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Author Topic: Hello and some questions  (Read 17039 times)

NAIMA

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Hello and some questions
« on: October 03, 2011, 04:05:31 am »

Hello , first of all congrats on your engine , seems to progress along nicely ...

second I would like to ask if you accept collaborators , or you need any 3d artists for world building , assets etc , if you have any plans for licensing it for game devs may be indie companies and what kind of support it could be provided in that way ... what game oriented features could be provided ... or if you are interested into the developing itself of the engine into a game demo or the like ...

another question is if you allow betatesters also to test uploaded maps , and custom handpaint or hand worked solutions like outputs from terragen , worldmachine , geocontrol 2 , vue or else ....

there will be any shaping inworld tools for terrain etc?

Will be able to support voxel sculpting in order to make more interesting terrain features like outruding surfaces and erosion systems?

Will there be any plan for dynamic fluid system like fluvial systems , erosions and other atmosferic effects interaction?

Nature cycles ? like flora fauna cycles in seasons , days  years etc?

interactive dynamic and dramatic changes in geology like earthquakes , tsunamis , tornadoes , meteor swarms etc?

AI systems for human or lively forms interaction ingame?

personally I think that a non oriented game toward only flight or drive simulations woudl be much better and more interesting ...

interesting applications could be RPGs, FPS , symulations ...

What features does this engine has and what are planned in future compared to modern game engines like Unreal , heroengine , frostbyte 2 , cryengine , rage engine etc?

thanks for your time and answers...

Freeman

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 05:41:59 am »

Hi NAIMA, see you here again, good question, In terrain render recognition there's another engine called I-Novae under the game title "Infinity: the quest for earth". I would love to hear cameni's opinion about this engine, and what's the advantage/disadvantage between I-Novae & Outerra from what you can see.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 05:44:49 am by Freeman »
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cameni

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 03:06:14 pm »

We plan to use the engine for our own production, but we are also open to license it, depending on the project and the developer. Ultimately we would like to turn it into a game platform that directly supports indie developers, where they could acquire an instance (realm) of the world and add their assets to turn it into a game of their choice, with the platform code taking care of distribution of world data etc.
But that's still a bit distant. Initially we want to make our demo game, a world colonization style. As for the collaboration, we are already working with a few skilled people that offered help in the form of models, characters etc, hopefully the results of this cooperation will show up soon. Our game should serve as a testing sandbox too, being able to import models and define vehicles. But until that's ready, we can try importing your models (the process has still some user-unfriendly steps in it) to see how it would look in the engine. We would actually like to find a designer who's capable to create models for the game, that would be consistent with the world and will give it a specific look.

Quote
another question is if you allow betatesters also to test uploaded maps , and custom handpaint or hand worked solutions like outputs from terragen , worldmachine , geocontrol 2 , vue or else ....
there will be any shaping inworld tools for terrain etc?
While our primary focus is to reconstruct the essence of Earth before the civilization, with tools that will be capable of creating the civilization layer atop of it, we are already working with people who use it to create custom lands - the ME-DEM project. So in the end there will be ability to create custom planets from user data, though it will be probably a different product from the base "earth engine" we've got now.
My secret goal is to create a planet maker where you'd be able to define continents, draw mountain ranges and major rivers, and a generator will be able to refine it down to the detail level of earth data, simulating erosion and other natural processes. It would enable you to create your own outline for the planet, and then refine parts of it which need to be specifically handled, but still have the rest of the world fully defined.

Quote
Will be able to support voxel sculpting in order to make more interesting terrain features like outruding surfaces and erosion systems?
Outerra uses lateral displacement to create outruding terrain, but the process is not controllable (yet). There's a possibility how this could work though - by applying a displacement mesh, that would take the control but still could leave the fine details on the normal refinement process.
Anyway, it will be an OT-specific process.

