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Outerra Tech Demo download. Help with graphics driver issues

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Honken

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« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2011, 12:14:27 pm »

Quote from: ZeosPantera
I still think making fishing rods might be a bit of a silly trade to learn when you have the entire solar system accurate to ~1cm to play with. But who am I to judge! I certainly wouldn't mind the hunting aspect. Especially if the wildlife are realistic.

Then I have one thing to say to you sir.

The more realistic stuff you can do in the game, the better the game will be.
So if you have a problem with Crafting Fishing Rods and don't like it, maybe others like it instead.
The more stuff you actually can do the more fun you will have, because if you get tired of "Fishing" then you can do something else. Also you can craft Fishing Rods and sell them to others.

Don't you see what I'm trying to say with my posts? You always denies them so I don't think you understand my English so good. And I can understand that.

// Honken

P.S What I'm trying to say is that THE more stuff you can do in the game, the more you going to play it without getting tired of it. Because there is so much to do!

You understand now?
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cameni

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« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2011, 12:34:36 pm »

Honken, you should first read what this thread is about. It's about a game that will be first done on this engine. Note that we have limited resources and our goal is to demonstrate the engine, showing the best of it while not burning out on the amount of stuff the game would require.

While it's ok to say that you want a game with everything in it, and that Rockstar/Bethesda/2K should buy the engine and make the game of your dreams, it's not entirely ok to say it in thread that specifically talks about the game we might be doing. If you have read the thread thoroughly, you'd have seen that in the context of this thread your postings are .. misplaced, to say the best.

That's probably why Zeos is reacting this way - it's indeed silly to make fishing rods in the game we are talking about here. Please stick to the topic of discussion here, or make a new topic in the "Ideas/Suggestions" forum if you wish.
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Honken

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« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2011, 12:41:04 pm »

Sorry, did not see that he typed that. And I like fishing, that's why.

Did not know you are doing a game :O Awesome! Now I got even happier.

Think it's going to be really cool =)  Good luck!
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krunkskimo

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« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2011, 02:55:34 pm »

Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote from: krunkskimo
maybe in a pre-apocolyptic 1940s-1960s for the sake of simplified low tech wars and vehicle controls.

Only issue with pre-apocalyptic anything is there will need to be buildings and roads and a complete infrastructure that would need to BE THERE. That is why Cameni is aiming the game and engine as a whole at a millennium or two after the apocalypse. That way its rolling hills and the occasional ancient roadway where man had cut the mountains.


i only choose 50s peroid because warfare would be more tactial then technical and realistic controls would be easier to simulate.

a simple auto generated infrastucture run by simple AI would be good enough place holder to be conqured, built up, or destroyed as players populate the world with their own creations

 :)

i guess more of a EVE +  sim + Risk (in real time) meets outtera
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C. Shawn Smith

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« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2011, 05:40:57 pm »

Current "plan" (subject to change) from what Cameni and Angrypig are looking for in a "game" is approximately 2k to 5k years from the fall of humanity.  This would show off the "virgin" Earth without human influence, except in a few ruins and strategically placed easter eggs.

So the tech would by necessity be "slightly" futuristic, although lower tech stuff (adequately dilapidated) would be very possible.

If no one's watched it yet, try to find the History channel's "Life After People" or whatever it's called.  Very eye-opening experience considering how little time is necessary to erase what we've done.  http://www.history.com/shows/life-after-people

(And just as an aside, this series inspired a possible scifi storyline for me ... considering it was approximately 65 million years since the fall of the dinosaurs.  After you watch the series, imagine how many civilizations might have risen and fallen during that time.)

*Edited for correctness*
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- Yes, I'm still around ... just been busy with other projects ;)

Fabrix7777

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« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2011, 12:46:33 am »

How about a game like Arma2 but bigger and better of course, with civs too in the same multi. Like one of the many mods of arma 2 like city life but playing at the same time in the same map.
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ZeosPantera

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« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2011, 04:33:21 am »

Quote from: Fabrix7777
How about a game like Arma2 but bigger and better of course, with civs too in the same multi. Like one of the many mods of arma 2 like city life but playing at the same time in the same map.

Welcome and Yes. Cameni and Angry pig just have to get the ATi OpenGL support worked out and a demo/game release will be ready shortly after. If mod support is as great as they are claiming a good Arma2 mod team could probably just code the entire combat environment and it would be superior to arma immediately.
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Spudly

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« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2011, 01:05:06 am »

I really like your idea for the initial game.   I was thinking about how it could best be done and I have some ideas...


