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Author Topic: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)  (Read 64743 times)

Levi

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2014, 07:33:36 am »

That's a great start Levi, the animation looks to be run off the AoA of the wing at present, we can change that to a property specific to the force generated by the individual section of the wing.. This would be as realistic as we could get I reckon. I'm working on the data needed for the Ilyushin Il-14 flight model at present, I could drop off that and work for a week on the wingflex code needed in the flight model... it's your call I'm easy whichever way.
Yes, the animations are basically based on AoA, but let's make it as realistic as we can.
Nice to hear you're working on Ilyushin Il-14's flight model, but first let's finish this little bird :)

Now let's talk animation..

You notice before the wing was broken up into sections that the smoothing was a uniformly long run, but now that the wings broken up the smoothing only goes as far as the end of the sections, that's because the 'end points' used here are fixed in space with no smoothing applied whereas the 'intermediate points' have smoothing applied... So we need to make the 'end points' of each section 'intermediate points'
Are you referring to this?

You can clearly see the seam left after the wing was broken up into sections:


For that, I have a simple solution. I call it 'Custom Normals', and it's done by editing vertex normals (I'm using Autodesk 3ds Max 2015):


...now the smoothing looks just like before splitting, and you will always still keeping the sections as separate objects:


Now it's going to look odd in blender but here's the trick...

For the section of the wing you're dealing with include the sections to the right and left of it and weld up the points as before... now the points on the section we're dealing with are 'intermediate points' not 'end points'....  but there's a problem the section is too long and won't work when flexing.... and that's because the outer sections are VISIBLE..... and we don't want that. So using the smallest possible alpha texture apply this to these sections...

When rendered ingame these outer section wont appear but the section of wing we do see has 'intermediate points' and not end points and thus smoothing is still applied...

Apply this trick to all sections and the wing should look as before it was broken up, nice and uniformly smoothed....

Have fun..  :)

Simon
I'm not sure if I completely understood this trick. Some illustrations/examples would really help. I'm really curious how your trick would work :)

But as I explained before, even if the wings are broken up, the smoothing will remain as before using that technique of Custom Normals.

I made the outer sections visible just to not be able to see through the wings when the sections are separating while flexing.


Now, for better results, and to not easily notice the seam because of the outer sections, I use the same technique of Custom Normals.

This is how it looks like before the technique is applied to the outer section(the wing is flexed down only from the first section):


And after that:


Now let's see how it works in-game (only the first section have been modified).

This picture shows the opposite wing where no Custom Normals on outer section are present:


And now the wing where Custom Normals on outer section are present:


It seem to work pretty well, but now the problem are the shadows... When we change the glider's/sun's position/orientation, at certain angle the outer section will receive shadows, and the seam will be more visible (it will be very useful if we could exclude certain materials/objects from receiving shadows).


Note that in all the screens, the wings are a bit over-flexed towards down, especially the first section . In "normal" circumstances it's harder to notice the splits between the sections.

All of this would not have been necessary if we had armature based deformation...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 07:51:37 am by Levi »
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bomber

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2014, 01:48:54 pm »

Well your results are pretty good I'd say :)




To explain what I was getting at.... look at this image...

Now the sections to the right and left of this section.... duplicate it with this section but use an alpha texture on these sections so as they're invisible ingame...

Now endcaps, I know you've added them so as to stop seeing through the wing when flexing.. but by using them there's a possibility that the render engine is 'nailing' those points firmly in place and preventing smoothing (to a degree)

What might work is a short 5 degree 'knuckle' and 'socket' arrangement in this area...
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Levi

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2014, 03:40:36 am »

Well your results are pretty good I'd say :)



To explain what I was getting at.... look at this image...

Now the sections to the right and left of this section.... duplicate it with this section but use an alpha texture on these sections so as they're invisible ingame...

Now endcaps, I know you've added them so as to stop seeing through the wing when flexing.. but by using them there's a possibility that the render engine is 'nailing' those points firmly in place and preventing smoothing (to a degree)

What might work is a short 5 degree 'knuckle' and 'socket' arrangement in this area...
I don't really get it why duplicate the sections and make them invisible in-game...
With or without end caps, the smoothing will always remain the same. Unless the animation is armature based deformation, the smoothing won't dynamically change in-game, no matter what you do with the objects...

