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Author Topic: Mil-Sim Anyone?  (Read 22169 times)

ZeosPantera

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 03:00:07 am »

The thing about the future of OT is that it wouldn't just be a mil-sim and pass or fail by that measure. It wouldn't even need to cost money for the mil-sim. All these guys have to do is make a base easy enough to mod for that anyone can make any mod and use it. So if crazy mil-sim people want to get together and make a free or for sale mil sim then let them. Everyone that wants to play is still going to need the base and therefore is going to pay the engines creators and possibly the mod creators. And there can be hundreds of mods from flight sim frontends to gardening simulators. Each free or pay but always on the outerra base.

So mil-sim anyone? Sure.
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Spudly

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2012, 10:37:37 pm »

Yeah, I love the idea behind that business model.  It's just asking for efficient modules.
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PytonPago

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2012, 06:40:51 am »

The thing about the future of OT is that it wouldn't just be a mil-sim and pass or fail by that measure. It wouldn't even need to cost money for the mil-sim. All these guys have to do is make a base easy enough to mod for that anyone can make any mod and use it. So if crazy mil-sim people want to get together and make a free or for sale mil sim then let them. Everyone that wants to play is still going to need the base and therefore is going to pay the engines creators and possibly the mod creators. And there can be hundreds of mods from flight sim frontends to gardening simulators. Each free or pay but always on the outerra base.

So mil-sim anyone? Sure.

...

Apologies for not responding, I've been in Afghanistan.

Back on track... I think a few people are over-thinking the prospect. I see a lot of the conversation reverting back to a global war/sim/RTS/whatever aspect. You're taking a niche market aspect and making it even more niche to a certain extent. If you're going to sell an idea it has to be profitable, and a title like that just isn't what it used to be. Plain and simple truth, its how it is now. I'm talking about a FPS/TPS simulation of modern armed conflict.

I.E...

Well ... thought about this just as an free to go on playing, and to help or join creating and pushing forward project. My own reasons to start such a thing is actually an mil-sim of an more than one simulation aspect game that would at the same time teach people something about the tech and the way they work in one place (that means in work as in a game). The hard core thing i meant is actually more of this kind : ... ewery single tech in the game in realistic as hell itself let it be done simulation and handling - gunners at howitzers and older artillery pieces to get theyr sights be defined manually as in real life - the same for tanks/aviation/ships ... it of course means to make a hell of a work on any piece giwen to the game, so the time frame and devotion and learning-manualls to it too ... of course modern ones hawe there the automatics, so there would be theyr handling system simulations done ...
Actuall function is the realism in handling/function/specs of the tech, where i would be glad if in training you could hawe an learning and tech-propagation vid. to hand (or at least the option to open the learning and specs PDF´s right in the game whyle trying it out).
The actuall battle would be as an knowledge tester and adrenalin pusher ... where the option of simplified (lets say arma  style) handling would be as an gamer side of the same mod. Making the needed sceneries for the hardcorrers to play on and with for some units (artillery/tanks/heli´s) and for some just an joyfull game (infantry and light wehicles) .... and hawing some infantry in it too (lets say a collone of thanks is entering an city - heawy teh has sim-handling and the infantry clears the perimeter off AT units witch takes some time - time needed for the simmer-tech to react in the battle and making them so more realistical in action and cooperation ...)

 ... there still will be the fact that cars will be operated trough stic (the 4x4 game way) ...


