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Outerra Engine => Off Topic => Topic started by: PytonPago on October 06, 2019, 01:25:05 am

Title: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: PytonPago on October 06, 2019, 01:25:05 am
I just stumbled on this thing ... kinda strange how the terrain is made : MS Flight 20 - interesting world generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8h6yibHHc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0Qk0Nvk-W0bEQU_yCpv013PjvPGcdX_BOh0k6BsTJbAvo3JL0RQhZqmPM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8h6yibHHc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0Qk0Nvk-W0bEQU_yCpv013PjvPGcdX_BOh0k6BsTJbAvo3JL0RQhZqmPM)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on October 06, 2019, 02:00:50 am
Terrain making is probably the least strange thing in this new sim. Its just high quality ortophotos plus lots of precisely generated autogen. The more crazy thing is the autogen which seems realistic 3d models (with real textures it seems !) precisely corresponding to real buildings extracted somehow automatically by AI software from bing maps. Also flight model seems really incredibly realistic..as well as real wind and cloud physics..of course it looks also gorgeous.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: 2eyed on October 06, 2019, 04:06:28 am
Most of the footage they showed off is not autogen terrain but "real" photogrammetry (same as Google does with many locations in GEarth). MS is good in tricking their audience: sun is always there where the baked in ground shadows point to. But those shadows can't move with daytime. Don't know how they could overcome this problem. Same with seasonal changes.
May the great AzureAI Cloud Force be with them! :))
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: PytonPago on January 11, 2020, 07:21:05 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y_ZiBMCLpw&fbclid=IwAR3nlVeSm-MjuaV-PxrKewg04B7L1DzzEf1g5C-Ml0clNy6StjaBbEWzczs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y_ZiBMCLpw&fbclid=IwAR3nlVeSm-MjuaV-PxrKewg04B7L1DzzEf1g5C-Ml0clNy6StjaBbEWzczs)

 ... the physics look interesting ... like the visualization way of lift.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 11, 2020, 08:55:13 am
I hope that besides the 64 bit version of the engine outerra will come up with something "special" in time...otherwise , once this is released by the end of 2020, at least those of us who like flying will be sucked into the new flightsimulator -  be it only to check how it feels to play with it - leaving outerra on the sidelines. At least that's my guess...it will also depend on what PC/network specs are needed to play the MS2020 flightsim. It seems quite probable outerra will never be able to match the photoreal quality of the MS2020 world at least when viewed from cockpits. So that "special" is to be found in other than flightsim. Milsim seems the most obvious choice. Since I doubt that a ready milism game based on outerra will be possible by that time at least there should be some CREDIBLE announcement and maybe some more active "marketing" at some point to keep the interest high in outerra. It is a great engine but it needs to be shown/proven that a game can be made with it as there is allways strong competition. Another thought: my impression is that one of the greatest "special" features of outerra is that it is highly "moddable". maybe this should be made even more easy to make super-easy "modding" part of a outerra based game.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 12, 2020, 04:59:24 am
here are some more details on how the MS2020 world looks close up.  While buildings are very good trees and grass look less realistic than in outerra.
Its clear that this is because its meant to be viewed from above, not from groundlevel.

https://youtu.be/BZL5PCZO8cc
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 12, 2020, 03:25:51 pm
If you're talking about the shot at 4:54, that's not the final in-game look (unless perhaps that look is available for less powerful hardware in-game).  That's just more like Google Maps "3D" (though he says bing, but I don't know where to find 3D on bing maps lol).

The more final trees look a hell of a lot better than Outerra's 2D billboards.  But I still want to see closer shots, which somehow people on youtube who have the test builds have not done yet.  ???  Is there an NDA for showing footage near the ground outside of airports? lol  Or perhaps crashing your plane isn't a thing yet, lol.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 12, 2020, 05:47:07 pm
well yes that one and the one at 9:04 showing very green grass.  Here is another shot that shows that actually fortunately MS2020 grass is not allways so green ...great !

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1VhT5FS/Intheweeds-2048x1152.png) (https://postimg.cc/mtV8mYsd)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 12, 2020, 05:49:24 pm
If trees are the same as google map 3D trees shown below (and from several MS2020 videos it seems it is) then I disagree ..they don't look better than outerra billboards...no tree branches, no leaves ! just "green blobs" ..Looking even more close up they will look horrible.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MZ4ggq7H/Google-trees.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dD2WyMSc)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 12, 2020, 06:00:13 pm
This shot is a zoom from a MS2020 screenshot...so yes its like google maps 3D trees  . nice from far away but not to nice when viewed from nearby : also houses look the same as in 3D google maps. Not sure how these look from close up. Not so nice probably. Good from far away but not from close up.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Zq2RD0LH/Rainbow-video.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FdN7p9f)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 12, 2020, 06:14:35 pm
This is the closest shot I could find .. green green grass ..not so bad after all ...but not sure if it moves in the wind !  ...and trees look a little less "Blobby". Graphically pleasing but of course its just "graphics" while in outerra everything can be animated and interacted with..as it is a "game engine" not a "flightsimulator engine". That remains a fundamental difference. Also not all houses seem the same.. some such as these seem procedurally generated as in outerra while those in the previous shot seem google maps photogrammetry

(https://i.postimg.cc/fbmcC4cV/procedurally-generated-Grass-Normandie-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkjNj4FQ)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 12, 2020, 06:32:18 pm
I still prefer this shot over billboards.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Zq2RD0LH/Rainbow-video.jpg)

But of course that wouldn't work if you wanted to go through the forests while on the ground.

