Outerra forum

Outerra Apps => Games => Topic started by: DetCord on March 13, 2012, 06:04:26 pm

Title: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DetCord on March 13, 2012, 06:04:26 pm
Personally speaking, I'd love to see a mil-sim in the vein of the OFP/ArmA series. Given how the engine functions, I believe it would be perfectly suited for the task. Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PTTG on March 13, 2012, 06:15:16 pm
While I highly agree, some kind of science fiction setting is almost required, for two reasons:

1.) To enable the availability of high-velocity, high-flexibility transit: how else are you going to get your squad from Vancouver to Cape Town without sitting at your computer desk for eight hours. Of course, this can be mitigated and justified in other way- time acceleration and access to modern but very advanced technology, for instance. Most rewarding would be finding a way to make these long trips at least mildly interesting with procedural interruptions of some kind.

2.)Justifying the lack of a complex political structure: A modern combat sim would need at least a command structure representing hundreds of thousands of units, plus economic units, plus a civilian industry... Science fiction gives a good way to ignore that, by moving it "offworld".
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DetCord on March 13, 2012, 06:28:21 pm
While I highly agree, some kind of science fiction setting is almost required, for two reasons:

1.) To enable the availability of high-velocity, high-flexibility transit: how else are you going to get your squad from Vancouver to Cape Town without sitting at your computer desk for eight hours. Of course, this can be mitigated and justified in other way- time acceleration and access to modern but very advanced technology, for instance. Most rewarding would be finding a way to make these long trips at least mildly interesting with procedural interruptions of some kind.

2.)Justifying the lack of a complex political structure: A modern combat sim would need at least a command structure representing hundreds of thousands of units, plus economic units, plus a civilian industry... Science fiction gives a good way to ignore that, by moving it "offworld".

1. Just because it currently encompasses the entire world, certainly doesn't mean the game has too. Utilizing certain geographical locations, say a map of several hundred kilometers, would be the way to go.

2. I'm talking about a mil-sim, not a global strategic RTS game where micromanagement utilizing in-depth movement, logistics, diplomacy, economic allocations, and Corps/Division level planning is required. Hence, the reference to the ArmA series.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ZeosPantera on March 13, 2012, 11:50:02 pm
If the engine could spawn small towns like the ones found in arma at random spots and auto connect them with roads and telephone poles you could play on a different 100 square mile patch of land every night for several decades at least.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on March 14, 2012, 04:41:01 am
Personally speaking, I'd love to see a mil-sim in the vein of the OFP/ArmA series. Given how the engine functions, I believe it would be perfectly suited for the task. Any thoughts on this?

And changing it a little more in the Project Reality way ... take me in ! : P I would actully like an hard-core reality mod. as i mentioned once before, making special pieces of technic be AI controled and when boarded, it could be able to controll as an real one - switch by switch - DCS-style. Of course it would hawe an "normal" mode to not let the majority people be bad on me, and the tech. documentation would be of course present. Just like this guy is working on : https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home (https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home)
Like his work a lot.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Imnpsnm on March 25, 2012, 04:22:15 pm
I totally agree with this, I'm sure it could be made something great. Any plans of work into this idea?
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on March 26, 2012, 05:18:17 am
I totally agree with this, I'm sure it could be made something great. Any plans of work into this idea?

Still at school-problems, but I certainly would require non-less as all-USSR and Russian tech in this little world ... especially some S-300M´s simmulation and the whole BMD´s collection with Air-drop capability ( I wonna be dropped inside that thing from 2 Km height like the real VDV, and prepare the wehicle for fight after getting to earth ! :D  - that would be Project Reality for me.)

P.S.: Its ewen an interesting substitution for the canceled 2-year army training, and all artillery could be used with HL2-like tipps to teach basic balistic physics. (Would not be bad to make it an learn-to-play type game at realistic mode in avionics and other ... (of course, those tipps would be possible to disable)).
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: atazs on March 26, 2012, 12:41:19 pm
A military sim would be very good but my only concern is players. This is earth we are speaking about. We will need millions of people playing at the same time to at least find someone to fight
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: CHOAM on March 26, 2012, 12:55:11 pm
Looking forward on this! As Arma series players I can tell that you don't need the entire world to play, just a few detailed enviroment in a few Km around for infantry simulation, things change when including air combat. Outerra can handle this, you can focus the details where the infantry will move and let low detailed zone for air - air fight to not have the 'out-of-map' feeling.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on March 27, 2012, 03:40:57 am
Looking forward on this! As Arma series players I can tell that you don't need the entire world to play, just a few detailed enviroment in a few Km around for infantry simulation, things change when including air combat. Outerra can handle this, you can focus the details where the infantry will move and let low detailed zone for air - air fight to not have the 'out-of-map' feeling.