The result : You get to know the sighting of an BM-21 and try it out. Then in game you get to the firing possition, get out of the car, get to the sights, get the coordinates and make the sighting wheels be set right to hit the target ... salp of rocets on the target witch can be an fortification 8 - 12 km far away with infantry guys or tanks/BTR´s ... whyle the target was sent by one of the reconnaissance teams eather on foot or reacon-vehicles (by Radio-coordinates - GPS/GLONAS - IR lighting means acording to the support unit character).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 06:52:51 am by PytonPago »
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PytonPago

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2012, 03:29:02 pm »

Some beta vid´s has been released :
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PytonPago

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 03:21:34 am »

 Hi there all ! ... im still looking on this thing getting real ... actually, my time has some place for that and i hawe started with the BM-21 Grad. (currently on modelling, thinking of getting the actual -17M (trought external sighting device operated) and the new GPS/Glonass sighting based Tornado-G) ... still got a problem with the tornado-G version. Its systems are automated and has an LCD screen of similar functionality as modern fighter-jets. Could anyone help me forehand with how such internal systems work in simulators ?
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 04:02:40 am »

I totally agree with this, I'm sure it could be made something great. Any plans of work into this idea?

Still at school-problems, but I certainly would require non-less as all-USSR and Russian tech in this little world ... especially some S-300M´s simmulation and the whole BMD´s collection with Air-drop capability ( I wonna be dropped inside that thing from 2 Km height like the real VDV, and prepare the wehicle for fight after getting to earth ! :D  - that would be Project Reality for me.)

P.S.: Its ewen an interesting substitution for the canceled 2-year army training, and all artillery could be used with HL2-like tipps to teach basic balistic physics. (Would not be bad to make it an learn-to-play type game at realistic mode in avionics and other ... (of course, those tipps would be possible to disable)).

Would be cool but impossible. BF and Arma have these things but they don't simulate them. The Devs of real simulators struggle hard to get licenses, work around/ at the border of classified stuff (like radar, avionics and weaponbehaviour).
And don't forget the licenses of the Vehicles themselfes. You can't just build a close to reality Mig29 and try to sell it, without consulting the mikoyancompany for getting their approval.
The devs of the DCS UH1 struggled more than half a year with bell to get their ok.

S300 simulator is btw out there but you have no reference of what you actually do outside your container unless you use tacview for debriefing. You are inside the box, padlocking your eyes to the radarscreen all day long. It would be cool and needed but elsewhere. You don't need OT for this.
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PytonPago

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 06:57:33 am »


Would be cool but impossible. BF and Arma have these things but they don't simulate them. The Devs of real simulators struggle hard to get licenses, work around/ at the border of classified stuff (like radar, avionics and weaponbehaviour).
And don't forget the licenses of the Vehicles themselfes. You can't just build a close to reality Mig29 and try to sell it, without consulting the mikoyancompany for getting their approval.
The devs of the DCS UH1 struggled more than half a year with bell to get their ok.

S300 simulator is btw out there but you have no reference of what you actually do outside your container unless you use tacview for debriefing. You are inside the box, padlocking your eyes to the radarscreen all day long. It would be cool and needed but elsewhere. You don't need OT for this.

Yes, it doesnt end well do go hi-reality on classified stuff ... but actually (till BlackEagle) the older tech still in usage by some post-soviet states could be on real. There are not much still classified things about Vietnam war time tech. and as for more modern, approximations from already public files and use vids. could be done (simply just by the companies publicly made info, and some degree of classic and specific school physics could do the trick well enough)....

 ... there are some areas where the tactical info simply will not be public till 2080. But the main principles of the tech could be made if well enough thought off, and some would be even unnecessary to do (advanced internal systems simulation on the KA-50 from DCA arent there, as nobody would do them anyway (and some still secret too - but other things are made good as real they are)) ... so the modern fighter planes had at least some info about their tech given, making an bulky, but realistic enough fyz. handling would not be bad (and not worse physically correct as the battlefield genres :D :D  -  the new arma isnt bad, but for some reason they fetched for future tech in the last one and im not liking that, as they oversimplified some stuff out of my likings :/ (like that digital mortar) and still have an werry narrow band of tech. - so new ones are handled in theyr parenting ones) - also internal systems start-ups have at least some free hand,as the mechanical systems arent much of a secret (start up procedures for DDR time migs and such time flyers), and digital modern systems have some free hand for imagination, as there are multiple ways and even real firms doing that kind of stuff (so such systems, check-ups and other stuff can be made just out of the reality box, whyle having in mind what it possibly works like and how its handled).
And some areas doesnt have much tech-ups anyway - like artillery: out of digital target acquisition trough 3-rd parties and internal ballistic computing systems there isnt much new stuff. (and laser or else-way corrected projectiles could just use a higher hit-probability rate than conventional when the advanced targeting systems are in work).

