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[tsgucci]

Hello all,

This is my first post, so let me introduce myself. My name is Sándor Tar one of the co-founder of LHSimulations. LHSimulations were founded in 2009, the main purpose was to design major hungarian airports for the well known flight simulators. Currently we have 3 freeware airports done for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004, FSX and X-Plane. LHSimulations was founded as official company this year, based in Hungary and enters to the payware FS market soon. If you are interested visit our website : http://www.lhsimulations.hu/?lang=en

We are monitoring the progress of Outerra since long time. We are amazed by the engine capabilites and are very interested by the further possibilities of Outerra.

As we work for three flight simulator platform we do know how important what kind of graphical engine is used.

Of course the big question who or what software will use the new engine. Of course as a flight simulator enthusiast I wish a good flight simulator taking the outstanding OT engine. The next question is, if a new FS platform will be created, is the user customized content allowed or not (see Microsoft Flight, which brakes the tradition and does not allow any user content in their software). Licence issues should be considered.
Let's say the above mentioned questions are answered with positive. Next short but hard question: HOW?

Let's imagine LHSimulations decided we want to make available our Pécs LHPP airport scenery (check here : http://www.lhsimulations.hu/?page_id=154&lang=en) for Outerra to see the possibilities of OT, the converting procedure and last but not least the market demand.
This scenery was designed based reference photos taken on-site. We used orthophoto for the ground. The 3D objects were created with gmax (freeware version of 3D Studio Max) with a special plugin for Flight Simulator (FS2004 or FSX). All custom objects are designated with a unique GUID number. There is one position file which tells to the simulator which object (GUID) should be placed on what coordinates, altitude, heading, pitch etc. Flight Simulator has also some basic terrain data, but it can be "overwrited" with user content. So if you have a more detailed source for terrain for a certain area it can be used. In the airport we use a so called flatten, which makes the designated area flat. This was needed because FS does not support sloped runways and such (I know some version do, but long story). Below our photoarea there is a so called AFCAD file. This file is meant to keep the information about the aiport, where are the runway, taxiways, aprons if they are grass of concrete surface etc.
Some objects have animation. Some objects are visible under certain condition.
So creating a custom scenery and to be able to add custom scenery needs a lot of information.
There are even more question. For example weather. Wind, visibility, clouds, fog, precipitation etc. Seasons: winter, autumn etc.
Lights. If you can add custom light sources, like landing lights on the aircraft.

Question is if the convert tool you mentioned what format it can use, what settings can be used etc.


I know it is too much question now, but I believe if the engine will be able to manage all this you will success.

I'm looking forward to receive any opinion, feedback, question.

[cameni]

In my opinion the most problematic part is the use of ortophoto for the ground. OT cannot use orthophoto, as it cannot be refined automatically into vegetation and ground level detail. For OT we need to vectorize the data: creating polygons covering areas of one type (fields, grass, forests ...), assigning the type and then importing it into OT. The first part could be done in OSM, we plan to have an importer from OSM once there is support for vector land classes.

[traumstrand5]

Hello Sándor Tal!

First of all I want to express my congratulations and a big THANK YOU for your great efforts to contribute some flightsim add-ons for Hungary.
Much appreciated!
I have been flying around FSX for some years by now and still enjoy it very much. But honestly said – as so many other “simmers” out there I am really wishing for and dreaming of something “different” when I think about “simulating the world for flying” than what is currently available. There is a lot of great stuff there available – and yet… I think it can be done differently – … far better actually.
As so many others, I am also tired of the limitations of FSX and moreover – I thoroughly want to support the idea of generating something like a “world-simulator” for all various platforms. And this is what Outerra may one day become – besides the fact that it just looks really, really awesome even by now!
That’s why I also landed here as well and that’s why I purchased and downloaded the tech-demo of Outerra.

