Outerra forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Outerra Tech Demo download. Help with graphics driver issues

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces  (Read 23549 times)

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« on: July 24, 2012, 12:32:27 pm »

Hello all - first post.

I came here seeking information on a potential SDK (software development kit) for Outerra, and I'm still poking around and learning as Anteworld continues to download....

My first love is simulated aviation, and that is because this form of flying gives me the chance to see far more of our world than I will ever be able to afford to see otherwise.

I am an X-Plane addict.  I'm also an X-Plane development addict - I create airplanes and customized extensions of X-Plane via Laminar's very robust SDK system.  This is a new SDK discussion - the last one died in January.

I would like to pursue using Outerra as a graphical extension of X-Plane, using X-Plane physics and avionics with Outerra visuals.

What is the current state of Outerra in this area?

Logged

cameni

  • Brano Kemen
  • Outerra Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6542
  • Pegs is clever, but tae hain’t a touch sentimental
    • outerra.com
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 02:46:07 pm »

There's still no SDK or APIs for doing what you want, but it will be one of things going to be developed this year mainly as a part of our other, non-game business. Some of it will be going back to the public game version to fulfill the promise of possibility to use Anteworld as an image generator in connection with FS/FSX and X-Plane.

Apart from this connection that should be relatively simple, we will also have to find out how to feed back the elevation data to X-Plane, so that the collision data can fit the visuals everywhere. Hopefully we'll be able to figure out the integration howtos with the help of some dedicated fans :)
Logged

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 03:16:38 pm »

We're thinking the same thing, cameni.  While crash detection will be desirable, the main thing will be some sort of interplay as to when the aircraft is on a runway.  Collision detection will have to remain within Outerra, but there's bound to be situations where the X-Plane terrain would actually be higher, and that would be like flying into an invisible mountain.

The key gain from the merge of Outerra and X-Plane would be X-Plane's flight dynamics and systems modeling.  Given that both would have to be running at the same time, it might be necessary to run the merger on two computers.

The main solution I see is to use the Outerra world and to modify the X-Plane Global scenery so that the whole planet is nothing but water.  Without terrain, the airports still exist - just at sea level.  So while the aircraft is on the ground, the Outerra physics engine would rule.  X-Plane flight dynamics would only apply after the aircraft took off.

While there may be a way to integrate the two into a comfortable desktop experience, my aim is more to support the full size cockpit community, mainly people running more than one computer to satisfy their flight sim yen.
Logged

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 03:32:12 pm »

One thing I should add to the my reply above:  Outerra/Anteworld will benefit enormously from the ability to read and write directly into the running simulation.  X-Plane handles this with a robust data reference system in their SDK.  It is also possible to send commands into the simulation via plugin.  These two features alone constitute a tremendous amount of capability.  For great reading on this, I recommend visiting the site of the X-Plane SDK, starting here:  http://www.xsquawkbox.net/xpsdk/mediawiki/Documentation
Logged

cameni

  • Brano Kemen
  • Outerra Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6542
  • Pegs is clever, but tae hain’t a touch sentimental
    • outerra.com
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 03:37:52 pm »

I have no idea how it's done in X-plane, but for JSBSim there are hooks where it provides rays (point + direction and length limit) and wants to know how far the contact point lies on that ray. AFAIK it produces the rays to check for the wheels and for a couple of other points like wing endpoints etc. If something like that was in X-Plane it would be easily adaptable.

Otherwise, the interaction with ground is rather important part of the simulation, and I can't quite imagine how it could work with two physics engines - JSBSim for the ground where it also simulates the suspension produced forces, and X-Plane only for the air. Even if the JSBSim engine can be (ab)used by turning off every aerodynamic force, we would still need to provide the ground interaction forces to X-Plane as some external forces so it can include them in its physics simulation ...
Logged

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 04:19:45 pm »

No question that the integration of the two physics engines would be a challenge.  But I suspect development of the initial SDK is more of a concern than a  unique merging at this point.  There is a function in the X-Plane SDK that probes for height above the terrain mesh.  Collision detection is not something that has been exposed, however.....except perhaps by dataref.  I think at this point the smart move for me will be to wait and see what you choose to release for the Outerra SDK, and then work forward from there.
Logged

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 04:17:31 pm »

One question that I didn't think of here....is the planned SDK going to be in C/C++ or some other language?
Logged

cameni

  • Brano Kemen
  • Outerra Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6542
  • Pegs is clever, but tae hain’t a touch sentimental
    • outerra.com
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 04:29:56 pm »

Primarily C/C++, but since we use code generators to generate the interfaces, there will be also others. For example, since the UI is done in html+JS, the interfaces will be also generated for javascript, accessible from UI but also possibly from web services.
Logged

Steve.Wilson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Home Cockpit Builder
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 05:23:06 pm »

That sounds very good.  Anything that has to run inside the simulation on an every-frame basis will benefit from C/C++, naturally.  Interface customization will be markedly easier in HTML and Java.  Sounds like modder paradise.  ;)
Logged

hans

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • newbie
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 04:57:41 am »

I am very interested in using Outerra as a visualization for the PAL-V flight simulator, as I now use FlightGear with the external FDM setting, and use Matlab for calculating the state of the vehicle. It does require a two way communication because Matlab needs to know the ground elevation at the wheel points. Do you think this could be implemented in the future? It would be amazing to have the PAL-V flying and driving in Outerra!
Logged

cameni

  • Brano Kemen
  • Outerra Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6542
  • Pegs is clever, but tae hain’t a touch sentimental
    • outerra.com
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 07:02:31 am »

It's actually already there, there's an IGC interface to Outerra that allows you to write a plugin that communicates with it. See the API and an example plugin code: ot-api.zip
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 06:04:23 am by cameni »
Logged

hans

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • newbie
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 03:22:08 am »

Thank you for the plugin, it sounds promising but I do not have the knowledge to implement this myself.
Logged

Steve Jones

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 5
  • Flight Simulator Developer
    • GameEngineer
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 05:31:05 pm »

Any word on the SDK? 
Logged
Software Engineer: General Atomics Aeronautical Systems - http://www.ga-asi.com/
Instructor:  www.gameinstitute.com
Personal: www.gameengineer.net/
"Learn the hard stuff, take the challenge."

cameni

  • Brano Kemen
  • Outerra Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6542
  • Pegs is clever, but tae hain’t a touch sentimental
    • outerra.com
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 02:22:00 am »

So far the released public "SDK" is composed of an IGC (image generator control, for using OT as a visualizer) API and tracker API, ot-api.zip.
Logged

Black Phoenix

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • Black Phoenix's Brain Blog
Re: Flight Simulation and SDK Developed Software Interfaces
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 03:50:14 pm »

So far the released public "SDK" is composed of an IGC (image generator control, for using OT as a visualizer) API and tracker API, ot-api.zip.

Great news! Now I can start work on integrating my physics engine with it. When/Are you planning an API to load custom meshes into Outerra? Something that would be loaded and drawn as another world object, at API-controlled position.

I should probably update my aerospace simulator thread which is buried somewhere...

Additional question, what kind of requirement version-wise is there for using the API (aka can I use the free tech-demo available, do I need the full sandbox, etc)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 04:02:16 pm by Black Phoenix »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3