I think that trade would probably fuel the majority of exploration and activity.  The entire world would start off with a hidden resource map under it being procedurally generated based on some geology/geography influences.  Everything will require resources in some way.

The game would be mainly focused on empire building from the ground up.  The world would start off with a few major cities throughout the world, which would serve as optional starting locations.  These cities would be procedurally generated down to the building but with given random features for each(residence/commercial).  

Commercial buildings could be bought or built, but depending on function, could be more or less successful.  These businesses would have certain attributes which could make them more or less competitive.  Most businesses would perform basic functions like converting one or materials to another material.  Businesses, depending on capacity, would require a certain number of workers, thus requiring overhead costs and promoting residential development.

Level 1: The Beginning(optional)
The player will initially enter the game at one of these starting cities, with a given amount of money(starting at a car dealership/train depot/airport).  Initially, the objective of the game will be to make money.  You can do this by solving the various resource needs of the residents of the beginning city.  All the trade characteristics of the city will be presented to you in one panel.  Choosing a single resource will show all the places in town buying/selling that resource.  For steel you might see Steel Factory[Sell: 42/unit]  and Vehicle Factory[Buy: 55/unit].  From this you could see that by driving some steel across town, you could make $13/unit profit(- gas cost).    Likewise, from the pilot's perspective, there might be mini missions that require you to crop dust or fly mail to a nearby city.  

Throughout the game, the trade secrets of each city would become available to you as you explored them.  After a certain amount of money has been made, you would be upgraded to Level 2, where additional features would be available.

Level 2: Empire building
Level 2 would allow players to build an empire.  An empire is loosely defined as a set of assets(businesses and/or vehicles) and vehicle routes.  Routes could include:
-Purchasing material at one end, travel using a vehicle(plane/truck/train), selling material at another
    -Can set up vertically integrated businesses with routes simply being the action of relocating material(in this case, will cost you money instead of gain you money)
-Requirement of actually running the route yourself for the maiden voyage(have to fly it yourself first)
    -In this case, you might be able to record route as a vector path to recreate as "AI" or just for route run time
-Routes could be run by the player or turned into hired jobs, which would be flown by either AI(vector recorded or otherwise) or by other players(contents could be hidden) for the same cost(or scaled based on quantity).
    -A vehicle will be required for the mission for AI completion, but not for player completion
-These routes may be visually displayed to other players if capability exists
-The Routes would be traveled as regularly as possible(in real time) based on conditions provided(vehicle availability/profit conditions)

Prices will usually be a function of supply/demand, and thus as supply approaches requirement/holding capacity, selling prices will decrease.  For this reason, routes will be conditional based on profit/unit.  Vehicles could even have a route queue which priorities profit/hr.  This could essentially turn into a sort of airline tycoon type trader game in this respect.

The other main part of Empire building is about the specific businesses.  There will be businesses focused on raw material gathering(think mines,farms, logging companies, fisheries, oil rigs), refining companies(like sawmills, steel factory, oil refinery), manufacturing companies(car plant, airplane plant, construction company) and even storage/distribution centers.  Each will have their respective inputs/outputs with the exception of mines/logging companies.  

These raw material companies would be placed based on the results of prospecting(literally an action your character should be able to do anywhere).  This will give results of the land and you can interpret it how you wish.  Obviously, trees are a non-hidden resource.  A logging company set in open plains will likely not have good yields.

If a player was to randomly build a logging company out in the middle of nowhere, depending on size(like level 1, 2, 3 etc), it would require say 50 employees.  These 50 employees would set up residence near the business in the form of small houses.  Because of those employees, maybe a gas station would pop up and a small grocery store.  this would increase the resident number by a little more.  If you chose to add a sawmill and upgrade the size of the logging company, the population would increase again, prompting more houses and maybe a small school.  Over time your congregation would become a town and depending on how much you contributed yourself, you might be able to name it/control it(though going into that might be too in depth).  These towns would be procedurally generated off the initial placement of companies.

