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Author Topic: Further updates to texturing  (Read 8007 times)

cameni

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Further updates to texturing
« on: April 04, 2015, 01:33:13 pm »

After some changes to the rock coloring, here are some further changes to the terrain and rock texturing overall.

  • higher contrast on rocks
  • modified displacement - smaller rocks around rock faces
  • larger scale patches for grass and dirt color tone modifications



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ZeosPantera

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 03:23:02 pm »

I like it.. I think I can't tell which is which but one of them is an improvement!
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josem75

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 03:37:56 pm »

Wow Cameni. Way way better! The changes you already made in the actual version, improved terrain a lot. And now those changes are another step.
The refinement to have smaller rocks was very necesary. Now they looks much more natural (before sometimes they was too huge).
Displacement pattern seems to be better too. That effect of the "volcanic" rocks is much less now. You can see what i say coveral in the first picture. Rocks look more square and natural now. (too much rounded and too much big was a lack in outerra rocks for me, and those changes are going directly to solve this lack).
Also making  green patterns biger make terrain look more natural! Great eye in the needs..
Its nice to see you are working in that task and also having very nice results. Few more improves and 30m mesh will make an almost perfect terrain.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 06:34:24 pm by josem75 »
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Acetone

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2015, 03:40:51 pm »

The difference is really visible in the rocky area in the middle of the first image, and in the background slope for the last one. There must be interesting displacement tweaking here, because I think it's the first time I see a rock formation in Outerra that looks like layers of sediments. It's hard to see a global difference, but I do find the new pictures more natural :)
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josem75

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2015, 03:58:55 pm »

I know the trees and their size are temporary. But i think if in the next version you reduce de biggest size lets say in 25-30%, you will make a much more real world. The smaller size for me is ok, but the biggest and the average result is too big. Or maybe some specie, one or two can be almost that big but the general group should look less than actually.
Having smaller trees will be more natural and will make outerra terrain looks better and more natural too in my opinion. Coz now its like you see a scale problem when u are looking at the terrain. I can see in my place mountains, comparing with the real one. And i would say that with all the improvements lately in the terrain, this scale trees problem is the thing you can see  as fail more clear. the diference between what i see in real here and what i see in outerra.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 04:04:13 pm by josem75 »
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KW71

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2015, 07:17:32 pm »

Way better!!!
 
In the second picture, the patch of bare land is now more subtle and natural. The rocks are more visible and appealing from distance... Great!!!

Congratulations and thanks!!!

"But i think if in the next version you reduce de biggest size lets say in 25-30%, you will make a much more real world."

I agree with that. The huge trees make the mountains look smaller than they are... But the reduction in size would also reduce de "visual density" of the forest... Something in between...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 07:21:01 pm by KW71 »
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Revolver

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2015, 07:47:48 pm »

After some changes to the rock coloring, here are some further changes to the terrain and rock texturing overall... 

3 pictures from above (without tree) looks more realistic.
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josem75

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 05:21:35 am »

I like it.. I think I can't tell which is which but one of them is an improvement!

You scared me for some second, but then if you move hte bar to the right you can see Old and New text in the pictures in the right down corner xDD
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HiFlyer

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 07:59:18 am »

Very nice!

I know the trees and their size are temporary. But i think if in the next version you reduce de biggest size lets say in 25-30%, you will make a much more real world. The smaller size for me is ok, but the biggest and the average result is too big. Or maybe some specie, one or two can be almost that big but the general group should look less than actually.
Having smaller trees will be more natural and will make outerra terrain looks better and more natural too in my opinion. Coz now its like you see a scale problem when u are looking at the terrain. I can see in my place mountains, comparing with the real one. And i would say that with all the improvements lately in the terrain, this scale trees problem is the thing you can see  as fail more clear. the diference between what i see in real here and what i see in outerra.

I suspect that Outerra is probably closer to what actual trees in the wild look/looked like before people came along and started chopping the crap out of them. In many places in the world, away from human interference, trees grow nice and big.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 08:02:55 am by HiFlyer »
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josem75

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 08:19:39 am »

Very nice!

I know the trees and their size are temporary. But i think if in the next version you reduce de biggest size lets say in 25-30%, you will make a much more real world. The smaller size for me is ok, but the biggest and the average result is too big. Or maybe some specie, one or two can be almost that big but the general group should look less than actually.
Having smaller trees will be more natural and will make outerra terrain looks better and more natural too in my opinion. Coz now its like you see a scale problem when u are looking at the terrain. I can see in my place mountains, comparing with the real one. And i would say that with all the improvements lately in the terrain, this scale trees problem is the thing you can see  as fail more clear. the diference between what i see in real here and what i see in outerra.

