about Test Drive Unlimited 2. Especially their maps. They recreated the entire islands of Oahu, Hawaii and Ibiza, Spain.
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I never did end up playing those.
FUEL was 14400 square kilometers, 5560 sq mi.
It had Mt. Rainier, the crater lake in Oregon, and the Grand Canyon, and more.
Crazy that The Crew's map was only 1900 sq mi. Still takes a long time to get across though, but not 4 hrs from corner to corner like FUEL, a trip I made many times.
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not only that, but when there are few buildings/trees/objects some parts of the scenery risk to look like oldfashioned photoreal flightsim scenery (allthough they are higher resolution).
Add to this baked-in shadows and you will consider the terrain as glued photos
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some news and new cool screenshots from microsoft flightsimulator
https://youtu.be/nD1pKnYS9mo
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Outerra had such promise.........
But as I said on this forum, years ago, there was no real sense of urgency from the developers.
It was said at the time that Outerra would need about ten years to really hit its stride, but as I also said at the time, the world was not in any way likely to just sit around waiting, and Outerra had every possibility of being first to the table and last for dinner.
Which seems to be the case, as world engines with life-sized planets with 21st century, impressive graphics proliferate, while Outerra looks pretty much exactly like it looked years ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth.
I'm rooting for the Outerra guys in theory, but in practice, I feel like time has shown them talking a good game, while nothing much happens.
I hope I'm wrong!
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Outerra had such promise.........
But as I said on this forum, years ago, there was no real sense of urgency from the developers.
It was said at the time that Outerra would need about ten years to really hit its stride, but as I also said at the time, the world was not in any way likely to just sit around waiting, and Outerra had every possibility of being first to the table and last for dinner.
Which seems to be the case, as world engines with life-sized planets with 21st century, impressive graphics proliferate, while Outerra looks pretty much exactly like it looked years ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth.
I'm rooting for the Outerra guys in theory, but in practice, I feel like time has shown them talking a good game, while nothing much happens.
I hope I'm wrong!
"world engines with life-sized planets with 21st century, impressive graphics proliferate" ...yes..but is there any (except the upcoming MS flightsimulator and the other older civil flightsims ) that has the REAL EARTH in the same 3D detail and realism ? It seems to me that most are syntetic fantasy worlds...I don't want to say that this is bad...but outerra beeing a kind of 3D realistic looking "playable (physical) google earth" (and it will surely become better very soon) remains still kind of unique it seems to me...even after so many years. True that its "just" a sandbox game and probably will stay that for another ...who knows how many years...but its a very enjoyable sandbox.
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Outerra had such promise.........
But as I said on this forum, years ago, there was no real sense of urgency from the developers.
It was said at the time that Outerra would need about ten years to really hit its stride, but as I also said at the time, the world was not in any way likely to just sit around waiting, and Outerra had every possibility of being first to the table and last for dinner.
Which seems to be the case, as world engines with life-sized planets with 21st century, impressive graphics proliferate, while Outerra looks pretty much exactly like it looked years ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth.
I'm rooting for the Outerra guys in theory, but in practice, I feel like time has shown them talking a good game, while nothing much happens.
I hope I'm wrong!
"world engines with life-sized planets with 21st century, impressive graphics proliferate" ...yes..but is there any (except the upcoming MS flightsimulator and the other older civil flightsims ) that has the REAL EARTH in the same 3D detail and realism ? It seems to me that most are syntetic fantasy worlds...I don't want to say that this is bad...but outerra beeing a kind of 3D realistic looking "playable (physical) google earth" (and it will surely become better very soon) remains still kind of unique it seems to me...even after so many years. True that its "just" a sandbox game and probably will stay that for another ...who knows how many years...but its a very enjoyable sandbox.
I would look at things like Unigine, which actually has many things working that Outerra has talked about, with not much to show, for years. Also VBS blue, and even going back to Proland. Then racing up from behind in capability are Unreal engine and Unity.........
The point being, that the world is not sitting around waiting for Outerra to walk around in a scholarly fog for another decade going Hmmmmmmmmm.... maybe if.........
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I would look at things like Unigine, which actually has many things working that Outerra has talked about, with not much to show, for years. Also VBS blue, and even going back to Proland. Then racing up from behind in capability are Unreal engine and Unity.........
The point being, that the world is not sitting around waiting for Outerra to walk around in a scholarly fog for another decade going Hmmmmmmmmm.... maybe if.........
You're right...the biggest risk for outerra is that if someone else comes up with a whole earth renderer of comparable or better quality associated to a fully functioning gaming engine then interest in outerra would sharply drop.