Well, it could be Vehicle-based. Lets just say ther will be severall detail levels (around 5 : First Person hi-hi-detail, Open/standard transport hi-detail, MBT´s and transporters of closed type (periscope and camerra driwen) with medium detail, Helis medium/low and planes/ships/subs medium/low/werry low) where the different detail types distance apearence would be sensitivelly tuned (no need to hawe too much detail in long distance if all you see trough is an BTR´s periscope) still having an combined option (if you switch the driver look from the hatch, you hawe more looking capability and so a higher detail surroundings to see). It should be modell-based. Just an simple .txt where those parameters for warious places (from transporter driver periscope and hatch view to outter sitting positions for infantry, that just sits on the armoured vehicle). The gamemode-options would give an certain extend to change the detail-levels, features and detail visibility distances via drag-menu base, that would update/change those .txt´s and at the same time give the option to play with it manually or making it possible to change them if the game crashes because of them ... Of course, allways before putting an new piece of armor/plane/ship, those parameters would be chosen for it individually (cause all of them hawe an different observeabillity as for they construction) andthere could be an main option - apply global or individual detail characteristics (actually if a type of armour (tanks, transports, planes ...) will hawe a single detail .txt setting (being an global one for the game engine itself), or if any piece of tech. would hawe their own settings acording to theyr own .txt´s comming with modells itself - user moddified or in their base setup from modell application into the outerra-sim.)

 .... of course i already take the vehicle adding tool planned for outerra in mind, so it would be good to define such implementations into it, when it later comes to life. Also the settings are modifiable and modell-based, because the rangefinders and aiming devices are of an great difference between each other, so it would be an nice way of tweaking all those aspects for anyone individually for each thing he gets inside.

And, as an thought about that ProjectReality post of mine ... the needed soldier-class for various types of technic is an great way to lead an mil-sim and it cloud be ewen brought trought time to an new level, more realistic and engaging game experience. (maybe ewen very slightly different characteristics of movements between character clases - specnaz/mechanic-driver/pilot/...)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DetCord on April 05, 2012, 08:32:14 pm
A military sim would be very good but my only concern is players. This is earth we are speaking about. We will need millions of people playing at the same time to at least find someone to fight

Ugh... Again, it doesn't have to encompass the entire world, only a certain geographic region or specific location or locations.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DarkDXZ on April 09, 2012, 03:44:20 pm
A military sim would be very good but my only concern is players. This is earth we are speaking about. We will need millions of people playing at the same time to at least find someone to fight

Ugh... Again, it doesn't have to encompass the entire world, only a certain geographic region or specific location or locations.

One moderately sized island would be enough, I suppose.
But for some reason, not even Earth as a whole would justify my urge. :)

As long as I can freely change my weapon attachments and give orders to my squad, I can even fight at an area not bigger than my town (4 thousand people...really goddamn small)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PTTG on April 09, 2012, 04:57:46 pm
A good story would justify everything. Maybe there's big deposits of "resources" of some kind underground scattered over the planet in hundreds of places. Defenders can set up bases over and near these deposits and start collecting cash for more troops. The other side, who probably is mining and defending some other place, then has to come in and attack.

The important thing is that these battles might take up a few kilometers of ground in any one place, but between traveling, searching out new deposits, and fleeing to distant areas of terrain, then the seamlessly massive nature of the game-world is fully taken advantage of.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DarkDXZ on April 10, 2012, 06:52:28 am
A good story would justify everything. Maybe there's big deposits of "resources" of some kind underground scattered over the planet in hundreds of places. Defenders can set up bases over and near these deposits and start collecting cash for more troops. The other side, who probably is mining and defending some other place, then has to come in and attack.

