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[KW71]

Nothing new about this? $5 here.

[konaone]

Also I am there, but we are a bit short in two ..... we wait adhesions

[HiFlyer]

Also I am there, but we are a bit short in two ..... we wait adhesions

What?

[konaone]

not talking about buying the model to $ 99?

[HiFlyer]

Ok, sorry, I did not understand that first statement.

I Guess we are all waiting to find out about the plane.

[Uriah]

Products under the Royalty Free License may be used in games or software under these conditions.

1. The TurboSquid material is contained in the interactive experience provided for the user of the software or game, and not made available to users outside of such use of the software or game.

2. The TurboSquid material is contained in proprietary format that cannot be opened in a publicly available software application and from which the TurboSquid material cannot be extracted or decompiled without reverse engineering.

3. The software or game has no functionality for end users to import any open 3D file format or export any TurboSquid material.
http://support.turbosquid.com/entries/29237436-Royalty-Free-License-FAQ#softwareorgame

However, please be aware that there is a restriction to keep in mind that could prevent you from using certain products. Under the Royalty Free License, if the product depicts an outside party’s product design (e.g., a Lockheed Martin F-35 aircraft), you are ultimately responsible for determining if you need to clear rights with another party (e.g., with Lockheed Martin) to use any depiction in the product that may be protected by the proprietary rights of the outside party. If you need further assistance for this legal determination, we recommend seeking counsel from a lawyer.
http://support.turbosquid.com/entries/29237436-Royalty-Free-License-FAQ#editorialuse

Very truly yours,
REDACTED
Designated Agent

LICENSING & IP | TURBOSQUID, INC.

I am still unsure what to think about number 3, but do not think Lockheed Martin can file a lawsuit for a 3d representation of their aircraft. I find that statement to be questionable, as I am sure all the people making aircraft for games are not contacting Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, or any other manufacturer for consent.

Like to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Uriah

[cameni]

Well, 3 sounds like a blocker to me, the way it's worded. End users clearly can import open formats, and there's or, not and, between that and "export any TurboSquid material". The rule as such doesn't make sense though. What are they trying to achieve with it?

[Acetone]

Products under the Royalty Free License may be used in games or software under these conditions.

1. The TurboSquid material is contained in the interactive experience provided for the user of the software or game, and not made available to users outside of such use of the software or game.

2. The TurboSquid material is contained in proprietary format that cannot be opened in a publicly available software application and from which the TurboSquid material cannot be extracted or decompiled without reverse engineering.

3. The software or game has no functionality for end users to import any open 3D file format or export any TurboSquid material.
http://support.turbosquid.com/entries/29237436-Royalty-Free-License-FAQ#softwareorgame

However, please be aware that there is a restriction to keep in mind that could prevent you from using certain products. Under the Royalty Free License, if the product depicts an outside party’s product design (e.g., a Lockheed Martin F-35 aircraft), you are ultimately responsible for determining if you need to clear rights with another party (e.g., with Lockheed Martin) to use any depiction in the product that may be protected by the proprietary rights of the outside party. If you need further assistance for this legal determination, we recommend seeking counsel from a lawyer.
http://support.turbosquid.com/entries/29237436-Royalty-Free-License-FAQ#editorialuse

Very truly yours,
REDACTED
Designated Agent

LICENSING & IP | TURBOSQUID, INC.

I am still unsure what to think about number 3, but do not think Lockheed Martin can file a lawsuit for a 3d representation of their aircraft. I find that statement to be questionable, as I am sure all the people making aircraft for games are not contacting Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, or any other manufacturer for consent.

Like to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Uriah

There are several case in the past where planes manufacturers asked for a royalty fee for the use of some models. I'm not worried too much for the F-35, but more for the Cessna. The most recent case is the Microsoft Flight failure, wich was undirectly created by that according one of the devs. Apparently, they started making cockpit-less and free to play non-sense after having to drop several already finished planes, because constructors  were asking for insane royalties (that's what happens when you see "Microsoft" printed at the top of the letter).

