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Author Topic: Wind map  (Read 28709 times)

bomber

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Wind map
« on: March 28, 2015, 03:31:13 pm »
Update to the flight model to come.....  We need to work on a wind map...
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M7

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2015, 05:23:05 pm »
Quote from: bomber on March 28, 2015, 03:31:13 pm
Update to the flight model to come.....  We need to work on a wind map...

Is that like a static map where at a given point on the map you would have x wind speed in y direction? and then air moving up and down as well?
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bomber

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2015, 05:34:10 pm »
Yes something like that.... Colour index map...

If it has to start out as static,  then so be it, but over time if expect this map to be server derived so as we're all experiencing the same thing.
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M7

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 05:40:55 pm »
That would be so cool!!!! a bit or a lot of unexpected would add so much to the experience of flying.
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bomber

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2015, 05:54:49 pm »
I just think it's not outside the boundaries of our abilities to develop a system that looks at the layout of the land and calculates expected wind, shear , eddies etc ... not in real time, produces a 'map'. That can be then easily used by jsbsim to adjust certain inbuilt property values in real time.

It doesn't have to be real complicated to start with... 256 colours speeds from 0-what ever. another map 256 colours for direction (360 would be better but heck computers weren't thought of when the compass was created) and a grey scale map for speed of rising or sinking air.

Of course this has to be sync'd into the terrain such that for a given grid position we get a colour number, colour number, greyscale number.

The rest is JSBsim.

Look this is just an idea of how I'd go about doing it... if someone has a better idea great
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 06:43:59 am by bomber »
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HiFlyer

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2015, 05:58:39 pm »
Quote from: bomber on March 29, 2015, 05:54:49 pm
I just think it's not outside the boundaries of our abilities to develop a system that looks at the layout of the land and calculates expected wind, shear , eddies etc ... not in real time, produces a 'map'. That can be then easily used by jsbsim to adjust certain inbuilt property values in real time.

It doesn't have to be real complicated to start with... 256 colours speeds from 0-what ever. another map 256 colours for direction (365 would be better but heck computers weren't thought of when the compass was created) and a grey scale map for speed of rising or sinking air.

Of course this has to be sync'd into the terrain such that for a given grid position we get a colour number, colour number, greyscale number.

The rest is JSBsim.

Look this is just an idea of how I'd go about doing it... if someone has a better idea great

I think, and that thought has become firmer in the last few weeks, that Outerra is close to functional equivalency with Aerofly, which is already on sale on Steam, and has been for quite some time. I wonder how much further things will go before a kickstarter moves from just talk to something actually on the horizon?
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M7

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2015, 10:34:24 pm »
Quote from: bomber on March 29, 2015, 05:54:49 pm
I just think it's not outside the boundaries of our abilities to develop a system that looks at the layout of the land and calculates expected wind, shear , eddies etc ... not in real time, produces a 'map'. That can be then easily used by jsbsim to adjust certain inbuilt property values in real time.

It doesn't have to be real complicated to start with... 256 colours speeds from 0-what ever. another map 256 colours for direction (365 would be better but heck computers weren't thought of when the compass was created) and a grey scale map for speed of rising or sinking air.

Of course this has to be sync'd into the terrain such that for a given grid position we get a colour number, colour number, greyscale number.

The rest is JSBsim.

I'm just curious of the implication. The first implimentation  would be a 2d map but in the best world, it would be in 3d ? volumetric data from 0 to 30000 meters in altitude or something. And if a 100m resolution for world geometry equal to 12 Gig then say a 1000m resolution for wind map in 3d could be similar at 10Gig or more? Then the user could download only the  wind data map for it's location the same way you can download the geometry at the moment?

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bomber

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 07:31:26 am »
We really need this discussion oiking out into a separate thread.... Admin can you help here please...

Anyway have a look at this.

http://www.glidinghotspots.eu/index.php?module=simple&options=view;0002.xml#6

http://www.cugc.org.uk/node/45

Back to my thoughts...

First of all we need to separate out 'weather' from 'wind' , they're related sure in the same way as tides and waves are for the sea, but they're not the same thing...

So weathers a separate issue...

My thoughts are lets say we need something 'local' to an area.. a mountain range that describes the winds, thermals, shears etc within this set area

Also let me explain unlike the terrain (that everyone has to have) this is optional for those that want to use it during their flight... lets say a glider community want to set up a competition between point A and B for an event. They simply pre-run an app to generate a series of maps which are then distributed to the competitors prior to flight.

So I'm not thinking massive download for everyone.
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HiFlyer

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 07:40:18 am »
Hmmmmmmm..... any Idea how fsx, X-plane etc accomplish this in their worlds, without massive download sizes?
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Daikan

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2015, 06:49:22 pm »
X-Plane provides a (near) real-time global weather option which is based on global METAR reports obtained online from http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/observations/metar/cycles/. However, I'm not sure if it interpolates the conditions in-between METAR stations or if it just uses the METAR of the nearest station as you fly along.

But what's really cool in X-Plane is the modeling of turbulence (e.g. up- and down-draft) caused by wind blowing over sloped terrain. It's really great for soaring and mountain flying...

Also, there are a number of free plugins which control X-Plane weather parameters in their own way (like for example [XPGFS] NOAA Weather)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 06:58:44 pm by Daikan »
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bomber

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015, 05:30:19 am »
Yes weather has been solved using meta data for planet earth in xplane and flightgear, so for weather we could follow the same path...

Wind and turbulence have also had some work done in these app, the question is how good is it really and how does it work in cities and in mountainous areas
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"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

PytonPago

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 07:16:20 pm »
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We are still undeveloped as long as we don´t realize, that all our science is still descriptive, and than beyond that description lies a whole new world we just haven´t even started to fully understand.

zombie00

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 07:35:57 pm »
Quote from: PytonPago on June 28, 2016, 07:16:20 pm
Just found this site :

https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=21.00,45.58,495

 ... seems interesting.

That's really cool, it can even display the wind at different heights or the waves and currents. It says the source for the wind map "GFS / NCEP / US National Weather Service", maybe making the heightmap as Bomber suggested isn't that hard. If we eventually get water physic simulation, having waves and currents based on real information would be way too awesome.
I also noticed it shows temperature and humidity, I'm not a planes expert, but could that be used as input for the simulation?
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PytonPago

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 06:05:15 am »
  Im sure there could be a way to get that info somehow, boht temparatures and winds and at different altitudes ... would be awesome to have this in OT !

  As for oceans ... im not sure how oceanic data is gained, probably hasnt enough localized data to see the whole ocean-volume properly in currents just as good as winds, especially if depth should be in mind too. But definitely would be a great thing.
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We are still undeveloped as long as we don´t realize, that all our science is still descriptive, and than beyond that description lies a whole new world we just haven´t even started to fully understand.

langdon

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Re: Wind map
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 01:25:17 pm »
Hi,
You may be interested in this:



The quality of the video is pretty bad but I think you'll get the idea.
I'll 'release' the plugin shortly. It's definitely still a work in progress but I would be curious to get some feedback.

The METAR data is free from NOAA. The data in the video is pulled down (about 1 Mb) when Outerra loads so there's a bit of a start delay. METAR has surface winds. I grab the 3 closest points and interpolate to get a value at the current Lat/Lon.

I've got Cloud Coverage, Surface Wind. Direction, Precipitation, Cloud Base and height. Outerra only has one level of clouds so I use the lowest base and the highest high for cloud height.

The wind data at different altitudes is also available but it's currently an ~38Mb download, so I need to figure out how to compress it and just take the bits that are local to my current position.

L
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