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Author Topic: Welcome to the 'Ideas' forum  (Read 203595 times)

ZeosPantera

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« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2010, 10:11:29 pm »

Quote from: Blackhawk998
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?

Your Wrong.. Its all made up of Dreams and Aspirations.. or Sweat and Tears more likely
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Jagerbomber

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« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2010, 12:47:28 am »

Quote from: ZeosPantera
Quote from: Blackhawk998
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the most basic level isn't it all a bunch of 0's and 1's?

Your Wrong.. Its all made up of Dream and Aspirations.. or Sweat and Tears more likely

Angry pig tears. :( :P
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"Perhaps this speaks to some larger trend within society today...  A prevailing desire on the part of indie developers to recreate the entire world into one where you can charge more than $15 for your game design degree coursework." - Yahtzee ;) :P

OGREMAN

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« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2010, 07:53:42 am »

Hi, just have to ask a question about "scale" in relation to mapping references and another question about the Outerra approach to the physics of the atmosphere.

Q1. will the generated world have a global mapping reference system built in and if yes, what level of accuracy would you hope to achieve. I understand that the engine renders the terrain to a detail level of less than half a metre but think that having an accurate global mapping sytem accompanying the engine would be an essential tool. The reason for this enquiry is that I have experience in mission building for a combat flight simulator where one of the biggest irritations is trying to place objects into the VR world with accuracy... often the mapping tool (used for placement of objects) bears only a passing resemblance to the terrain that is generated resulting in many hours of extrat time double checking that an object placement ends up where it should be.

Q2. My particular interest in this world generator is from the point of view of Flight Simming in general but combat flight in particular.... so as an avid virtual pilot I am well aware of the crucial interaction between the atmosphere and any given aircraft. Indeed some aircraft are totally dependant on the dynamics of the atmosphere for them to do their thing (gliders). Whereas powered aircraft while effected by the dynamics of air movement are much more concerned with other aspects of its behaviour ie weather extremes visability and cloud structures. This leads me to be very curious about how the outerra engine will deal with the creation of planetry weather and just as importantly the micro activity of clouds.
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`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:All mimsy were the borogoves,
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cameni

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« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2010, 10:43:23 am »

Quote from: OGREMAN
Q1. will the generated world have a global mapping reference system built in and if yes, what level of accuracy would you hope to achieve. I understand that the engine renders the terrain to a detail level of less than half a metre but think that having an accurate global mapping sytem accompanying the engine would be an essential tool. The reason for this enquiry is that I have experience in mission building for a combat flight simulator where one of the biggest irritations is trying to place objects into the VR world with accuracy... often the mapping tool (used for placement of objects) bears only a passing resemblance to the terrain that is generated resulting in many hours of extrat time double checking that an object placement ends up where it should be.
Um, I don't quite understand what's the problem with the mapping tool there. Are you saying that the final result doesn't contain the objects/modification at the precise place where it was put to by the mapping tool? Or that it is impossible to place it precisely in the first place? Can you elaborate?

The problem has two sides. First, objects can be positioned using different coordinate systems, but I guess the basic ones would be the lat-lon(+alt), and ECEF. These conversions are precise, although there still may be some issues when we go down to sub-meter resolutions.

Another side is mapping of the terrain data. This depends on the precision of the data itself, but there's also a small error caused by remapping the data to our internal coordinate system, that can be generally minimized by supersampling, although that in turn increases the size of dataset.
These two facets are connected though: if there's an error/offset in how the terrain data are mapped, you might not want to position the objects at their measured positions, but you may want to shift it to match the terrain features. I mean, when a cliff is moved few meters inwards, you should not place a road stubbornly at the exact place where it is in real life. But there shouldn't be many such cases.

Quote
My particular interest in this world generator is from the point of view of Flight Simming in general but combat flight in particular.... so as an avid virtual pilot I am well aware of the crucial interaction between the atmosphere and any given aircraft. Indeed some aircraft are totally dependant on the dynamics of the atmosphere for them to do their thing (gliders). Whereas powered aircraft while effected by the dynamics of air movement are much more concerned with other aspects of its behaviour ie weather extremes visability and cloud structures. This leads me to be very curious about how the outerra engine will deal with the creation of planetry weather and just as importantly the micro activity of clouds.
Atmospheric effects are outside of the graphic engine, and are expected to be covered by an addon. However, there should be a basic implementation included to the engine, that uses a mathematical model and produces external forces for FDM. AFAIK JSBSim has got a support for simulating the turbulence, so instead of the forces causing the turbulence one could provide just some value (I guess).
It is expected that any addon would need to interact with the engine that will provide the terrain data. What model will be used for the default implementation isn't known yet, but there was some discussion about it here
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OGREMAN

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« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2010, 08:10:02 am »

Hi Cameni,
thanks for the response to my questions, the atmospherics enquiry is well summed up by the remarks made by Deltasim. I hope that Outerra's innovative engine and superb graphics are not let down by a poor "weather plugin"... as I have previously said, the mid ground approach by other flight sim devs has been to generate a pretty poor faximily of important weather activity.

The mapping question I thought was a simple one, will the Outerra engine's terrain generator have an accompanying (inbuilt) spacial referencing tool that will allow 3rd party objects/vehicles/civilisation to be placed with accuracy and just how accurate would you expect such a tool to be?