Quote
Will there be any plan for dynamic fluid system like fluvial systems , erosions and other atmosferic effects interaction?
Only as a part of the planet creator thing. The engine itself will use the resulting terrain and vector river databases.

Quote
Nature cycles ? like flora fauna cycles in seasons , days  years etc?
Planned, but it needs a lot of vegetation and ecotype models, won't be soon.

Quote
interactive dynamic and dramatic changes in geology like earthquakes , tsunamis , tornadoes , meteor swarms etc?
Hmm, didn't think about it yet. Probably wouldn't be worth the effort for games.

Quote
AI systems for human or lively forms interaction ingame?
That's game specific, but could use some support from the engine.

I-Novae is probably the closest engine to Outerra in the universe of engines, although the differences aren't small. They focus more on space and don't go that much into ground level detail, whereas our focus is shifted more towards the ground level detail and we won't cover the outer space initially. We also aren't fond of purely fractal generated worlds, as they are self-similar (much like the definition of fractals says) and can be pretty boring and unnatural. That's why we focus on the use of real or artificially modeled terrain data, at least until we can come up with multilayer algorithms capable of generating fractal planets that are realistic and interesting.

So, while there's a common overlapping area, both engines focus on different things.
Differences to other engines - well, there aren't many with support for spherical planetary bodies and really large terrains, procedural generation, pre-made worlds that are to be modded instead of plain level to be populated ..
Of course, the disadvantage is that procedural engines need custom tools and different approaches that may not suit all.
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Chaoss

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 06:23:20 pm »

Quote from: cameni
We plan to use the engine for our own production, but we are also open to license it, depending on the project and the developer. Ultimately we would like to turn it into a game platform that directly supports indie developers, where they could acquire an instance (realm) of the world and add their assets to turn it into a game of their choice, with the platform code taking care of distribution of world data etc.
But that's still a bit distant. Initially we want to make our demo game, a world colonization style. As for the collaboration, we are already working with a few skilled people that offered help in the form of models, characters etc, hopefully the results of this cooperation will show up soon. Our game should serve as a testing sandbox too, being able to import models and define vehicles. But until that's ready, we can try importing your models (the process has still some user-unfriendly steps in it) to see how it would look in the engine. We would actually like to find a designer who's capable to create models for the game, that would be consistent with the world and will give it a specific look.

This I do like the sound of, I'd love the world(s) to be "truly" massively multiplayer, I'm not sure how that would work on a bandwidth/server side of things, you'd need some pretty powerful servers
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:40:42 am by angrypig »
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NAIMA

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 09:24:31 pm »

  As for the collaboration, we are already working with a few skilled people that offered help in the form of models, characters etc, hopefully the results of this cooperation will show up soon. Our game should serve as a testing sandbox too, being able to import models and define vehicles. But until that's ready, we can try importing your models (the process has still some user-unfriendly steps in it) to see how it would look in the engine. We would actually like to find a designer who's capable to create models for the game, that would be consistent with the world and will give it a specific look.

what you mean by that , I mean consistent with the world and what specific look you mean ?  I am particularly interested in finding a good developing world for my "creative ideas " ...
   

   
My secret goal is to create a planet maker where you'd be able to define continents, draw mountain ranges and major rivers, and a generator will be able to refine it down to the detail level of earth data, simulating erosion and other natural processes. It would enable you to create your own outline for the planet, and then refine parts of it which need to be specifically handled, but still have the rest of the world fully defined.
thats very interesting  pretty much my workflow for a whole planet would be like fractal terrains , + world machine  atm but is impossible to make for superlarge worlds or planets , how handles the creation of a whole planet if the second one takes a huge load of time to create and refine detailed terrain , flows and so on for smaller resolution areas? woudl there be something similar to worldmachine tools to refine the world or is more like an output ( wrom worldmachine generated heightmaps ) receiver to place in ?


