Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Grind and Click]

Would there be too many legal, copyright etc problems with after Outerra being released, there being a free for all in user added content that then becomes part of the game as long as it met a certain standard of quality and accuracy to the vehicles (or whatever was being portrayed) performance, and didnt interfere with any copyright issues, while meeting the developers taste or view of the game?

Although i suppose theres one thing to mod a plane for lets say ArmA and then to mod a sim level vehicle properly.

Maybe this could be in another part of the game in a different way?

What is the scope for player made additions of any kind becoming part of a game like this if it met all the above standards?

[cameni]

Well, there surely will be legal & copyright problems if the platform automatically replicates models and stuff when players upload it. Even if the player buys the model, he usually does not have the right to distribute it. There are certain provisions when it might work, for example the models that we've got allow us to modify and distribute them in our custom format that doesn't allow exporting it back to a well known format, to avoid users modifying it and releasing as their own (without license). In theory this could be used by the users too - if we release a one-way conversion tool, allowing users to only upload the converted models. Mind you, the license still needs to explicitly allow for the distribution.

Legal problems are to be expected anyway, so there will be a clause should put the responsibility on the users. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible though.

As for the quality and adequacy of the custom content - I assume there will be also custom realms, managed by people who acquire the realm (trying to achieve a certain goal in modeling the environment). So anyone making a game and allowing custom modifications & developments will be able to evaluate and filter the submissions, optionally adjusting some game-related parameters.
Say, someone submits a tuned truck: the developer may specify an in-game price, fuel consumption, power etc, to make it playing nicely with the game itself.

[ZeosPantera]

My hope is that when the OT is up and running fully as a game a separate site will be up to host addons that are both user created and pro-created (lol). For example maybe a flight sim company wants to sell you a package that has modified flight physics and 15 custom and licensed models. You can BUY that mod and use it in OT. The other side of the coin is a dedicated user group could release their own custom models (most likely not licensed) and use the standard OT flight physics and would be free.

I use rFactor's mod community as a reference. The original game came with say 20 cars in 4-5 packs. I installed the lite version with only one car and track taking up ~250MB. My rFactor folder is currently 66 GB. All mod's made for free by the community. Some good, some bad but all built with love and dreams of popularity. The same and more should be possible in OT.

I have heard only one case of legal issues with a mod community releasing a car that wasn't licensed but it was just dismissed since once a free mod is in the community there is no point in bringing attention to it. If ferrari didn't want their cars modeled and put in games by users they should make uglier cars http://img7.mediafire.com/6fd4bc8c60ba7e3ff61b82b0356acbd8a6dbda6843a4d54b80db3a7ccd3ed6566g.jpg

[Grind and Click]

Well, there surely will be legal & copyright problems if the platform automatically replicates models and stuff when players upload it. Even if the player buys the model, he usually does not have the right to distribute it. There are certain provisions when it might work, for example the models that we've got allow us to modify and distribute them in our custom format that doesn't allow exporting it back to a well known format, to avoid users modifying it and releasing as their own (without license). In theory this could be used by the users too - if we release a one-way conversion tool, allowing users to only upload the converted models. Mind you, the license still needs to explicitly allow for the distribution.

Legal problems are to be expected anyway, so there will be a clause should put the responsibility on the users. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible though.

As for the quality and adequacy of the custom content - I assume there will be also custom realms, managed by people who acquire the realm (trying to achieve a certain goal in modeling the environment). So anyone making a game and allowing custom modifications & developments will be able to evaluate and filter the submissions, optionally adjusting some game-related parameters.
Say, someone submits a tuned truck: the developer may specify an in-game price, fuel consumption, power etc, to make it playing nicely with the game itself.

By copyright i mean, if i mod a M16 into a game, and then it goes into the developer made game that sells for money, does that mean the company are liable to Colt and should pay them money? Or does it depend on each item, gun, plane, car, boat, anything's particular legal standpoint and then thats where the complications are?