The Economy
All of this is driven by the economy.  Much of the price will be determined by the distance the resource is away, the difficulty(weight/space requirements) to obtain and the trade infrastructure currently in place.  Planes will be more expensive because of fuel and weight/space requirements.  Trains may be cheap on flat ground, but tracks might be too expensive in mountainous terrain.  Track royalties/space requirements may also apply for trains.  Vehicles and construction materials will likely be the main consumption of player resources, but things like food and transportation will be required by the cities as well.  



Ultimately, your "Empire" could be anything from a transport company, to a vertically integrated plane manufacturing company to a General Empire dabbling in all aspects.  I don't know if this is exactly how all the features would go, but it seems to follow your general idea of what you want in a game and it seems like it would be fun.  Also, for the most part, I suspect this technology would work fine off of a large database.

Anyhow, sorry for the extremely long, scattered idea.  Any thoughts?
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Jak_o_Shadows

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« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2011, 02:55:46 am »

I sorta like the idea of that, but i'm more in favour of a barter system. That way cameni and angrypig wont' be able to screw up the currency via adding rewards for certain things (and thus causing massive inflation) (Happened once on a minecraft server i was on. They made skeletons worth 8 currency. Inflation went through the roof).

I really want to farm and sell water, as well as have a zeppelin. Also i plan on claiming some sort of major canal/passageway to exact tariffs from.
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cameni

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« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2011, 01:24:22 pm »

Well, initially a barter system might work too, but I think it will not be flexible enough. We are thinking about basing the trade value on energy credits. Basically, the value of anything should be computed as the amount of energy that has gone into producing it - both the direct energy and indirect one from the energy gone into resources needed as inputs. Atop of it goes any premium the player deems appropriate, encompassing virtual economic tools like the resource sparsity and such.

As for the game, we'd like to keep it in sync with the background story. The story tells about a colonization ship, whose basic goal is to spread humanity across the stars to raise the probability of long-term survival of human race (from near zero on old Earth). On the planets it discovers the goal still holds, albeit in a smaller scale: colony pod modules are deployed to distant parts of the planet, to lower the risk of humanity being obliterated by a single local catastrophe.
 Never mind that the ship returns to Earth where the story takes place. Earth is changed and likely dangerous, so the plan is still valid. You'll be playing for colonists who land on a selected place and capture it for themselves, and start to exploit the land and the surrounding ones.

It's likely that every colony will have a different surplus that it can use for trade, and it should be encouraged to establish trade routes for that reason, or just to connect with others. Even if the inter-colony trade is slowly evolving initially, it could be so that the Mothership will be buying out the materials, in exchange for some services or energy. Hence it would establish some trading centers, probably near the old metropolitan areas - here it comes close to Spudly's idea.

Large cities of the past should be in the hands of thiwatokya though, so these probably won't be available, to make the game more interesting later.

Note - this is about the (slightly futuristic) game idea, but there will be also a sandbox mode where people could build what they want. I reckon there will be some groups willing to create a different setting, like the rail sim guys recreating a world of their rails and such.
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Spudly

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« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2011, 02:33:29 am »

It's seems like the game is pretty much designed, I like it!  I'm hoping we'll see the ISA Outerra like the object here.  

I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.  Maybe for example, models would be made of materials which could be roughly calculated based on the model size.  
Someone could import a helicopter model and it might require resources:
hull(aluminum or carbon fiber or something)
    -this would be the imported model
    -this could designate the cargo carrying capability as well
flight panel(control interface which was maybe manufactured)
    -this might be required to have an in game control interface with it
engine
    -the engines would be the standardization part, different sizes/properties
    -Many different types to unlock(or whatever) such as light helicopter(500hp), heavy helicopter, propellor small/large
          -here you could have as many engines as you wanted/needed for a vehicle
    -for ground vehicles, tires could be attached as motored(then (engine/# of tires)horse power per tire) or just free moving
          -could be entire drive trains for suspension or otherwise
seat
    -seats could be designated, could be used for transport missions.
Likewise you could have entire buildings built of wood/brick/steel.

It might be too complex to do the engine thing, but would definitely be a fun feature to be able to place your engines/rotors onto theoretically any model.  This might also somewhat standardize what you see flying around to being somewhat realistic(might need prototype mode).  Tech would also improve based on the resources/designs people had available.  Nobody is going to have a huge battleship cube flying around.  They could, theoretically make something like an ISA Outerra, it would just take a huge amount of resources(and huge cargo!) and like 8 extra large anti gravity thruster engines.

Anyhow, any current plans for tying resources to models or standardizing vehicles?