However, I'll do it my way and send the plane to you via PM to see the results in real-time :)
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Levi

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2014, 06:56:40 am »

Ok, I just found a more efficient way to hide the seams/gaps between sections :) No need for outer caps on each anymore, therefore the shadows won't cause problems now.

Are the wings flexing too much? I'm not sure.


Simon, I think I can already release it with this basic WngFlex until you work on the code needed in the flight model. What do you think?

I'll send it to you via PM now to check it out ;)
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bomber

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2014, 08:02:56 am »

Yeah go for it.... I have loads of web space if you've ever any need of it.
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Levi

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2014, 08:30:44 am »

Yeah go for it.... I have loads of web space if you've ever any need of it.
Great, I'll try to release it today, if time allows me.

Thanks! it's nice to know :) But right now I have a lot of storage space on Mediafire.com, Google Drive and Mega.co.nz. :P
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bomber

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2014, 01:47:06 pm »

Just flown the glider, flys real well....  shame it's not 100% fdm, waiting on the developers to get to me on the problem...

But still will get people thinking of the possibilities...

If you fancy a real challenge, need to think about damage animation, texture swaps and overlays to each individual section of the wing, fuselage and cockpit glass...
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Levi

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Re: [WIP] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2014, 05:23:33 am »

Download
(August 27, 2014)
Released on August 27, 2014

Features:
  • Basic Wing Flex (upgrade pending).
  • Two different camera positions (using  Mixture).
  • Animated ailerons.
  • Animated air brakes (using throttle).
  • Animated rudder.
  • Animated elevator & elevator trim.
  • Animated rudder pedals (front & rear).
  • Animated air brakes handles.
  • Animated elevator trim handles.
  • Animated yokes (front & rear).
  • Animated canopy (using gear key).
  •  
  • Sounds for:
    - General wind.
    - Air brakes wind.
    - Roll.
    - Creak % Vario beep based on AoA.
  •  
  • Working instruments/gauges:
    - Turn indicator (front & rear).
    - Air speed indicator (front & rear).
    - Vertical speed indicator (front & rear).
    - Compass (front & rear).
    - Altimeter (front & rear).
    ‎‎‎
Release Video:
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HiFlyer

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2014, 05:38:32 am »

First!!!

And..... Yay!! Looks great!

Now we just need some actual wind.  ;D
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Levi

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2014, 05:41:00 am »

First!!!

And..... Yay!! Looks great!
Thanks!
So... you're MultiTesseract from YouTube! nice, I didn't know that :D

Now we just need some actual wind.  ;D
Yep, that's a must have for a glider I guess :D
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:54:48 am by Levi »
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HiFlyer

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2014, 06:58:47 am »

First!!!

And..... Yay!! Looks great!
Thanks!
So... you're MultiTesseract from YouTube! nice, I didn't know that :D

Now we just need some actual wind.  ;D
Yep, that's a must have for a glider I guess :D

I have no idea how hard it is to program such a thing, even if its just faked random gusts, but the fact that even some Ipad/tablet sims can pull it off argues that the overhead is not necessarily all that high.

Here's hoping.
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CaptTrego

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2014, 08:41:48 am »

Nice work fellas!   8) 8)
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bomber

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2014, 09:48:35 am »

If it was was me i'd keep, wind, thermals and turbulence inside JSBsim, having dialogue box control and such within Outerra.

" you don't have a dog and bark ”

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HiFlyer

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2014, 10:10:12 am »

If it was was me i'd keep, wind, thermals and turbulence inside JSBsim, having dialogue box control and such within Outerra.

" you don't have a dog and bark ”

For myself I don't care how it gets done. The big advantage I might see with JSBsim is that they could leave it up to the community to do the grunt work while they primarily provide the interface.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:12:18 am by HiFlyer »
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M7

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Re: [Released] Schleicher ASK-13 (glider)
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2014, 10:35:16 am »

Really beautifull and again great job on the animation!
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