Outerra forum

Outerra Engine => Development screen shots and videos => Topic started by: cameni on April 26, 2012, 11:01:46 am

Title: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: cameni on April 26, 2012, 11:01:46 am
Here are couple of images with terrain self-shadowing in action.

(http://i.minus.com/jePAKzmmVDFci.png) (http://minus.com/lePAKzmmVDFci)
(http://i.minus.com/jm492uMVeVJo4.png) (http://minus.com/lm492uMVeVJo4)
(http://i.minus.com/jvT2iGDX8UlUE.png) (http://minus.com/lvT2iGDX8UlUE)
(http://i.minus.com/jozUfJVnDa5Dh.png) (http://minus.com/lozUfJVnDa5Dh)
(http://i.minus.com/jII6PNvUSJ6wH.png) (http://minus.com/lII6PNvUSJ6wH)

There are still several issues and bugs to solve before it can be made public though, as it doesn't work in all conditions yet. I've selected only the nice ones :)
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Luishi5k0 on April 26, 2012, 11:23:06 am
Woo! I've been waiting for this update! Looks great, I can't wait to see it in action. Great work!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Edding3000 on April 26, 2012, 11:35:10 am
NICE!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: XZS on April 26, 2012, 11:38:21 am
It is not just better, it almost changes the whole thing! Now it gives me the motivation to do an other time-lapse video.
Congratulations, Cameni.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: zuluknob on April 26, 2012, 11:56:45 am
how easy would it be for you to add in shadow PCSS? was gonna ask if you could release the uncompiled shaders so i could have a look myself but seeing as how your messing with them atm here's the link for the shader source...http://developer.download.nvidia.com/shaderlibrary/webpages/shader_library.html#shadow_PCSS (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/shaderlibrary/webpages/shader_library.html#shadow_PCSS)
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: ZeosPantera on April 26, 2012, 12:22:33 pm
Does it block the sun haze that appears through the mountains? Like this.

(http://i.minus.com/ieKsFTMRc75eV.png)
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Bartolomeus on April 26, 2012, 12:37:33 pm
Amazing! Great update. The self-shadowing looks pretty cool!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: JackDawson on April 26, 2012, 12:44:43 pm
Talk about doubling the quality of this engine..  Keep up the great work !!!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: cameni on April 26, 2012, 01:46:07 pm
Does it block the sun haze that appears through the mountains?
Not yet, it's one of the things that need to be fixed.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Edding3000 on April 26, 2012, 02:42:52 pm
Does it also have issues with really acute angles of the sun?
I tried some terrain self shadowing and remember having huge problems when the sun approaches the horizon!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: bakho on April 26, 2012, 03:00:20 pm
Yeah !
Quick questions :

How much is it affecting framerate ?
Do you plan to add soft shadows ?
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: cameni on April 26, 2012, 03:42:01 pm
We didn't make any measurements yet, as the algorithm is going to change, to fix glitches, expand the range. It should speed it up as well.

Acute angles - the light gains darker orange colors, contrast is lower, so the errors are less visible even though that case can be problematic. But it's too soon to tell too.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Jagerbomber on April 26, 2012, 06:44:07 pm
A bit off topic and I know there isn't actually a real sun in there yet, but is the optical illusion that causes the sun/moon to look larger at the horizon be doable?  And would it be an actual optical illusion or just making the sun physically larger when it's at the horizon?
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on April 26, 2012, 10:33:45 pm
I logged in this afternoon, and missed this thread completely.  Log in now to clean up the unread posts icons, and kick myself in the behind for missing it entirely.

Holy cow, that's gorgeous :)  I can't wait!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: cameni on April 27, 2012, 01:20:24 am
A bit off topic and I know there isn't actually a real sun in there yet, but is the optical illusion that causes the sun/moon to look larger at the horizon be doable?  And would it be an actual optical illusion or just making the sun physically larger when it's at the horizon?
Well, since the illusion is in your brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion), it should work without us doing anything, as long as there are accompanying details near the horizon that make up for it. I personally never noticed Moon being extra larger, except in Hollywood movies and infected games. We won't.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Jagerbomber on April 27, 2012, 05:09:01 pm
is in your brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion)
Whaaat...  That's bullcrap.

I was taught that it does magnify it and on several occasions I've even seen weathermen say that it does... Not that they're accurate.  :P
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Foxiol on April 28, 2012, 06:39:56 pm
This is looking and getting better and better. Keep it up with the amazing job!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on April 28, 2012, 10:08:24 pm
is in your brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion)
Whaaat...  That's bullcrap.

I was taught that it does magnify it and on several occasions I've even seen weathermen say that it does... Not that they're accurate.  :P

It's an optical illusion.  Get a used TP cardboard tube, or one from paper towels.  Look at the moon when it's directly above, and then look at it when it looks bigger toward the horizon (first without the tube, then with).  It's the exact same size.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: ZeosPantera on April 28, 2012, 11:27:15 pm
I recall hearing something about the atmosphere warping the view to space when you look via a severe angle IE the horizon. Not going to argue whether that was true or just BS.

I can't wait to do my FOV speech discussing "the man on the moon" when people start complaining the moon looks too small. This might be the first game to put the moon to actual scale. I have to believe most games double the moon or more to make it appear "correct" with 90° H-Fov.
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: monks on May 04, 2012, 04:09:41 pm
Looking better all the time guys!

monks
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: DeltaSim on May 04, 2012, 04:16:22 pm
It's not an illusion - it's just a distorted image of whatever you look at through tons of non-uniform air:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction)

Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on May 04, 2012, 04:35:22 pm
It's not an illusion - it's just a distorted image of whatever you look at through tons of non-uniform air:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction)

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/20jun_moonillusion/ (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/20jun_moonillusion/)
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: DeltaSim on May 05, 2012, 12:47:32 am
OK - didn't know that; all I knew of was refraction. Thanks, I'll have to try it out next time!
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: C. Shawn Smith on May 05, 2012, 12:55:14 am
It's actually only half-correct ... there IS a slight change in size due to atmospheric refraction, but it tends to "elongate" the object viewed, rather than magnify it.  The toilet-paper roll experiment will solve the issue once and for all for anyone who engages in it.  Also, the camera experiment will do it too.

I'm an amateur astronomy (well, more accurately, I used to be, but thinking about taking it up again soon, now that there are telescopes that allow anyone to control them -- See this article (http://www.astrosaur.us/2012/05/01/amateur-astronomy-without-leaving-the-house/) for more information -- I haven't tried any of it yet, but I'm taking my timing learning all about it before I take the plunge).  Lot's of cool stuff out there to be learned.

And er, sorry to hijack the thread, Cameni :)  *cough*
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: Chaoss on May 11, 2012, 05:25:22 am
One thing I've just noticed, the trees don't cast shadows
Title: Re: Terrain self-shadowing preview
Post by: XZS on May 14, 2012, 09:54:51 am
One thing I've just noticed, the trees don't cast shadows

Until trees are real 3D objects and not flat 2D sprites, I guess it is safe to turn it off for now :)

I've got a question, not exactly related to self-shadowing itself, but will it be possible to add time command when you'll release it ?
(see this topic : http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=813 (http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=813) ).
Making a time-lapse video with self-shadowing will be just wonderful, in my opinion !