The important thing is that these battles might take up a few kilometers of ground in any one place, but between traveling, searching out new deposits, and fleeing to distant areas of terrain, then the seamlessly massive nature of the game-world is fully taken advantage of.

Instant thought: Ace of Spades-Battlefield hybrid.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Imnpsnm on April 13, 2012, 06:55:07 pm
So, when we start working on it? haha
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on April 17, 2012, 05:02:07 am
So, when we start working on it? haha
Well, it could be started with importing some mil. transportation-vehicles (as for the actuall or cold-war times) and getting them to an "KRAZ-Game" like handling. That would be the easy-tech thing to do. Starting now, making an great variety for the comunity and the sim in time ...(there is also a lot of things to do to take outerra itself to finish, so this ant-work could get a gripp of it)

 ... so, all modellers are welcome for this job ! : P ...

 Still, we need to see the final importer, but as the actual flyer imported (as posted elswhere) it could be nice. I try to contact the hungarian AA-simmer, what he thinks about it (would like to see a S-300 in work later). Making an first static/mobile AA into Outerra and play with it a little ...

Actually, no bad if any starts its own thing on it, as for my, if it is hard-real-sim oriented (the simplified handling is not written-off of course for other people ) and wants to get all the fields and stuff someday to work together in Outerra, its in! There just has to be an base interaction to be hold on to, so avi-simmers bomb landing on tank-simmers abrams does some damage and he´s friends AA-simmers Patriot engages them back. : P
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Eco on April 18, 2012, 09:44:47 pm
Let's start modelling! Ill help! haha
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: th3flyboy on April 18, 2012, 10:21:15 pm
I'd be more than happy to help with coding once the functionality to extend Anteworld with code is enabled.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ChookWantan on May 07, 2012, 04:07:31 pm
I'm one hundred percent for this project. You have my blessing.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Bartolomeus on May 08, 2012, 01:54:52 am
I would like to see warships and submarines! ;)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on June 28, 2012, 01:22:41 pm
Hey guys ! I just seen some competition ! :D

DCS: Combined Arms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFN1iFfvVG8#ws)

Seems they wont to get some multiplayer-base go on in the future for a coupled simulator. Now just ships and subs to wait for them ... actually still just an fly-sim with this net-feature for wowzers, but still a little closer to a full-spectrum simulator. ...
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Juggernautz on June 28, 2012, 04:52:28 pm
Damn, the DCS sims are all really awesome. And I love that Battlefield style tactical overlay with multiplayer integration... the Outerra world is WAY more detailed than theirs looks to be, though. It would be cool to see some developers work to enable multiplayer and persistent servers in the Outerra world though.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Bartolomeus on June 29, 2012, 01:45:47 am
DCS is awesome. I would like to see ships and subs in DCS, but it is not the whole earth like in OT. ;)

Marko
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ZoneKiller on July 15, 2012, 04:53:25 am
Quote
I'd be more than happy to help with coding once the functionality to extend Anteworld with code is enabled.
i would be too :)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Grind and Click on July 23, 2012, 01:08:29 pm
Quote
2. I'm talking about a mil-sim, not a global strategic RTS game where micromanagement utilizing in-depth movement, logistics, diplomacy, economic allocations, and Corps/Division level planning is required. Hence, the reference to the ArmA series.

There's no reason not to have it on a global scale though. Travel will be at your discretion and possibly mining to buy vehicles and buildings command and conquer style.

Stronghold Kingdoms uses the entire world quite well?
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2012, 02:12:05 pm
Could start up an entire world war and just travel to the different theaters. Always wanted to see how a battle on Iceland for it's precious Ice reserves would go.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ChookWantan on July 23, 2012, 07:37:01 pm
Could start up an entire world war and just travel to the different theaters. Always wanted to see how a battle on Iceland for it's precious Ice reserves would go.

You mean Greenland? 
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ZeosPantera on July 23, 2012, 11:23:14 pm
Could start up an entire world war and just travel to the different theaters. Always wanted to see how a battle on Iceland for it's precious Ice reserves would go.

You mean Greenland? 

Both.. what do you think about that? Iceland vs Greenland. Battle to the end.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on July 25, 2012, 01:00:31 pm
Could start up an entire world war and just travel to the different theaters. Always wanted to see how a battle on Iceland for it's precious Ice reserves would go.