I do wonder when the individual tree models (I think?) will come into play like that shot at the end of the video.  Of course they showed them at a distance over a hill.  ::)
Does it LOD from models to the blobs?
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 13, 2020, 05:51:50 pm
So here are two shots from the initial presentation video showing that trees look better and better when getting closer..Kudos to asobo studio developers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzG5ncdf/trees1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJqgRYD6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vT8KTFjg/trees2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkX6NXJw)
("https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOPIjzzH1G8")
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 13, 2020, 07:23:57 pm
I mean, they had 3D trees in their earlier open world game, FUEL (2009), which I played to completion and way beyond.  I miss it quite a lot.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: 2eyed on January 14, 2020, 07:40:40 am
My biggest concern with the photogrammetry derived rendering (like google 3d maps or bing) is not trees looking like broccoli but the baked in shadows which can not show different time of day. With the screens MS is showing it looks good because they always choose the right lighting conditions matching the invariant ground textures.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 15, 2020, 08:42:06 am
This is the most impressive video in 4K that shows well how good/(bad in some cases) the sim is as at the moment, Some defects are still related to blobby trees . ..in some places they even seem "extruded"..they will definitely have to do some work there. Also in many cases you can see that the scenery is basically "objects glued on top of photos" as it was before in photoreal flightsims..or at best its the same as navigating google 3d maps in high quality and realtime ...so clearly it will be unuseable as a world simulator....anyway the overall impression from a plane is very impressive and real. Also some basic waves are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HwLeJSAGc&t=122s
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 15, 2020, 01:40:43 pm
Time might tell later on though.  Perhaps Microsoft buys Asobo and Asobo gets to work on making it into a game on the ground.

Don't know.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 15, 2020, 06:00:22 pm
photogrammetry 3D objects look great from far away but from close up they should change into procedural ones. In this shot for instance you have both types and procedural ones look much better (of course) .
Photogrammetry objects just do not look acceptable in any way at such close distances...for instance some fences look like extruded ground....and houses look like they have just been damaged by an earthquake ...not a good idea  :(.

(https://i.postimg.cc/XN8X5FHS/houses1.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jXxdHWn)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 15, 2020, 06:21:52 pm
Looks like models are the airport (and immediate surrounding buildings), then goes to photo blob buildings.  =|
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 17, 2020, 05:24:15 am
New MS 2020 video about the soundscape. astounding !! Gives us some suggestions to implement also in outerra. Besides that the video also shows that 3D grass is moving and that waves are not bad at all and the sea swells with bad weather. Some more close-up looks of trees...showing that they can also look quite good from closer up ! I know I repeat myself but it will be a very tough time for outerra once this comes out. Also using the same scenery for train-simulator, truck simulator or ship simulator probably is more than a possibility.  Immersion is near to total ! the only small critical remark is that the landscapes sometimes look a little too much like photoreal fligthsim scenery (that is photos glued to meshes)...maybe they should add some random fractal noise to terrain like in outerra or increase grass/tree/building draw distance or add some fog.

https://youtu.be/ySEWs6luN7Q
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Revolver on January 21, 2020, 05:22:20 am
tach,
irgendwie hab ich das geahnt... :facepalm:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DZbhpv5k/mfs2020-0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47ZjmTrB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tC4S9SQ7/mfs2020-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/3WzCBZwH)

OT ist und bleibt das beste was auf dem Mark zurzeit gibt...zumindest als engine...punkt aus! :)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 21, 2020, 08:00:18 am
Probably if outerra had the bing data and streaming servers of microsoft it could do at least as good if not better - at least for the trees and water ! Indeed look at the TitanIM screens. Photographic ground should have been removed also by TitanIM..for roads just leave a good outerra roads and concrete..In conclusion: outerra and MS should join forces  =D
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D667H4FVUAA3tZN.jpg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D667H4FVUAA3tZN.jpg)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 21, 2020, 02:07:22 pm
To be honest , when flying in a plane we will probably not notice so much all those minor defects of the 3D MS bing-maps photoscenery  ,simply because of the motion  and because we'll fly at least 50 m above ground most of the times I guess. By watching the videos therse seem to be like two ideal flightheights: either below maybe 200 m were you don't notice the defects because of your speed or well above say 500 m so that you don't notice so much the "broccoli" nature of the trees. That broccoli appearance is frankly speaking "a little" disturbing.  Devs should do better. =|

Anyway it will be for sure an exciting flightsim.

Still for a "world simulator" - which encompasses all domains, air/sea/ground/underwater..and underground - tunnels (and caves ? ) - outerra can't be matched by anything yet.
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: fly77 on January 30, 2020, 02:04:13 pm
Regarding "broccoli trees", seems they are working to improve it

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/eudck4/i_know_that_some_folks_on_here_were_concerned/

(https://i.redd.it/xq9rls94z6d41.jpg)
Title: Re: MS Flight 20 - interresting world generator
Post by: Jagerbomber on January 30, 2020, 02:51:30 pm
I still want FUEL 2, damnit.