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Author Topic: Arma online  (Read 16442 times)

Grind and Click

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« on: March 20, 2011, 02:07:44 pm »

As has been said, i would love to see this in a new generation of MMO in a persistent state world.

Namely- ArmA: Online. Or an Aliens universe game online.

I really dont know how it would be done, but my ideas for gameplay include parameters where you can use scale and not be trapped on one "small" in comparison island to do a mission on an enemy that may not even expect you.

e.g when you play online in a server for arma 2, the other side obviously knows whos on the server and on what side and that it wont be before long before they find them.

Now take Outerra, give people the ability to chose anywhere (possibly relevant to side or storyline) to make their own base and be given tasker missions, maybe say if they were a mercinary force in this case.

Just the open endedness, and have it include fantastic sounding things, like underground secret bases or even a secret military moonbase, ....man i just cant begin to describe what i mean and yet my idea is so simple in a way.

Scale! Freedom! Content!  

Im tired of being hoarded into a little map and bunched up against enemys with no element of surprise.

I want to take my SAS squad through mountains on our own garnered intel to find an enemy encampment, but it be populated with players too.

I want to rise through the ranks and get involved in high command secret projects that affect the game world.

I want to be sent out in a patrol to search an area and maybe find nothing. But function with my squad and that be the fun.

Have each portion of game from infantry to tanks and flight be at a simulated level, and not too arcadey, i suppose a bit like how ArmA runs now but more concentration on the flying being more simy. but then take games like Orbiter 2010 for space. (IE i support the thread that questions multilevel simulating with different companies working on each bit)

Like several games overlapping eachother....is that even possible? WW2OL does it on a semi-basic level so i guess not?

Thats in respect to my Arma: Online idea. As for the Aliens universe online thing, im not sure how much- say like that game "Infinity" "Outerra" is in reference to space travel.

But id want my own quarters on a troop transport ship and head out on missions to other planets and inspect downed transmitters.

Are people seeing what im getting at? Am i not considering the complicated and unpractical side of things enough as to how this type of gameplay would work?
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cameni

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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 02:43:29 pm »

I can totally imagine that, and yes it could be a great fun.

One of the potential problems is the scale of the planet - even if there were several hundred teams, finding an enemy encampment on your own would be quite hard. It would need some balancing - the ability to cloak your own base versus the difficulty of finding the other one by some traces.
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2011, 07:21:02 am »

True.

Perhaps each's side could be compartmentalised and you could specialise.

Forinstance the "Inteligence" side could share what they know and it could get passed down to a squad to recon or attack force etc.

Inteligence could be anything from placement of spy sattelites, the launching of them and the upkeep of them (making use of the space sim part) to spying and any number of inteligence orientated things. (just trying to show it doesnt need to be a boring specialisation even though it isnt hands on combat all the time)

(The placement of the enemy base could also be attributed to something that would attract a base to be there, maybe a bit like command and conquer where bases are attracted to being near Tiberium so they can farm it. But for ArmA: Online just another medium to attract a base so areas of suspicion can be reconed or whatever and scale doesnt have to matter so much.)

Depending on how big the enemy base is would have to be taken into account whether just a recon squad goes to watch/infiltrate clandestinely or a full on attack brigade/platoon is mustered. So if its a sizeable base then the movement of the attacking sides forces (if attack brigade/platoon would surely have to match or be greater than that of the enemy base) might be picked up on by the enemys inteligence.

So in all, compartmenting each area of the military then balancing it against the enemies could be a starting point for an easier way to balance? Then of course you have differances of equipment quality and tech, like what would Russia Vs the US look like in a balanced game world.

Sorry, is this getting more into actual mechanics for a game rather than actually speaking about the engine?
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cameni

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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 09:16:13 am »

I was thinking about being able to pick a noisy radio signal from machines and devices used at the base. A kind of a passive radar. It would provide a hint as to in what direction something lies, with some uncertainty.

But what about the distances and realistic movement speed? It will have to span a larger time period as well, what with the attacks during the time the player is logged off?

Quote
Sorry, is this getting more into actual mechanics for a game rather than actually speaking about the engine?

Yes but then this thread is about discussing ideas, so it's not forbidden :)
We can split it into a separate topic though.
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 02:46:22 pm »

Quote from: cameni
I was thinking about being able to pick a noisy radio signal from machines and devices used at the base. A kind of a passive radar. It would provide a hint as to in what direction something lies, with some uncertainty.

Thats even better i think, perhaps a certain piece of radio equipment that you would have to learn how to use properly and perhaps requires some talent, and also be on high enough terrain to use depending on how far and in what terrain the base is located.

Quote
But what about the distances and realistic movement speed? It will have to span a larger time period as well, what with the attacks during the time the player is logged off?