You mean Greenland? 

Both.. what do you think about that? Iceland vs Greenland. Battle to the end.

... well, that the United Penguin authorities of Antarctica would get involved ? :D
Anyway ... seeing forward for the importer to get the models for this one in !
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: DetCord on August 09, 2012, 01:50:53 am
Apologies for not responding, I've been in Afghanistan.

Back on track... I think a few people are over-thinking the prospect. I see a lot of the conversation reverting back to a global war/sim/RTS/whatever aspect. You're taking a niche market aspect and making it even more niche to a certain extent. If you're going to sell an idea it has to be profitable, and a title like that just isn't what it used to be. Plain and simple truth, its how it is now. I'm talking about a FPS/TPS simulation of modern armed conflict.

I.E...

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/DevilDog0351/General%20Screens/arma2oa2012-08-0819-53-50-82.jpg)

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/DevilDog0351/General%20Screens/arma2oa2012-08-0820-13-22-45.jpg)

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/DevilDog0351/General%20Screens/arma2oa2012-08-0820-37-39-11.jpg)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: ZeosPantera on August 09, 2012, 03:00:07 am
The thing about the future of OT is that it wouldn't just be a mil-sim and pass or fail by that measure. It wouldn't even need to cost money for the mil-sim. All these guys have to do is make a base easy enough to mod for that anyone can make any mod and use it. So if crazy mil-sim people want to get together and make a free or for sale mil sim then let them. Everyone that wants to play is still going to need the base and therefore is going to pay the engines creators and possibly the mod creators. And there can be hundreds of mods from flight sim frontends to gardening simulators. Each free or pay but always on the outerra base.

So mil-sim anyone? Sure.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Spudly on August 09, 2012, 10:37:37 pm
Yeah, I love the idea behind that business model.  It's just asking for efficient modules.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on August 10, 2012, 06:40:51 am
The thing about the future of OT is that it wouldn't just be a mil-sim and pass or fail by that measure. It wouldn't even need to cost money for the mil-sim. All these guys have to do is make a base easy enough to mod for that anyone can make any mod and use it. So if crazy mil-sim people want to get together and make a free or for sale mil sim then let them. Everyone that wants to play is still going to need the base and therefore is going to pay the engines creators and possibly the mod creators. And there can be hundreds of mods from flight sim frontends to gardening simulators. Each free or pay but always on the outerra base.

So mil-sim anyone? Sure.

...

Apologies for not responding, I've been in Afghanistan.

Back on track... I think a few people are over-thinking the prospect. I see a lot of the conversation reverting back to a global war/sim/RTS/whatever aspect. You're taking a niche market aspect and making it even more niche to a certain extent. If you're going to sell an idea it has to be profitable, and a title like that just isn't what it used to be. Plain and simple truth, its how it is now. I'm talking about a FPS/TPS simulation of modern armed conflict.

I.E...

Well ... thought about this just as an free to go on playing, and to help or join creating and pushing forward project. My own reasons to start such a thing is actually an mil-sim of an more than one simulation aspect game that would at the same time teach people something about the tech and the way they work in one place (that means in work as in a game). The hard core thing i meant is actually more of this kind : ... ewery single tech in the game in realistic as hell itself let it be done simulation and handling - gunners at howitzers and older artillery pieces to get theyr sights be defined manually as in real life - the same for tanks/aviation/ships ... it of course means to make a hell of a work on any piece giwen to the game, so the time frame and devotion and learning-manualls to it too ... of course modern ones hawe there the automatics, so there would be theyr handling system simulations done ...
Actuall function is the realism in handling/function/specs of the tech, where i would be glad if in training you could hawe an learning and tech-propagation vid. to hand (or at least the option to open the learning and specs PDF´s right in the game whyle trying it out).
The actuall battle would be as an knowledge tester and adrenalin pusher ... where the option of simplified (lets say arma  style) handling would be as an gamer side of the same mod. Making the needed sceneries for the hardcorrers to play on and with for some units (artillery/tanks/heli´s) and for some just an joyfull game (infantry and light wehicles) .... and hawing some infantry in it too (lets say a collone of thanks is entering an city - heawy teh has sim-handling and the infantry clears the perimeter off AT units witch takes some time - time needed for the simmer-tech to react in the battle and making them so more realistical in action and cooperation ...)

