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[Fresh]

This idea of a 'world simulator' is finally becoming closer to reality and I'm so excited to see I'm not the only one who has been thinking about it for so long. I share McArcher's view..."My dream is that someday I will see a universal sim, that is made by all people in the world with physics like in real life".

Whatever project you guys have in mind, I hope you'll push forward and make it a reality.

As a life long fan of simulations, particularily air and more recently land, I've always hoped that someday the two would seamlessly merge, something similar to second life, but more based in a 'real world' environment. There could be various 'continents' representing different realities.

Something more of an 'earth' based simulator where people could be logged into the same space, doing different things in a high fidelity physics environment. If the Outerra engine could have similar physics to the'tricky truck' simulator, (http://www.gravitysensation.com/trickytruck) the results would be spectacular. Additionally, by allowing easy importation of cad file and other 3D assets, people could easily build virtual homes in the environment, bringing an element of sim city, etc... And multiplayer is key. As ZeosPantera pointed out, "Multi-player is however what outerra should really focus on. No point in simulating the earth and 2.2 billion km into space if it will be you alone. I have to think 50,000 people roaming around in the outerra world would still leave plenty of elbow room. Just break it into different dimensions if need be. I really am talking about world changing possibilities here."


Outerra reminds me a lot of one of my favorite games called Armed Assault2, a sequel to the 'operation flashpoint' series. I have been of fan since first trying the demo many years back. ARMA2 is a war simulator powered by the virtuality game engine and looks quite good. My favorite aspect of the game is flying helicopters. Unfortunately, the game's cockpits and features aren't in great detail, but that's to be expected. Anyway, the incredible aspect of that game is the open environment which allows to fly, boat or drive within the same space in a very beautiful natural environment (with cities from time to time).

Outerra looks to have some serious potential as a great flight sim, train sim, ship sim and even a race car sim. Can't wait to see the demo, keep up the good work.
 

[TankBo]

Hi guys,

I've been following Outerra's progress for many months now and as this thread shows up some quite interesting but also alarming postings, I now feel like throwing in my 2 cents. ;-)

I am a developer myself with a high interest in dynamic game environments and would like to share my thoughts of what kind of game would really work in my opinion.

Nowadays we probably have products for all different kind of areas. Some are more realistic, some are more fun, some look brilliant, some look bad. But there're also some products that are just revolutionary. And when you look at those, you will mostly find one aspect that brought in the success: Being able to modify the environment, to bring in your own fantasy and creative genius.

A very recent and successful example is a tiny game called "Minecraft". I bet the majority of you guys have heard from it or even played/bought it (minecraft.net). It started as a pure sandbox game (well, it wasn't even a game in the past) where you could place blocks of different materials in an infinite world. Yes, this is definitely NOT groundbreaking, but it had an immense success. In my opinion that is because players have the possibility to change the environment how they like it do be (as most as the engine supports it) *together*.

Okay, back to Outerra land: The postings from the developers that show some "marketing ideas" are on one side very exciting but also alarming. You should definitely choose the "open" way. Bring in a toolbox and let the users decide what they want to build with it. This doesn't mean to release the engine as Open Source (even if I think that it's the only way how software can work, but because we don't live in an ideal world, it's just a dream ), but do everything to NOT get in the way of users who want to extend a world they'd love to build.

Sure, do an "Outerra Store", but leave the option to be not forced to use it. As an user, I'm not interested in getting limited in my creativity. When I see an engine *would be* capable of doing things I'd like to do and I can't because of dumb licensing or marketing stuff, then that's given away success. Just be fair, charge for something and give it away, let the users decide what to do with it.

Of course this leads us to another region, namely to make one's bread. And this is an area I'm often facepalming in because companies seem to think that the majority of their possible users are evil, and a product wouldn't pay off if it was of an "open-minded" nature. Again, just be fair. For example sell the basic client for a relatively low price. It's worth it, because the threshold of when a customer really becomes a such will be much much lower, thus leading to higher sell amounts. On the other side of the road, namely game hosters, can be asked to pay up much more, since they're making money themselves with the product, so it's fair to ask just for more.

The same goes to add-on developers who want to make their living with the Outerra basis: They want to earn money, so they can be charged, which is just fair. But always leave the freedom to users who want to be creative with Outerra. What's possible for the game hoster, add-on creator or whoever may contribute to Outerra from a commercial point of view, should be available to the "just for fun" user, without any limitations.

