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Outerra Tech Demo download. Help with graphics driver issues

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Author Topic: Swarms & Flocks  (Read 18888 times)

andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2016, 08:38:36 pm »

how do you make them move?  i spawned them but they are just static and are arranged in a cube formation
Strange .....
The simulation should "go alone" immediately after placing the model in Anteworld!

If you see a set of elements positioned in a cube formation , means that the simulation, for some reason, is blocked "from the beginning".

The first test to do is to reinstall your model from the original file to google drive.
It may be that, in the first installation, it is lost or badly copied "some bits".

If all else fails, you should refer to the error message will appear in red on the bottom of the screen for a few seconds (if you see it in a fixed way you must press ALT + "L").

Perhaps, knowing this message, I can help more.
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andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2016, 08:44:15 pm »

how do you un-pause?

It pauses the simulation by pressing the "Space" button.
A further press of the key exits the break.
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andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2016, 08:46:39 pm »

Just... speechless!!! Drop jaw!!!

Dear Gerardo .....
I thank you for the compliments, but was your solicitation, really intriguing and irresistible, that drove me to try to find a trick to build a model of the flock!
I do not pretend to have achieved something exceptional (there are countless examples of "living systems" made even better in as many countless video games and simulations).
But ... make it happen after thought it was impossible, and only using fantasy and imagination ... I can not deny it ... inspires me a certain satisfaction.
And all thanks to your invitation ...
Thank you !!!
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pstuddy

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2016, 09:30:50 pm »

Strange .....
The simulation should "go alone" immediately after placing the model in Anteworld!

If you see a set of elements positioned in a cube formation , means that the simulation, for some reason, is blocked "from the beginning".

The first test to do is to reinstall your model from the original file to google drive.
It may be that, in the first installation, it is lost or badly copied "some bits".

If all else fails, you should refer to the error message will appear in red on the bottom of the screen for a few seconds (if you see it in a fixed way you must press ALT + "L").

Perhaps, knowing this message, I can help more.

thanx for the response.  i downloaded it again from your google drive.  after spawning the birds, i press Alt L and this what i got.  here's a screenshot of the error. http://imgur.com/JCZQXDY
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andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2016, 11:04:34 pm »

thanx for the response.  i downloaded it again from your google drive.  after spawning the birds, i press Alt L and this what i got.  here's a screenshot of the error. http://imgur.com/JCZQXDY

I looked  the picture and are increasingly perplexed ...
There is no message indicating the loading model of the flock of birds and therefore error messages caused by its malfunction ...
It seems (and I emphasize "seems") as if you've loaded the model statically using the authoring environment of landscapes that is called from the "object" menu of Anteworld.
I would like to remind you that to make the model you have to load it from the menu "Land" (or F3), select it and click on "Spawn".
Sorry if this advice will seem bland but sometimes the most banal things can cause problems especially if you are new ...

If this is not the solution to your problem, then I give up, I have no useful advice (because for all other users, the model works well).

There might be a problem in Outerra, detectable by the eng.log files study, and, in this case, perhaps only the developers could help.

I wish you good adventures in Anteworld !
andfly
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pstuddy

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2016, 11:50:20 pm »

I looked  the picture and are increasingly perplexed ...
There is no message indicating the loading model of the flock of birds and therefore error messages caused by its malfunction ...
It seems (and I emphasize "seems") as if you've loaded the model statically using the authoring environment of landscapes that is called from the "object" menu of Anteworld.
I would like to remind you that to make the model you have to load it from the menu "Land" (or F3), select it and click on "Spawn".
Sorry if this advice will seem bland but sometimes the most banal things can cause problems especially if you are new ...

If this is not the solution to your problem, then I give up, I have no useful advice (because for all other users, the model works well).

There might be a problem in Outerra, detectable by the [url=http://goo.gl/DaK1M8][url=http://goo.gl/DaK1M8]eng.log[/url][/url] files study, and, in this case, perhaps only the developers could help.

I wish you good adventures in Anteworld !
andfly

thanx a lot!  it worked!  it looks so freakin amazing and realistic! ;)  you were right, i've been spawning them through the objects menu and not from the land menu.  it never crossed my mind that it would be under the vehicle menu.  this also animated the windmill that had me pondering for a while as well.  thanx a bunch bro keep up the great work!
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Acetone

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2016, 02:21:20 am »

Really innovative!

