Outerra forum
Outerra Engine => Ideas & Suggestions & Questions => Topic started by: ZeosPantera on March 05, 2012, 04:46:55 am
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Just a little reminder that Higher field of view isn't always the correct field of view. I did not move positions for these shots, they were all taken from the same spot. Note how although you gain side vision by raising the FOV you are losing a lot of the detail in the truck and background that was otherwise clearly visible.
(http://i.minus.com/iYUwKesQtTVCd.png)
(http://i.minus.com/i9HhBKoFBVRuH.png)
(http://i.minus.com/iyH7GNacPZ6tm.png)
(http://i.minus.com/iNe80GXw1ZaVE.png)
(http://i.minus.com/ibmOFiPIrddB0P.png)
I think 60 by default was a good choice and it keeps the mountains looking.. Mountainous. 90° and above makes everything look flat and far away. Play with the FOV slider don't adjust based on what you think you like.
Also just to clarify.. Lowering your FOV is not like wearing binoculars. It is actually the opposite.
(http://i.imgur.com/RTNX9.jpg)
Almost all games with "high" fov are like having backwards binoculars that warp size and distance and squeeze a normal and natural image down to fit more on a small screen. This might still need to be the norm in games and Outerra but not to the extent we have become accustomed to.
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~90-100 still looks the most correct to me when looking at where I live.
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You shouldn't set the FOV based on looks, there actually is a "correct" FOV, but it depends on the ratio between the display size and the viewing distance.
It's pretty easy, if you sit closer to your display and/or have a big display, then you need a larger FOV:
(http://i.imgur.com/07Due.png)
The red lines here show the correct FOV, resulting from the amount of space the display takes up from the viewers field of view in reality, the other lines show a too narrow/wide FOV.
It needs to be adjustable since everybody has a different PC setup and a wrongly set FOV can cause motion sickness.
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I'm going by looks...
I know what I see and now I see what I know.
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I'm going by looks...
I know what I see and now I see what I know.
Oh, i was mostly responding to ZeosPantera for chosing 60 to make the Mountains look not as flat.
If 90-100 looks correct to you, than it probably is for you setup :)
I'm usually using that same range myself
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I just did the calculations and my field of view comes out at about 35 degrees! lol. Perhaps some one would be kind enought to check my calculations.
Width of monitor : 48cm
Distance from eye to monitor: 90cm approx
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Also just to clarify.. Lowering your FOV is not like wearing binoculars. It is actually the opposite.
... Japan Binocular Football (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj7f3B1VCYM#) ... ;-)
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... ;-)
Firstly.. Best reply ever..
You shouldn't set the FOV based on looks, there actually is a "correct" FOV, but it depends on the ratio between the display size and the viewing distance.
It's pretty easy, if you sit closer to your display and/or have a big display, then you need a larger FOV:
You are absolutely Correct. BUT nobody does the real world math. I sit 34" away from a 16:10 screen that is 11.5" high (calculating Vertical) and it calculates to around 20.5° .. On a 16:10 monitor that calculates to exactly 32° Horizontal. If I had triplehead monitors and magically no bezels I would still have 20.5° vertical and 96°-ish Horizontal across ALL THREE!!
Here are some awesome things I made to help explain it over the years.
High FOV:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/fov_2a.gif)
Low FOV:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/fov_setup.gif)
Visually Calculating Vertical FOV
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/FOV.png)
90°Across three screens
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/fov_90x3.jpg)
High FOV vs Low FOV in triplehead
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/TripleheadCompare.jpg)
How FOV or Focal length affect distance and scale
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/Focal_length-1.jpg)
I just did the calculations and my field of view comes out at about 35 degrees! lol. Perhaps some one would be kind enought to check my calculations.
Width of monitor : 48cm
Distance from eye to monitor: 90cm approx
I made this Document so it would be easy for people to figure out their absolute correct FOV.. FOV Pre-Calculated (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah63E8wuWhrgdHYyNGc5dmF1bV9YX0JqSERMUU5sTkE&authkey=CPzqkIAJ#gid=11)
If your display is something bigger or further away I use these two sites.
This one gets your screens dimensions http://www.displaywars.com/ (http://www.displaywars.com/)
This one finds HALF the fov based on half the screen height or width(A) you give it and the distance(B) http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html (http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html)
Sounds about right but according to my calculations it is more like 29.8° Horizontal. All you can do is sit closer or get a bigger screen if you desire a higher real life FOV matching a high in-game fov. Aren't pure simulators fun!
