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Author Topic: Custom textures version 2.0  (Read 25424 times)

7HUND3R

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 02:49:04 pm »

The download link is broken.
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HORUSRA

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 08:05:52 pm »

Any changes on patterns of rock walls (and textures) for next releases?. I think it would be an awesome improvement for the realism to see places like this with rock layers and more "flat" walls:

Preikestolen

http://megaconstrucciones.net/?construccion=preikestolen

Cervino

http://www.posets.com/blog/?p=1463


Blyde River Canyon:



Famara beach (Lanzarote) (can't attach photo, but is an interesting transition between rock wall and sandy beach)
http://www.fotonatura.org/galerias/fotos/462146/


Teide (Tenerife, Canary Islands)


Volcanic

http://elseptimoviajero.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/lanzarote-senderismo-entre-volcanes/


http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g294314-d311726-i18091790-Sacsayhuaman-Cusco_Cusco_Region.html
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 08:28:24 pm by HORUSRA »
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PytonPago

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 11:58:34 pm »

Could be a little challenge to find functions giving certain types of stones in great variability. Also, there might be some definition needed for it, to make the engine know, where what type of rock should be (in terms of local layers) and some blending between them. You would probably need some 3D map of mineral layering (but maybe some simple function with height and biome-type surrounding could be used too) for the whole globe - not sure if something like that was ewer done in scientific terms even in rough data-displacement. It would be really classy to have that, as ores and special minerals could be defined and modified for each planet (and greater realism achieved), but that would need probably some terrain modification tools too, to check, if ya can dig to that place to find, if its right, where it should be ... (and for us to speculate with - that means caves to be implemented too). ... and i need to make a heavy-tractor for that.  :D
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HiFlyer

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 07:15:08 am »

I think if Outerra supplies the tools, then lots of busy beavers out there would start populating the world with various features.


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zombie00

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 12:19:43 pm »

Could be a little challenge to find functions giving certain types of stones in great variability. Also, there might be some definition needed for it, to make the engine know, where what type of rock should be (in terms of local layers) and some blending between them. You would probably need some 3D map of mineral layering (but maybe some simple function with height and biome-type surrounding could be used too) for the whole globe - not sure if something like that was ewer done in scientific terms even in rough data-displacement. It would be really classy to have that, as ores and special minerals could be defined and modified for each planet (and greater realism achieved), but that would need probably some terrain modification tools too, to check, if ya can dig to that place to find, if its right, where it should be ... (and for us to speculate with - that means caves to be implemented too). ... and i need to make a heavy-tractor for that.  :D

I'm not that savvy on technical things (and many other things haha), so this might be a naive idea, but wouldn't it be possible to label certain rock types directly into the source data for the world making? Maybe a second, hand-crafted, data source or something akin to how biomes work? Or even one map for elevation, another one just for the rock type?
(Again, really ignorant me trying to get the idea through)
http://i.imgur.com/idg2DzY.png
Where:
-Red is Limestone (http://seekraz.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/limestone-mountain.jpg)
-Sky blue is Hawaiite (http://people.whitman.edu/~pogue/images/climbing/royal.jpg) and
-Yellow is Adakite (http://plate-tectonic.narod.ru/volal-adak_tundra.jpg)
Wouldn't make sense in this case, it's just an example.

The outcome wouldn't be absolutely realistic, but it would add a lot of diversity and make the scenes more believable.
There could even be different fractals patterns for each rock type to get distinctive shapes. The same could be applied to coast lines so not all of them are just sand (or the same kind of sand, in Alaska and many other places, the coast is form by small spherical rocks).
There is more to it, mountains aren't shape sorely based on the type of rock (if anything, that's holds more relevance on the colouration and texture), the kind of erosion that affects the area would also close the gap between the real world and Outerra. But that does start to complicate things a bit too much. Maybe just setting up a couple of archetypes that would determinate the way rocks and elevations are made would give enough control to allow crafting believable landscapes.
Again, simple example:
-Sedimentary rock 1 (http://www.earth.ox.ac.uk/~oesis/field/medium/quartzite.jpg)
-Sedimentary rock 2 (http://anotherwalkinthepark.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/capitolreef_canyonlands1-3172.jpg)
-Igneous rock 1 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Ascension_Island_Black_igneous_rocks.jpg)
-Igneous rock 2 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/S-Basalt.JPG) Polygonal basalt is awesome!
-Metamorphic rock 1 (http://vagrantviking.com/images/Def%20and%20Met1.jpg)
-Metamorphic rock 2 (http://saturniancosmology.org/files/geology/Sect2_1a_files/Slide1.jpg)

*Note: the metamorphic rock is, basically, some other type of stone modified by the action of some external factor (water, wind, etc), not something that would cover big landmasses, but would work perfectly for certain parts.

This would increase vastly the possibilities for fictional worlds, where people isn't expecting a 1:1 reproduction of how things look IRL and the creators can take some creative freedom.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 01:39:14 pm by zombie00 »
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cameni

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 01:52:59 am »

It's one of the things we want to do, and Kelvin also found some usable global datasets for the rocks that we need to compile into OT format and incorporate into the generator, using it initially for the textures. It will probably contain probabilities of major rock types, with fractal mixer picking up the most probable one for given location.

From that we should be also able to use it for modulation of fractal patterns, but for that we need to do some testing first.
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Andy81le

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2014, 05:49:06 am »

Did you have a look at www.onegeology.org for the rock maps? If you need any help in determining the best textures for a rock type I could help due to my occupation as a geologist and sedimentologist.

