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Outerra Tech Demo download. Help with graphics driver issues

Author Topic: Clouds?  (Read 8476 times)

HiFlyer

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Clouds?
« on: May 07, 2013, 06:31:13 am »

Did a quick search regarding clouds and didn't find anything related to this particular engine, so...........

Posting it to find out if the Outerra Devs have ever looked at it.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 06:34:52 am by HiFlyer »
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cameni

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2013, 09:06:01 am »

Hi HiFlyer, yes we have looked at the existing libraries for cloud rendering, but there are several issues with them:
  • scale & detail range - mostly made & optimized for constrained ground level views or a limited altitude, the limitations start showing when you want to use it with a global engine
  • integration with the existing lighting - the physically based lighting in OT contributes a lot to the overall feeling of "naturalness", and it's also optimized within the pipeline (fog, smoke, water ...). It's hard to integrate it with a different lighting system in a consistent way.
  • these libraries seem to be more CPU/GPU intensive than necessary, which can be a problem - especially if the coverage would have to be stretched to cover a larger region visible in a global engine, resulting in even higher load.

Also, I can't say I entirely like the lighting shown in the video, doesn't feel natural to me for some reason.

Currently we are preparing a solution that works with our existing lighting system, works on the GPU and should result in seamless and consistent feeling.
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deathevor

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 10:58:10 am »

Just as an idea for cloud self-shadows (as well as for cloud grand shadows)

There was a short "PATHS OF HATE" that was presented at Siggraph  2011 (By Autodesk).
Basically one of the key moments there was a cloud creation:
http://youtu.be/LBovH7_um_s?t=17m5s

Even this is a render - some of it's techniques might have a chance in real-time rendering.

In few words:

1) Clouds are 3D Geometry - which in Outerra:

  • can have different LOD's
  • Can cast shadows to ground
  • Can be lit and have self -shadows

2) However the user sees the smoke (sprites or any way you did the smoke in Outerra) attached to 3D geometry.
And each "sprite" gets the illumination from the vertex colour (as in Video above) or getting it from geometry surface.
Of course with some adjustments to get Translucidity effect (also covered in video).

Here's a exact part of his fast explanation how it works:

« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 11:00:44 am by deathevor »
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Foxiol

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 11:28:18 am »

That video is really impressing (mostly the snow and storm stuff) but I prefer to see what Brano has in mind for us. He know what he is doing but It takes time. ;)

Call me crazy but when I woke up today (I was in my bed) I started to think in how Outerra may look with clouds (in motion) and biomass. Then imagine that with Oculus Rift...bye bye real world.
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angrypig

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 12:18:32 pm »

The movie is interesting too

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deathevor

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 12:39:08 pm »

Additionally, flying through clouds with this method - it's possible to generate sprites inside it using the colour in center of object (call it centre vertex) based on the distance to surface (so darker with bigger distance - taking in account the surface brightness).
Other sprites, that lying between centre vertex and surface is a gradient from centre colour to surface (with some blending between them)

Damn, hope this make sense. :)
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HiFlyer

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 03:30:26 pm »

The movie is interesting too



LOL!!! I posted that video at another site, and it didn't go well!
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foxfiles

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 09:56:08 am »

Currently we are preparing a solution that works with our existing lighting system, works on the GPU and should result in seamless and consistent feeling.

Can you disclose when we'll be able to see WIP shots on this, or any pre-release planned?
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KelvinNZ

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 01:05:20 am »

Hi HiFlyer, yes we have looked at the existing libraries for cloud rendering, but there are several issues with them:
  • scale & detail range - mostly made & optimized for constrained ground level views or a limited altitude, the limitations start showing when you want to use it with a global engine
  • integration with the existing lighting - the physically based lighting in OT contributes a lot to the overall feeling of "naturalness", and it's also optimized within the pipeline (fog, smoke, water ...). It's hard to integrate it with a different lighting system in a consistent way.
  • these libraries seem to be more CPU/GPU intensive than necessary, which can be a problem - especially if the coverage would have to be stretched to cover a larger region visible in a global engine, resulting in even higher load.

Also, I can't say I entirely like the lighting shown in the video, doesn't feel natural to me for some reason.

Currently we are preparing a solution that works with our existing lighting system, works on the GPU and should result in seamless and consistent feeling.

This forum needs a "like" button so I can like this post.

Brano and Angrypig are always extending the boundaries. Mind you, I suppose if you create something new, let's say, like a global rendering engine, and create some new technologies not implemented in other engines there will be some thought pointing to the fact that other new systems will need to be made to fit as other engine technologies would be unsuitable because of the much, much smaller scale. This is innovation at its best!!!
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PytonPago

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 01:45:33 am »


This forum needs a "like" button so I can like this post.


 Uvaga ! Zuckerberg is watching ! :D ... we need something more innovative than just likes - lets think, what would fit Outerra the best ?  (or just those smileys for replyes at the "Posted by" area witch would be working like user-click counts - that would have a nice variety of emotional description too).
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cameni

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 06:17:57 am »

Currently we are preparing a solution that works with our existing lighting system, works on the GPU and should result in seamless and consistent feeling.
Can you disclose when we'll be able to see WIP shots on this, or any pre-release planned?
I'm actually not sure if the first version is going to be up to standard here, as there are some relaxed requirements but tightened deadlines for its use in one of the special projects. If it turns out to be ok, we'll put it into Anteworld as well.
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foxfiles

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 07:20:09 am »

ok Brano, by special projects, you surely mean "custom" commercial applications? do you?
Is there any place where you present or discuss these potential professional applications ?
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cameni

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 07:59:18 am »

We can't reveal anything about those project by ourselves, it's completely up to the partners/licensees, when they wish so. Some of it should be unveiled by the end of the year though, if all goes well.
Otherwise we discuss potential usage via email, you know ;)
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foxfiles

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 08:55:37 am »

 :) sure I know
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ZeosPantera

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Re: Clouds?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 02:03:30 pm »

 ???     ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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