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[ProGamer]

What are the possibilities for using global weather data to produce dynamic weather data in real time, and/or base don't he location and time of year?

What are the possibilities for using data to create man made structures based on real world locations?

What are the possibilities for using real world data for roads and runways based on real world locations all around the globe?

Will Outerra use real world ocean currents?

Will Outerra use real world satellite data based on the real world?

Will Orbital physics be realistic?

Will the moon realistically effect world tides based on real world tidal data?

Will the vegetation and geology be made more accurate based on the real world locations?

Will drainage basins be accurate based on the real world?

[John514]

It is entirely possible that Outerra will use global real time weather - depends on the developers.

Currently I don`t think that there is enough data to recreate exact replicas of cities, but procedurally generated buildings can be created and placed based on building dencity maps.

Roads will be integrated using OpenStreetMap data, so yeas, global coverag in roads will be done. I don`t know about runways.

Ocean currents are  very specific, so it depends on what game are you playing in the Engine.

Outerra already uses low-resolution hightmaps, refined by fractial algorithms. There is no pint in actually using satellite photography tho, since the images would b huge in terms of disk space and would produce worse visuals.

Orbital physics should be realistic, since the base game will have space vehicles.

Tides could be made, but applying actual force from the Moon and compute the result would be too taxfull for the system. An oscillation parameter can adjust the water level instead.

Vegetation will be specific to the biome in the region, so yes, the plants will corespond more or less to the location.

Drainage basins/rivers will be ventually added.

[ProGamer]

It is entirely possible that Outerra will use global real time weather - depends on the developers.

Currently I don`t think that there is enough data to recreate exact replicas of cities, but procedurally generated buildings can be created and placed based on building dencity maps.

Roads will be integrated using OpenStreetMap data, so yeas, global coverag in roads will be done. I don`t know about runways.

Ocean currents are  very specific, so it depends on what game are you playing in the Engine.

Outerra already uses low-resolution hightmaps, refined by fractial algorithms. There is no pint in actually using satellite photography tho, since the images would b huge in terms of disk space and would produce worse visuals.

Orbital physics should be realistic, since the base game will have space vehicles.

Tides could be made, but applying actual force from the Moon and compute the result would be too taxfull for the system. An oscillation parameter can adjust the water level instead.

Vegetation will be specific to the biome in the region, so yes, the plants will corespond more or less to the location.

Drainage basins/rivers will be ventually added.

Thank you for the reply, but ocean currents are not really specific they are by products of the Coriolis effect.  I think you may have meant all the worlds ocean currents no matter the size, but I was thinking in terms of major ocean currents first http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ocean_surface_currents.jpg and then thinking about all the smaller currents.

Has anything been said about vehicle damage models?

Will the human body be simulated to the extent needed for accurate "damage" models of the human body?

Will real world data be used to recreate railways based on real world locations?

Will it be possible to mine/dig? Will the heat from the earths core affect those who dig to deep? Can tunnels be flooded?

Will any procedural aspects of earth be replaced with accurate real world data when it becomes available?

[PytonPago]

Has anything been said about vehicle damage models?

Will the human body be simulated to the extent needed for accurate "damage" models of the human body?

Will real world data be used to recreate railways based on real world locations?

... well, railroads should be handled just like highways ... global vector data, only it will be a separate layer and place railroads (not yet here of course)

As for damage level - its entirely on modelers to do different damage levels and some damage constrains (just think of it like the old MAFIA game - where all damaged parts were actually different meshes of the model, just switching visibility and spawning some decal-parts when something should fall off) --- doe, there was some talk about Rigs n Rods way of flexible and damageable objects-cars. Their now on another engine, but maybe, when OT is rife for that ..

For characters - that will be a little questionable thing. If you mean loosing limbs and such, its more of a Mafia way too (plus some texture overlay of course). Dead body dynamics are usually just taking rig-bones as physics driven objects whyte mass and rotation constrains - just like chained marbles thrown in the air. If you thought about some really hi-tech version - I haven't seen even a try of doing something like voxel or volumetric dynamic characters, so that tissue and bone damage is simulated - not to mention in games (also, not sure, if it would need an different rig-bone approach for animations). Would be really nice to have something like ballistic-pudding structure, where gun-projectiles would actually do real tissue damage and its energy and caliber would be setting the outcome effects on it (or objects specs. and state props.). Thats still a much of a dream of automotive companies o not to do so much real-world crash-tests and mil/medical ones for simulating tissue damage by weapons or chirurgical procedures and trainers (especially for mechanic arm instrumental chirurgy sims). Have to say, something like that would be quite the breakthrough but still some 15 + years away, maybe ... so yes, its on the creators of games n objects/characters to set the detail and simulation level. Not sure if Cameni and Angry planning going to go so far for the AntenWorld engine propagating game.