There is a topic here in the forums where ideas and suggestions about what a flightsim should offer within the boundaries of Outerra are being discussed!
Maybe you have read through it already anyways, but if not, then you might find this interesting and actually add your views and ideas there as well: http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.msg10870#new

I furthermore really want to encourage you to follow the road you have taken!
I would very much appreciate it, if LHsimulations releases an airport scenery add-on for Outerra.
It does not need to be perfect at first, but should certainly show the potential of this engine!
And that’s were I will now put in Cameni’s post from above and your previews post here together a little bit:
After You have enough overview about what the Outerra engine will offer for an implementation of add-ons, please go ahead and create!
And I think there is a great world ahead of us!
For instance:
You have mentioned flattened runways.
As we are all aware of: Flattened runways are common and genuine within FS9 and FSX – but they are not in the “Real World”!
Now wouldn’t it be just real amazing to finally (!) have sloped runways?
Outerra is still in its early days, but if this is being taken care of from the beginning, then it might become reality!
I know X-Plane10 offers sloped runways, but sometimes they appear to be very strange. So I guess it’s not that simple. And yet, I am sure it can be achieved! Maybe not 100% perfect but at least very good and certainly convincing enough that it feels real when being there in a plane (As you have also mentioned: Even some nice add-ons for FSX can do this already!)
Sure: It would still require something like AFCADS.
But also here: Why not generating up-to-date “AFCADS” for Outerra.
I know: Getting the data from thousands of airports from all over the globe altogether is a massive undertaking. But it is certainly nothing that can not be achieved in a reasonable time and under reasonable effort! And let’s imagine for a short moment how fast it could actually be achieved once enough flightsim enthusiasts would join Outerra!
And let’s not forget: It does not to be here all at once and in first place!
Instead: Starting with one specific area of any choice would – if done with proper care and some “as-high-as-possible-quality-standard” – certainly be enough in the beginning!

Or:
Orthophotography – I am aware of the fact that this is state of the art within flightsimming currently – but honestly said:
Although I think it looks quite good, I also have serious doubts if this is the best possible way of representing/reproducing the “real world’s surface” in a virtual one, such as Outerra will be.
Photoreal textures just appear very odd whenever you fly down to low. I know, we know …
They are also not the best thing for various dynamic light-effects or shadows.
So why not trying out something new?
New ground-textures, new ground-objects and/or whatever it will take to offer some “as real as it gets” replica of the world within Outerra!
I just realise I start dreaming again. Therefore one final sentence here for the moment:

Keep on with your enthusiasm, keep it alive and vivid!
Outerra is still in its early stages, but constantly progressing:
On the one side that means that there are still a lot of uncertainties,
but on the other hand it also means that there are still almost endless possibilities remaining to be opened, just waiting to be taken up by someone and to become reality!
And now I will check out your homepage and take a look at your certainly great work!
Best Greetings!
 

[tsgucci]

Hi!

Thanks for you post! I agree with your comments.

I'll check the thread you mentioned. Looks interesting.

There are a hell of questions but you are correct we have to progress with small steps. As soon the convert tool will be available, we will convert some objects and see what can be done.

[traumstrand5]

Hi!

Thanks for you post! I agree with your comments.

I'll check the thread you mentioned. Looks interesting.

There are a hell of questions but you are correct we have to progress with small steps. As soon the convert tool will be available, we will convert some objects and see what can be done.

Hello again!
I was just on my way to leave the forums for now ( as I am heading into some longer weekend  ) - but befor eI left I noticed your reply here and in between I found another - not that long, but maybe a little informative topic for you here:
http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=935.msg10881#new

Indeed: So much things here and all (almoat totally) new! But it's great to see so many great people around here really trying to look into it all and move it on forward!

When I am back from holiday I will certainly check in here again as soon as possible!
And I will certainly give some feedback to your sceneries at your forum then (as soon as i have installed it!)
Best greetings again!

[Fabo.sk]

So nice to see you here... and for some reason I always thought you were called Tamás..

Never mind that... looking forward to seeing LHSim in OT.

[KelvinNZ]

In my opinion the most problematic part is the use of ortophoto for the ground. OT cannot use orthophoto, as it cannot be refined automatically into vegetation and ground level detail. For OT we need to vectorize the data: creating polygons covering areas of one type (fields, grass, forests ...), assigning the type and then importing it into OT. The first part could be done in OSM, we plan to have an importer from OSM once there is support for vector land classes.

I really think that Outerra is a plausible world rendering engine and that i think with the right data and placement of that data onto the world would provide the illusion that the world is real enough without the need to ortho imagery. This is unless photoreal textures like trees, leaves, fields, hills, snow etc... will be used. Although, this sounds like more of a capability to overlay photos ontop of the ground to put it simply.