   Outerra uses lateral displacement to create outruding terrain, but the process is not controllable (yet). There's a possibility how this could work though - by applying a displacement mesh, that would take the control but still could leave the fine details on the normal refinement process.
Anyway, it will be an OT-specific process.
ingame engines like cryengine have this sort of painting tool to create off x y extrusions and then paint over to blend with the terrain , it allows the creation of more dramatic landscape landmarks etc...

Only as a part of the planet creator thing. The engine itself will use the resulting terrain and vector river databases.
Quote
interactive dynamic and dramatic changes in geology like earthquakes , tsunamis , tornadoes , meteor swarms etc?
Hmm, didn't think about it yet. Probably wouldn't be worth the effort for games.
A game I recently tried named from dust has an amazing incredible dynamic and real time fluid system that even interacts with the landscape eroding it , in lava flows , waterflows , tsunamis etc... something like that may be on larger scale woudl be possible or part of the project?
 

Quote
AI systems for human or lively forms interaction ingame?
That's game specific, but could use some support from the engine.
I meant more something like the radiant AI of bethesda for human behaviour on night day or long plan time behaviours.
 
Tought of other forms of transport eventually ingame like first and third person walk , specific animations and interaction with the environment like climbing , hiking , rafting , using boats and sail system , horse , or creature riding , may be ( flying creature) , so possibility to insert creatures and animations , skeletons and behaviour ...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 09:27:17 pm by NAIMA »
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cameni

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 04:36:29 am »

  As for the collaboration, we are already working with a few skilled people that offered help in the form of models, characters etc, hopefully the results of this cooperation will show up soon. Our game should serve as a testing sandbox too, being able to import models and define vehicles. But until that's ready, we can try importing your models (the process has still some user-unfriendly steps in it) to see how it would look in the engine. We would actually like to find a designer who's capable to create models for the game, that would be consistent with the world and will give it a specific look.
what you mean by that , I mean consistent with the world and what specific look you mean ?  I am particularly interested in finding a good developing world for my "creative ideas " ...
Well I mean that the models and the whole design should play nicely with how the world is being rendered, so that it all gives a consistent look (consistent with the world). Not all designers are capable or willing to use the style. And the specific look - we'd like the models to be characteristic for our game, identifiable with it. So the designer should be both creative and compatible with us.

Quote
thats very interesting  pretty much my workflow for a whole planet would be like fractal terrains , + world machine  atm but is impossible to make for superlarge worlds or planets , how handles the creation of a whole planet if the second one takes a huge load of time to create and refine detailed terrain , flows and so on for smaller resolution areas? woudl there be something similar to worldmachine tools to refine the world or is more like an output ( wrom worldmachine generated heightmaps ) receiver to place in ?
As I have said, these are two different things - the engine just takes the processed terrain and auxiliary data and renders it. The format of the data is optimized for planetary rendering, so the input data need to be processed by our tool (mapressor) in order to be usable. Mapressor currently takes your dataset and produces the output, taking roughly 1 hour on earth dataset. So at the moment you'd have to use Worldmachine or similar to create the data. The problem with these tools is that piecing a planet takes eons. Therefore I would like to create the planet maker that natively produces data in the format for the engine, and is implemented on GPU and using some novel techniques that allow automatic planet forming with manual override possible on all levels. But until then you are left with those other programs.

Quote
A game I recently tried named from dust has an amazing incredible dynamic and real time fluid system that even interacts with the landscape eroding it , in lava flows , waterflows , tsunamis etc... something like that may be on larger scale woudl be possible or part of the project?
Possible, yes. But it would need a lot of time, and we can't widen the scope of this indefinitely to cover everything - we would never finish it, if we were aiming at a comparative level of realism.
 
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NAIMA

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Re: Hello and some questions
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 05:34:21 am »

Good , thanks for all your answers... if you will open positions for collaborators I ll take a look , about the world would be nice to have climatic zones designable according to axis tilt , moons , speed rotation , volcanic activity and other planetary settings , plus a seasonal cycle would be cool as well ...