Simplest terms are this.. If you had a window the size of your monitor in your hands.. Walked around and kept it away from your face the same distance as your monitor is.. That is what the virtual world in proper FOV would look like. If you bring it closer your view expands but objects don't appear any bigger you can just see more around them. If you get a bigger screen/window.. you can see more and objects still don't get any bigger. Window to the virtual world strapped to your head is the best way to look at it.
Oh look. With a TV single monitor..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/600-01184598w.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/600-01184598w.jpg)
With a TRIPLEHEAD!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/600-01184594w.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/FOV/600-01184594w.jpg)
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Looks like i didn't tell you anything you didn't already know ;)
And i never actually bothered to calculate my correct FOV (~60) since 90-100 always looked right haha.
I guess simple trigonometry isn't the be-all and end-all for FOV, and perception plays a huge role with that. 60 degrees horizontal always feels to me like waving around a camera that's mounted on a long stick
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So I decided to try your method for FOV again and I agree that it does indeed look more accurate, but having tunnel vision with my little screen (that I actually am sitting very close to) just sucks. Part of it is that it makes me nauseous, but I guess that's actually too be expected. The sides of my screen are arms length away, so it really is like I'm running/flying around holding a picture/window frame straight out in front of me without being able to see in any other direction. It also blocks most of my view of inside the vehicles. Technically realistic if I only want to see at the proper angle "through" my screen, but I don't.
Question: Is Outerra using a horizontal or vertical FOV setting?
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The number in the menu is Horizontal but the internal structure is coded in vertical so widescreen vs 4:3 displays don't change it greatly. It should just be totally Vertical or at least show your Vertical based on horizontal based on the resolution you are running.. Add that to my wishlist.
And yes it is exactly like running around with a picture frame in front of you. And committing to it means the only way to see more is move closer (some people claim they sit 16" from their 24" screen.. ) Getting more screens (Triple-head) or getting a bigger screen. You would still be running around with it in your hands but think how much bigger the hole would be.
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Yeah I know, but multiple screens is not an option right now. :-[
I'm 24" away (from 1680x1050 (~18.75"x~11.75")) just FYI.
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Thing with virtual games and such on screen is they don't factor in that people are naturally use to seeing through their side vision to make up the total FOV, the games often have screen fov but its not how we as humans are use to seeing things as we are often factoring in an extra ~30 degrees from side vision, so allot of people find larger fov for games to be more enjoyable as it sort of compensates for the loss of side vision.
Side Vision = Peripheral Vision
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It's probably a little early to ask, but since we're on the topic of FOV, would it be terribly difficult to add multiple adjustable "view windows" to outerra? This would offer a greater true FOV without having the reverse binocular effect. I'm very curious on how the engine would perform....and would REALLY like to try this out in my home cockpit! ;-)
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I have discussed this and it seems possible but isn't implemented yet. My goal would be rendering six adjustable camera positions.... Imagine this with some non-rotational head tracking. Just on the fly FOV based on how close your face is to the various screens.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/Forums/SketchUp2011-09-1102-50-01-88.png)
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You got it!
I know most people would be using a separate display for each open window, like the picture you've posted, but I'm actually wanting to open multiple windows on a single display. Same idea, just 1 display... 180 degrees FOV through multiple windows. I wouldn't think this would make a difference as far as programming is concerned vs using more than 1 display. You would simply open your additional windows and drag them wherever you want on your available display be it 1 or 6.
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Same idea, just 1 display... 180 degrees FOV through multiple windows.
:o Why not just have 180 degrees in full screen?
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Same idea, just 1 display... 180 degrees FOV through multiple windows.
:o Why not just have 180 degrees in full screen?
Good question. I don't know why it is, but the farther you zoom out (increasing FOV), then the worse the reverse binocular effect is. This is especially noticeable in FSX. When I zoom out, the instrument panel looks like it's 15 yards in front of me and the forward scenery becomes so far away that it's unrecognizable. The phenomena doesn't occur though when you use multiple windows...for whatever reason.
It would be great if the scenery would "curve" properly around a given FOV rather than stretch the forward to make room for the side views. I guess this is just a limitation in programming. :(