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Author Topic: Procedurally assembled buildings?  (Read 792 times)

Lesnikus

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Procedurally assembled buildings?
« on: January 12, 2018, 09:16:25 am »

Recently a tweet was published, which shows a screenshot of the city. The scale is impressive:
https://twitter.com/outerradev/status/935907128140816384


Are they the same as in Bern: just simple boxes with textures? Or these buildings are procedurally generated together with the interiors, as in the picture below?
https://twitter.com/outerradev/status/828972309969043456


Is it worth expecting that in the next year or two in the engine will be added cities with procedurally generated detailed buildings with real windows, doors and the ability to go inside?

I was very intrigued by the second screenshot and I look forward to the appearance of cities consisting of such detailed buildings. The opportunity to enter each house is amazing! You just realize my childhood dream, when I dreamed of an ideal game, in which there is EVERYTHING. If such cities are added, the GTA will no longer be needed  ^-^
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:25:42 pm by Lesnikus »
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cameni

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 06:10:13 am »

This has got several stages. The first one is the analysis and extraction of shape data, together with all attributes that can be usable for the generator (like zones).

As an intermediate step we are using a best fit algorithm to populate the shapes and generate a global building dataset, using a pre-made building model collection. That means the buildings are rather simple now, but of course the goal is to replace these with ones generated by a procedural generator, able to render all the needed LODs from the available sparse data.

It would be a shame not to generate the interiors eventually too, although I wonder how quickly the dream of being able to enter every single one fades ... although I remember thinking that it would be great (when playing the Mafia game back then).
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2eyed

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 08:13:17 am »

This has got several stages. The first one is the analysis and extraction of shape data, together with all attributes that can be usable for the generator (like zones).

As an intermediate step we are using a best fit algorithm to populate the shapes and generate a global building dataset, using a pre-made building model collection. That means the buildings are rather simple now, but of course the goal is to replace these with ones generated by a procedural generator, able to render all the needed LODs from the available sparse data.

It would be a shame not to generate the interiors eventually too, although I wonder how quickly the dream of being able to enter every single one fades ... although I remember thinking that it would be great (when playing the Mafia game back then).
The dream would fade quickly, if all rooms looked the same (as it is, to some extend, with the current landscapes).
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Lesnikus

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 12:19:05 pm »

It would be a shame not to generate the interiors eventually too, although I wonder how quickly the dream of being able to enter every single one fades ...
Why does the dream fade? On that screenshot with procedurally assembled buildings, everything looks almost ready. Is it a problem with performance or something else?

As for the furniture, it is not necessary. Look at Arma 3- there all the buildings are empty, but everyone can enter. Players themselves fill houses with furniture in the mission editor, if they need it. The ability to enter each house is used in the gameplay of Arma 3: the ability to arrange a sniper position from any window or ambush in any apartment makes the gameplay more realistic, although the interiors look the same and do not have furniture. Furniture is good, but not necessarily.

The dream would fade quickly, if all rooms looked the same (as it is, to some extend, with the current landscapes).
In my opinion, this is not a problem. Much in Outerra at this stage is not perfect, but it improves with time. The number of templates for generating interiors can be increased in the future. Better yet, if tools become are available to add custom generating templates from modders (similar to adding 3D models).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:22:23 pm by Lesnikus »
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Jagerbomber

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 01:06:10 pm »

I don't see "the inside of buildings looking identical" as an issue either.  It's still better to have it than to not.

But if it's some sort of technical issue, then of course I wouldn't know anything about that.
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cameni

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 01:57:09 pm »

No I didn't mean a performance problem, just the variety of interiors being limited by algorithmic depth. But if you are primarily interested in it to extend the game play possibilities, then it may not matter that much.
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Jagerbomber

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 02:38:29 pm »

Yeah, I don't see lack of variety as more of a negative than having interiors is as a positive.

I mean, it can at least get colors or textures, right?