But I agree with Cameni, number 3 seems really restrective, especially the fact that they use the term "any Turbosquid material", wich means that not only 3D models are under restricted use, but textures might be too.

The rule as such doesn't make sense though. What are they trying to achieve with it?

Covering their backs. Note how they insist on the fact that they are not responsible for the proprietary rights of the model. They put a clean line where their responsibility is. The rest is between the client and any third party right owner.

[cameni]

Well I guess it's covering their backs, but for what exact purpose in (3)? Possible third party proprietary design rights are understandable, but this clause is in section where they try to ensure the model cannot be redistributed or reused by other parties, affecting TurboSquid business. But I fail to see how the first part of the third clause would harm either TurboSquid or the original author, so it makes no sense in that context to me.

[Uriah]

Well.. my thinking is that basically all games you can mod, in fact people have hacked Grand Theft Auto and many other games in ways that are not intended but not protected against. However a game company like Rockstar probably does all their modeling in-house to avoid dealing with IP laws.

A lawsuit against Microsoft by an aircraft manufacturer in their commercial game is plausible, but non-commercially should be a different story you would think.

The import open 3d format terminology and the or operator are definitely the biggest concerns. But I'm extremely puzzled as to why so many games can and are using TurboSquid materials. I've asked for clearification, but I'm basically leaning against using any 3d content from TurboSquid and going directly to the artist.

Also there is no doubt the texture is protected under IP laws just as much as the model. Like a certain person who held the IP rights for an aircraft Levi wanted to use noted on a thread somewhere, every polygon and every pixel is their intellectual property. If you re-texture the model, it is still theirs, if you make a model and use the texture, it is still theirs, if you modify both the texture and the model and they discover it, it is still theirs. The laws are very unforgiving if you have money for them to file suit for they will, like in the case of Microsoft. Usually if someone is infringing on someone else's IP but not making money from it, they will get a cease and desist letter, but if they are making money and/or have disclosed IP in a manner that it puts their product at risk or discloses it, they will file a serious law suit.

Like I said, I'm about at the point where it isn't worth the risk even if TurboSquid says "Go ahead", that is why acquiring assets directly from artists is the way to go.

I do think it would be possible to crowd-source funds to purchase a model from an artist, but the artist and product would have to lined-up ahead of time, and there would need to be significant interest in the aircraft in question before hand. We could easily run the fund raising campaign on Kickstarter. However we would be talking in terms of thousands of dollars for high end products, even with a non-exclusive license agreement. I don't think thousands of dollars is out of the question, but that is why I say significant interest.

Just to be honest with you guys, I am far more interested in the JSBSim flight model and functionality behind VTOL/STOVL. That is why "I am here" after all, is to pioneer functionality "for those to come". I really do want to get a model for the F-35, specifically so I can release a VTOL/STOVL aircraft for OT, but I am not sure when/if/how that will happen.

Regards,
Uriah

[PytonPago]

Well I guess it's covering their backs, but for what exact purpose in (3)? Possible third party proprietary design rights are understandable, but this clause is in section where they try to ensure the model cannot be redistributed or reused by other parties, affecting TurboSquid business. But I fail to see how the first part of the third clause would harm either TurboSquid or the original author, so it makes no sense in that context to me.

 ... not sure if it is to protect TS or the original autor ... remember such brainer cases as suing that bar named Hobbit ? They had that name a long time, but once some --- had the rights, he started a crack-down on it. So its more about legal tender holder rights than creators or resselers/forwarders.

Some digital producers were even to change names of certain real-life vehicles to fantasy-names too, cause of such brainer issues.    -- id say, the world has gone mad. Ya know, the great roman empire fell not cause of theyr expansion policy, or economics, but cause of all that required paperwork n administration personell. Well, kinda what our times do.

Also, few others are interesting too :

May I use TurboSquid products in virtual worlds?

Generally, no. While we greatly respect Second Life and related communities, TurboSquid’s artist community does not believe the IP protections for their work are sufficient in these worlds.

