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Author Topic: tree colouring  (Read 12124 times)

KelvinNZ

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tree colouring
« on: April 21, 2012, 07:26:44 pm »

Will Outerra provide the correct colouring for trees around the globe? And will blue marble be able to correctly depict this? If not would it help to have photos?
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ZeosPantera

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 01:23:20 am »

Well getting all* the trees programed to be procedural should come first.

* all is a hell of a lot. http://www.tree-pictures.com/tree_types.html
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KelvinNZ

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 02:26:10 am »

agreed, there are priorities i'm sure. Just more of a curiosity rather than a demand.
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cameni

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 03:00:20 am »

Blue marble can only aggregate tree color over relatively large regions, but we still need the original vegetation that can make up that color. For example, there's a desert and savanna. Pure sand and pure grass has a relatively stable color over some continuous regions. However, the aggregated color of the transition between the two is created by patches of grass dispersed in the sand (or vice-versa), with various ratios depending whether they are closer to the desert or to the savanna. The algorithm basically computes the probability of land types to exists in given region, and resolves the final values by picking the best set of basic types. It's not trivial: it should account for seasonal changes (using 12-month color inputs), it must pick the possible land types reflecting their probability of occurrence at that particular place, depending on parameters like temperature and precipitation. For this it needs reliable land type and vegetation definitions.

Output of this mapper are probabilities of land types that can occur. This is fed to the fractal terrain mixer, which uses the probabilities to create a naturally looking (with fractal-transitions) blend of the terrain.

Obviously that's a lot of things to make it work, but I believe the results will be worth it.

Regarding your question, it would probably help to match the dominant vegetation and land type with a few world locations where it covers a large area.
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KelvinNZ

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 04:28:37 am »

Blue marble can only aggregate tree color over relatively large regions, but we still need the original vegetation that can make up that color. For example, there's a desert and savanna. Pure sand and pure grass has a relatively stable color over some continuous regions. However, the aggregated color of the transition between the two is created by patches of grass dispersed in the sand (or vice-versa), with various ratios depending whether they are closer to the desert or to the savanna. The algorithm basically computes the probability of land types to exists in given region, and resolves the final values by picking the best set of basic types. It's not trivial: it should account for seasonal changes (using 12-month color inputs), it must pick the possible land types reflecting their probability of occurrence at that particular place, depending on parameters like temperature and precipitation. For this it needs reliable land type and vegetation definitions.

Output of this mapper are probabilities of land types that can occur. This is fed to the fractal terrain mixer, which uses the probabilities to create a naturally looking (with fractal-transitions) blend of the terrain.

Obviously that's a lot of things to make it work, but I believe the results will be worth it.

Regarding your question, it would probably help to match the dominant vegetation and land type with a few world locations where it covers a large area.

Hey Brano,

Something which you may (or may not) find useful just for reference is the following links:
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3061~430020:World---vegetation-&-ocean-currents?printerFriendly=1

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~225241~5505990:World-Vegetation--Winkel-s--Tripel-?trs=83&qvq=w4s:/what/Vegetation;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort,Pub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=9&printerFriendly=1&sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~203086~3001385:The-World-Illustrating-the-Principa?trs=83&qvq=w4s:/what/Vegetation;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort,Pub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=10&printerFriendly=1&sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No

Another Site with useful references (this one relates more to your last statement):
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=vmjbIXCKamkC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=world+dominant+vegetation+and+land+type&source=bl&ots=XGY_k4O6mf&sig=pyXgIstCShCGOFEpt_D6WWqF91I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=abyTT6ejFoakiAeOmsSSBA&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=world%20dominant%20vegetation%20and%20land%20type&f=false

I have read this one and I didn’t know a lot about what I thought I knew.

One more link to some data but not sure if it is viable to be used:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/Solid_Earth/
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 04:48:06 am by Kelvinr »
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cameni

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 04:47:53 am »

Thanks. The last one is indeed good.
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KelvinNZ

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 04:23:50 pm »

Are you talking about the FTP site?

Browsing through it I found information regarding ocean depth values (among other data). Could these values not be used for Outerra?

Readme
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/Solid_Earth/cdroms/TerrainBase_94/document/

Data
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/Solid_Earth/cdroms/TerrainBase_94/data/
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cameni

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 02:36:14 am »

No, you edited it and that book is no longer the last one :)

The ocean depth values have the same resolution like those used in OT now. What caught my interest is that it says "5-minute DTM was resampled from a 1/40-deg model". Means there's a more detailed model out there, but probably not a global one.
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KelvinNZ

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 03:06:08 am »

Ah I see. Maybe next time i'll just add another post, I didn't really want to fill the thread with too many single posts about the same thing. It would be nice to see bathemetry more accurate than it is but i'm sure that will come at some point.
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cameni

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 03:26:37 am »

It would mainly help to have more detailed data close to the shores, as the transition from 90m data to 1km now happens on the shoreline and creates ugly artifacts.
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KelvinNZ

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 04:32:44 am »

Wouldn't shoreline vector data be able to refine the shoreline cutting out the artifacts? Or, can the data you have, be manipulated in such a way to eliminate them. I might be looking at this the wrong way but I would think that you could make some numbers up so that they align with the desired "look" that you want even though it is not completely accurate. We are talking plausible world, and, you can only work with what you have until something better comes along. You seem to be very talented when it comes to creating something from scratch with algorithms that work for the task you want them to accomplish.
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cameni

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Re: tree colouring
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 05:31:20 am »

Well that's what I plan to do, basically to extrapolate the land into sea to some distance. The shoreline just defines more precise shape.
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