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Author Topic: AeroKinetics Mod  (Read 143016 times)

PytonPago

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2014, 08:32:31 am »

Beautifull !
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We are still undeveloped as long as we don´t realize, that all our science is still descriptive, and than beyond that description lies a whole new world we just haven´t even started to fully understand.

Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2014, 09:16:00 am »

Let me know if the upper stage goes into an uncontrollable spin near the apogee, it has happened a few times for me. Also, the closer to the equator your launch site is the more initial velocity from the Earth's spin your rocket will be imparted with. Post your screens/videos!

Regards,
Uriah
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 09:18:03 am by Uriah509 »
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2014, 05:31:23 am »

Illuminated semi-transparent rocket flames, (very basic), that turn on/off with throttle.

SRB, SSME and RL-10 rocket sounds working that turn on/off with engines.

Sounds decrease in volume with decrease in atmospheric pressure and cut off when the pressure goes below 0.01 Pascals. There is a persistent bug that turns sounds back on when SRBs are jettisoned.

Switch between Manual and Autopilot modes. (Fly-by-wire inertial stabilization coming soon in manual mode!)

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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2014, 01:49:22 pm »

Thanks to necro for the Vehicle Assembly Building and O2/H2 Tank!

Thanks to Acetone for the awesome Alaskan scenery and the tips on working with the OT road tools. Finally figured out how to make a proper launch pad using nothing but roads.

And thank you Levi for all your help!

Last but not least, thank you to the Outerra team, Great engine!!!!


















« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 01:57:59 pm by Uriah509 »
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M7

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2014, 02:17:31 pm »

This is looking great! The road painting works really well!
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Acetone

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2014, 02:42:45 pm »

Thanks to necro for the Vehicle Assembly Building and O2/H2 Tank!

Thanks to Acetone for the awesome Alaskan scenery and the tips on working with the OT road tools. Finally figured out how to make a proper launch pad using nothing but roads.

And thank you Levi for all your help!

Last but not least, thank you to the Outerra team, Great engine!!!!


Looks really cool, clever use of road paintings :)

One simple note : you can control road overlapping by selecting a road (with the road tool open) and pressing "make" again. The selected road will go under every other road it crosses. It can be usefull for the one in picture #5. However, be warned, in some situations this can modify the local roads elevation in a weird way, so be sure to make a backup of your cache folder regulary, in case of problem :)

Feel free to PM me if you want some help for scenery creation. I will have some work to do on Talkeetna in January, but after that, if you need some roads/city setting around your launch pad, I will be happy to help you if you need it :)
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Levi

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2014, 02:53:26 pm »

Great work Uriah!
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2014, 03:57:04 pm »

Thanks everyone!

Acetone, yes I've had mixed success with that technique, but I am starting to get the hang of doing it right the first time so I don't have to come back. Do you work in a fresh install of Anteworld so that the files in the cache folder are ONLY the ones you need? I figure it is very difficult to go in a pull what I just built out because it is mixed in with Talkeetna. It was just a practice run anyway!

I didn't mean to invade Talkeetna with a spaceport either, it just happens to be the biggest small town there is currently ;) ...and you put the radio telescopes in such a convenient location!

I would definitely appreciate your help on scenery for the final launch complex(s), that would be awesome! Once I build them I will send you the files and let you fill in the surrounding areas. We certainly have plenty of buildings, thanks to the likes of Levi. I figure that since static objects disappear after a certain distance that only scenery within the view of the rocket as it ascends would be necessary for each site. I am going to do SLC-37 and LC-39A in Canveral, FL and another somewhere else, maybe WA or CA. These will be installed with the mod. Since the mod will come with all the launch complex parts people can also build their own anywhere. Instead of spawning a rocket from the menu, I need to initialize the rocket on the launch pad in the vertical position next to the launch tower (JSBSim y-axis --> Outerra/Z-axis), that will be tricky.

Regards,
Uriah
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Acetone

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2014, 04:33:39 am »

Thanks everyone!

Acetone, yes I've had mixed success with that technique, but I am starting to get the hang of doing it right the first time so I don't have to come back. Do you work in a fresh install of Anteworld so that the files in the cache folder are ONLY the ones you need? I figure it is very difficult to go in a pull what I just built out because it is mixed in with Talkeetna. It was just a practice run anyway!