The specific exclusion in the Royalty Free License is based on the virtual world being open for importing/exporting and the potential for use as a conduit for piracy for TurboSquid models. If a virtual world is more like World of Warcraft or a closed MMO, then that should be allowed. Please check the Royalty Free License for the specific language.

 
May I print a 3D Model to create a physical object for personal use?

You may make up to five physical units of a TurboSquid 3D model (by 3D printing or other means) for personal use, gifts, or donations.

No modding open virtual structure ... and how does one keep track of someone printing more than 5 models ?     


Uriah has right - right from autor system should be promoted and some more, better sharing/trading places created, where such legal-nonsense would be kept aside. Stupid is, aether digital forwarding (that means the sites) have to live somehow too (funds for existence on servers) and even a single dollar this way (or creators way) makes it to bend ower the legal monsters. But i hope some of the "whatewer-coins" may bring some change in the future, when much more people world-wide start dumping national curencyes ...

Uriah, i dont think you would wait for a snail like me to model a Yak-36/38/141 ? --- actualy, i wouldnt really mind if its some box with a window if it is a fully functional VTOL script, ready to be used for custom models for the future. Doe, flight characteristics ... just dont put that box ya stole from the neighbours cat into a wind tunnel. (that is, if its a mere siluette of a F-35 in modeling terms, slapped some partially functional cockpit inside, no biggy - someone will come with a better model sooner or later).

[Uriah]

Good words Pyton, good words.

I'm optimistic! 

Regards,
Uriah

[HiFlyer]

You now know why so many flying games either use fictional vehicles or vehicles for which there are essentially no possible copyright issues, like WW2//WW1 fighter planes.

[Uriah]

Ah ha! I have a solution, but it doesn't include the F-35 sadly.

For the past several years I've been designing a small VTOL/STOVL aircraft that I intend to build. I thought it might be interesting to import the CAD model for Outerra and build a detailed FDM based of my real flight test data. This would produce an extremely accurate FDM for this type of aircraft and there are NO copyright/IP laws because it is all my original work. I'll post detailed information about the aircraft and document how the FDM is built so that others can more easily use the FDM as an example to build their own. Also, I can use jsbsim to model the autopilot which will eventually fly the real aircraft.

In concept, the aircraft will be able to autonomously takeoff and land like a quadcopter and fly like a plane. Its quad tilt rotor design, integrated into a conventional airframe, was borrowed from a design sent to me by Ron D. St. Clair. I've had to develop solutions to a number of critical problems, including prop efficiency in both vertical hover and forward flight. Since a different propeller pitch angle is required for optimal efficiency in forward flight than in hover, I've designed a variable pitch prop almost the limit of miniature scale, borrowing from other designs used for RC helicopters and similar aircraft with variable pitch props at the RC scale. The problems with finding them commercially is the materials they are made of don't withstand the rotor velocity for vertical take-off, and the pitch control linkages usually fail. I'll have my variable pitch prop assembly CNC cut from a Titanium plate, and precision welded together. It sounds exotic, but no materials I've tried. The composite fuselage and one piece wing will have mounting brackets for attaching/detaching propulsion and control linkage systems so I can build several variants of different configurations on the same airframe, which will accelerate my development cycle overall.

I would be thrilled if I could use OT/JSBSim as an integrated conceptual design platform for real world applications! That would be something. Look out for an upcoming thread: Outerra X-Prize!!!

Separate Lift and Thrust design configuration. This configuration will be used to test the airframe, control system and flight characteristics before integrating the tilt rotor system. I'm using what is called a Spiral Development Cycle, which tests the flight envelope in phases, expanding the envelope with each test and design variant.

[PytonPago]

Whats the dimensions and weight of that thing if ya need Ti-nium pitch prop assembly ? ... are those RC-things really so badly in vibration-induced damage props. ?  And !! ...are those VTOL-purpose propellers retractable for horizontal flight mode, adding in power ?

Ya know what ... dont bother with answering such puny questions, i just want a two seater, person-carry capable version for romantic sight-seeing in OT Multiplayer.