 ... there still will be the fact that cars will be operated trough stic (the 4x4 game way) ...


The result : You get to know the sighting of an BM-21 and try it out. Then in game you get to the firing possition, get out of the car, get to the sights, get the coordinates and make the sighting wheels be set right to hit the target ... salp of rocets on the target witch can be an fortification 8 - 12 km far away with infantry guys or tanks/BTR´s ... whyle the target was sent by one of the reconnaissance teams eather on foot or reacon-vehicles (by Radio-coordinates - GPS/GLONAS - IR lighting means acording to the support unit character).
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on September 03, 2012, 03:29:02 pm
Some beta vid´s has been released : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0PQg0LY2UA&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0PQg0LY2UA&feature=related)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on November 07, 2012, 03:21:34 am
 Hi there all ! ... im still looking on this thing getting real ... actually, my time has some place for that and i hawe started with the BM-21 Grad. (currently on modelling, thinking of getting the actual -17M (trought external sighting device operated) and the new GPS/Glonass sighting based Tornado-G) ... still got a problem with the tornado-G version. Its systems are automated and has an LCD screen of similar functionality as modern fighter-jets. Could anyone help me forehand with how such internal systems work in simulators ?
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Pyroman31FF on May 29, 2013, 04:02:40 am
I totally agree with this, I'm sure it could be made something great. Any plans of work into this idea?

Still at school-problems, but I certainly would require non-less as all-USSR and Russian tech in this little world ... especially some S-300M´s simmulation and the whole BMD´s collection with Air-drop capability ( I wonna be dropped inside that thing from 2 Km height like the real VDV, and prepare the wehicle for fight after getting to earth ! :D  - that would be Project Reality for me.)

P.S.: Its ewen an interesting substitution for the canceled 2-year army training, and all artillery could be used with HL2-like tipps to teach basic balistic physics. (Would not be bad to make it an learn-to-play type game at realistic mode in avionics and other ... (of course, those tipps would be possible to disable)).

Would be cool but impossible. BF and Arma have these things but they don't simulate them. The Devs of real simulators struggle hard to get licenses, work around/ at the border of classified stuff (like radar, avionics and weaponbehaviour).
And don't forget the licenses of the Vehicles themselfes. You can't just build a close to reality Mig29 and try to sell it, without consulting the mikoyancompany for getting their approval.
The devs of the DCS UH1 struggled more than half a year with bell to get their ok.

S300 simulator is btw out there but you have no reference of what you actually do outside your container unless you use tacview for debriefing. You are inside the box, padlocking your eyes to the radarscreen all day long. It would be cool and needed but elsewhere. You don't need OT for this.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on May 29, 2013, 06:57:33 am

Would be cool but impossible. BF and Arma have these things but they don't simulate them. The Devs of real simulators struggle hard to get licenses, work around/ at the border of classified stuff (like radar, avionics and weaponbehaviour).
And don't forget the licenses of the Vehicles themselfes. You can't just build a close to reality Mig29 and try to sell it, without consulting the mikoyancompany for getting their approval.
The devs of the DCS UH1 struggled more than half a year with bell to get their ok.

S300 simulator is btw out there but you have no reference of what you actually do outside your container unless you use tacview for debriefing. You are inside the box, padlocking your eyes to the radarscreen all day long. It would be cool and needed but elsewhere. You don't need OT for this.

Yes, it doesnt end well do go hi-reality on classified stuff ... but actually (till BlackEagle) the older tech still in usage by some post-soviet states could be on real. There are not much still classified things about Vietnam war time tech. and as for more modern, approximations from already public files and use vids. could be done (simply just by the companies publicly made info, and some degree of classic and specific school physics could do the trick well enough)....