Also a couple more questions...
Is everyone going to get a colony module and basically their own small supply of frozen people?

How complex will trade routes be?  Simple as in auto-managed with simple income/day or something.  Or complex as in requiring a vehicle to do it, you determine goods and AI is shown flying the route using the vehicle designated?
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cameni

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« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2011, 03:32:51 am »

Quote from: Spudly
I'm hoping we'll see the ISA Outerra like the object here
Yes, should be there. We have an idea how it should look, we just need an artist to design the thing, down to the detail of the pods that players will launch in towards the planet.

Quote
I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.
 
I think the most important thing would be to keep some standards of quality, realism for selected setting and also the legal side of things. Eventually the contributed models can be of arbitrary design, so that all sides in the game can stick to their cultural preferences or something, as long as they pass a criterion on Q/R/L. Ultimately the decision should be ours, but a better way would be probably to have an independent board that votes on it.

Another aspect is the balance. While every helicopter model could have the same parameters to avoid unbalancing, it would not be very entertaining. There should be a relatively simple formula that allows to assign better parameters to a model, but for an non-proportional cost, so that one can't grow the power of a machine indefinitely.
 
Quote
Anyhow, any current plans for tying resources to models or standardizing vehicles?
Everything will require appropriate resources, some special alloys may be first available only from the Mothership, until players build the needed industry and/or upgrade it.

Quote
Is everyone going to get a colony module and basically their own small supply of frozen people?
That's the idea. And several square km of land to capture, with more becoming available as the colony grows.

Quote
How complex will trade routes be?  Simple as in auto-managed with simple income/day or something.  Or complex as in requiring a vehicle to do it, you determine goods and AI is shown flying the route using the vehicle designated?
There definitely should be vehicles visibly coming and going, and the player could take the part in it too, or switch between the drivers. Of course, it will revert to a plain statistics when no one's looking :)
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Flavien

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« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2011, 12:51:47 pm »

Quote from: cameni
Quote from: Spudly
I think it would be cool to sort of standardize the player made contributions.
 
I think the most important thing would be to keep some standards of quality, realism for selected setting and also the legal side of things. Eventually the contributed models can be of arbitrary design, so that all sides in the game can stick to their cultural preferences or something, as long as they pass a criterion on Q/R/L. Ultimately the decision should be ours, but a better way would be probably to have an independent board that votes on it.

Another aspect is the balance. While every helicopter model could have the same parameters to avoid unbalancing, it would not be very entertaining. There should be a relatively simple formula that allows to assign better parameters to a model, but for an non-proportional cost, so that one can't grow the power of a machine indefinitely.
 

No idea how to do that, but I know that X-Plane do the feeling of an aircraft completely by the real characteristics when it was created. i.e. a knife can't fly while it can in FSX which use an aircraft.cfg file which define how it would fly.

Quote from: Wikip├ędia
X-Plane differentiates itself by implementing an aerodynamic model known as blade element theory. Traditionally, flight simulators try to emulate the real-world performance of an aircraft by using lookup tables to find known aerodynamic forces such as lift or drag, which vary with flight condition.

Don't know if you are already doing it and if it would be applicable  in this case, but when I saw you spoke about flying characteristics , I couldn't help to share my little knowledge. :)

(Sorry for eventual bad English, I'm French)
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French guy, sorry for some language mistake ^^

cameni

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« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2011, 01:40:38 pm »

Quote from: Flavien
X-Plane differentiates itself by implementing an aerodynamic model known as blade element theory. Traditionally, flight simulators try to emulate the real-world performance of an aircraft by using lookup tables to find known aerodynamic forces such as lift or drag, which vary with flight condition.

We have no intent to concern ourselves with the depths of flight dynamics simulation - Outerra is primarily a world rendering engine and we will happily use either a table driven FDM library or a blade element theory based library in it. Or rather, we'll let developers use whatever they want.
We don't need to participate in holy wars, nor we are competent enough to judge the approaches - there are always bad and good sides in everything :)

For the moment we are using JSBSim FDM library, because it was available and it's suitable for integration into the engine.
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Tottel

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« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2011, 05:20:22 pm »

As far as I can tell, Outerra has a fantastic flight-system already.

That trailer with the camera as a player on the ground and a helicopter flying by, is something I will remember for the rest of my days.
It was so incredibly awesome.

Back on topic, looking forward to that game. :)
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