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[RaikoRaufoss]

Darn, Zeos has put into words what I've been thinking of all along.  Here's my bit of advice: Combat should be a part of this game, but like Zeos said, it shouldn't be like CoD.  Imagine Danger Close Pro combined with a huge cannon on an orbital ship.

[C. Shawn Smith]

The ship in orbit should have a renewable energy source (fusion, for instance) to keep it running ... I imagine a ship that advanced would have the best original tech from the time period it was built, but since that energy can't easily provide for the planet's inhabitants and world building, the "peons" (for lack of a better word) would need to develop something that would do the same for cheap.  After all, in a couple of centuries, fossil fuels will be a thing of the past considering how much we're using them up.

I like Angrypig's idea of the algae+sun thing.  It's something that settlers could grow in vast farms and fields, adding an interesting layer to the game.  As skills progress, perhaps there would be other levels of energy/fuel generators.  To put it more crudely, a player with only 1 point in "Energy Production" can only farm algae and create fuel in that manner.  But continue to put points into that skill, other technologies become available, eventually leading up to fusion reactors (although that doesn't solve the problem for the gas a Cessna needs, unless you wanted to put a miniature fusion reactor on one ... and I don't think I'm gutsy enough to try that

[ZeosPantera]

The ship in orbit should have a renewable energy source (fusion, for instance) to keep it running ...

That would make it a fixed "haven" that all players could rely on. BUT what if the station came back to earth in a last ditch effort to harvest and refine the "amalgamated tritium soy sauce" that keeps the stations clean fusion power going. If the power on the station runs low perhaps the systems onboard that keep the communications and global positioning data in-check go down and the surface folk have a hard time.

since that energy can't easily provide for the planet's inhabitants and world building, the "peons" (for lack of a better word) would need to develop something that would do the same for cheap.  After all, in a couple of centuries, fossil fuels will be a thing of the past considering how much we're using them up.

As much as we want to stay away from gas I'd still like to see it even if only for the purposes of running old machinery.. like this ... http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1970-1979/1970-Oldsmobile-442-W30-Orange-fa-web-1280x960.jpg

I like Angrypig's idea of the algae+sun thing.  It's something that settlers could grow in vast farms and fields, adding an interesting layer to the game.  As skills progress, perhaps there would be other levels of energy/fuel generators.  To put it more crudely, a player with only 1 point in "Energy Production" can only farm algae and create fuel in that manner.  But continue to put points into that skill, other technologies become available, eventually leading up to fusion reactors (although that doesn't solve the problem for the gas a Cessna needs, unless you wanted to put a miniature fusion reactor on one ... and I don't think I'm gutsy enough to try that

Skill seems like a cheapo and bad alternative to money. In all likelihood you couldn't build a fusion reactor without alot of money.. So replacing key words sounds the same.. In all likelihood you couldn't build a fusion reactor without alot of skill.

what we need is... something else. Maybe we can borrow from my favorite RTS. In warzone2100 (www.wz2100.net) you start on a blank map and search the land for oil (replace oil with bunnies or algea if you like.) now once you have oil derricks you build power generators that convert the oil being pumped into "energy". That energy can then be used to run Research facilities that research all types of structures and weaponry and power upgrades. It also powers the factories (which only need power to make tanks as apparently energy to matter conversion has been perfected in the future)

So what if using this system we allow for raw resources to be gathered (coal, tree sap, algae) then use that to power a basic generator. That created "energy" is stored in the equivalent of a huge batteries (think farm silo) Using that gathered energy to power vehicles and produce.. stuff. And a research system that enables players to acquire artifacts (through whatever means) to be researched and processed to extract new technology. Not sure why newer then on hand tech stuff would be abandoned on earth. But certainly things like solar panels could also be hooked up to gather energy all be it on a slower pace then the burning of bunnies and such.

This way doing the hard work getting energy gets you more tech which gets you more energy which you can trade for vehicles and other tech people have already processed. That's pretty much how it works.

[cameni]

It is similar to our older idea, where each colony pod contains a few essential modules, that can be modeled as black boxes:

• separator - separates useful materials/elements from raw ores or biomass. Can process practically anything brought in, but the yield depends on the quality of the ores/biomass. Processing speed corresponds to designed volume per hour capacity. This can also produce food. A universal nutritious jelly,
  
• replicator - using design plans and consuming materials and energy it is capable of manufacturing any vehicle or parts needed for extension of other modules
  
• generator - consumes fuel that was output by the separator, producing energy
  

There should be also some repositories for storing materials/fuel/energy.

This design is very simple, and allows for upgrades of multiple module attributes (processing capacity, energy consumption ...) while not requiring extensive modeling of everything with the same detail as the environment has got.

Additional design plans could come in form of chips, initially a limited number of vehicles and machines can be later extended by obtaining these from the mothership or other players.

It would also enable Zeos's oil drilling - oil deposits with limited volume for kickstarting the economy before moving on to a more sustainable model, why not.

[u3z05en]

Hi all,

Didn't know where to put this, or if someone has mentioned it before, so it landed here.

