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Outerra Tech Demo download. Help with graphics driver issues

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Author Topic: Alaska scenery  (Read 110079 times)

ZeosPantera

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 11:55:43 am »

You leave CRT's out of this!

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Varldsligist

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 02:01:04 pm »

You leave CRT's out of this!
Srsly? :D That is ancient! Cool 2d cat though.
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Jagerbomber

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2014, 02:02:57 pm »

That L for Lube?
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2eyed

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2014, 02:07:33 pm »

Grass is the single most taxing thing there is, and stretching it further than default won't help it either.
Well I must admit, grass rendering is the frame rate killer No 1. FR drops from around
90( no grass) below 60fps with grass(90m). And without grass I get smooth frames.
In stereoscopic mode I see no way to get constantly 75+ fps with my system even with grass disabled.

Btw: the Watch Dogs engine renders grass for quite a distance without visible pop up. May be some GameWorks(nvidia) stuff is applied here.
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ZeosPantera

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2014, 03:41:27 pm »

Lotion actually. I have another with A for Alcohol. Can't think of a third use for those bottles.

The CRT is a GDM-Fw900 which was the best CRT ever made. $2500 when new, I got three of them used over the last few years for under $300 each. 1920x1200@85Hz and PIN sharp into the corners. Magical colors and no lag. I can't use anything else.
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HiFlyer

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2014, 09:16:21 pm »

Grass is the single most taxing thing there is, and stretching it further than default won't help it either.
Well I must admit, grass rendering is the frame rate killer No 1. FR drops from around
90( no grass) below 60fps with grass(90m). And without grass I get smooth frames.
In stereoscopic mode I see no way to get constantly 75+ fps with my system even with grass disabled.

Btw: the Watch Dogs engine renders grass for quite a distance without visible pop up. May be some GameWorks(nvidia) stuff is applied here.

On my system, the easiest way to drop the framerate very noticeably is Anti-aliasing. Maybe after that might be shadows. Grass is not even a concern. However, I remember back in the day, the original Outerra had a very nice ground texture (daisy's) that while flat was more than acceptable, and might be a good fallback mode for those with weaker systems.

Plus, I have never liked the rocks scattered everywhere and would love to get rid of them!

If you do turn the grass off, be sure to leave the terrain normal maps on or horrible things will happen!  :o ;D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 05:06:34 pm by HiFlyer »
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HiFlyer

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2014, 05:10:52 pm »

I've been wandering the Talkeetna area and doing little housekeeping tasks like grounding anything that's floating slightly and making sure road-joins are as seamless as I can get them. I'm also toying with creating my own area, and seeing how the developers did the default airports and etc is informative as well.

The big issue is intersecting runways, which seem to always create huge height differences that I can't seem to fix. Still working on it!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 05:53:48 pm by HiFlyer »
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Acetone

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2014, 05:38:51 pm »

I've been wandering the Talkeetna area and doing little housekeeping tasks like grounding anything that's floating slightly and making sure road-joins are as seamless as I can get them. I'm also toying with creating my own area and seeing how the developers did the default airports and etc things is informative as well.

The big issue is intersecting runways, which seem to always create huge height differences that I can't seem to fix. Still working on it!

Yeah, objects placed from top-map view are sometimes a bit higher than the terrain. I have a lot of clean-up to do with that.

Runways are complex since we don't have a tool to flatten perfectly the terrain. Since they don't follow the terrain profile, making them intersect is really hard... I have tried to do Kodiak (Alaska) but with the terrain curve in this place and the three runways crossing, it was an impossible nightmare  ;D

Picture for reference:



I'm happy to see someone potentially doing an other area, the more we have, the better it will be!  :)
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HiFlyer

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2014, 12:29:17 pm »

I've been wandering the Talkeetna area and doing little housekeeping tasks like grounding anything that's floating slightly and making sure road-joins are as seamless as I can get them. I'm also toying with creating my own area and seeing how the developers did the default airports and etc things is informative as well.

The big issue is intersecting runways, which seem to always create huge height differences that I can't seem to fix. Still working on it!

Yeah, objects placed from top-map view are sometimes a bit higher than the terrain. I have a lot of clean-up to do with that.

Runways are complex since we don't have a tool to flatten perfectly the terrain. Since they don't follow the terrain profile, making them intersect is really hard... I have tried to do Kodiak (Alaska) but with the terrain curve in this place and the three runways crossing, it was an impossible nightmare  ;D

Picture for reference:



I'm happy to see someone potentially doing an other area, the more we have, the better it will be!  :)

Wow.