 ... there are some areas where the tactical info simply will not be public till 2080. But the main principles of the tech could be made if well enough thought off, and some would be even unnecessary to do (advanced internal systems simulation on the KA-50 from DCA arent there, as nobody would do them anyway (and some still secret too - but other things are made good as real they are)) ... so the modern fighter planes had at least some info about their tech given, making an bulky, but realistic enough fyz. handling would not be bad (and not worse physically correct as the battlefield genres :D :D  -  the new arma isnt bad, but for some reason they fetched for future tech in the last one and im not liking that, as they oversimplified some stuff out of my likings :/ (like that digital mortar) and still have an werry narrow band of tech. - so new ones are handled in theyr parenting ones) - also internal systems start-ups have at least some free hand,as the mechanical systems arent much of a secret (start up procedures for DDR time migs and such time flyers), and digital modern systems have some free hand for imagination, as there are multiple ways and even real firms doing that kind of stuff (so such systems, check-ups and other stuff can be made just out of the reality box, whyle having in mind what it possibly works like and how its handled).
And some areas doesnt have much tech-ups anyway - like artillery: out of digital target acquisition trough 3-rd parties and internal ballistic computing systems there isnt much new stuff. (and laser or else-way corrected projectiles could just use a higher hit-probability rate than conventional when the advanced targeting systems are in work).

At least, i would like to have it freeware based, made and grow by a community for a multiple reasons - it would have all the time to be made as best it can be, people learn a lot of such systems and their tech. while working or finally playing around with it, legal means are somewhat narrower over an sell-product   ....   yes, it would require an normative way of doing all the stuff to work together - thoe nothing impossible actually if the community gets some brains together.

... still OT has a way to go till physics are usable for such things and many things lack their working area at this time. So the best way is to make as much as possible tech models at hi-detail for manual handling (i want a lot of guns and tanks and artillery pieces and ... just all the existing ones at present :D ) and the functionalizing stuff will be handled after OT gets his fangs out properly (so we have time to argue and debate about that kind of details to be implemented) :D ...
My dream is to one day have the entire Groznyj city and surrounding important villages where heavy fights were, made in OT from the times of the first and second Chechen war and make those battlefield as real they were as possible.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Pyroman31FF on May 29, 2013, 07:46:49 am
Are you from germany?

I also would like to see a fully fledged military simulator on the verge of classification for OT because this engine is capable of doing this. But i don't know what will be in 10 years, how the market changes and what other companies will offer us then. It would approximately take between 5 to 10 years to deliver a simulation with a hand full of aircrafts at DCS A10c level, built from scratch with just the outerraengine. By that time DCS will have a much wider variety of planes, a sophisticated engine in terms of aerial warfare, BMS will have more then F16's of the level their F16 is right now (i'm speaking of hornets or mirages). RoF and BoS will have been developed to fill the desires for WW1 and WW2 Aviation. Not to mention that they surely will work in the shadows of en koreanaera simulator, like they did while creating Cliffs of Dover. (CloD also will be far more progressed by that time, if the original Team doesn't sue down team fusion).

So what i want to tell here is that if a flightsim will get created right now on OT it will be released in an well established environment and therefore most likely will get problems of beeing accepted by the customers at first.

But! That all would not count if you do some parallelworld/sci fi/ steampunkstuff.
As long as the Objects behave like they look like to do, it's fine. There wouldn't be the typical FM debates.

