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[bada]

hello!

first post here so don't be harsh with me :-)

first of all, i'd like to say i'm not a programmer or not even a decent 3d modeller so there are a lot of explenations i do not understand  in several "technical" posts but anyway i'd like to ask several questions about the roads/cities modelling and other things.

-The way it is now it's rather time consumming to build cities or even small villages, especially the roads if one would like to position them on their real life position.
To make the things easier, would be there ,in the future, a possibility of applying a temperary Layer on a region, from google-earth or a real map for exemple and be able to set the roads/buildings using this temp layer as guide and all of this from "above" (90°) pitch, the small details correction on the roads or buildings would be done afterwards in close view on ground level view.
This way you could build large areas rather fast.

Surface texturing : what will be the possibility to change ground textures, as for exemple, the desert areas, can we do it manually now or is this feature blocked right now?

-Terrain corrections: exemple st-nazaire in france, it was an uboot shipyard in WW2 but with the actual terrain in OT, this can't be rebuild due to the terrain/see not beeing correct.
 will there be a tool to make manual modifications/corrections to the terrain?

thank you

[cameni]

Terms of use of Google Maps specifically forbid using the maps to create data for navigation, so it may be problematic here. But importing existing data from OpenStreetMap would be a better option anyway.

Textures - the way it's going to be implemented is described here - http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=1420.0

Terrain corrections: exemple st-nazaire in france, it was an uboot shipyard in WW2 but with the actual terrain in OT, this can't be rebuild due to the terrain/see not beeing correct.
 will there be a tool to make manual modifications/corrections to the terrain?

Terrain data aren't final, especially when it comes to the shorelines. But there will be also a way to adjust them using vector data, similarly to how roads can modify the elevation, but using polygons.

[bada]

thanks for your reply cameni.
so, if i understand correctly, if i'd like to build a WW2 city/village/airfield for exemple and build the roads as they were in 1944 for exemple, i will have to first rebuild them in openstreetmaps and then import the whole data into OT. Did i understand your explaination correctly? 

[cameni]

Well there are basically two options:

• create the roads with the built-in tools
• import vector data from somewhere else

It doesn't have to be the OSM, but if you are going to create something from existing old maps or photos you need to vectorize it first, and it would be a good idea to do it in some program where you can easily edit and fix it later. The only disadvantage is that compared to the built-in tools, imported roads will have to be fixed in OT, as there will be minor inconsistencies that only show up in OT in detail.

But, technically speaking, it would be possible to create a plugin that allows one to use 3rd party maps and create road points upon clicking in the map window.

[deathevor]

There are* or the will be second option to import vector data?

*is

[cameni]

Vector data importer will have its API that will make it possible to write custom importers.

[deathevor]

So currently there's no way to import vector roads?

What about the object positioning? After importing and placing 3d model in Outerra, is it possible to correct its coordinates from any file (for more precise obj position)?

Would be nice to have an option for automatic placement for geo-location models from sketchup.

[cameni]

Currently there's no import yet.

What about the object positioning? After importing and placing 3d model in Outerra, is it possible to correct its coordinates from any file (for more precise obj position)?

Hmm, how would this work? How would you tie a 3d model placed in OT with some record in a file? That would require some sort of identification.

[deathevor]

To tell truth - I'm not sure how SketchUp and Google earth do it.
Looks like sketch file can hold models pivot coordinates and orientation (in earth coordinates).

Just in case if you didn't met with this option -
(In my case I get geo-location first and build model on it. )
So when The model is suggested to Google earth - it is positioned already.

In case of outerra, would be nice to create a place for storing geodata - probably as a metafile (txt file) to easy modify it.
Would be nice to find out where Sketch model holds it, for easy extraction. In other cases user have an option to write it by hand (or other options).

So example:

have 2 files:

1) Building.DAE
2) Building.TXT (metadata file)

Importing such model in Outerra, if importer sees metadata file it could offer a checkbox to use it.
If checked, the model positions itself automatically.

If not - then user does it himself as he does now.

[deathevor]

Sorry, went a bit to far. That was about importing.

Now about already imported objects. And 2 options here:

1) Unique Models (like Eiffel Tower) - user has made model, imported in Outerra and positioned it correctly.
So he shares this model with other Outerianians. Now, it will make every user who downloaded it to position it again.
And in case of multiplier it will make a huge mess. As well as if you had to reinstall Outerra, you loose all your effort used to position all objects (and it could be thousands).
So storing position and orientation for unique objects would be good option. Especially for sharing.
In this case the model could have it's own geo-location file in folder.

2) Same model instances used to make a city - User downloaded, crated a default building, that he copies and positions to make a city.
It would be nice to have a file that stores position,orientation and scale of all objects.

This file is not tied to any model, as it can contain loads of different models. And probably should be stored in separate folder like - "Locations" (or settlements).

This file would look like:

model: building.pkg
 (Matrix3 Values) --instance 1
 (Matrix3 Values) --instance 2
 .....
model: citadel.pkg
 (Matrix3 Values) --instance 1
 (Matrix3 Values) --instance 2
 etc.


So to share a full city - used can only share used models and location file.

 
 

[cameni]

Well, I thought you wanted something different.
When objects are inserted in the world, their position is marked in our structures. If we were making something like Google Earth, these would be stored on the server and replicated to the users.

[deathevor]

Storing on server means - everyone have the same world.
I've suggested few different approaches and the last one gives possibility to create old, future and imaginary scenes (custom scenes) with possibility of sharing them.

So "in your structures" is it possible to access this data (positions and rotations) from outside of Outerra?
Is it text file?

[cameni]

No, server could of course support multiple worlds. Or custom servers holding "layers" and you'd subscribe to them.

Our structures are optimized for async loading and spatially pre-indexed, and the files are binary not text. It would be better to add ability to create and enable/disable layers where your edits go, and those layers could be exported/imported as a single zip file.

[deathevor]

Right, Layers
The "locations" I've described - are Layers.