Nope, but I can locate where are my scenery using this map. If you open the Talkeetna otx, you fill find only the cache files of this region :)

I didn't mean to invade Talkeetna with a spaceport either, it just happens to be the biggest small town there is currently ;) ...and you put the radio telescopes in such a convenient location!

I didn't realized you had built it near Talkeetna :) It's a bit sad because the next update I will publish will erase your work if you install it (no way to "merge" lower level cache files for the moment) :(
From what I see here, it will not be hard to reproduce, did you use precise data for the lengh/width of the roads?

For reference, the telescopes site really exist near Talkeetna :)

I would definitely appreciate your help on scenery for the final launch complex(s), that would be awesome! Once I build them I will send you the files and let you fill in the surrounding areas. We certainly have plenty of buildings, thanks to the likes of Levi. I figure that since static objects disappear after a certain distance that only scenery within the view of the rocket as it ascends would be necessary for each site. I am going to do SLC-37 and LC-39A in Canveral, FL and another somewhere else, maybe WA or CA. These will be installed with the mod. Since the mod will come with all the launch complex parts people can also build their own anywhere. Instead of spawning a rocket from the menu, I need to initialize the rocket on the launch pad in the vertical position next to the launch tower (JSBSim y-axis --> Outerra/Z-axis), that will be tricky.

Good luck ! Maybe a stupid suggestion, but is it possible to add an invisible collision mesh around the rocket wich will help to set it stable when placed? Since rockets are not really supposed to interact with terrain, it could be a good solution for you (if the launch terrain is flat).

Regards,
Uriah
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2014, 05:37:26 am »

I didn't realized you had built it near Talkeetna :) It's a bit sad because the next update I will publish will erase your work if you install it (no way to "merge" lower level cache files for the moment) :(
From what I see here, it will not be hard to reproduce, did you use precise data for the lengh/width of the roads?

Not I was just developing a method to build the launch pad using the OT road rather than importing a launch pad model which was having zero success. I am already working on SLC-37 in Cape Canaveral and it sounds like you'll be the first to see it!

Good luck ! Maybe a stupid suggestion, but is it possible to add an invisible collision mesh around the rocket wich will help to set it stable when placed? Since rockets are not really supposed to interact with terrain, it could be a good solution for you (if the launch terrain is flat).

Not a stupid question at all, I've been working on that problem for three days with no luck, but I just found the solution to spawning the rocket or its side, and it will also allow stage separation finally!!! I would really appreciate some help on this, it could open up a ton of possibilities in Outerra, including armaments such as bombs/missile on aircraft. You could also write a script to calculate a part is destroyed given a collision and spawn/replace the mesh with a bunch of fragments/broken pieces of the original mesh, which are separately simulated. (Things could brake/explode!  :D)

Since JSB uses Y as the vertical axis and OT uses Z, the rocket is spawned laying down horizontally. I was searching the forum for a way to specify the position/orientation/translational velocity/rotational velocity of a vehicle/aircraft when it is spawned. I found this thread, 'External Dynamic Data', this thread, 'Real time GPS input' and this thread, 'Integrating with another sim' in which Cameni provides a means to do just that, such as the code below:

Code: [Select]
  var world,igc,vehicle;

  function ll2xyz(lon,lat) {
    const R = 6378135;
    const rad = Math.PI/180.0;
    var fc = Math.cos(lon*rad);
    var fs = Math.sin(lon*rad);
    var ac = Math.cos(lat*rad);

    return [R*fc*ac, R*fs*ac, R*Math.sin(lat*rad)];
  }

  if(!world) world = $eview.$query_interface("ot::js::world.get");
  if(!igc) igc = $eview.$query_interface("ot::js::igc.get");
  if(world && !vehicle) {
    var c = map.getBounds().getCenter();    //this is from google maps object
    var pos = ll2xyz(c.lng(), c.lat());
    vehicle = world.create_instance("outerra/ddg/ddg", pos, {x:0, y:0, z:0, w:1}, false);
  }

My plan is to spawn the rocket stages from separate aircraft files, first the command module, and using a modified version of the script above, set each stage to the position/orientation/translation velocity/rotational velocity of the command module. The command module (parent) will calculate all of the forces for all of the attached stages (children) and contain all of the functionality, and the pointmasses for each attached stage will be set to zero while attached to the parent (essentially non-functional). When the stage is jettisoned, an SRB for example, its mass will be set to the empty case weight and it will be initialized in JSBSim imparted with the initial position/orientation/translation velocity/rotational velocity.

