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[WP]

Any plans to list yourself on Steam's Greenlight?  They allow alphas, and Anteworld is much more fun than some of the stuff that's already been approved.  I wouldn't be surprised if you guys got greenlit in the next round if you list yourselves soon.

[ZeosPantera]

I think after a bit more maturing a Kickstarter is an order. After that greenlight the hell out of anything you want.

[cameni]

I think we need to provide some basic gameplay first, to be more interesting for the general gamer population, in comparison to mostly simulator players here.
I just hope that we will be able to get the Steam client working nicely with OT, when that happens.

[Deutschmark]

O NO!!! Your going to put this on Steam?
That will count me right out, I don't do Steam games, and never will...
I like games that are stand alone on my PC that I can mod pass my mods
To others and host a server that others can join.

Deutschmark

[cameni]

Last time I checked you could do a Steam release in addition to other distribution channels, but it indeed can be a problem because Valve may put some constraints there. Notch wrote something about it here, though it's a bit odd and unclear, perhaps intentionally.

I see Steam mostly as a marketing platform that can bring a lot of players that we would otherwise miss. However, I can bet there will be some complications, because of how we manage our users and store data in our backend cloud etc.

O NO!!! Your going to put this on Steam?

The question is, what do you mean by this?
This is an engine, and you can't put an engine on Steam. If we are going to put something on Steam, it would be a single game. And probably it will be worth the effort only if we can make the game a gateway to the Outerra World. Honestly, given that we aim for the OW to be a platform, that makes it somewhat a competition to Steam ...

[Deutschmark]

Hi cameni, what I meant by ( this ) is a game / platform, so let me ask this,

Anteworld is the demo game, right
Outerra is the game engine, right

So will there be some kind of a game made with Outerra that one can purchase from you and have as a stand alone on their PC without Steam? and make mods for it and give out the mods to others that have this same game on their PC and when MP is put into this game engine or game made with Outerra will we be able to host a server for that game that others that have it can join, even a pear to pear would be ok as that is the way I use one of my games now.

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[cameni]

Sure, I said that was our primary path. Releasing something on the Steam would be just means to get a wider user base, but I doubt we could sell a game platform on Steam, so it would be just a one game aimed specifically at the Steam community. An advertisement.

But even for that one advertisement game (for example, a FPS mode of Anteworld, renamed and packaged specifically for Steam including a free pass to the "real" Anteworld/OW), we would like to preserve the ability to mod it etc.
So are you saying that Steam games can't be modded?

[Deutschmark]

Am not saying Steam games can't be modded, but they control what mods they want their users to have and if a user is using something they do not allow in that game the user can be ban, so its not a free open thing that's why I do not do Steam games, I like the open modding of a game and with that I find that the good mods made will rise to the top of the list and the not so good ones will fall to the bottom of the list and am ok with that and I also see that most people are as well.

Deutschmark 

[ZeosPantera]

Deutschmark you would need to look at how Arma2 was handled on steam. It had retail packaging, Direct2Drive and a Steam release..


Once it was downloaded from the steam servers you NEVER needed to run steam again. There is a folder structure and exe that you can launch without ever opening up steam or completely move out of the steam directory if you like. You can even update the client on it's own and it doesn't even use the steam multiplayer network.

All you are doing is downloading the game from steam it doesn't need to do anything else.

[WP]

Notch wrote something about it here, though it's a bit odd and unclear, perhaps intentionally.

Apparently most of Notch's problems with Steam have been addressed with Steam's new Workshop system.  Although in a recent PC gamer article Notch still said that he still won't be releasing any of his games on Steam because he doesn't want to support a monopoly.

And probably it will be worth the effort only if we can make the game a gateway to the Outerra World. Honestly, given that we aim for the OW to be a platform, that makes it somewhat a competition to Steam ...

This is interesting... I was under the impression that OT was the engine and that Anteworld was the "public face" of that engine.  IE that it was basically going to be a pretty open and mod-able game similar to Minecraft.  I didn't realize you guys are planning on making a whole Outerra World portal.

Am not saying Steam games can't be modded, but they control what mods they want their users to have and if a user is using something they do not allow in that game the user can be ban, so its not a free open thing that's why I do not do Steam games, I like the open modding of a game and with that I find that the good mods made will rise to the top of the list and the not so good ones will fall to the bottom of the list and am ok with that and I also see that most people are as well.

Deutschmark

I've never heard of people getting banned from steam for using mods, only hacks (IE MP cheats).  Can you be a bit more specific with your examples?

Also, you should check out the Steam Workshop, since it's pretty much what you are describing.  Anyone can post mods, and users vote up the best ones.  They even have a system in place where the best mods can earn money for their creators.

[Deutschmark]

From WP;

( I've never heard of people getting banned from steam for using mods, only hacks (IE MP cheats). Can you be a bit more specific with your examples? )

Yes I can, when IL2 Cliffs of Dover ( COD ) came out the user could not even put so much as a new skin in their games or the user that played COD on line through Steam servers with these costom skins would louse their Steam account without any warning as it was looked at as a hack / cheat by the Steam server, but as far as I know now that was all taken care to by 1C / UBi and Steam as many skinners are now posting new skins at my site for COD, but at the start it was that way and thats why I said that.

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[Kviki]

You won't get banned from steam by using mods. That's the end of the story. Cheats are an entirely different thing, and if you use them you'd only be eligible for bans if you use them in official multiplayer servers.  Steam doesn't look whether a user has changed some kind of a texture in the game just to ban them. That would be hilarious if they did.

And steam has 0 control of what their customers are going to mod. The customer is free to mod a game (if it's moddable) entirely. The mods may come from workshop or from other sites which host 'em.

AAAND, there may be some mods which would be detectable by Valve-Anti-Cheat (VAC) which would prevent you from playing further on VAC protected servers.

[Deutschmark]

Well you can have a read here if you like,
http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=32294&p=355859#p355859
See the ( ***VERY IMPORTANT*** ) at the bottom, that is what COD skinners put on their download post of costom skins they did for that game when it first came out on steam, but like I said above it was a short time after and it was all taken care to and now you dont see that ( very important ) on skinners post anymore.

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[ZeosPantera]

Have 20 real life friends and 270 steam friends all with hundreds of dollars worth of games on steam.. Nobody gets banned. Nobody complains. It just works.

Had this same argument months back when rFactor2 brought up steam as a distribution option.

[WP]

From WP;

( I've never heard of people getting banned from steam for using mods, only hacks (IE MP cheats). Can you be a bit more specific with your examples? )

Yes I can, when IL2 Cliffs of Dover ( COD ) came out the user could not even put so much as a new skin in their games or the user that played COD on line through Steam servers with these costom skins would louse their Steam account without any warning as it was looked at as a hack / cheat by the Steam server, but as far as I know now that was all taken care to by 1C / UBi and Steam as many skinners are now posting new skins at my site for COD, but at the start it was that way and thats why I said that.

Deutschmark

Well, like you said, it was a bug.  Steam does not actually limit what mods you install.  They simply had a bug in their hack detection, and from what you said it sounds like they fixed it so it's not even a problem anymore.

There are many valid reasons to dislike Steam, but in this case I think it's a bit unfair to blame them for a coding error that has already been fixed.  Especially since it seems like it only happened with that one game.