Ah and while wer'e at it, just cloning arma would be a sufficiant buyingreason if they just add proper rudders for planes and choppers. Since OFP this wad never achieved there and thats a showstopper.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: PytonPago on May 29, 2013, 03:13:00 pm
Well, we dont have the need to compete with DCS, (they have too some support from the mil.-avia. companies) Just make our own version at our own speed - OTs good side at this would be a full-spectrum warfare posability ... try thinking that the Combined Arms would by at a Steal Beast level and with infantry capabilities of Arma III added to DCS. Where heat seeking and laser-pointed/guided arms would be simply intractable (just the same base way of work for all types) ... I still wait for rigid axle suspension and wont to make my grad unit work, when school test-season ends for me. Then the fun part starts, and no more mouse clicking for craters. Salvo fire !  ;D    .... i thought too about the fine animation possibilities of Arma for the infantry - would be nice implement such movements for characters in general for OT in the future, and make gun-pointing as an addition to it (a way to simply and fast add animations to OT for characters and have a great database of them getting created would be nice - then just enable some of them for certain characters individually and give key-bindings at will). But where the really bad things come for are Interactive rocket systems (AA, cruise, - simply all that would be possible to intercept white S-400/Patriot systems, or just parachute AT-systems for Multiple rocket systems and special launchers - there has to be some thought and discussion to come). Still, time as hell for that stuff, as there is a lot to do for Cameni and co on the engine itself.  ... doe there is some model-difficulty there, i would like them very detailed for full-clic use (all, even cars if possible) so there is the need or 4 LODs (hi-detail + 3 lesser for far away) + destroyed all with theyr normal and thermal  textures ... where, i do not have much idea, how destruction modelling of the DCS planes level should be made. (will have look that up - would be nice to hawe trucks damaged mildly by 12,7 caliber, other for mine-destruction and other for RPGs/missiles) :-\ Making such models will take time too, but, my first play started to make me a lot of fun, and i learn much. (Just gone trough the entire function mechanism of all grad suited rockets and chemistry involved - and wow what i found out about news from FR planned for the next gen Taifun/Tornado-G systems) ... i would be werry happy if i could make some way to get informational captions to all such things running for each vehicle/weapon and get the physics explained some nice graphical way in OT. It would be easier for some folks to go those trough in game than to look up the manual all the time (i hated that when i learned to operate the Eagle-Dynamics Kamov two years ago) and propagate physics and other sciences in the process a little.  --- If that would all go well, there will be no need to die-hard compete with other genres, it would be something new and interesting among them in the future (and something i personally feel a lack for in them).


P.S.: Not German - Slovak. Doe i speak and understand Deutsch sehr gut.  :)


As for the story - an MGS way of Outer Heaven world of proxy wars and dynamic battlefields would be nice. Doe, the Cold-War period politics and scenes were actually of the same effect, only trough ideologies. (Kojima would probably kill me for that) :)

Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Pyroman31FF on May 29, 2013, 03:26:54 pm
U said DDR and most foreign speakers would not use this term as it was known as GDR ;)

If a company with big manpower starts to build such a game it could be done in a reasonable time. But it probably would be quite hard to get funded. Thats why we have to face call of dutylike games for many years now. Arma and Ro stem the tide a bit and there are at least 2 other titles worked on at the moment which will contribute to the realismsector for infantery battles :)
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Arcani on June 15, 2013, 04:19:47 pm
Hey guys,
So, I've read the thread and I think there are four problems: the setting, the business plan, the staff and the items we need.

This post is posing the questions, my next post will be my suggestions for the above.
Title: Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
Post by: Arcani on June 15, 2013, 04:57:17 pm
Hey guys,
So, I've read the thread and I think there are four problems: the setting, the business plan, the staff and the items we need.

This post is posing the questions, my next post will be my suggestions for the above.

Setting
I'm going to go for a sci-fi Mil-sim.
I have my own Sci-fi setting that's a mix between Halo, Warhammer 40,000 and a lot of my ideas. I'm still working on it and hope to have it done during this summer break when I'm out of school.

Business Plan
Selling:
We'd have to get a license from the developers and pay them royalties. We'd also have to have an advertising campaign, set wages for workers, all that.
Modding:
No license, free.

Items
These are the things we'd need for the game.
Story:
Are we going to script animation and characters into a campaign, or are we going to let it be free roam multiplayer?
Characters (modeled, textured, rigged, animated):
Human- Male, female. Multiple human factions.
Aliens- At least three species, male and female.
Vehicles:
Various, at least for every species one set. For Human factions and different alien factions there might be multiple variations for each one.
Also, what types, aerial and land is a given, but what about naval and spacial vehicles? Hover vehicles instead of wheeled or tread land vehicles?
Missions:
Most missions are single player, but players can go onto real-time Multiplayer servers that have a constantly changing environments where people can jump in (Planet Side 2 style) or host their own set up missions that are not constant and are run by a host "DM or GM" (Arma 3 style for some missions).
Terrain:
Multiple planets, just the one. To capture the timeline of the universe I think we need multiple planets.
AI:
There should be AI to aid the players and as enemies.
Commands:
Players should be able to give AI commands like in Arma, e.g. "Go there." "Cover fire." "Stay alert."
Editor:
People should be allowed to create their own mission parameters, on servers there should be moderators that can do active mission changes and DM the game, both for the constant world and the set missions.

Staff
Modelers
Riggers
Textures
Scripters
Animators
Technical Directors
Writers
Project Managers
Business Managers
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