A side-effect, which is by the way unvaluable, is the immense public interest you're generating. People telling their buddies "Hey look, I got this Outerra thing, we can do anything we'd like to do with it, and it even doesn't cost much!" are probably much better than ones saying "Ok cool, Outerra looks fantastic, but it's only starting to make fun when you buy X, Y and Z from the Outerra store. I would like to create an own would, but then I'd have to pay $8,000 for a server license. And I've got this brilliant idea, but Outerra is not designed to plug it in or distribute it so that many others can have fun with it.".

So, generally speaking, take the Minecraft idea to a MUCH bigger level. Leave the freedom for creative prople, don't throw in limitations, be fair in pricing.

Regarding the world simulator -- actually what this topic is about, I'm btw. sorry being off-topic here, but because others brought those facts to the table, I felt like replying -- I think it's a brilliant idea. Outerra should be nothing more than a toolbox that can be used for specific tasks. However it must be guaranteed that compatibility is always given, so modules can merge. If that can be accomplished (which is hard as hell, I know what I'm talking about), then well, you will have the greatest "game" ever created.

Please keep it up, your work is just fantastic. And I really appreciate your contact to interested users in this forum (but I also bet you can take advantages out of it, since all the opinions and ideas support Outerra in the end).

Greetings!

[cameni]

Hi TankBo, thanks for your post.
Can't say I agree completely, or better said, I think that reaching the versatility of Minecraft in this environment will be neither easy nor cheap. What I mean is that Minecraft uses a few simple rules and easy world definition, but you can't easily extend it, say to a spherical world, or to use it with finer structures without encountering performance problems. I know you didn't mean that Outerra should use the same principles as Minecraft, I'm just saying that Minecraft occupies one island in the space of realizable things, and there's no direct route to the place where an Outerra application would be usable with the same degree of creative possibilities.

Outerra is more comparable to FS in terms of how the world is managed. Now in FS you have the possibility to mod the world, yet for obvious reasons only a marginal part of users can mod to their own satisfaction, because it's not an easy process. The question is, can the world building be made easy as in Minecraft with reasonable performance? If it can, I bet it won't be easy. There are engines with extensive tool set aimed at world building, yet not everyone can create. But developing the tools took quite some time and worfkforce.

So I think reaching the same level of freedom in creativity won't be that easy. With procedural approach we are taking huge steps, but it won't be sufficient for everything. There are also other aspects of free world building that aren't so well thought - like multiplayer vs. wreckers of everybody's fun.

But yes, we want to converge towards that goal, but I think it will need several iterations of more constrained games and extensive tools development to get there.

[ZeosPantera]

Well in all fairness. My vision for OT has always been one similar to Tanks...

Here is the whole world beautifully rendered and empty. What mod do you want to load?

So for example you can select the purchased flight sim mod that comes with its own custom air physics and professionally made models and rock out on that mods networked servers.

Or load the free, open source flight mod and do all the same things with just a slightly less polished feel.

I look at it in sim racing terms. If someone asks what racing sim do you want there are only 2 you SHOULD have rFactor and iRacing.

rFactor is a game from 2005 that has had little updated by the creators. BUT the game was designed in a way which has allowed modders to generate an immense collection (http://www.rfactorcentral.com) of award winning FREE mods (cars/tracks/plugins) that still 6 years after its release make it a must have today.

Now iRacing on the other hand is the new boy on the block with NO community mods allowed. It costs money to JOIN.. then it costs money PER CAR and money PER TRACK. So you have a choice of maybe 12 different series all professionally modeled, proper sound recorded cars with proper sorted physics models to choose from (if you buy them all AND get your license points and safety rating up high enough) and you can race with the other members on iRacings servers which are the only servers available. Tracks are also all laser scanned and said to be accurate to the CM (I laugh as repaving a track happens too often for that to matter.) But past all the money it costs it has shaped up to be the best race sim for people who want to race.

I can see a parallel with the OT "engine" (engine being used here with the word graphical missing).  OT is not a game engine. It just makes the world pretty. A real engine would have developed its own physics and sound and lighting engines (is lighting coming from OT? I forget). So in that sense the OT team would need to depend on some Corporate interests to purchase and have their own developmental team for the rest . OR develop all the other stuff by themselves and try to get it to the point where a community can support itself with content.

