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Author Topic: AH-64 unflyable?  (Read 19334 times)

RobDeBob

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AH-64 unflyable?
« on: May 30, 2013, 02:21:57 am »

Whenever I apply the slightest bit of throttle the helicopter starts spinning uncontrollably and seems to have a mind of its own; I can fly fine in other games, e.g. ArmA, DCS Black Shark. What's up?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 02:26:19 am by RobDeBob »
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cameni

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 03:30:52 am »

All flight models are raw simulation models for JSBSim flight dynamics simulator, that try to be realistic and don't always come with any stabilizers to help the control. That means, for example, the Cessna is affected by the counterforce from the propeller, getting you into spin. Helicopters are more complex and harder to control without helpers.

To control them they necessarily have to be trimmed, i.e. applied counterforces that balance it so you can fly them without having to constantly apply the forces manually. Unfortunately, the balance changes with speed and altitude, and it has to be occasionally re-trimmed.

There will be also a simpler physics mode that basically turns off the simulated realistic forces from the propellers, allowing you to disregard them, but that needs to be tweaked into the existing simulation models.
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RobDeBob

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 06:02:15 am »

I understand that, but should lifting off from a completely level surface cause the helicopter to yaw massively 2m off the ground? I understand that I can use the pedals to apply anti-torque but even then it's a constant struggle.

The way the controls do not permit a mouse and only keyboard/gamepad/joystick input currently makes it very difficult (at least for me) to find a layout that allows me to quickly adjust counterforces and stay airborne, much less actually pilot. Too much finger fumbling.

I posted in the aircraft section that it would be nice to have a mouse input mode, which either locks head movement in place and has a button to activate it (ala ArmA), or uses the Oculus Rift for headtracking.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 09:38:22 am by RobDeBob »
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cameni

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 06:27:00 am »

I guess it could be somehow preset for lifting off the ground; I'm wondering if it's been set up for a certain speed or not preset at all.
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 09:08:01 am »

Flying fine in arma? Liar, its not possible at speeds above 50km/h.

You should try out the DCS UH1 Huey btw. There you will also notice your chopper instantly rotating to the left as soon as you apply power.
The reason it doesnt happen at arma is that there is no proper forcesimulation there.
The reason it doesnt happen at blackshark is the fact why ed did the blackshark back then in the first place. Its coaxialrotorsystem. They counter each others turningtendencies. The apache though had only his tailrotor to counter this movement, which is not sufficient all the time ;)
Also in the huey constant rudderinput has to be applied.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 09:12:02 am by Pyroman31FF »
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M7

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 09:26:15 am »

You definitly need pedals to fly this thing cause you have to use rudder quite a bit at takeoff and landing. Maybe some preset trim for the rudder would help.
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 09:28:55 am »

In the other thread he mentioned he is flying via, mouse, keyboard and ps3 controller. So i'm not surprised he is struggeling...
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ZeosPantera

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 09:39:39 am »

Those gunships can be tricky.. With a joystick and practice you can get "good" at it but it certainly isn't keyboard friendly.

Make sure you aren't just nailing the throttle at 100% as that is a surefire way to ruin a flight experience. Everything in moderation.
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M7

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 09:56:37 am »

I remember in the days of Janes Apache i was flying with a MS sidewinder ( through joystick port) that has a swivel stick. It worked pretty well back then. I'm positive that a similar joystick would work here if you dont want to invest in pedals.
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zaelu

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 01:19:50 pm »

I can fly DCS Black Shark pretty well, I don't have yet the Huey but I don't expect it to be a real "impossible" challenge. But the Apache in Outerra is a bit wrong. I like it how it unsettles when you change speed or collective but 95% it just tumbles ridiculously on the ground and remains upside down. I think is work in progress though and never meant to be a real simulation... at least not for now.
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ZeosPantera

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 01:54:03 pm »

Maybe the COM is off.. I never looked at the scripts for vehicles but it makes some sense.
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 02:00:22 pm »

Then everyone would suffer from this an this board would have a lot more complaints about it i guess.
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bugsblake

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 02:29:41 pm »

i have found this un flyable! starts spinning to the right the second i leave the ground! thought it was just me as im a flight simmer for planes! not really into choppers so didnt really bother me! not tried with my saitek x52 yet though!
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M7

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 02:52:29 pm »

It's my favorite aircraft to fly, probably because you cant fly it with keyboard only, unlike other planes. Zeos might be onto something with the com thing even though theres nothing looking like that in the .js .

Have to admit, It is quite tricky to take off, almost impossible to hover without pulling the stick on one side but that might just be me.

Looking forward to try the chinook, i know i've seen it somewhere in Cameni video.
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RobDeBob

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 08:28:22 pm »

Welp, guess I'm screwed then, since the only usable input I have for Anteworld is my keyboard. I have never flown with nor own a joystick, but I've logged countless hours of chopper flight in ArmA/DCS BS. All with a mouse/keyboard scheme. I would really appreciate the addition of mouse input. Trying to manage anti-torque, cyclic, collective, and throttle with a keyboard is a disaster.
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