Depending on the nature of the base (It could be deep in its own territory and able to stay indefinitely) The base would be there for the duration of its need eithre way, giving say (for example) if it was an outpost base near a border then the nature of it is covert, so say it only needs to be there a week for the enemy to find it in real time before its packed up and ordered to relocate, "Shut it down" Jason Bourne style.

Or if the player wants to risk having his base there longer its up to him depending on the mission, but obviously people wont play for a week at a time, more like hours. But this is where the scale comes in handy, and so does the radio idea. If the base has to shut down it will be a silent base, and it can be "camo netted" or equivelant quickly perhaps etc. Maybe a sattelite heat scan of the area can be requested and check if anyone is honing in on the base, but you only get one scan per day etc.

This is of course if there were sides and factioned play, open ended play like "heres the gear, there is a substance of interest, like gold or whatever being mined, you go mine it to get more gear, but watch out! *kicked out the door into the world*" Then surround it with some story to fit. I can see that kind of play having everything from self made armys to roaming solitary mercinaries?

The traveling speed should be fine, if its far, then get a flight by someone whos flying say a C130 somewhere or similar vehicle and the pilot (much like flight sim people like to do) is happy to just fly the flight but it have actual affect on the game world, his passengers/cargo isnt imaginary now, but if you needed to change country then it shouldnt be too often as wherever you go initialy will be your point of interest not the traveling itself.  

I also just had a thought that a form of High command, like WW2OL could be organised, and squads(clans) are given locations to scout/attack/mine etc etc etc and that be the designated mission type, once they report back that they did what they did and what they found they can be rewarded money for more gear. Or if its a mineing outfit maybe it can also be comission based.
   
Quote
Sorry, is this getting more into actual mechanics for a game rather than actually speaking about the engine?

Quote
Yes but then this thread is about discussing ideas, so it's not forbidden :)
We can split it into a separate topic though.

Coolcool.
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ZeosPantera

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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 02:57:09 pm »

Even if a game was stated and right off the bat you were told exact lat lon cords for the enemy position. Getting a battle response organized, mobilized and executed would keep someone busy for at least a real life week or longer dependent on the actual distance.
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 03:19:36 pm »

Thats when stuff gets a bit GAMEY, like WW2OL you can move supplies and things through the ether so certain points.

Thats supposing its not just a recon mission and its an SF squad being sent of 6 or so guys.
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SpaceFlight

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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 03:22:36 pm »

Quote from: Grind and Click

The traveling speed should be fine, if its far, then get a flight by someone whos flying say a C130 somewhere or similar vehicle and the pilot (much like flight sim people like to do) is happy to just fly the flight but it have actual affect on the game world, his passengers/cargo isnt imaginary now, but if you needed to change country then it shouldnt be too often as wherever you go initialy will be your point of interest not the traveling itself.  

I think traveling to wherever you want would be an essential possibility to have. If you want to change the country, hire a scramjet pilot who flies you there. But perhaps you cant take all your stuff with you this way, like the base for instance.
Or only light troops can travel this way.



Quote
I also just had a thought that a form of High command, like WW2OL could be organised, and squads(clans) are given locations to scout/attack/mine etc etc etc and that be the designated mission type, once they report back that they did what they did and what they found they can be rewarded money for more gear. Or if its a mineing outfit maybe it can also be comission based.

High command would be great. The people in the high command could be the ones who go through all the intel from the satelites and observation teams on the ground, formulating assault plans and such for the combat units. Never played WW2OL but I was thinking of the commander in Battlefield 2, but then much more complex.

Quote from: ZeosPantera
Even if a game was stated and right off the bat you were told exact lat lon cords for the enemy position. Getting a battle response organized, mobilized and executed would keep someone busy for at least a real life week or longer dependent on the actual distance.

I was thinking of a slider,
where one can adjust the complexity of the steps necessary to initiate battles, prior to a game.
For those who dont have a week. :)
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C. Shawn Smith

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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2011, 03:34:58 pm »

Quote
For those who dont have a week.

Solved by employing NPC guards and troops, which could be updated (improved).  Of course, you'd have to pay them somehow, to keep them loyal and to keep them from saying, "I'm not gonna get paid, so I QUIT!"

And have instant email alerts for when you're offline: "Commander, we're receiving intelligence reports that an unknown force is within 24 hour strike distance from the base.  Please advise."
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2011, 05:22:49 pm »

Quote from: Grind and Click
Thats when stuff gets a bit GAMEY, like WW2OL you can move supplies and things through the ether so certain points.

Thats supposing its not just a recon mission and its an SF squad being sent of 6 or so guys.