Its a long road in either direction.

[cameni]

No doubt about the ability to make mods - it's a must. I was talking about achieving the level of user creativity comparable to Minecraft. That, IMO, will be hard to reach.

[TankBo]

Of course you're right cameni, and like you said, I didn't mean that Outerra is anyhow comparible to Minecraft regarding to the target features, audience and a lot more. It's clear that you won't be digging for coal or other materials like in Minecraft, or building stuff out of blocks. I was just comparing the nature of Minecraft to a possible one for Outerra, namely to enable interested people to join the Outerra party without limitations (i.e. fair conditions).

You also said that the target group for creating stuff for Outerra is slightly different, and I also agree to that. Whereas Minecraft is armed at gamers that can easily modify all the stuff in the game itself (which is the whole game's goal ), Outerra won't be like that from what I've read so far. You will need developers to fill Outerra's world -- at least initially, because developers could be establishing modules (I dislike the terms "mod" and "add-on", because I think they don't fit) that make the whole process either easier for not-so-involved people or create modules for specific tasks that can then be used with ease (like a traffic simulation thing that comes with an easy-to-use user interface and toolbox).

However, I am sure that you guys will fiddle out something good and productive for creative people. My personal opinion is that such a product would produce an immense impact.

[SpaceFlight]

For example, is the option of having different vehicle classes at disposal in a single world more/less important than the highest possible fidelity of a single simulator type? If you say less, should we try to compete with other players just because of the unique properties Outerra engine has, or it would be more reasonable to focus on the non-covered segment of multi-sims and boost the fidelity in successive steps later?

Hi,

I just discovered the Outerra engine today and I am impressed by its potential.

To answer the question:
I would say focus on the segment of multi-simulators first and boost the fidelity later
and make sure that you do not go bankrupt or anything like that in the process.
That would be a shame.

The engine reminds me of this game ("Infinity Universe"),
but I do not know if it will ever be released:

and this game ("Nexus 2"), it was never released :

Off topic:
I would like to see a spacesimulator in the future with this engine and my question would be:
is it possible to build an entire solar systems with planets with it,
so that you can theoretically travel from one to the next and vice versa
without loading screens (seamless transition between them) ?
Additionally I would hope to see cities at one point,
with buildings that can be entered and explored fully (e.g. skyscrapers, multi storey buildings, etc).
Would that be possible with this engine ?

Cheers, best of luck and keep up this interesting project.  

SF

[ZeosPantera]

I got this one.

is it possible to build an entire solar systems with planets with it,
so that you can theoretically travel from one to the next and vice versa

yes. That has been discussed and it is possible, but not until earth is finished.

without loading screens (seamless transition between them) ?

there are no loading screens in outerra

Additionally, I would hope to see cities at one point,
with buildings that can be entered and explored fully (e.g. skyscrapers, multi storey buildings, etc).

That is not a plan to be implemented by the Outerra developmental team. However if another company or interest were to create the buildings in a compatible format with proper LOD than they could be implemented in this engine.

[C. Shawn Smith]

Don't forget Fractalopolis  AFAIK, the only city currently in Outerra Earth, although we haven't ever seen it up close.

[Grind and Click]

I didnt see this before i posted in the ideas thread.

But i definitely think a multi-cross over vehicle system is the way to go, i mean after all it can be improved over time and im sure a post-medium effort could be made for the initial time being on all levels, if differing companies worked especialy on each part.

[Alexander_Kulikov]

Hi Guys!

Happened to see your work, please accept congratulations, it's fantastic!

We would like to see from you aviation simulator based on your engine.

What I see now, that's fine, good luck with your work!

Sincerely.

[Skyknight]

I know it's a pretty late reply but you can focus on a multi-sim, I mean different sim engines in a suite or each sim as a standalone, you can release one by one and then when you have the multi-sim you can release the suite.

Also if I can help in anyway providing models in different formats, I would be more than happy, I would like to use your engine in a movie instead of a game

[cameni]

A movie? What kind of movie would that be?

[DarkDXZ]

Movies in Outerra?
ME WANT!


Err...Seriously, but what movie? Not whole plot, but at least genre, please...?

[Skyknight]

Something between adventure, action and sci-fi  :3