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[Beolex]

Do you see Outerra having advanced streetcar physics like LFS?



The tire model is broken into segments and each one is assigned a different function/task. It would be nice to see Outerra with streecar physics like this so it can be a vehicle simulator as well.

[cameni]

Sure, we'd like to include a more advanced tire model (and engine models etc) for it to be usable for racing. We'd also like to provide an interface so that developers could implement their own physics for tires (among other things), for I guess Racer people will come and say something ugly about LFS physics and vice versa

We'll also have to think how to define the interfaces so that physics developers don't have to deal with specifics of how the world geometry is being managed. This would be also a problem with, say, integrating RoR physics - most efficient handling would be to compute it on GPU, accessing the generated terrain data and computing forces for nodes in parallel. Effectively, the physics would be best implemented partly as a GPU shader or using OpenCL, but in turn this has to play nicely with the engine that itself utilizes GPU extensively.

[Vicious713]

Something that's also made me ponder, if you integrate some serious tire physics into Outerra, theres so much offroading potential with the engine that shouldn't there be some kind of dirt/mud simulation too? I mean if it can dynamic create 3 cm thick bits of road with a vector tool on the fly, or the ocean can have dynamic wakes traveling behind boats, should tires be able to dig into mud and inevitably get stuck?

[cameni]

Yes, that will be possible too. In fact I plan to test it in near future, but first I need to optimize the generator so that it can handle dynamic modification slightly better.

[ZeosPantera]

I believe your physics collision mesh is ~6 inches. It would probably need to be much smaller to satisfy road racing purposes especially if your talking tire models. Off roading could probably survive with the larger mesh.

My question is could the mesh be dynamically tightened with the distance of a tire? Having a larger mesh where no-one is driving and smaller where you are going to be within a radius of the tire it will soon interact with. Could it procedurally generate fast enough?

[cameni]

Actually the engine generates detail with finer resolution (up to ~1 inch) to get better lighting. Meshes for rendering are created from these data but they have reduced resolution; that doesn't matter much as the lighting compensates for it easily. So if you can see that fine resolution, it means that it was generated. Of course it depends on the speed, for normal use the faster you go the lower detail is generated, but it's adjustable.

 Another factor is whether the data for tire simulation are going to be carried over to CPU, which would impose a lag of 2-3 frames. Meaning, it would need even more sophisticated prediction algorithm determining what to generate and fetch in advance.

[ZeosPantera]

Sure, we'd like to include a more advanced tire model and engine models etc

If you want to stand out to us race sim people. Trying to match this as closely as possible will bring much street cred.



Richard burns rally although very dated is still believed in many circles to be the best driving simulator ever made. A large part of that was due to the engine model detailed above.

Adding temperature and altitude variables as well as other weather effects such as humidity would only improve an already stellar design framework.

[cameni]

Hmm, this reminds me, do you know a diesel engine (mathematical) model that could be used for the truck? Currently it uses just a simple curve that gives out the force at given speed (gas is still on/off only). Even though in the game we could "invent" a futuristic engine, I feel we should have a better model there.

We could also start designing the interface that would allow custom modeling of tire and engine behavior. What kinds of variables need to be dragged out and so.

[ZeosPantera]

Hmm, this reminds me, do you know a diesel engine (mathematical) model that could be used for the truck?

I am not sure if this will help but it looks complicated and mathematical. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle I will search more when my diesel obsessed friend comes online.

We could also start designing the interface that would allow custom modeling of tire and engine behavior. What kinds of variables need to be dragged out and so.

Love may be too strong a word. But I feel something towards you.

[Vicious713]

So i found this video (part 3 of 4 in the series) About the making of a Bugatti Veyron.



Somewhere in the middle of it (about 4:30) has a little featurrette of Michelin's Tire Torture Machine in france, where they rig a tire to this robotic arm and violently shove it against this pad, and examine it's limits as it morphs and deforms. Fun Fact, the Veyron tires are meant to reach 270 mph, so it's fun seeing, and hearing this machine run the tires Sideways

I enjoyed the little segment because you can hear how the screeching changing pitch depending on how sideways the tire becomes.

[ZeosPantera]

Just thought I would bump this thread with a nice video I don't expect to replicate in anything other then Outerra.

[youtube]OVN-OkKUocM[/youtube]

[George]

Yes, that will be possible too. In fact I plan to test it in near future, but first I need to optimize the generator so that it can handle dynamic modification slightly better.

I jizzed.

[ZeosPantera]

That reminds me. rF2 just recently posted a demo of their new tire model. Nothing technical but seeing how it works makes me hope for similar/better in outerra

[video][/video]