I happened across this article which I thought would be an excellent addition to any tech tree advancement to enable interstellar travel. I can just picture building the 4 machines mentioned in this article on the outskirts of orbit.

http://io9.com/5391989/a-black-hole-engine-that-could-power-spaceships

[C. Shawn Smith]

The only problem with this in terms of a game system is that you're still limited by the Speed of Light.  If you're playing a game with such a drive, it would take you three real years (or perhaps half that, depending on the in-game time scale) to reach just the nearest star.  Not to mention Einstein's General Relativity and the Lorentz Transformations ... I've done a little preliminary calculations about this, and to give you an idea of what the reality would be, consider this:

Let us state for the sake of argument that you are travelling at 40% the speed of light toward Betelgeuse, which is approximately 500 light years away from Earth (there is a wide margin of error here, so excuse the number).  At 40% speed of light, 1250 years pass aboard your ship, and 1310 years pass back on Earth (60 year difference).  My calculations are based on an old spreadsheet that went through some changes, so the exact numbers may be wrong ... I'll have to redo the formulas to insure accuracy.  (In one of my calculation cells, it's telling me 505 years ship time, 3580 years Earth time, which seems a bit more accurate ... regardless of which one is correct, they both break the ability to play the game reasonably).  I'm currently revising the spreadsheet in order to realistically portray the Relativity equations.  The spreadsheet is eventually intended to be a resource for science fiction authors to accurately use and portray subluminal speeds and Relativistic transformations to insure accuracy.

For any game using extrasolar planets (especially at the already realistic scales Outerra uses), you have to go beyond what is actually possible in order to make it fun.  Not to mention that the game will initially focus solely on Earth ... the other planet stuff will only come, if ever, when the planetary building tools are built (which is the part I'm waiting most eagerly for

*Edit* just revisited the original spreadsheet that was unaltered.  Here are the corrected Relativity equations/transformations:

Betelgeuse   500LY distance    714.29 years ship time   5063.44 years Earth time
(Based on 99% speed of light velocity)

*Edit2* For clarity .. if it's still confusing, I can reply in a separate thread or through forum email.  Relativity is a special interest of mine, for a variety of reasons .

[u3z05en]

Hmm, indeed. Well I guess we gotta stick to earth for a bit then. Or use the old jumpgate idea or something similar...

[C. Shawn Smith]

Yeah, Einstein and the Laws of Physics really screwed with the universe  

[ZeosPantera]

Yeah, Einstein and the Laws of Physics really screwed with the universe  

This sounds like a job for Wormholes.

[C. Shawn Smith]

HAHAHA ... what was his name?  Scorpius?  Jeez, that takes me back!

[C. Shawn Smith]

And I just realized every single one of those calculations (except for the second one, which is based on 99% SoL -- the 505 year ship time calculation) are totally inaccurate, so ignore them.  I really screwed up my formulas trying to improve upon it

Relativity gives me headaches.  But it's fascinating.

http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/relacalc.htm  Not sure how accurate this website is, but I presume it is since the calculation is generally straight-forward.

[ZeosPantera]

OK.. Some more suggestions.. Starting with what I believe will REALLY get peoples attention if implemented properly.

JETPACKS..

Moving around "small" distances(<200 Yards) can be easily accomplished with a brisk walk. And Short journeys (5-10 miles) I would probably do in a ground vehicle of some sort. The 10-150 mile stuff is Apache territory. And further then that is Cessna or jumpjet. But that 200 yard to 5 mile journey has no easy, compact and fun vehicle. Cameni had mentioned something like a Golf Cart or Segway but I think this is where a jetpack should enter the fray.

I think it could be controlled pretty well via mouse and keyboard OR preferably joystick and analog throttle controls. Limiting its range with fuel/energy capacity would prevent it from being used instead of other transportation modes. I do not think there should be a weight or speed penalty for wearing it while walking. Should you need to get up atop a ridge or just want a better look around step out of the tatra and zoom up a few hundred feet for a peek. I imagine the best way to implement and control it would be XXX Seconds of use times throttle position and XXX seconds to recharge whether done fully automatically via solar or from an external source perhaps other vehicles can throw power into it. So as long as you are near your Apache you can land that and fly 4-5 miles with the jetpack forced to land back at it for a 5 minute quick-charge. Should you decide to just fly strait off toward the horizon you would soon understand how long a 7 mile walk actually takes.

All that would be left is an airship filled with Nazis and this game would be good to go!



EDIT... I request the ability to fire a weapon while using the jetpack.. That is all.

[WarlockSyno]

You know what. Every game should use jetpacks. For absolutely no reason.

[Lucas]

You know what. Every game should use jetpacks. For absolutely no reason.

indeed

[CJay]

Along the point of combat and our little colonys springing up, we will inevitbly i imagine need some sort of law and order, now i'm not talking about some sort of totalitarian dictatorship as were all in this together, if the idea of we've got 18 months to prepare to fend off those brain sucking aliens.

Anyway, we could do this along the style of mad max without the seriously fast cars and shooting everyone in the face Because i'd rather not see it devolve into Call of Duty here or for that matter GTA. But if were going to have other players wandering around/ thwtku (things that want to kill you) then i'm sure we'd all benefit from some sort of Police or Rangers to defend everyone.

We wouldn't have to be huge at the start if it's just we'll say 30-50 colonists landing back on Earth, so maybe 10 of them could volunteer to be Police or whatever name sounds appropirate, you can't exactly run up arrest someone and say:
'Your under arrest for X, you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence when questioned something that you later rely on in court, anything that you say can given in evidence against you'

It's just an idea of course, and i'm not saying that these people should be granted any higher privileges over any other player, but i feel that whilst were all out to colonise, you'd love to know that we've got your back should something nasty appear and try to murder you.


Just my suggestion (Guess thats what happens when you join the Police, you get a law enforcement mind!)
I'm open to critiscm/suggestions