[John514]

That ^

[2eyed]

Many things could be done, but for modeling the earth and space down to the last stone and blade of grass cameni needs to become a god who lives forever.
I don't think it's the right engine for a FPS. Take Unreal or Frostbite or Cryengine if you want to go that way.

[ProGamer]

Many things could be done, but for modeling the earth and space down to the last stone and blade of grass cameni needs to become a god who lives forever.
I don't think it's the right engine for a FPS. Take Unreal or Frostbite or Cryengine if you want to go that way.

FPS? If anything I would love for a military simulator to be made with Outerra, not an FPS. I thought this area of the forums were for discussion regarding the engine. I was asking about parts of the engine. I never said right down to each and every small rock and plant.

I do not get why you have to sarcastically think that things are perfect and there is no need for any real world phenomenon like the Coriolis and Eötvös effect which cause things like the weather, ocean currents and things of that nature.

For the replacing the procedural data, I was referring to whether or not the engine can easily adapt when new higher quality and more in depth data is gathered and made accessible for projects like this.

For manmade structures, like it or not, earth data is filled with things like the Panama Canal and other manmade rivers, lakes, structures that effect the environment. It would look odd for a river from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean.

Things like railways, roads and runways would allow for people to experience some of the most unique and dangerous runways like courchevel airport, or dangerous railways, or roads. Imagine seeing some place on TV and then loading up a game/sim with Outerra and traversing that exact terrain they did with the same weather conditions, temperature and hazards.

[DeanosBeano]

Outerra  is only and SDK for other Developers to uitlise
 Your questions are very obsucre and to be honest they are hard to put into a context other than will outerra model 1:1 scale and physics planet earth and will i then be able to interact with those things online or Lan ?

 Your from the Arma arena or Vbs i think  ?  well nothing will ever touch that  for interaction with scale and Networked  not this side of 2020 at least . in some way i can see them maybe utilise outerra with APi to co-ordinate  like they do already Steel beast and VBS maybe  for very big simulation one day .
 
 I think outeraa will make a flight sim Base possibly with 18 months byt someone  if devs here alllow it and then within 3- 5 years some rudimentary  FPS online or some Noteworthy FPS beyond that .  before that i think a lot more tears to be shed  having seen what i have seen so far .

 My 2 cents

 

[ProGamer]

Outerra  is only and SDK for other Developers to uitlise
 Your questions are very obsucre and to be honest they are hard to put into a context other than will outerra model 1:1 scale and physics planet earth and will i then be able to interact with those things online or Lan ?

 Your from the Arma arena or Vbs i think  ?  well nothing will ever touch that  for interaction with scale and Networked  not this side of 2020 at least . in some way i can see them maybe utilise outerra with APi to co-ordinate  like they do already Steel beast and VBS maybe  for very big simulation one day .
 
 I think outeraa will make a flight sim Base possibly with 18 months byt someone  if devs here alllow it and then within 3- 5 years some rudimentary  FPS online or some Noteworthy FPS beyond that .  before that i think a lot more tears to be shed  having seen what i have seen so far .

 My 2 cents

My questions are regarding what Outerra will simulate. Does Outerra do different things for LAN and online?

I do partially come from the Arma and VBS community. Modders have accomplished more realistic features than developers have, so to say that only BIsim could make a military simulator is misleading. Anything is possible.

   I am interested in Outerra because it could one day allow for the creation of the ultimate military simulator for gamers and sim plays with Naval sim players, Aircraft sim players, tank sim players, infantry sim players, space sim players controlling satellites, realistic ICBMs, ect...
     With things like survival while getting lost at sea or getting shot down in the middle of nowhere and having to survive until you are rescued. And having to deal with whatever the weather throws at you while players act out civilian life durring war time and peace time. Players could try to start something like the UN, countries would invade and be invaded. Basically the ultimate sim every player dreams of.

[PytonPago]

Well, its all about, how it is going to be done ... was discussed before, that a broader spectrum mil-sim would possibly only on limited areas. Also, its hard to put hi-end simulators of different kinds (Nawy/Air/Ground) in one, but could be "projected" in one another whyle being separate sims on the same engine. (I think some civil version of such be first anyway)

True, it will take time, till someone lays hands on it, due to many things (also their investment and knowledge of their own engines/systems) - more likely is to get some government on such work for their military digital training grounds. But also true that people of will and time can do a lot too if motivated. ( so well see how the overall forum/modder dynamics develop further )

Deanos´s time-frame seems legit there, but still would give a year plus on both dates (just to account for unforeseen things).