At least, i would like to have it freeware based, made and grow by a community for a multiple reasons - it would have all the time to be made as best it can be, people learn a lot of such systems and their tech. while working or finally playing around with it, legal means are somewhat narrower over an sell-product   ....   yes, it would require an normative way of doing all the stuff to work together - thoe nothing impossible actually if the community gets some brains together.

... still OT has a way to go till physics are usable for such things and many things lack their working area at this time. So the best way is to make as much as possible tech models at hi-detail for manual handling (i want a lot of guns and tanks and artillery pieces and ... just all the existing ones at present :D ) and the functionalizing stuff will be handled after OT gets his fangs out properly (so we have time to argue and debate about that kind of details to be implemented) :D ...
My dream is to one day have the entire Groznyj city and surrounding important villages where heavy fights were, made in OT from the times of the first and second Chechen war and make those battlefield as real they were as possible.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 07:14:56 am by PytonPago »
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 07:46:49 am »

Are you from germany?

I also would like to see a fully fledged military simulator on the verge of classification for OT because this engine is capable of doing this. But i don't know what will be in 10 years, how the market changes and what other companies will offer us then. It would approximately take between 5 to 10 years to deliver a simulation with a hand full of aircrafts at DCS A10c level, built from scratch with just the outerraengine. By that time DCS will have a much wider variety of planes, a sophisticated engine in terms of aerial warfare, BMS will have more then F16's of the level their F16 is right now (i'm speaking of hornets or mirages). RoF and BoS will have been developed to fill the desires for WW1 and WW2 Aviation. Not to mention that they surely will work in the shadows of en koreanaera simulator, like they did while creating Cliffs of Dover. (CloD also will be far more progressed by that time, if the original Team doesn't sue down team fusion).

So what i want to tell here is that if a flightsim will get created right now on OT it will be released in an well established environment and therefore most likely will get problems of beeing accepted by the customers at first.

But! That all would not count if you do some parallelworld/sci fi/ steampunkstuff.
As long as the Objects behave like they look like to do, it's fine. There wouldn't be the typical FM debates.

Ah and while wer'e at it, just cloning arma would be a sufficiant buyingreason if they just add proper rudders for planes and choppers. Since OFP this wad never achieved there and thats a showstopper.
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PytonPago

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2013, 03:13:00 pm »

Well, we dont have the need to compete with DCS, (they have too some support from the mil.-avia. companies) Just make our own version at our own speed - OTs good side at this would be a full-spectrum warfare posability ... try thinking that the Combined Arms would by at a Steal Beast level and with infantry capabilities of Arma III added to DCS. Where heat seeking and laser-pointed/guided arms would be simply intractable (just the same base way of work for all types) ... I still wait for rigid axle suspension and wont to make my grad unit work, when school test-season ends for me. Then the fun part starts, and no more mouse clicking for craters. Salvo fire !  ;D    .... i thought too about the fine animation possibilities of Arma for the infantry - would be nice implement such movements for characters in general for OT in the future, and make gun-pointing as an addition to it (a way to simply and fast add animations to OT for characters and have a great database of them getting created would be nice - then just enable some of them for certain characters individually and give key-bindings at will). But where the really bad things come for are Interactive rocket systems (AA, cruise, - simply all that would be possible to intercept white S-400/Patriot systems, or just parachute AT-systems for Multiple rocket systems and special launchers - there has to be some thought and discussion to come). Still, time as hell for that stuff, as there is a lot to do for Cameni and co on the engine itself.  ... doe there is some model-difficulty there, i would like them very detailed for full-clic use (all, even cars if possible) so there is the need or 4 LODs (hi-detail + 3 lesser for far away) + destroyed all with theyr normal and thermal  textures ... where, i do not have much idea, how destruction modelling of the DCS planes level should be made. (will have look that up - would be nice to hawe trucks damaged mildly by 12,7 caliber, other for mine-destruction and other for RPGs/missiles) :-\ Making such models will take time too, but, my first play started to make me a lot of fun, and i learn much. (Just gone trough the entire function mechanism of all grad suited rockets and chemistry involved - and wow what i found out about news from FR planned for the next gen Taifun/Tornado-G systems) ... i would be werry happy if i could make some way to get informational captions to all such things running for each vehicle/weapon and get the physics explained some nice graphical way in OT. It would be easier for some folks to go those trough in game than to look up the manual all the time (i hated that when i learned to operate the Eagle-Dynamics Kamov two years ago) and propagate physics and other sciences in the process a little.  --- If that would all go well, there will be no need to die-hard compete with other genres, it would be something new and interesting among them in the future (and something i personally feel a lack for in them).