I suspect that Outerra is probably closer to what actual trees in the wild look/looked like before people came along and started chopping the crap out of them. In many places in the world, away from human interference, trees grow nice and big.

Exactly. As long as at the moment we cant choose specie and size trees by region, all will look the same, so for a wild forest where trees competing for the sun, this big is ok, but in normal mountains like for example my place, the outerra image produce a big diference in trees, they are probably almost double bigger than reality here, so this make a big diference in the picture comparison.
Asjusting the size would end in a much more accurate in comparison, coverall with all the last improvements in terrain.

For that i think would be nice a 20-30% smaller. BUt anyway angrypig said a more complex trees system is coming. So there we will be able to choose specie and size y region.

The lack in outerra now are bushes. When a bushes system is achieved with variety and colors, the terrain will look crazy.. In fact is incredible terrain look good without them, ant it does..
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 08:22:15 am by josem75 »
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2eyed

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 08:32:56 am »

Definitely an improvement and a minor step before the big one: different biomes for different places. Hope to see that soon.
I too think, trees scale is bigger than it should be. But I suppose, it has to do with performance reasons. If you have bigger trees, you need less of them to fill the world. Well known from FSX and other sims.
I'd like to make smaller ones, but the texture resolution (with fixed 512*1664) is too low right now and spacing between trees would get higher.
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cameni

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 10:41:29 am »

Tree heights were taken from official numbers given to us by biologists from University of Arizona, who were using OT for some visualizations (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PuhqAzTcow#t=653). Funnily enough, they too complained that the trees looked too big, even after confirming their height with the "laser" measurement tool in the HUD.

One problem is that these maximum heights are for trees growing inside forests, where trees compete for sunlight and will grow much higher than the sparse vegetation that has enough space in urban areas. When you place the deep forest ones close to buildings, they will look exaggerated in size because that's not where you can see them normally. More so because the models used are mostly of the standalone trees that were just scaled up to the requested tree size, but the same species look different depending on their age and where they grow.

Also, the density is not right for all species. Right now the maximum density is around 1 tree per 10x10 meter cell. Quadrupling it will probably be enough for most cases, but it would be good to have an additional level of detail or two there to restore the perf back. Old OT versions (before demo) actually had 5x5 meter cells, but later the lighting and shadowing slowed it down considerably.
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PytonPago

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 11:12:10 am »

... using OT for some visualizations (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PuhqAzTcow#t=653).

 ... wow, real deal scientific climate change experts debate events  ... now used as a OT promotion oportunity.  ::)

    ... just kidding off course  =D  Its actually what im waiting for OT to be used for ! ( his post-presentation-vid talk also somehow invokes me a history-channel documentary quote abut middle-age europes tree-situation before finding the American continent  :o - the debate vid is actually really interesting stuff, thanks for sharing it Cameni ! )

 ... would be interesing to see a realisic and multi-species owerhaul of vegetation in their thoughts image. Wehen that happens to OT ... and with 3D procedural vegetation ... my eyes will pop like microvawed popcorn from such sweetness.
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HiFlyer

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 12:20:39 pm »

... using OT for some visualizations (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PuhqAzTcow#t=653).

 ... wow, real deal scientific climate change experts debate events  ... now used as a OT promotion oportunity.  ::)

    ... just kidding off course  =D  Its actually what im waiting for OT to be used for ! ( his post-presentation-vid talk also somehow invokes me a history-channel documentary quote abut middle-age europes tree-situation before finding the American continent  :o - the debate vid is actually really interesting stuff, thanks for sharing it Cameni ! )

 ... would be interesing to see a realisic and multi-species owerhaul of vegetation in their thoughts image. Wehen that happens to OT ... and with 3D procedural vegetation ... my eyes will pop like microvawed popcorn from such sweetness.

Yup!

But.......... if water happens to be implemented first, I won't be unhappy about it.  :D
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John514

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Re: Further updates to texturing
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2015, 10:15:03 am »

Cameni, I came across a similar laser scanning forest project from a German university while watching TV, their 3d visualisation look a lot like outerra as well. Is that the case?
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