Like the wasps most! I almost feel the fear of being stung by them inside the rift. :D
Funny, two of them dont move at all.

how do you make them move?  i spawned them but they are just static and are arranged in a cube formation

Hi ptstuddy.

Apparently they remain if you spawn them with the new editor. You can open the old objects editor with shift + F7, then find the birds flock in the list and place it. As soon as you leave the editor, they should go up :)
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bomber

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2016, 12:29:07 pm »

That's quiet pleasant to watch.... well done.
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"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2016, 01:13:43 pm »

That's quiet pleasant to watch.... well done.

Thanks bomber!
That's how I saw Outerra from the first moment I met him.
A world in which to enter and feel at ease, a place "pleasant".
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bomber

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2016, 01:23:04 pm »

Can I ask do the objects point in the direction of travel  ?

I ask as your work would look brilliant as a school of fish, and their turning is very obvious.

Also thinking about it for some especially the birds there's a dramatic change in speed from diving to climbing.

I think the insects are spot on.....

Another question. ... I'm on a roll here ☺
Does the distance between objects expand and contract ?
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andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2016, 08:41:30 am »

Another question. ... I'm on a roll here ☺
Does the distance between objects expand and contract ?

You're a very good observer.
The simulation is based on a number of individual flocks (all equal to each 450 elements) that are chasing in the Anteworld sky.
To be able to hold together these flocks must develop a series of mathematical calculations that I determine the speed and direction of movement of each individual bird.
The most simple and straightforward idea is to follow the real rules that determine the movement of a flock, that the principle is called "emergent behavior" which, as you said just you in another post, it must compare the position and attitude of a single element with that of all the other elements of the group, because there is not a "pack leader" who decides for all but each moves according to the movement of the other nearest birds.
And ... that, to me, was a problem.
Too many calculations and iterations nested in other iterations ...
I would not have managed to co-exist a large number of elements and, to create the "bird black clouds" effect, the number "must" be great.
Thus I chose one other rule of motion, inspired to the most simple rules of nature, such as, for example, the gravitational force.
Each flock has a center that exerts a force of attraction of all the elements that compose it and that prevents their dispersion.
The calculations are performed in a single iteration and are very fast.
Obviously you have to enter disturbing elements generated by random coefficients to mask the regularity of this motion and give that aspect of "pseudo-random" typical of living things move.
But ... the typical pulse of this type of movement ... is not totally erasable.


I ask as your work would look brilliant as a school of fish, and their turning is very obvious.

Also thinking about it for some especially the birds there's a dramatic change in speed from diving to climbing.


Even the rotation, unfortunately it is evident, just for the introduction of intentional disturbs in the calculations to make the simulation more realistic ...
During the turns of the flock I set one "stretching" which should simulate the formation of a "head" and a "tail" and, for the most distant birds, the rotation forces to the apparent speed sometimes too high and unrealistic ...
I spent a lot of time to refine the coefficients just looking for the best compromise ....
You could probably improve again ....


Can I ask do the objects point in the direction of travel  ?

I think the insects are spot on.....


Being able to point, to the ever,  in the direction of motion was another huge problem ...
When speeds are low, and unique to the movement within the swarm, the solution is simple: the roll angle, pitch and yaw setting "proportional to the relative velocity components in the three space" dimensions.
That's why the swarms of insects are more accurate!
For the birds it is complicated ...
At speeds within the flock must be added the speed of flight of the flock chasing other flocks.
The speed range becomes so extensive that finding a single coefficient that includes the value at an angle "that reproduces the reality", for me, it was hard.
There are still many times when the algorithm fails ...

*********************************************************

I realize that, at this point, or she could be justified in an obvious objection:

But, because you have published a model in which you admit the persistence of many defects ?? ???
Would not it be better to wait, study a little more, and publish when you were eliminated all these defects ?? ???
(Because it is just to find other more effective methods and these defects are definitely eliminated ...)