VBS4 (or any game based on the enfusion engine from Bohemia interactve) and MS flightsim are the biggest threats to outerra in this regard right now to my knowledge ...as they will be out and playable very soon...(VBS4 is it only for military contractors ??) although until they remain focussed on milsim and civil flightsim respectively they could still leave some room for outerra ...but with all the data that has been accumulated by these studios and their big firepower (infinitely bigger in any regard than the minuscule outerra dev's one ) also this space could shrink or disappear...as they could use this valuable earth data also for other games. I hope ...for outerra...things will not turn this way.
So I hope these new "threats" for outerra will incite the outerra guys to focus on something that finally brings them greater visibility.....unless they have a way to keep outerra living as an engine for use by game studios or other customers....for instance I hope Microprose will use outerra for at least one of its many promised new games...that would give outerra new breathing room and much greater recognition.
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So here we go: microsoft flightsimulator release-date and pricing are now official...releases 18th of august 2020 ...
run ! outerra run ! :)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7ZesoD2nZikdXEAM/giphy.gif)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/microsoft-flight-simulator-standard-preorder/9nxn8gf8n9ht?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_WFQpXyGZw
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This is no race OT could win. Only perhaps concerning the release date of a new build.
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This is how it should look =D
https://youtu.be/pcr9Z9DD15I
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MS flightsimulator world locations.....an explorer's paradise ! :)
https://youtu.be/Zra352qhK-0
https://youtu.be/sD-b45gGrtM
https://youtu.be/HxYgLB6W0hM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzVBo8t_ZYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJYpo0DG37Y
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nearing the microsoft flightsimulator release date here are some new videorecordings ...looks good....and certainly very good as the next generation flightsimulator..
..but sometimes you see the photoscenery-type look (photos and objects glued to a terrain mesh)...from that point of view outerra is still one step ahead
https://youtu.be/Y2fT3l6PpB0
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rather 1000 steps ahead
juancho airport. Saba Island
https://youtu.be/dlR9VpzVV98
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https://youtu.be/ng-mGNqLe6M
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https://youtu.be/bSpJ_9ba8DA
https://youtu.be/Y6MnYX6OJvM
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I'm sorry, but you accidentally posted a video of The Lion King.....
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we say goodbye to earth7 and compare it to FS2020, it's only fair, ..earth8 is in another galaxy.
:)
there are videos on youtube that compare multiple different games and even software and hardware products and of course FS2020 with XPlane11. and nothing happens.
I compared FS2020 with outerra earth7 and they censor it.
youtube has its rules and I understand it, but it has nothing to do with copyright,. The creator of a song could exercise that right.
About his game, Microsfot too, or Laminar Research .. but not a user .. why? Someone could create a video of outerra with the intention of harming him and outerra would have the right to exercise his property, but the user does not, although he claims that he did it ... it is as if I built a house on a foreign plot and claimed my property .. can not be..
Well, a user has claimed a video that he does not own and they have censored me.
that's why I had to change the video to a place where they only censor you if you violate current laws.
Anyway, I will have to be much more careful, one more warning and they close YouTube .. I still believe in a free internet, so if they want a lawsuit they will not have. :)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7vledy
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now that MSFS2020 is out, as well as outerra earth8 we can start to compare them ..what is better in one sim and what is better in the other. Let's start from the best of MSFS:
As expected whenever viewed from the air MSFS shows much greater realism...especially because of the fantastic atmoshpere rendering both in terms of clouds and subtle lighting effects...which when inside a plane give a sensation of realism never seen before in a sim. from this point of view there is huge room for outerra cloud/atmoshpere improvement. Of course also the much higher ground texture resolution contributes to the realism when up in the air. And then there are the absolutely realistic plane sounds which contribute immensely to immersion.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T3ZpnJjc/MSFS1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYVr4cBf)
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Ground level detail is better overall in OT compared to MSFS. Much better roads and now 3d trees (instead 2.5d in MSFS).
OT has procedural rocks and terrain details. DEM in FS is too low res, there are a lot of "melted "mountains with streched textures we all know from FSX. OT is a little hampered by simple lighting, whereas FS has the bells and whistles of a modern engine. Currently both engines are producing pictures at ground level which look always almost the same, no matter where you are on the planet. There's not much diversity. Everywhere the same grass and so on. I think OT could do better and show crops, grain fields and grasslands.
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wish granted.
https://youtu.be/ysvzFGEXEfo
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wish granted.
https://youtu.be/ysvzFGEXEfo
I can still improve it (I'll try to add some LODs) so that you can place many more of them ....I wished we knew how to create "corn impostors" for even better performance ;)
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116/5000
MFS 2020 pilots have complained about the fps and users themselves have looked for a solution to the screenshots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/ifle4x/huge_performance_booststutter_reduction_by/
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MSFS is cool and beautiful, but outerra also is...plus it can be much cooler ...plus it has immensely better framerate ! ! ^-^
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fWPTsvG/mig29.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYBJXCFR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Lm3Nmkj/mig27-fly77.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mcff60XY)