To clarify,

I think if a big main attack was going to happen then forces over a certain amount can be moved quickly and in a oner, like this but otherwise its a sim so its part of the play. Just try and keep points of interest as means to populate?

Quote
Solved by employing NPC guards and troops, which could be updated (improved).  Of course, you'd have to pay them somehow, to keep them loyal and to keep them from saying, "I'm not gonna get paid, so I QUIT!"

And have instant email alerts for when you're offline: "Commander, we're receiving intelligence reports that an unknown force is within 24 hour strike distance from the base.  Please advise."

Yeah some basic AI defense would be good and requesting a sat scan from a web browser and getting a report emailed to you could allow you to keep tabs.

Quote
I think traveling to wherever you want would be an essential possibility to have. If you want to change the country, hire a scramjet pilot who flies you there. But perhaps you cant take all your stuff with you this way, like the base for instance.
Or only light troops can travel this way.

I agree, maybe near future would allow for a scram jet travel option too.

If we keep areas of focus, i think that could keep things as ive said more concentrated too.

Repeating myself now, cameni, hope im inspiring something and not digging myself out a problematic idea.
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cameni

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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 07:17:32 am »

Quote from: Grind and Click
Repeating myself now, cameni, hope im inspiring something and not digging myself out a problematic idea.

It usually comes together, doesn't it? :)

Quote
Quote from: cshawnsmith
And have instant email alerts for when you're offline: "Commander, we're receiving intelligence reports that an unknown force is within 24 hour strike distance from the base.  Please advise."

Yeah some basic AI defense would be good and requesting a sat scan from a web browser and getting a report emailed to you could allow you to keep tabs.

Now this reminds me of the Travian browser game, where you are getting tips about forthcoming attack, though you don't know who is attacking.
 We had a similar idea for a multiuser game that would not require heavy server networking infrastructure, relying on AI for attack and AI or human control for defense. It would be like sending an attack force to designated coordinates and continuing to manage your base and surrounding lands. Once the units arrive to their destination, player could be able to establish a comm link and control his vehicles or soldiers directly.

One interesting aspect of it (which I haven't thought through yet much) would be if it was implemented using the defender's computer as a temporary server for the action. The attackers (or friendly forces) would be effectively connecting to his machine and the ability to connect would be conditioned by the player's presence, otherwise AI will take care of things.
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 09:22:59 am »

Ha yeah, i guess it does.

A point id like to try and convey in my idea is the mystery of your being in the game, as in your suddenly stood there with the means to make a base and perhaps mine a substance of some sort for money. From wandering loan backpacking mercinary, to someone whos made a clan of guys 100 or so large running their own large scale base complete with airfield.

Abilities to eventually build space vehicles (for the Orbiter 2010 style gameplay) to launch your own sattelites and maybe even eventually moonbase?

The rest is just content from the developer and the gameplay and society of the world invented by the player as it happens, or at least...try that in beta and the developer curve the flow of play as they see fit? Give the player the tools and see what game seems to arise from the players.


TOO open ended? Greifers galore? But then they would have to find you and you have your own stealth measures, so they are entitled to try and find you for the sole purpose of attack because they would have had to earn it, and you have defenses you have seen fit to be worth the value of the base.

To help those starting out in an already developed world, maybe like "EvE: Online" there are safe zones, or low and high sec as its called?

This is the sort of storyless side of things, the factioned side vs side or Russia vs USA could need more organisation, but thats what the high command with the use of AI would be for.

Quote
One interesting aspect of it (which I haven't thought through yet much) would be if it was implemented using the defender's computer as a temporary server for the action. The attackers (or friendly forces) would be effectively connecting to his machine and the ability to connect would be conditioned by the player's presence, otherwise AI will take care of things.

Thats a really good angle actually, as long as when you moved maybe a large force into his area his computer didnt stutter as if it just loaded 40 battle tanks onto his server lol, or he wouldnt be able to easily hack his own server as it were and detect you other ways.
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Grind and Click

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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 01:12:26 pm »

The only thing is ive actually seen arma decrease the size of the island in arma 2 from one which means they probably wont be going in this direction.
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ZeosPantera

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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2011, 02:45:40 pm »

Quote from: Grind and Click
The only thing is ive actually seen arma decrease the size of the island in arma 2 from one which means they probably wont be going in this direction.

I don't believe that was done as a "plan" they just picked a real piece of land and it happened to be smaller than the original arma1 island. I liked the island better.

Maybe cameni can show us the chenarus area in outerra. Im sure the cords are somewhere.
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cameni

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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 03:00:13 pm »

AFAIK both BIS (Arma) and RealTime Immersive (a Crytek studio for serious games) work on enlarging the size of terrains they can support, and it's likely that this tech will be later back-ported to their game oriented engines.
Nothing like a whole planet though.
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