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Author Topic: AH-64 unflyable?  (Read 18479 times)

Atrax

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 03:52:35 am »

It would be cool if choppers would fly similar as in Take On Helicopters, they have it right in th emiddle, it's not a full on sim but it's not arcade either. Just right in other words. :)

PytonPago

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 04:52:09 am »

It would be cool if choppers would fly similar as in Take On Helicopters, they have it right in th emiddle, it's not a full on sim but it's not arcade either. Just right in other words. :)

Yes, the basic sequences are a good thing to have in helis ...
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ZeosPantera

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2013, 01:46:22 pm »

I think two modes. One that is complete fake arcade and the other 100% as pure sim as you can get. You don't want people seeing the arcade mode and thinking OT isn't the homeworld for the hardest core sims on earth (maybe big virtual training wheels on all non-sim vehicles?). Want to fly around with ease there is a UFO mode for that. Otherwise prepare to destroy your desk fitting purpose build simulation hardware because flying a helicopter is hard, takes years of training and is hard.
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PytonPago

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 02:10:16 pm »

...  because flying a helicopter is hard, takes years of training and is hard.

 ... no need to say to someone, who wanted to fly mil. Mi-24s.  :D  .... so actually 3 modes then - a joystick/mouse total simplistic arcade type, the TonH 4-5 step start type and the full-Sim version ... lets make every single peace of hardware in OT that way (for ground units it would be something like WofT - Battlefield - SteelBeasts way combination) !  8)
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 03:43:11 pm »

Replace battlefield with red orchestra 2 ;)
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SpaceFlight

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 05:19:48 pm »

...  because flying a helicopter is hard, takes years of training and is hard.

 ... no need to say to someone, who wanted to fly mil. Mi-24s.  :D  .... so actually 3 modes then - a joystick/mouse total simplistic arcade type, the TonH 4-5 step start type and the full-Sim version ... lets make every single peace of hardware in OT that way (for ground units it would be something like WofT - Battlefield - SteelBeasts way combination) !  8)

I agree, also since you mentioned Battlefield, I would not mind the arcade type control of aircraft to be similar to Battlefield 3's helicopter and plane controls.

Also agree with Zeos, Outerra deserves no less than hardcore controls for its flying machines as an option.
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RobDeBob

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 08:33:23 pm »

I would personally prefer to have an intermediate option that resembles ArmA, BF3 is simply too arcadey and puts limitations on flight speed and manuevers. I'm comfortable with both but I don't think a BF3esque flight model would suit this game.
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KelvinNZ

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2013, 09:57:59 pm »

Ok, I have never flown a helicopter but have time in General Aviation aircraft and can tell you this;

If I tried to fly a plane using the keyboard I would inevitably crash (considering all forces acting as they should and even atmospheric variables but i'll leave the atmospherics out for now).

Yaw is going to be there from the start as it is caused by;

Torque reaction from engine
Spiraling slip stream
Gyroscopic action from the propeller, and;
Asymmetric loading

Assuming JSBSim modelling is accurate then by default you will need a variable rudder input which is a constant requirement in any aircraft in many situations. Simple controls would need to be set to disregard the yaw effect which is most likely the effect you are experiencing with the chopper. Yaw can also lead to a wing drop (among other factors) but can cause all sorts of problems to maintain straight and level flight at the bare minimum.

Perhaps even an auto-trim for those who don't wish to bother flying as per real world. Otherwise, the appropriate hardware is required, nothing less, if you wish to experience most/all the forces acting on the aircraft.

I can tell you it is much more challenging to experience these but acknowledge more frustrating for those who either don't understand the aerodynamic concepts or are more concerned with the scenery out the window rather than constant handling of the aircraft.

I can say that very little time is spent out the window when flying IRL as there is much to do and focus on to maintain proper handling of the aircraft. In a simulated environment there may be less interest in these areas but I personally enjoy the accuracy of flight dynamics over ease of use.

A setting just may strike a balance between those who just want to fly the aircraft and those who want to tackle the challenge of true flight.

Cheers,

K.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 10:00:30 pm by Kelvinr »
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PytonPago

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 02:41:44 am »

I would personally prefer to have an intermediate option that resembles ArmA, BF3 is simply too arcadey and puts limitations on flight speed and manuevers. I'm comfortable with both but I don't think a BF3esque flight model would suit this game.

No bad if both are there, just a option change away   ;D  ... actually, i dislike the BF helis too,nothing wrong with the collective being mouse, i just hate the predefined intensities (i know they wanted some variation in handling, but feels actually too extreme) But for OT, it would be a good simplistic way for the lazy-arcade community. It would be great, if there was some additional option to have the basic sensitivities or individual (simply all vehicles would have its own settings, as their weight and other parameters could result in bad handling on the basics).
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Atrax

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 06:25:36 am »

I would personally prefer to have an intermediate option that resembles ArmA, BF3 is simply too arcadey and puts limitations on flight speed and manuevers. I'm comfortable with both but I don't think a BF3esque flight model would suit this game.

The exact reason why I mentioned Take On Helicopters, cause it's not too arcadey and it's not full on sim, although it is more on sim side than arcade. :)
But ability to choose between arcade physics/controls, mid sim/arcade like Take On Helis, and full on sim like X-plane <which is the best aviation sim atm in my mind, would be rather awesome as it would be accessable to all types of players arcade ones and simmers, and would make Outerra team more money that they deserve, since more players would find something to their liking! :)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 07:30:41 am by Atrax »
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 11:40:33 am »

BF3 is simply too arcadey and puts limitations on flight speed and manuevers.

No difference to Arma then...
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 11:43:47 am »


But ability to choose between arcade physics/controls, mid sim/arcade like Take On Helis, and full on sim like X-plane <which is the best aviation sim atm in my mind, would be rather awesome as it would be accessable to all types of players arcade ones and simmers, and would make Outerra team more money that they deserve, since more players would find something to their liking! :)


That would not be the businees of the outerrateam but the simulatordev's. So it would be their money, outerra would only benefit from the licensefees.
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zaelu

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 11:48:19 am »

OK... I can confirm is flyable but the controls get messed up sometimes... or you don't really know what your inputs are.

For current version I could name as bugs the absence of sound effects for Apache (Mig29 and Cesna have sounds) and the fact that the simulation freezes after about 6 minutes (in Mig29 also)... Only the aircraft freezes in mid air.

Here is my successfully in game recorded flight (note the freeze at the end and the absence of sound effects like engines rotors etc):

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RobDeBob

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 05:49:26 am »

I should have titled this thread "AH-64 unflyable with default keyboard input." But thanks for the video.
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paradeigmas

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Re: AH-64 unflyable?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2013, 12:55:49 pm »

actually... If you disable the default "Hover Mode" by pushing H before flying the AH-64, it becomes quite flyable!
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