My concern is that if developers have to re-map the Outerra generated terrain from scratch, then the process will cause the kind of errors that drive users of their mapping tools crazy. Whatever its reference "X,Y,Z  or Alt, LAT & LONG or Ordanance survey grid... if the referencing system is a 2nd 3rd 4th removed re-calculation then errors are created. I hope this clears up any confusion.
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`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.
\"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun;  The frumious Bandersnatch!\"

cameni

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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2010, 08:29:53 am »

Well at the moment there's a possibility to enter a Lat/Lon/Alt and heading and pitch values into the position window, to move the camera to that precise spot. This should be a universal option in all other tools that deal with positioning, so one could place pivot points for object and road placement via this method.
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OGREMAN

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« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2010, 04:47:15 pm »

Many thanks Cameni... I LOVE this Terrain Generator... cant wait for it to be driving in a Combat flight sim... wonderful
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`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.
\"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun;  The frumious Bandersnatch!\"

Repvez

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« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2010, 02:48:30 pm »

could be the next video to show what a fighter flight  in outerra? we've seen a truck, slow airplane, helicopter. But it would be nice to see a highly detailed model of fighter aircraft is flying.

continued success in the development
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cameni

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« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2010, 01:55:14 pm »

It's possible there will be a fighter aircraft too, once we get our hands on a good model and there is a corresponding flight dynamics model in JSBSim for it as well. Probably not in the next video though.
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Chrischn

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« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2011, 09:58:34 am »

Hey guys im new here and I am astonished by this incredible piece of technology!!!

Too bad that it will take several years until we can see a full budget game utilizing this beautiful engine :(

Anyway to contribute to the original idea of this thread I sat down and thought what key aspects had to be in a promotion game to show most of Outerra´s features. Well first thing to consider is that you have to be somewhat close to the ground to get the right feeling and also be able to notice the microdetails like trees and groundtextures. Therefor steering vehicles from a first person view is a good call. The second thing I thought about was that you want to see different places of that world and preferably in a short period of time, which means you have to be able to move fast.
I guess there is no doubt that aircrafts would suit this role the best.
It is kind of a coincidence but I know a game where you have these exact same characteristics (it does in fact already look pretty similar to Outerra but by far not as detailed).

I am talking about LockOn (Flaming Cliffs 2).

Most of you people know it for sure, as I noticed that there are many Milsim-fans around here. For those who don´t: it is an Aircraft Combat Sim, which simulates Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground combat with modern fighterjets.
If you compare both engines you will see that they have much in common like generic buildings, trees, roads and a huge viewdistance plus a correct presentation of real world geometrical-data (in case of LockOn it is Georgia in the middle eastern).
Of course it shouldnt be a dull copy of this game but a sort of playable tech demo. Therefor I´d suggest concentrating on one single aircraft as too many wouldnt contribute to the goal to present the engine very much. A Sukhoi 25 close air support fighter would be perfect as these planes fly mostly in low/medium altitudes and also not with supersonic velocity (more time to watch the beautiful environment). This aircraft also doesnt rely on fancy electronics (it doesnt even have an autopilot for that matter) and would let the player feel the full fledged air simulation physics. There wouldnt be a need for long research either, as this plane is really pretty straight forward (even in terms of weapon systems).
Physics for ground vehicles would come in pretty handy to simulate ground traffic on airfields but also for hostile convoys driving along the generated roads and of course deep in the woods.
In order to show different areas of our beloved planet you can easily set up a simple missions in different places.

Well to come to an end I just want to say that if you look closely at LockOn you can see that it doesnt need sophisticated AI or Crysis visuals/effects to be entertaining and challenging.
I guess this would be a very good choice to demonstrate the full power of Outerra and yet be a minimun of work as there is not much stuff to model/research/script.

Hope this was in any way helpful or inspiring and I am eager to see Outerra live in action! (Even as a cow simulator playing in Switzerland if it has to be! :) )
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razgriz 53992

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« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2011, 10:13:11 am »

There are so many options for this game. While it will take a while, a military sim has been discussed I believe and could well be an option for the game.

Of course there will also be a demo as soon as possible, with all the vehicles currently implemented and all that jazz.
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ZeosPantera

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« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2011, 12:15:48 pm »

Quote from: Chrischn
Cow simulator playing in Switzerland

I can't wait.
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Bartolomeus

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« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2011, 03:07:59 pm »

Hello

I'm new here and Iam very impressed by the Outerra Engine.

I think the Engine would be a perfect platform for a Martime Simulation like VStep's ShipSimulator (civil or military Sim). But i think the Outerra Engine has a greater potential.

Major benefits of the Outerra Engine would be:

- the entire world without loadingscreen phases (like in Microsoft's Flight Simulator)
- real scaled Earth
- the terrain looks really amazing
- to have a underwater environment (for submarines)
- and to have the opportunity to drive cars in the harbor

Looking forward to the progress of this wonderful engine!

Best Regards
Marko

cameni

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« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2011, 03:17:44 pm »

Hi Marko, welcome here.

Finally we've got a maritime sim guy aboard ;)
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Flubadoo

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« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2011, 07:17:10 am »

The graphics really look good, especially considering the size of Earth.

One suggestion I would make is to make grass slightly more... varied?

For example, if you look at this picture: http://www.outerra.com/shots/w-ventoux4.jpg
You only have dark green and light green, which I think could look better if there was variation.

In ArmA 2, looking at things from pretty far away look really nice, and I don't expect Outerra to look as nice (so my hardware isn't consumed in a raging bonfire), but I think more variation like in ArmA 2 would help a ton in the visual quality.

I took two ArmA 2 screenshots in 1080p at high settings:
http://s797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/flubadoofunbrain/?action=view¤t=arma22011-02-1115-06-54-95.jpg
http://s797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/flubadoofunbrain/?action=view¤t=arma22011-02-1115-06-42-41.jpg
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