I think it would be quite easy to determine a specific regional texture set based on the geology that is prevalent. This does not include a distinction between sedimentary, metamorphic and magmatic rocks, necessarily. It should be done at leasy by continent and/or climatic region due to specific differences between the continents and weathering (in turn due to differences in rainfall, yearly average temperatures, etc). It comes down to how detailed you guys want to include the geological "background" in determining the textures.

Based on the geological maps it is very straightforward to determine stratification patterns (yes or no), prevalent color and general structure of the rocks. For example, magmatic rocks are, in general, not stratified, while both sedimentary rock and metamorphic rock (schist) can both show layering/stratification. In the group of sedimentary rocks, there would be a distinct difference between limestone and sandstone for example, with limestone being more whitish/greyisch and sandstone tends to be more yellowish. Both also show differences in their general look, with massive resistant limestone (except for karst) and layered, detailed sandstone. This can be determined using a geological map, more specifically a lithology map (not a map of geological age!).

Cheers,
Andy

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:18:54 am by Andy81le »
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Atrax

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2014, 06:09:23 am »

Cameni if you do this it will be freaking off the hook. Then it will really look lifelike.
Hope we'll see some progress towards that soon. :)

cameni

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2014, 08:25:29 am »

Yes we saw the site back when looking at the rock data. If I remember it right, Kelvin tried to contact onegeology.org for info about a global lithological dataset that we could use, but I don't remember him getting an answer. But maybe he'll be able to give more info.

We have exchanged a few emails with a couple of geologists from USGS who pointed us to some partially usable data, like the US-only geologic maps at http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/state/, or a (too coarse and general) world maps at http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/worldgeol.html. There's now also GLiM, but we haven't checked that one yet.

Of course, we would be grateful for any help from an expert in this regard. We ended up looking at a USGS dataset with discrete sample points and base rock types / colors, that I planned to project into global probability maps that could be used by OT generator (which is working with probabilities). Those samples are problematic though - not consistent lithological data and coverage, from what I've been told.

Getting representative seamlessly repeatable textures isn't actually such a big problem, but proper categorization and matching with a global map data is. Also, to be able to produce the right look for given rock type, we need to create some seamless rock pattern textures (a kind of bump maps), that will be used by the generator as the source from which it can create proper shapes procedurally. We will probably have to create these from photos of cliffs, provided we can find a suitable collection of photos with similar scale.
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Andy81le

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2014, 05:20:21 pm »

Based on what you have written, the following publication and the datasets might be of great value for you guys:

Article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2012GC004370/abstract

Gridded test dataset (0.5 degrees; low resolution): http://doi.pangaea.de/10.1594/PANGAEA.788537

The main author is Prof Hartmann of the University of Hamburg: http://www.geo.uni-hamburg.de/de/geologie/personen/hartmann_jens.html

You can contact him and ask for the availability of the data etc. You could, for example, make the case that Outerra could be used for research in terms of lithology, such as a visualisation tool etc.

If not, I could contact him and ask, although I do not know him personally, only some colleagues of his.

Cheers,
Andy


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M7

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2014, 06:55:23 pm »

Just try a quick mockup of a texture add to an ingame mountain screenshot. I tried to find the most boring type (without any other patterns, no snow, no grass). Looks like by doing an horizontal projection from a stone texture, it's possible to achieve an interesting effect. It's pretty much the same idea as the ground patterns but applied to mountains.

I guess at first, it would have to be pretty generic with a hanfull of possible pattern.

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HiFlyer

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2014, 07:07:28 pm »

That would probably work very well in the grand canyon area........
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cameni

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 08:57:15 am »

Based on what you have written, the following publication and the datasets might be of great value for you guys:

Article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2012GC004370/abstract

Gridded test dataset (0.5 degrees; low resolution): http://doi.pangaea.de/10.1594/PANGAEA.788537

The main author is Prof Hartmann of the University of Hamburg: http://www.geo.uni-hamburg.de/de/geologie/personen/hartmann_jens.html

You can contact him and ask for the availability of the data etc. You could, for example, make the case that Outerra could be used for research in terms of lithology, such as a visualisation tool etc.

If not, I could contact him and ask, although I do not know him personally, only some colleagues of his.

Thanks, so that's GLiM. Relatively low res, but usable, provided we will be allowed to use it. We certainly plan for Outerra to be usable and useful for scientific purposes, but there are always some issues with getting the data or being able to use them for all purposes.



I wonder if we could get access to source or intermediate data that were used to make this, that would be better suitable for mapping to probabilities of occurrence. Although we can process also these types of color coded map data, there's a lot of information lost in the whole process, especially since the deduction of component probabilities is completely heuristic. I will contact Prof Hartmann to see what the possibilities are (I can list you in CC if you want). I hope I'll be able to express myself clearly, not mutilating the terminology or anything :)
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HORUSRA

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Re: Custom textures version 2.0
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2014, 12:00:36 pm »

That would probably work very well in the grand canyon area........

In a lot of canyons around the world. But in shallow canyons, more accurate terrain data it would be necessary, apart from new patterns and textures, wouldn't it?


Hoces del Duratón (Spain)



large photo
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C_U_VY7yz-g/TFW3E2u1LDI/AAAAAAAAAM8/3g4YQSpGDZI/s1600/P1160643.jpg


Hoces del Cabriel (Spain)




"Hoces" is the plural of word "hoz", in spanish is used for narrow valleys like examples above
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoz_(geograf%C3%ADa)


Other type of canyons (granitic?). In current state, engine does match very well :D :D

Cañón río Sil



Cheile Turzii





Related to this:

http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=2589.15
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