Now, it's probably a different beast, but I actually saw a GIF of a tech demo on Twitter the other day of a top-down (but 3D graphics) "dungeon" generator that was actually changing dimensions and changing/generating based on the changing dimensions in real-time.  The dungeon width and length would smoothly move outwards and inwards even with an actual controllable character in it.  Doors would be added and disappear, along with whole rooms, which would also expand and shrink (or at least the ones along the borders), and the rooms would start to fill with wooden boxes and barrels, but always leaving a minimum of 1 square/unit width for the character to move around in (with the top-down camera being fixed above the player).  But... this stuff is kind of old news, right?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 03:02:00 pm by Jagerbomber »
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2eyed

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2018, 02:48:09 pm »

Well, there are digital warriors and there are digital discoverer. I am the latter and I like variety most.
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Lesnikus

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 10:15:04 am »

No I didn't mean a performance problem, just the variety of interiors being limited by algorithmic depth. But if you are primarily interested in it to extend the game play possibilities, then it may not matter that much.

In that case, I do not see a problem. Please, please, please add them to Outerra!! :)) If you are in doubt, discard them. Identical interiors do not look beautiful, but it allows you to use them in gameplay purposes. For example, as in Arma 3 (ambush in buildings) or 7 Days to Die (search loot, collection of resources in houses). Besides this, the idea that I can enter any house is pleasant, even realizing that all houses are the same  inside. I agree with Jagerbomber: "It's still better to have it than to not."

I'm tormented by the question: when will cities, roads and other data from OpenStreetMaps be added to the Outerra engine, will they be available for those who bought Anteworld alpha? Can we see this on our computers? My doubts arose when I remembered that Anteworld, according to his concept, talks about the settling of an empty abandoned planet.

Well, there are digital warriors and there are digital discoverer. I am the latter and I like variety most.

I see no reason why this will interfere with the discovering of the world. The player can ignore the opportunity to enter buildings, as if they did not have interiors. For this player nothing changes.

I hate game restrictions. Outerra seems like a project that tries to get rid of any restrictions and prohibitions: go wherever you want, before you the whole Earth! Even if the interior generator will create the same interior space, I still like it more than the prohibition to enter buildings. Because I love freedom. I love Outerra for her striving to give freedom
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:56:51 am by Lesnikus »
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2eyed

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 01:23:01 pm »


I see no reason why this will interfere with the discovering of the world. The player can ignore the opportunity to enter buildings, as if they did not have interiors. For this player nothing changes.

I hate game restrictions. Outerra seems like a project that tries to get rid of any restrictions and prohibitions: go wherever you want, before you the whole Earth! Even if the interior generator will create the same interior space, I still like it more than the prohibition to enter buildings. Because I love freedom. I love Outerra for her striving to give freedom
With osm data billions of buildings around the globe can be rendered, but they will look generic and without additional data and artistic input it's probably not worth to enter them. Sure, every rivet of human's world could be modeled in a simulation, but where to stop?
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Jagerbomber

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2018, 03:01:22 pm »

And a repeating limited set of models with no interiors won't have a similar effect?  Yeah, it will.

If you are completely against entering, then don't enter?....
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cameni

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2018, 05:16:05 pm »

I'm tormented by the question: when will cities, roads and other data from OpenStreetMaps be added to the Outerra engine, will they be available for those who bought Anteworld alpha? Can we see this on our computers? My doubts arose when I remembered that Anteworld, according to his concept, talks about the settling of an empty abandoned planet.

Yes, the concept (of many) was of an abandoned world, but for that we still need the world data in a vector procedural form, and then add a procedural decay.



Obviously there will be different settings for an abandoned planet game and for a contemporary global simulator.
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Jagerbomber

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2018, 05:44:20 pm »

I'm still not sure how much I want to see Outerra/Anteworld as post-apocalyptic, but... We'll see?  =|
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Lesnikus

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Re: Procedurally assembled buildings?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 06:41:40 am »

Obviously there will be different settings for an abandoned planet game and for a contemporary global simulator.

Excellent! I'd like to take a walk around my city in Outerra.
P. S. I advise everyone not to waste time and to make their city in https://www.openstreetmap.org/, to put tags of the number of floors, material of building facades, shape of roofs, to place fences, garbage cans, paths, benches etc. Then you will be able to see your city as soon as it appears in Outerra . Tutorials: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.3
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_3D_buildings
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:49:03 am by Lesnikus »
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