Still trying, but Outerra absolutely desperately needs a road merge tool, as well as some sort of roadway rotational placement tool.
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HiFlyer

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2014, 06:42:44 am »

Hey Acetone, don't forget the truck and trailer pack from NewS. Those would probably look very good out on the roads, etc.

Too bad you can't drive them!
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Acetone

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2014, 09:52:44 am »

Hey Acetone, don't forget the truck and trailer pack from NewS. Those would probably look very good out on the roads, etc.

Too bad you can't drive them!
Yes, forgot about this one! I will add them as soon as I'm back to work on the scenes. I have a lot of parkings lots to fill  ;D

About the road tools :
Personnaly, I consider what we have for the moment to be enough, considering the current state of the engine. I have started to create these scenes mostly because I was under the impression that, without human mades landmarks, it was really hard to get a real perspective of distances in Outerra.
Making a scenery based on the real roads and buildings pattern was really hard using only the minimap version of OSM or google map, so the sole addition of the full map overlay is in my opinion one of the best achievement the devs have made on the scenery creation side. It's only when you use this tool that you trully realize that Outerra have, even with it's current limited range of features, an absolute level of precision when it comes to the recreation of an accurate earth environnement, even by using some procedural refinements.

I agree with you, we are quite limited by the current capabilities of these tools. But hell, it's probably better since we will have to tweak or remake the scenes when Cameni is gonna release the advanced roads tools or when the OSM importer will be unveilled  ;D

I have noticed that the most important thing for scene construction (with the current state of the tools) is more about the terrain itself rather than everything else.
  • No direct coastal scenes (roads near water often end-up under water)
  • Avoiding urbanised areas in steep terrain (dealing with a dense network of roads vector on a slope terrain is a nightmare)
  • If an airport is required, always select a scenery only if the said airport surface is perfectly flat in Outerra
  • Some places have a more natural terrain color than others. It can have a huge impact on your perception of the final result :)
  • Trees. Do you get a good repartition by default or by toying with the parameters? Outerra handle really well forest surfaces, less when terrain have trees, but in a more sparse/lower density.

On a side note, I realised I have an other scenery that I have never shared. It will require additionnal work but will probably be cool for Levi/Bomber and their new project since it's a place really popular among gliders pilots :) I will improve it and release it when I'm back on my desktop computer. Here is a screenshot of the place. No roads or buildings are visible and it's from an old build of Outerra but you can make an idea of what the terrain look like.



Same mountain, different POV (second one is a real picture, of course)
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HiFlyer

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2014, 10:53:58 am »

Not surprisingly, I suspect the devs had more precise tools even a long time ago when making their demo airports. Looking at some of the road joins makes me jealous.

I tried to do some "corrections" on Ted Stevens and it was a symphony of frustration. Correcting the road joins on one section of the runway would mysteriously mess up a road far away at the other end. Running back and forth trying to "fix" them was futile.

If I do an airport (and maybe some surroundings) it will have to be a "fantasy" airport that takes into account the current state of the tools.
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cameni

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2014, 02:44:20 pm »

Not surprisingly, I suspect the devs had more precise tools even a long time ago when making their demo airports. Looking at some of the road joins makes me jealous.

Nope. Though I think some stuff broke there over time. What you wrote - correcting a runway would mess up another road - I noticed the other day that the preservation of order in which the road segments are applied doesn't seem to work sometimes. The ordering matters, because the blending of transitional areas obviously produces different results when swapped. So if you edit a runway, and the operation moves it to the end of the queue, suddenly it gets a lower priority than the roads that were supposedly added later.

Lukla, on the other hand, was indeed done by a script. Mainly because the tools didn't allow to move it around when we needed to adjust it, and I was able to better create it parametrically. That sure means the back-end is more powerful than tools.

We are getting a new UI coder who's going to completely overhaul the editor tools. Suggestions collected here.
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Acetone

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2014, 03:44:21 pm »

The ordering matters, because the blending of transitional areas obviously produces different results when swapped. So if you edit a runway, and the operation moves it to the end of the queue, suddenly it gets a lower priority than the roads that were supposedly added later.

From my own experience, transitionnal areas and most specificly conflicts betweens transitionnal areas are the first source of bugs/bad results when using the terrain tool. I will add some suggestions in the editor tool thread, completly forgotten about that one  :)
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PytonPago

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Re: Alaska scenes
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2014, 03:18:32 am »


We are getting a new UI coder who's going to completely overhaul the editor tools. Suggestions collected here.

great news !
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