If it is not possible to attach on aircraft to another from launch, than I can spawn the SRB_stage and hide the coorisponding SRB_mesh and the SRB_stage will be initialized in JSBSim as soon as it is spawned, again being imparted with the current position/orientation/translation velocity/rotational velocity at the moment of separation. I am not sure which method will work, maybe both, in which case I can think of many different purposes suitable for each.

The only piece of the puzzle that is still missing is how to get one aircraft (SRB_stage) to read the JSBSim position/orientation/translation velocity/rotational velocity of another aircraft, the command module. I know it can be done, just not sure how yet. Any thoughts?

Regards,
Uriah
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 06:08:40 am by Uriah509 »
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2014, 02:40:27 pm »

Update: With help from Brano I am developing something akin to an assembly. There is a ton of integration to do, and a few problems to solve, but I am very confident it will work.

I am now able to run a script from the current rocket which spawns a second aircraft at the same position and orientation, and references the new object so I can call JSB variables and methods such as getting the tank capacity, empty weight, etc. Now I just need to figure out how to use external forces to fasten the two aircraft and integrate their total forces. Like the hold-down force, I need a 'hold-together' force which can be activated/deactivated. The integrator is actually fairly simple but the hold-together force, not so much.

I'll post updates periodically when I know more.

Regards,
Uriah
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2014, 02:48:39 pm »

P.S. just to clarify, each stage will be a separate aircraft each with its own FDM, etc, and hopefully it will be modular so you could create an assembly using different configurations of components. :)
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Voyager55

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2015, 04:48:23 pm »

Flabbergasted, i'm completely flabbergasted! Kerbal Space Program is basically my life, and this.... ohh boy this will be good. Is the simulation of the proper atmospheric drag already incorporated?
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Uriah

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2015, 08:09:37 pm »

Hi Voyager55,

First of all, I hope you stick around, there will be some awesome things happening in Outerra in the near future. Second, I'm glad your interested in the rockets I'm developing and yes, aerodynamics are incorporated in the JSBSim Flight Dynamic Model, and it is easy to build your own FDM for new rockets with a little research and time. I will be releasing a full tutorial in the future which explains how to go about building your own FDM and importing a 3d rocket model. In terms of sim accuracy, I only have one serious bug in the way, and someone is helping me develop a solution to that at the moment. Compared with KSP, JSBSim has far more realistic gravitational and aerodynamic physics and since Outerra uses real-world scale, you don't have the scale problems present in KSP. I love KSP by the way! It is a great game, but I am looking for more of a sim environment, and less of a game. I understand there is a project,  Principia, which is developing N-Body physics and a better integrator for KSP. I am excited to see that happen. However, if you're trying to model real-world launch vehicles, I don't think KSP can ever quite match to what I can already do in JSBSim. Not to say JSB doesn't have its shortcomings too, a few bugs we are working on, but the flight data I am outputting from the Jupiter 246/ Ares IVf is already extremely accurate up until upper stage separation, at which point the sim data deviates from the real world data when compared side by side.

Don't let the recent lack of activity on this thread fool you either, I have not been posting a whole lot lately but I can tell you that we are building a massive real-world scenery, and I am developing five different launch vehicles; the Delta IV, Delta II, Atlas V, Falcon 9 and a "special project" I can't talk about yet. Buy yourself a copy of Outerra, (it is only $15 USD), and stay tuned. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED! :)

Best regards,
Uriah
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 08:19:40 pm by Uriah509 »
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Voyager55

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Re: AeroKinetics Mod
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2015, 08:13:33 am »

Thank you for such a well thought out post! When playing KSP realism was always a craving, Realism Overhaul was great , but it looks like KSP could truly pale in comparison. Can't wait to see what's coming!
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