[ProGamer]

From what I understand, the undersea environment has not been worked on yet?
Will the ocean terrain be realistic and based off the real world?

Is it possible to walk and drive around on moving, ships, submarines, vehicles and aircraft were you would normally be able to in real life? And float inside objects like spacecraft?

[PytonPago]

From what I understand, the undersea environment has not been worked on yet?
Will the ocean terrain be realistic and based off the real world?

Is it possible to walk and drive around on moving, ships, submarines, vehicles and aircraft were you would normally be able to in real life? And float inside objects like spacecraft?

Well, the ocean-floor is from real data - just the resolution is questionable, as the global scale data has not so much detail as certain limited-area scans of them. - will be some time till NASA or some marine-research group makes hi-detail global ocean floor maps there. Cameni said doe, that maybe they could handle making Higher-resolution areas in the data to blend well whyte the rest, so for special things, this could do just as well.

Didnt now try to put my own collision mesh to my model and try the effects on things (have to finis them till i get to other LODs and stuff) - but now objects(and characters, as they are in the same category) dont react to those collision meshes - of course, will be done eventually. But, maybe, if two vehicles had a custom collision mesh it would work for them right now - have to test doe.

[ProGamer]

What should I do with terrain problem areas like these? http://imgur.com/a/edn5r#0

I also see no evidence of undersea terrain based off real world data in game.

And has anything been said regarding tides and currents? The tides are especially needed.

And has anything been said regarding ocean storms and dangerous sailing weather? And rogue wave chances?

And when better detailed data does become available, can we swap out the old data, remove the procedural generation that is no longer needed and replace it with new higher detailed data?

[PytonPago]

What should I do with terrain problem areas like these? http://imgur.com/a/edn5r#0

I also see no evidence of undersea terrain based off real world data in game.

And has anything been said regarding tides and currents? The tides are especially needed.

And has anything been said regarding ocean storms and dangerous sailing weather? And rogue wave chances?

And when better detailed data does become available, can we swap out the old data, remove the procedural generation that is no longer needed and replace it with new higher detailed data?

... is not much of a problem actually (there are things much worse at places) - may get better, when better resolution global data is there to use,

 ... not sure what looks the raw data ocean-floor like in the set they used from the - but im pretty sure is bad too (no chance to see ravines when there are the height-points too far from each other in the data) and it will take some time, til such global data is done. 

I think they will have some ocean-water dynamics there, still, they need to do weather stuff for that to make the dependance set and it probably wont be as deep of a simulation - but im sure the engine would have the room n tools for tweaking that once its finished. 

Data is taken as a set of height-points (elevation-data) in square areas based on satellite scans (but may be from other sources too,like UAVs) that will have to be fit to OT by Cameni, so its pretty much abut, what NASA and other have available on net. Will be probably only some urban areas right now. Also - there no such thing as removing procedural gen. here - procedurally generated is all the terrain white-in the smallest height-data square (so if you had 5m resolution, then the 5m square has its edges at right height, but all the terrain inside it has to be generated) - you just have to get better resolution there (2m - 1m - .5m etc --- ) but they need to find a way of tweaking the generation to not have artifacts where the less resolution data meets the higher and such. Think they said something about being able to download higher resolution data for certain areas, doe, im not sure how much places and witch are available in great resolution just so on the net for them to use and how importing your own in a certain format will look like. ... also look at:
 http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=598.msg7848#msg7848

http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=974.msg11342#msg11342

http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=1105.msg20578#msg20578

[cameni]

Coastlines: http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=724.0

Undersea terrain is based off 1km global bathymetry data. If there were finer data locally, they would be included.

Tides: http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=2164.msg23329#msg23329

And when better detailed data does become available, can we swap out the old data, remove the procedural generation that is no longer needed and replace it with new higher detailed data?

Depends on who "we" are. A game developer could do that, although it's not just a simple swapping, you need to set up the procedural parameters for the new data. I hope you don't mean removing the procedural generation altogether, a (global) real world dataset would be unusably huge. However, it's possible to combine high detail for selected locations with procedural stuff for the rest.

Lots of your questions are actually for a third-party developer using the engine, one that would have an ultimate goal of creating a replica of Earth, as that seems to be what you are aiming at. We can do into great depths with the realism, but as everything it has its price, it will require a lot of work and funding, especially since you seem to want to replace most of the procedural (cheap and fast) with authored content. Something, I believe, will come from the military circles sooner/rather than from the game business.