Custom realms, wont that be hard to fill out the world if someone has their own planet? But i guess i forget were talking at a engine level here and not a developed game level, i suppose i shouldnt assume this will be used for solely MMO's etc.

But yeah i wouldnt mind your last paragraph being the case.

[cameni]

By copyright i mean, if i mod a M16 into a game, and then it goes into the developer made game that sells for money, does that mean the company are liable to Colt and should pay them money? Or does it depend on each item, gun, plane, car, boat, anything's particular legal standpoint and then thats where the complications are?

So you mean the rights to use brand names. Well, someone must acquire the rights allowing them to use it in the game. Alternatively you don't use the original names and symbols.

Zeos, the problem here is that this will be somewhat different from a modding community. Nobody goes after the moders because there are no money in it. However, if the game specifically supports and encourages creation of custom models and their inclusion in game, assigning attributes and making it available to others, something that would be really cool from player's viewpoint, then we can easily become target of lawyers that would go after a company, if it doesn't have its back covered somehow.

Custom realms, wont that be hard to fill out the world if someone has their own planet? But i guess i forget were talking at a engine level here and not a developed game level, i suppose i shouldnt assume this will be used for solely MMO's etc.

I'm sure there will be enough teams wanting to mod their own planet. The advantage is that the planet exists in its natural state and you are modding it.

[ZeosPantera]

if the game specifically supports and encourages creation of custom models and their inclusion in game, assigning attributes and making it available to others

I think what your saying is all models created for outerra would only be available with distribution through the game maker (ie Brano Kemen) and therefore you are responsible? So I could not make a model and distribute it in mod form on another site or direct download and get it into OT for myself and others to download and use?

ISI(rFactor Company) encourages and supports the creation of custom models and gives support to easily include it in-game. But they have no part in the actual hosting of it or implementation. They created the base game and everything else is out of their control.

How is Outerra going to be different?

[cameni]

I was imagining that we could have the distribution integrated. With the game being global, when you import your Corvette, nobody can see it until they load the exact model with parameter table etc. So what I'm supposed to see when I visit NY, heading to place where Zeos's supposed to be now? Some generic box? .. no, I was imagining OT would automatically sync the models and data needed. If the only obstacle for this functionality is the legal situation in current pre-apocalyptic world, that really *&%@#^ me off. :/

It would be also managing the in-game rights: say Aerosoft develops an aircraft, selling it to some players. Other players should see the aircraft (it's also an advertisement of a kind), meaning that the game has to replicate the models, but they won't be able to pilot them unless they obtain a license from the addon developer. After that, the game will transfer the simulation code to the user - before that the model works as a black box, physically.

[ZeosPantera]

Your system is the correct one. And Getting %&%()*($$ off at legal sh!t is part of game development. This system would bring an interesting scenario to the game world. Poor people that can't afford a private jet in real life also could not afford the model, but they could see it and want it.. JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!!

[cameni]

This system would bring an interesting scenario to the game world. Poor people that can't afford a private jet in real life also could not afford the model, but they could see it and want it.. JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!!

LOL, exactly
I'm just wondering if stealing should be made possible then, maybe with some real-life consequences too

[SpaceFlight]

It would be also managing the in-game rights: say Aerosoft develops an aircraft, selling it to some players. Other players should see the aircraft (it's also an advertisement of a kind), meaning that the game has to replicate the models, but they won't be able to pilot them unless they obtain a license from the addon developer. After that, the game will transfer the simulation code to the user - before that the model works as a black box, physically.

Interesting system.
I guess an other question would be, what kind of an agreement the developer of the addon aircraft (for example Aerosoft) has with the corporation that builds the real planes (for example General Dynamics).
If General Dynamics allows Aerosoft to make the plane visible to other people in a game environment, then I guess there would be no problem for Outerra.
In the Microsoft flight simulator X multiplayer mode, you can see other peoples planes, even if they are addon planes like the F16 from Aerosoft. It seems like the same situation, you can see the plane, but you can not pilot it as long as you dont purchase it.
I dont know though, if Microsoft is paying Aerosoft or General Dynamics extra to make this visibility possible in their simulation.