P.S.: Not German - Slovak. Doe i speak and understand Deutsch sehr gut.  :)


As for the story - an MGS way of Outer Heaven world of proxy wars and dynamic battlefields would be nice. Doe, the Cold-War period politics and scenes were actually of the same effect, only trough ideologies. (Kojima would probably kill me for that) :)

« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 03:34:33 pm by PytonPago »
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Pyroman31FF

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2013, 03:26:54 pm »

U said DDR and most foreign speakers would not use this term as it was known as GDR ;)

If a company with big manpower starts to build such a game it could be done in a reasonable time. But it probably would be quite hard to get funded. Thats why we have to face call of dutylike games for many years now. Arma and Ro stem the tide a bit and there are at least 2 other titles worked on at the moment which will contribute to the realismsector for infantery battles :)
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Arcani

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2013, 04:19:47 pm »

Hey guys,
So, I've read the thread and I think there are four problems: the setting, the business plan, the staff and the items we need.

This post is posing the questions, my next post will be my suggestions for the above.
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Arcani

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Re: Mil-Sim Anyone?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2013, 04:57:17 pm »

Hey guys,
So, I've read the thread and I think there are four problems: the setting, the business plan, the staff and the items we need.

This post is posing the questions, my next post will be my suggestions for the above.

Setting
I'm going to go for a sci-fi Mil-sim.
I have my own Sci-fi setting that's a mix between Halo, Warhammer 40,000 and a lot of my ideas. I'm still working on it and hope to have it done during this summer break when I'm out of school.

Business Plan
Selling:
We'd have to get a license from the developers and pay them royalties. We'd also have to have an advertising campaign, set wages for workers, all that.
Modding:
No license, free.

Items
These are the things we'd need for the game.
Story:
Are we going to script animation and characters into a campaign, or are we going to let it be free roam multiplayer?
Characters (modeled, textured, rigged, animated):
Human- Male, female. Multiple human factions.
Aliens- At least three species, male and female.
Vehicles:
Various, at least for every species one set. For Human factions and different alien factions there might be multiple variations for each one.
Also, what types, aerial and land is a given, but what about naval and spacial vehicles? Hover vehicles instead of wheeled or tread land vehicles?
Missions:
Most missions are single player, but players can go onto real-time Multiplayer servers that have a constantly changing environments where people can jump in (Planet Side 2 style) or host their own set up missions that are not constant and are run by a host "DM or GM" (Arma 3 style for some missions).
Terrain:
Multiple planets, just the one. To capture the timeline of the universe I think we need multiple planets.
AI:
There should be AI to aid the players and as enemies.
Commands:
Players should be able to give AI commands like in Arma, e.g. "Go there." "Cover fire." "Stay alert."
Editor:
People should be allowed to create their own mission parameters, on servers there should be moderators that can do active mission changes and DM the game, both for the constant world and the set missions.

Staff
Modelers
Riggers
Textures
Scripters
Animators
Technical Directors
Writers
Project Managers
Business Managers
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