The reasons are many:

- The purpose of the model was to groped to reproduce the wonderful effects of the flocks in the sky.
It should be seen "from afar" and imperfections of the movement of the individual elements should be considered "almost irrelevant".

 - Construction of single bird (very low definition, fixed wings and textures just mentioned) defines the model order immediately: only group viewing.

- The models of the swarms of insects seemed good enough.

- Having found a way to enter a large number of objects in the scene at the same time it seemed to me, alone, worthy of publication.

- Finally, the most important reason.
The attempt to arouse interest with something pleasant (hopefully), the construction of other forms of life from someone of good modders following this forum.
Even the play guessing the principle of operation of the model could be a stimulus to increase the interest ....

I have always believed, and my conviction increases with time, which Outerra deserve to leave an important mark in the world of computer simulation.

Any effort and any contribution to his "beauty" (and therefore to its reputation in the computer world) or she could be a help to abbreviate the time of its completion.
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bomber

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2016, 09:41:40 am »

Nice explanation of the techniques used...

I agree 100% with you, I think it's very good and has generated some interest..

http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=628

Regards

Simon
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bomber

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2016, 11:23:42 am »

Andfly I understand your reasons for the techniques used in your example however would you be interested in adapting your code to work with ships and airplanes to create convoys or formations ?

I would expect the planes to be spawned in the air and your code give inputs into each planes JSBsim Autopilot properties which would then control the plane.

We could then stress test outerra with JSBsim running at different frequencies to see what it can and can't do.

Regards

Simon
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"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchell

andfly

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2016, 09:33:07 pm »

Andfly I understand your reasons for the techniques used in your example however would you be interested in adapting your code to work with ships and airplanes to create convoys or formations ?

I would expect the planes to be spawned in the air and your code give inputs into each planes JSBsim Autopilot properties which would then control the plane.

We could then stress test outerra with JSBsim running at different frequencies to see what it can and can't do.

Regards

Simon

The only way I know to bring together different models Outerra, and with the ability to exchange data with each other, is to use instances of the same model.
Practically they enter on the scene of the copies of the same model.
All these copies share the same command script that runs, in succession, by an instance behind the other.
In any of these performances you can be controlled the change in the value of some variables.
The instances that are running the script later, realizing that these variations can act accordingly.
The limitation of this method is that you can only work with identical models ...
(I used to Orcas and the flock of eagles)

To build realistic convoys of aircraft or ships should be able to communicate with each other even different models.

It should exist, between Outerra API, the ability for a model of "knowledge of the presence" of other models that are currently running, but ... I do not know him.
And then ... more ... there should be a way to exchange information between the various models and, that too, is unknown to me.

I am always waiting for, sooner or later, be made a few hints on Outerra API, from the developers ...
I realize that the engine is in constant evolution and operation of the existing APIs can not be guaranteed, because the functionality or she could be revolutionized by various APIs and improved ... and then some information may be considered confidential ...
So .... I'll continue to wait!

However, for now, with my knowledge, the project that you have proposed seems to me to be premature (unfortunately!).

I think Uriah is working on something like this ...
I am sure that will be able to surprise us !!!
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langdon

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Re: Swarms & Flocks
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 02:11:40 am »

Hi Andfly,

Love your work! It really adds 'life' to Outerra.

It is currently possible via the Plugin API for vehicles to communicate with each other.
It's far too complicated for me to explain here in a text post but in short..

You program a plugin.dll to accept 'registrations' from vehicles.
That is, when a vehicle is instanced it 'checks in' with the dll and is then able to communicate via  the dll with other vehicles.

Next  week I hope to release version 0.000001 (: of my multiplayer plugin.

You'll be able to open up the script on the vehicles I include and see how it works.
As I have it now.. you:

1.) 'Enter' a tower vehicle that I will include in an OTX file..
2.) when you enter that tower it spawns 3 aircraft automatically.
3.) These 3 aircraft pass there direction and position info to the dll
4.) the dll sends the info to a server
5.) the server sends the info to the other connected clients
6.) the dll gets  the info from the server and passes it to the vehicle objects.

So it should be fairly simple to just bypass all the server/client code and have the dll pass data between vehicles.

How are your C++ skills ? :)
L
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